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the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:09 am
by Carl44
how much faith do you have in it ???





i really don't know much about it ,how accurate is this ,its supposed to be out of the bible but just the bad bits ,, any of the god squad out there care to tell me how accurate the quotes are :confused:





Welcome to the EvilBible.com Web Site


This web site is designed to spread the vicious truth about the Bible. For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called “God of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children. I have included references to the Biblical passages, so grab your Bible and follow along. You can also follow along with on-line Bibles such as BibleStudyTools.net or SkepticsAnnotatedBible.com.



It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said “Thou shall not kill. For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6). In Judges 21, He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.



The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).



This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person. Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK. If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself.



Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven: "For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:12 ASV) I don't know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.



The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice.



And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear: "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB) There are many more quotes on this topic at my "Do Not Ignore the Old Testament" web page.



I know that most Christians believe that God is a good and loving god, and wants people to do good things. I believe that most people want to do good things and behave morally. I also believe that many Christians haven’t really read the Bible, or just read certain passages in church. This is understandable, as the Bible is hard to read due to its archaic language and obscure references. Also many priests and preachers don’t like to read certain passages in the Bible because they present a message of hate not love.



If you follow the links on the left side of this page you will learn about all the nasty things in the Bible that are usually not talked about by priests and preachers. You can also discuss things related to this web site or religion and atheism in general at the EvilBible.com Discussion Forum.

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:12 am
by Carl44
Biblical/Pentateuch Intolerance:
I see so many religionists rant and rave about how Atheists are “not tolerant of believers and have no respect for their faith. To non believers this claim is absurd. For intolerance of various religions is the foundation of Judaism, Christianity, Muslim and many other orthodox communities. Matter of fact, the Bible and Pentateuch commands religious intolerance in MANY verses, even to the point of KILLING people for their beliefs. Here then, are a few choice verses that show just how intolerant these religionists are of other believers and nonbelievers. We shall start with the two verses that helped to inflict one of the biggest mass murders in history, the Inquisition.

Woman with “familiar spirits must be stoned to death. Leviticus 20:27

“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Exodus 22:18



Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5



Ignorance is bliss. Christians should not practice free inquiry nor socialize with non Christians:

Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10

Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17

Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8



Judge other religions for not following Christ:

Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22

Christians are “of God; everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19

The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ 2 John 1:7

Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart. Hebrews 3:12

False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan. Revelations 2:9, 3:9



Here are my two personal favorites:

Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10

A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:26 am
by Carl44
eeeek how about this :(:(









Why I Am Not A Christian:
Introduction:

This essay was inspired by the consistent assumption of Christians that if I believed the Bible were true, I would become a Christian. There are several reasons for my atheism, the leading of which is the idea of a higher power is not probable in light of current scientific data. The second of which is I do not find the state of the world in accordance with an idea of a loving and merciful higher power. Then of course there is the factor that the basis of this essay shall be about; I do not find the Biblical God fit for worship. Over the course of this essay there will be some times when I will speak as if I believe in the Bible, when in fact I do not.

I plan to examine the Bible with critical inquiry. This essay will not be based upon scientific facts and how they disprove the Bible. It shall be an application of my emotions regarding compassion, love, mercy, patience, and justice. I hope to explain more clearly why the God depicted in the Bible violates my idea of a moral being. This shall be done over a series of topics. Each pointing out how Jehovah is undeserving of my worship. I will utilize Biblical verses to support my claim as well as what I consider to be logical reasoning.

Now would be the time to ask you to please take out your bibles for consultation. (I personally prefer the NIV or KJV) I will only cite the verse and a brief over view. I do not have the space to write out the verse in its entirety. I especially don’t wish to spew out so much information that I run the risk of overloading those people who dislike reading. (Funny confliction here, isn’t it? We are online, in a purely textual world, and people still have the audacity to complain about reading.) In the case that you dislike reading online essays, I recommend you print this out and thumb through it at your convenience.

