Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

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Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

Post by spot »

I note that Simon Mann and Nick du Toit have both been "released on humanitarian grounds" from their sentences in Equatorial Guinea, under a pardon from the country's president whom they had both plotted to overthrow in a mercenary coup.

Presumably Simon Mann will head back to the UK rather than, say, South Africa. One wonders how much cash he'll manage to accumulate from greedy newspapers and exploitative ghost-written accounts of his behaviour. That'll be yet another killing for him. I doubt whether the hyenas of Fleet Street will hold back and refuse to buy.

DECREE No. 116/2.009. dated 2 November, which gives full pardon on humanitarian grounds the condemned SIMON FRANCIS MANN.



Having regard to the provisions of Article 39. Clause k of the Basic Law of the State which gives the President of the Republic the power to exercise the right of pardon by providing access to free convicted before the expiration of the period determined by the appropriate sentence. Given his condition and the need for SIMON FRANCIS MANN, British national convicted in Cause Number 102/2.008 undergo medical treatment regularly and with his family. Whereas both the attitude observed during the process of investigating the facts, for the observed behavior during the trial and his stay in the prison, the convicted SIMON FRANCIS MANN has demonstrated sufficient and credible repentance and willingness to social reintegration.



By virtue of the proposal of the Ministry of Justice, Culture and Prisons, in exercise of the powers conferred on me invoked legal body, is granted full pardon on humanitarian grounds, to Simon Francis Mann, was sentenced to 34 years, 6 months and 3 days Detention Minor, in Cause Number 102/2.008, followed by the crime of homicide against the head of state, crimes against the form of government and crimes that endanger the peace and independence of the State, all in keeping with terrorist and mercenary action March 2004. After his release, the offender is obliged to leave the country in the non-extendible period of 24 hours are strictly prohibited from returning to the Republic of Equatorial Guinea.

This Decree shall enter into force upon its publication by the national news media. This is provided by this Act given in Bata, 2nd November, 2009.

FOR A BETTER GUINEA

Obiang Nguema MBASOGO

PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC
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Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

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A clipping to compare with subsequent comments:Before leaving for the UK, Mann said: "I am very anxious that Calil, Thatcher and one or two of the others should face justice."

Sources in Scotland Yard's Counter Terrorism Command have confirmed to BBC News that officers want to talk to Mann. A Metropolitan Police spokesman said: "We can confirm we are investigating whether any offences may have been committed in this country."

BBC NEWS | Africa | Pardoned Briton regrets coup plot

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Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

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K.Snyder;1050282 wrote: Why did Patty Hearst brandish a loaded assault weapon, among other things, and completely have the ability to use it effectively in respect to her escape and choose not to?...

And I'm sorry I hadn't seen any facts that "Patty Hearst had been physically and sexually abused".

Patty Hearst - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Bailey...argued" her attorney. Was the only line of defense having been taken after Patty Hearst had blatantly displayed her interest to stay with those people by "...wielding an M1 Carbine while robbing the Sunset District branch of the Hibernia Bank at 1450 Noriega Street in San Francisco." and making no attempt what-so-ever to escape. Patty Hearst - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As I've said the "brainwashing" clause is left to be sacrificial because those that are brainwashed are too ignorant to be trusted in having the "accessibility to anything that can harm other living life forms".


Patty Hearst wanted money? :thinking: :yh_think

I cannot for the life of me see how anyone wishing to oust Teodoro Obiang Nguema being one of a crime! I still do not retract my disgust for mercenaries and Patty Hearst was just that!
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Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

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K.Snyder;1259187 wrote: Patty Hearst wanted money? :thinking: :yh_think

I cannot for the life of me see how anyone wishing to oust Teodoro Obiang Nguema being one of a crime! I still do not retract my disgust for mercenaries and Patty Hearst was just that!


Snyder, you're the one who wrote "If I were to ever feel the need to rob a bank and I'm driving I'll just tell the police I was held hostage and be let go" earlier in the thread. Do try to make your mind up.

Do you really think this gang could have "ousted" President Mbasogo without killing anyone? They intended to kill. You don't regard that as a crime?
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Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

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spot;1259193 wrote: Snyder, you're the one who wrote "If I were to ever feel the need to rob a bank and I'm driving I'll just tell the police I was held hostage and be let go" earlier in the thread. Do try to make your mind up. I could do quite alot more to survive than ever feeling, let alone having, the need to rob a bank. The point being logic. What's left is the morality, or lack thereof, behind the government in question that makes the rules which is where we're at now.

spot;1259193 wrote:

Do you really think this gang could have "ousted" President Mbasogo without killing anyone? They intended to kill. You don't regard that as a crime?