Hell:

Hell, of course, is the mother of all of my problems with the bible. It is perhaps the most despicable and hideous of all of the Christian God’s crimes. Indeed, the cruelest of all concentration camps. (Certainly far worse than the ones created by the Nazis.) Described biblically as the “lake of fire, “the place of eternal torment with weeping and gnashing of teeth Jesus said in Mark 9:42-48 That it is better to commit suicide or self maiming then to be delivered unto hell. So, according to the bible I assume that all here can agree that there is an existence of hell, and that hell is the worst of all circumstance. Knowing this, let me indulge you as to why the existence of hell paints the Christian God as not fit for worshiping.

I am a moderately compassionate individual, rational, moral, and nurturing. Most of all I am a creator, a mother. I propose this to you, a human question. Can all here, Christian or atheist, safely say that if there is a God, he is our greatest thought magnified? Whatever emotion we feel as human, being created in his image, God is infinitely more feeling? For he is the creator of all things created, I believe this concept is pretty safe to assume. With this being so, my love for my daughter must be a fraction of God’s love for his children. Speaking as a mother, I can safely say that if my child were to commit the greatest harm upon me tomorrow, I would never wish her harm. Why? Simply because she is my creation.

If my daughter were to maim me, slander me, etc. I would still love her, for my instinct and emotion demands of me to protect and care for her regardless of her actions, much like all rational beings (animal kingdom included). So now I pose the question, why then would God condemn us to hell for something as menial as lack of faith? If he is not infinitely more so loving then me, why would hell even exist? Any true loving being would never condemn his own children to everlasting torment, especially one that proclaims himself to having the very essence of forgiveness.

But “God Is Just You Claim:

Most Christians have responded to this statement with the following rationalization. “God can not let all of his creations into heaven because he is just. I ask in rebuttal to this, since when is justice more important than love in the heart of a parent? Is hell even justice, or is it simply cruel and unusual punishment? The bible states the system of justice very simply. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. There is also another variation of that system with the biblical verse “eye for an eye. The Christian God violates his own system of law when he damns his creations to eternal suffering for sins as menial as theft or blasphemy. I hardly think, nor would any logical person, that throwing someone into a gnashing jaw would be justly befitting of nearly any crime. (With the exception of murder, and even so, eternal punishment is pretty excessive.)

Most courts of law would take custody of your child from you just for an excessive spanking. We as a people enacted these laws, for we thought them to be logical. Is God above logic, or what we deem as compassionate behavior? After all he pitches a majority of his children into a lake of “fire and brimstone. How many of us would want a parent such as that? Anyone of us would immediately sever our ties with such an abusive person. Yet Christians knowingly continue the insanity of giving worship to a God so cruel!

“Free Will, You Say?

It is also written that I was given free will with which to choose if I will go to hell or not. How can you possibly deem something free when you must fear consequences? That completely conflicts with the definition of free. If I were to hold a gun to your head and say “you have free will to not give me your wallet, but if you attempt to defy me I will kill you. Does it really feel as if you have a choice in the matter? Of course not. Free means to give or receive something with out an expectation of return. The whole free will concept is self defeating. Call it Circumstantial Will, for that is what it truly is.

Despite this, I have still had the displeasure of debating with those Christians who accept hell as a rational and fair wrath of God. They defend Jehovah’s creation of hell with the opinion that those who are committed to hell go voluntary, as if it is a consequence rather then a punishment. That indeed, we as children of God, chose rather to be hell’s inmates then God’s disciples in heaven. It’s an interesting idea. However, you don’t have to hurt anyone to get into Hell. All it takes, according to Scripture, is knowing about Jesus and not accepting him as Savior. It doesn’t matter how virtuous you are, how much good you do, how happy an environment you create for others. Given this, the voluntary entry argument doesn’t make sense. The same argument could be used to justify the sending of Aryan opponents of Nazism to concentration camps: they voluntarily chose not to give homage to Hitler, so they chose to be interred. Why should we blame the Nazis for the inmates’ choice? Why should we blame God for the choice of the damned?

Genocide:

I hear a lot from Christians about God’s “infinite compassion and mercy.

Instead of harping on me about something so unapparent, they should go tell it to the Midianites. (Please open your Bibles to Numbers 31) The following verses are a classic example of wholesale slaughter and rape under the direction of the same God they claim to be so merciful. A quick sample of this tale: On the way to the promised land, God had Moses wage a war campaign against the Midian. Moses was told to put every Midianite to death, plunder anything of value, set fire to their towns where they lived and all their encampments. Moses gave the orders to his troops (the sons of Israel) and went on a further campaign. On the return of his troops Moses was enraged with the commanders of the army. He said, “Why have you spared the life of all the women and children? You are to kill all the children and kill all the women who have slept with a man. The lord says spare the lives only of the young girls who have not slept with a man, and take them for yourselves, so that we may multiply into a great nation. Yes, friends, this is biblical infinite mercy and compassion for you. I particularly like the way that Moses got upset with them for sparing women and male children, but allowed the young girls to be kept for later raping.

I have had some Christians proclaim that these Midianite girls were not taken for raping but marriage. How ridiculous! If you continue further in the scripture you will find that marriage to a Midianite was a crime against God. A man named Zimri, broke the law and married a Midianite woman this angered God so he sent a plague among the Hebrews. Fortunately, a zealous son of Israel speared Zimri right through the genitals, and the plague went away. So now I ask you, if you could not marry a Midianite, just what were these “virgin woman who were to help multiply good for?

I don’t think the first born in Egypt during the captivity would have agreed with the verdict of compassion and mercy either. (Exodus 11:5 & 12:29) First of all, Jehovah is the one who purposely hardened the heart of the Pharaoh so that he would not let Moses and the Jews go. God messed with someone’s free will. God could have even teleported the Jews out of captivity without bloodshed, or put the Egyptians to sleep while they left, but no. God decided to set up a situation in which he knew he would have to punish the Pharaoh. Though this he didn’t even do. He punished the children instead. Judging from God’s previous actions, killing innocent children is much more his forte.

Lastly, please attempt to read the entire book of Joshua some evening. It is a long sequence of atrocities. I have not given all these quotes for space reasons. I urge you to look them up for yourself. Especially for Christians who are not familiar with the bible. It will leave you not only shocked and in question of just what you are worshiping, but it will give a new definition to all morality you claimed was a derivative of God. If by some chance you read Joshua and you are still compliant with the loving notion of God, I suggest you re evaluate your code of ethics.

Here is the place I will now speak of common rationalizations used for this slaughter. I have discovered via my discussions that there are two major forms: the corruption argument and the mercy argument. The former says that those slaughtered were evil and deserving of their fate; the latter says that since they were religiously incorrect, it was a mercy to terminate their existence.

The corruption argument simply does not hold up. The people slaughtered in the Old Testament were almost uniformly blameless (with a few exceptions, of course for instance, the Sodomites violated the conventions of hospitality.) Usually, no justification is offered beyond the fact that since they were of another tribe, it was OK to kill them. It goes with out saying that the hordes of slaughtered children were innocent. (*Quick tip-If God was anti abortion he wouldn’t have ordered the murder of pregnant women and young children.)

As to the mercy argument: If I don’t claim to be suffering, and don’t ask to die, neither you nor any god has the right to decide that you know better. (This would of course be a violation of my free will.) If a person tried to do this to me, I would quite frankly attempt to kill him; if a god tried, well, the only weapon I would have would be withholding my worship. Are you beginning to see why I do not comply with the worship of the Christian God?

Neglect:

Most of us, given omnipotence, would be able to do a far better job than Jehovah. What would you do if given omnipotence? If your answer is anything other than “abolish world hunger, disease or save the earth, there’s something more than a little skewed in your perception of mankind. There is no question that the very balance of life is in peril. To wish for these things doesn’t take “infinite mercy, just normal compassion and a bit of common sense. God’s supposed infinite mercy is apparently the same thing as no mercy at all.