Personally speaking I cannot say I know enough of what this "gang" was capable of. What I do know is that Teodoro Obiang Nguema has been hailed by Most domestic and international observers consider his regime to be one of the most corrupt, ethnocentric, oppressive and undemocratic states in the world. Equatorial Guinea is now essentially a single-party state, dominated by Obiang's Democratic Party of Equatorial Guinea (PDGE). In 2008 American journalist Peter Maass called Obiang Africa's worst dictator, worse than Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe. The constitution grants Obiang wide powers, including the power to rule by decree.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teodoro_Ob ... ma_Mbasogo Nonetheless, Obiang has far less power than Macías, and for the most part his rule has been considerably milder. Notably, there have been none of the atrocities that characterized the Macías era. doesn't mean I agree with the fact people have chosen to kill for money regardless of the side they choose happening to be the more moral. It's altogether immoral the start having not cared for the end.
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Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

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K.Snyder;1259197 wrote: Personally speaking I cannot say I know enough of what this "gang" was capable of.


"Their arms requisition included 20 machine guns, 61 AK-47 assault rifles, 150 hand grenades, 10 rocket-propelled grenade launchers (and 100 RPG shells), and 75,000 rounds of ammunition". The idea that they weren't preparing to kill anyone while "ousting" is preposterous.
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Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

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spot;1259222 wrote: "Their arms requisition included 20 machine guns, 61 AK-47 assault rifles, 150 hand grenades, 10 rocket-propelled grenade launchers (and 100 RPG shells), and 75,000 rounds of ammunition". The idea that they weren't preparing to kill anyone while "ousting" is preposterous.


I can't not justify the killing of a human being that negates the truth of a worthy life.

We need to distinguish whom they were out to kill. If they were out to kill one willing to kill them for preserving the life of those divinely worthy I'd personally put a bullet in the persons' skull myself for ever having impeded the outcome of what I could only define then as religious(My personal belief in preserving the lives of those whom are unquestionably moral - "You're" either moral or "you're" not.)

Anyone that takes up arms to kill anyone without knowing full well whom they're killing deserves to die regardless of the side to whom they fight for
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Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

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It all depends on whether you can reliably decide who's a good guy and who isn't, according to the rules you're giving. It sounds a bit partisan. Why's a bodyguard a bad guy. for example? Why's a conscript soldier a bad guy? I'd say they were just people in the wrong place at the wrong time. The killers are the ones choosing to kill, the soldiers on the perimeter have no choice in the matter at all. The killers lack any form of warrant for their actions, all they have is superior firepower and surprise.
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Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

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spot;1259229 wrote: It all depends on whether you can reliably decide who's a good guy and who isn't, according to the rules you're giving. It sounds a bit partisan. Why's a bodyguard a bad guy. for example? Why's a conscript soldier a bad guy? I'd say they were just people in the wrong place at the wrong time. The killers are the ones choosing to kill, the soldiers on the perimeter have no choice in the matter at all. The killers lack any form of warrant for their actions, all they have is superior firepower and surprise.


It's every "mans" obligation to know who to kill and who not to.

A bodyguard only defines his/her self as a mercenary upon the point he/she is "obliged" to make the decision to preserve the life they're protecting. If you're a bodyguard for one that is morally in the wrong then the bodyguard becomes morally unjustified dependent on the choice they make given the situation. If they have this look on their face ":yh_silly" then chances are they will make an immoral decision.

Intelligence is defined as moral certainty.

No divinely moral human being would ever not know who to kill as defined by such.

I define a soldier as one having equipped themselves with any given object capable of killing any other living life form. I'm a soldier when I hunt deer with me crossbow. The fantastic part of that is is that the deer is forced to combat me with a set of antlers! The deer is a soldier because it grew antlers. The only bit of unfamiliarity within this entire conjecture is that I eat the soldiers I kill!

Immorality is not the event of killing an innocent human being(One could argue deer but that's another topic.) it's the event of one making the decision they wish to kill an innocent human being. My argument is is that taking up arms to willingly kill another human being while not knowing for sure whether or not those they wish to kill are moral then they define themselves to the outside world they are immoral.
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Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

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K.Snyder;1259241 wrote: My argument is is that taking up arms to willingly kill another human being while not knowing for sure whether or not those they wish to kill are moral then they define themselves to the outside world they are immoral.