What makes this particularly unforgivable is that even Jesus’ own standards demand feeding of the poor. See Matthew 25:35, in which it is stated that the blessed feed the hungry, and that the damned do not. I find it funny that God is held blameless, though, for not feeding them. Does not the old saying “practice what you preach apply to God? Is his lack of action a hypocrisy or a sin? Could it perhaps be both?

Usually, when I bring this up in a discussion, someone says, “No. It is the evil of men that is to blame; they have lots of money and keep it to themselves rather than feeding the poor. (Funny thing that the Christians who say this are usually conservative.) This argument uses a double standard. Men are held guilty for not feeding the poor, while God is held innocent for doing exactly the same. In fact, it would be far easier for God to feed all the poor with his omnipotence, than for any mortal man to feed even one! Mankind is certainly not blameless here, but it is Jehovah who is the true villain.

Another popular rationalization is that life without “challenges would be boring and dehumanizing, so God does not remove them. The fallacy here is grouping all challenges together. I personally lead a very challenging and satisfying life, but I have not lately had to flee any volcanoes or earthquakes, go without food for a week, or suffer the ravages of some disease. I would be quite happy, in fact, if I never do have to face such challenges as those. There is plenty of room for amelioration of the human condition without making it dull. Does it not defeat the purpose of living life if you are to starve to death?

Faith Is Required To Know God:

Suppose you were an omnipotent god, and you demand worship, such as the Christian God. Would you give proof of your existence to those who wished to follow you? I imagine for Jehovah that it would be quite simple to perform a continual sequence of verifiable miracles. It would be quite logical in practice too, for it would keep God’s followers from delusion and doubt. There is no such luck with Jehovah though. He demands absolute fidelity without any demonstration of his existence. The only so called record of his existence is the bible. I think it pretty much goes with out saying that not only is the bible 2,000 years out dated, but it is also very unoriginal. Any Christian who proposes that the bible is indeed evidence for God’s existence is proposing a double standard. For there are many books which claim to be actual accounts of a higher power. With this in mind, why not believe in Allah from the Koran? Could it be because your faith is what determines your belief and not your so called “factual book?

Let’s examine what faith is. The definition of faith is hope for a circumstance or thing that is not proven to be true. There is no virtue in accepting something on faith, since it may very well be false, and it is clearly not virtuous to believe the false. Faith has also been proven through out history, time and again, that it is equivalent to massive hysteria; IE: Crusades, Burning Times, Inquisitions, Holy Wars, etc. On a grand scale faith, thus far, has only proven to be an intellectual weakness, and a significant barrier to scientific and moral progress. With all of this in mind, how can God possibly expect us to view faith as the greatest way to glorify him, let alone demand this of us?

Most importantly, the point to remember here is that if we don’t believe in him, we go to Hell, and this is a greater evil than a lack of the “virtue of faith or a stunting of science, or anything else conceivable. If God is truly concerned about the good, he will do what he can to keep us from Hell, and withholding vital information from us is the exact opposite of this.

God Is The Creator Of Evil:

I am frustrated at two specific verses in the bible, which applies to this particular topic. The first is the biblical statement that “God is the Alpha and the Omega. Loosely defined it means the beginning and the end, the all knowing. Which of course implies that all of his actions and the results are fore known to him. I have a real problem with this notion. For if God was to know ahead of time that someday he would send me to hell for being an Atheist, I ask what was the purpose in him creating me in the first place? Was it simply to watch me be tortured? That seems to be the most logical explanation. I can think of no other rational explanation, nor neither has any Christian who I posed this question to. Some people have attempted to tell me that God has a purpose unknown to us, and that we must simply accept his will. Would you keep a friend who commits evil and offers no self-justification or remorse? Of course not, so why is this same judgment not applied to God? It’s seems rather contradictory that this trait is despised in humanity, yet, it is worshiped in religion.

Secondly, I want to reinforce the fact that God is indeed the creator of evil. Please read verse Isaiah 45:7. “I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the lord do all these things. The Christian God outright claims that he is indeed the source of evil. So how can he then claim to be sinless?

To be more specific, let’s talk about the lord’s creation of evil, let’s talk about the conception of Satan. This being was created and unleashed by God. Jehovah knew (for he is the all knowing) that at the time of Lucifer’s creation he would eventually become Satan, and spend his existence reeking havoc on man kind. Leading people into criminal activities. Suppose I were to build an evil robot, that I knew would go around torturing and murdering people. Whose fault would it be if I let it loose? Mine or the robot’s? Of course it would be mine, for I created it with that purpose and unleashed it for that purpose. Now I ask you, whose fault is deviltry in the world? Is it the PUPPET Satan or the being that deliberately created Satan’s evil?

Now God Plays Switch-A-Roo And Humans Are The Creators Of Evil Not only does the bible imply, but so do many Christians, that we as a people are the creator of evil. It is clear for reading the bible that this is untrue, but the speculation still remains. Supposedly, when Adam and Eve fell from grace, they single handedly brought evil into the world. All you have to do is think logically for a moment, and you will obviously see something is very unjust with this concept. Could any rational being hold a starving infant in Ethiopia responsible for the actions of two long dead people? Or perhaps, would you find it fair to be convicted of Jack the Ripper’s crimes? The connection in both of these instances are not only ludicrous but, disgusting to nod your head at. People who use this argument are simply attempting to rationalize sadism.

I must declare that a Christian that walks into a children’s ward and insists that it is correct that children suffer as a result of the original sin, must destroy themselves of all compassion and mercy. I insist that those who worship the lord knowing this hypocrisy must be as cruel as the Christian God he/she believes in. A complete and utter moral degenerate, taking stabs at protecting their belief system. A person as such would just as easily worship Satan as God in their blindness and faith. For apparently, no amount of evidence could convince him that God was bad once they decided to worship him; their basic assumption is that they are correct, which makes them untouchable by any amount of rationality.

Human Judgment

One of the criticisms most frequently leveled at me when presenting any of the above arguments has been that I have no right to judge God. A pretty feeble grasp at the straws. Christians proclaim that God is the definition of good. All morality proceeds downwards from him, so it makes no sense to apply moral standards to him. But I must interject. God allowed my ancestors Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. Thus, allowing us “to be like gods, and know the difference between good and evil. This very biblical verse, written in the first book of Genesis, conflicts with the same argument these Christians attempt to use. If we as humans are now capable of knowing good and evil LIKE THE GODS why can't we use our judgment? How can it be lower then God’s if God is the one who claimed that we are like him?

Let’s say for the sake of argument that I should not judge God. Well then, would it be fair to hold him up to his own standards? Please consult verses Matthew 25:41-46 We hear Jesus say: “Go away from me with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you never gave me food; I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink; I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, naked and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me. . . And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the virtuous to eternal life.

Now, I have never personally seen Jesus feed the hungry nor, have I seen him give drink to those who thirst. But, I do personally see thousands of people die of starvation. I do not recall Jesus dispensing clothes. He has never made me feel welcome, let alone acknowledged. I see the faithful sicken and die on a daily basis. In light of this Jesus himself is the worst of all sinners; if there is no double standard he will be at the head of the line into eternal punishment. He is guilty of every crime of which he accuses the damned.

In Conclusion

I don’t think I could ever complete a whole list as to what I find objectionable regarding the bible. There are many more topics in which to tackle such as sexism, infanticide, homophobia, and the likes. Frankly, I find it too tiresome to go on any further. As I read over all that I have wrote I simply wish to close this essay with a very brief summation: I do not believe in the reality of God, except as a psychological phenomenon, but if I did believe I would not worship that horror. It violates my morality to worship a hypocritical, judgmental, self righteous murderer. In punishment, it could send me to the hell it’s made for those it dislikes, and if there was no other choice but worshiping it, I would walk in proudly.