I don't think perimeter soldiers actually have a choice, being conscripts. They're not choosing to kill, they're standing guard and being surprised and killed before they can react. The killers are the ones who decide to mount the coup, not the defenders.
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Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

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spot;1259244 wrote: I don't think perimeter soldiers actually have a choice, being conscripts. They're not choosing to kill, they're standing guard and being surprised and killed before they can react. The killers are the ones who decide to mount the coup, not the defenders.


Depends on what they are guarding along with why one wishes to relinquish their guard.

Every man is responsible for their actions. If a person robbing a bank was not threatening to kill anyone but demanded money I would not be justified in killing the robber. The robber could be starving and robbing the bank in his/her last ditch effort to remain alive. I'd be immoral to not allow this person to take what they need below the line of affordability. When people do not give the person money they're able to afford they become immoral. If the robber burst into the bank wielding an assault rifle threatening to blow everyones' "stinking" head off then that robber would be morally justified if and only if everyone the robber was attempting to kill were psycho serial murderers that ate the people they killed(One could argue deer but another topic.) on top of the fact that if the guard killed the robber he/she'd be morally unjust because they acted on the assumptions those they were protecting were either moral or because they recieved money to protect the immoral. What ties everything together is ones intelligence is defined by moral certainty. Anyone that brandishes a weapon on the intent to kill to preserve a life is defined as as moral or immoral as those they serve.

I'd never fight for America if I hadn't known why. Picking up a weapon to kill by no other reason other than command is no different than cold blooded murder simply because of a mere possibility.

No one within the realms of rational forethought would throw a knife in the air without making sure they wouldn't harm a child. If "you" do, "you" deserve to die
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Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

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What a startling news item...In April 2007, Mann asked an extradition hearing in Zimbabwe: “Would it have been possible to overthrow a whole government with 69 men?” He added: “Sometimes I actually feel flattered that people think that I am so fantastically dangerous that I could do that . . . it’s suicidal . . . ludicrous . . . there wasn’t a plot.” Mann was nevertheless extradited to Equatorial Guinea in 2008 and then convicted of organising just such a plot.

Despite fears for his safety, Mann said on his release after serving only one year in jail that he had been treated “like a guest, not a prisoner”. He said the country’s president had “collaborated brilliantly”. Olo Obono who was the Equatorial Guinea Attorney General and led the case against Mann declined to discuss in what capacity the mercenary had been retained, saying only that he was “free to come and go as he pleased”.

Mann back to 'advise' Guinea leader

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Extradition to Equatorial Guinea

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This seems the only thread into which I can drop this tale, one which isn't likely to get much publicity. It's a corker.

Apart from demanding to know why the safety and security of Zuma and Motlanthe had been compromised and the country has been embarrassed, the Pretoria News has learnt that Sisulu is now also seeking answers as to how convicted mercenary Neil Steyl was allowed to fly Zuma to the US.

A photograph in the possession of the Pretoria News shows Steyl, who was convicted and imprisoned in Zimbabwe for his role in the foiled Equatorial Guinea coup, standing next to Zuma. It is believed the picture, which shows Steyl in an SAAF uniform, was taken soon after Zuma returned to South Africa from the UN meeting two months ago.

Steyl was convicted for his role in the foiled coup, which was aimed at overthrowing Equatorial Guinea President Teodoro Obiang Nguema and replacing him with exiled opposition leader Severo Moto. Steyl was to fly 70 mercenaries, led by convicted British mercenary Simon Mann, on a Boeing 727 with weapons from Zimbabwe to Equatorial Guinea.

It is understood that the aircraft Zuma was flown in to the US was a Boeing 727 and that the SAAF does not have any pilots qualified to fly those planes.

Sisulu’s spokesman, Ndivhuwo Mabaya, confirmed last night that the issue of the mercenaries had been taken up with Gagiano. “When Sisulu became aware of the allegations she instructed Gagiano to immediately investigate it as a matter of urgency. At this stage we cannot confirm or deny it because it is still under investigation. If it is true we need to know how someone like this can be allowed to fly the president and whether there were any security lapses. We have been told one of the reasons is that the SAAF doesn’t have the pilots to fly this type of plane. It is for this precise reason that we believe it is in the defence force’s best interest to have planes which the SAAF has pilots to fly,” he said.

Zuma mercenary pilot probed - The Zuma Era | IOL News | IOL.co.za

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