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:28 pm
by buttercup
You are experiencing mid life crisis Jim :wah:

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:40 pm
by Musiclover89
I hate Religion no offence to any religious people on here but i don't see the point worshiping sothing if it hasnt been proven to be existed

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:43 pm
by neffy
ohhhhhhhh jimbo heavy stuff :-2:-2:-2

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:52 pm
by WonderWendy3
I adore you to pieces Jimbo...but tbh....way too much mumbo jumbo to me....I don't agree with what I read and not going to argue with anyone about what I believe....

2Corithians 5:7

7We live by faith, not by sight

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:54 pm
by minks
to answer your question Jimbo

NONE, it's to easily twisted to suit individual needs.

I call BS.

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:58 pm
by Carl44
mid life crisis minkie no its too late for that :wah:





just looking for answers to questions



my mate is a fully god squaded up member





i just wish i got it but i dont get it at all :thinking::thinking:

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:01 pm
by minks
jimbo;679314 wrote: mid life crisis minkie no its too late for that :wah:





just looking for answers to questions



my mate is a fully god squaded up member





i just wish i got it but i dont get it at all :thinking::thinking:


was B cup who suggested the crisis Jimbo not I. I am a complete and total non-believer, as I stated, it's to easily twisted to suit the individual.

For me black is black, white is white, grey is not an option.

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:05 pm
by WonderWendy3
how much faith do you have in it ???



100%



What exactly are your questions Jimbo?? What don't you get?



The stuff you posted was full of negativity and I couldn't get into it, I'd be happy to answer your questions...

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:09 pm
by RedGlitter
I thought that stuff was pretty interesting Jimbo. It made quite a few good points. I'd love to see some answers relating to those points.

I'm not in the christian god squad so I can't comment on much except to say the bible may be an interesting book but don't see it as any kind of guide or any thing deserving of my faith and belief.

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:17 pm
by Carl44
minks;679317 wrote: was B cup who suggested the crisis Jimbo not I. I am a complete and total non-believer, as I stated, it's to easily twisted to suit the individual.

For me black is black, white is white, grey is not an option.


er i know that minksie i'm not a total moron :rolleyes:





i was er just letting you know just in case :D

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:21 pm
by minks
jimbo;679390 wrote: er i know that minksie i'm not a total moron :rolleyes:





i was er just letting you know just in case :D


oh ok thank you for the clarification I think :D

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:24 pm
by Carl44
[quote=WonderWendy3;679322]how much faith do you have in it ???





100%





What exactly are your questions Jimbo?? What don't you get?





i just dont get the whole faith thing ,i cant see if you think about it how you can believe in the bible ,i was shocked at all the killing plagues and stuff that god is meant to of done it dont sound like a loving god to me at all really





The stuff you posted was full of negativity and I couldn't get into it, I'd be happy to answer your questions,





its is bits that are meant to be in the bible all the negitive stuff :confused:

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:17 pm
by WonderWendy3
jimbo;679272 wrote: Biblical/Pentateuch Intolerance:
I see so many religionists rant and rave about how Atheists are “not tolerant of believers and have no respect for their faith. To non believers this claim is absurd. For intolerance of various religions is the foundation of Judaism, Christianity, Muslim and many other orthodox communities. Matter of fact, the Bible and Pentateuch commands religious intolerance in MANY verses, even to the point of KILLING people for their beliefs. Here then, are a few choice verses that show just how intolerant these religionists are of other believers and nonbelievers. We shall start with the two verses that helped to inflict one of the biggest mass murders in history, the Inquisition.

Woman with “familiar spirits must be stoned to death. Leviticus 20:27

“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Exodus 22:18



Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5



Ignorance is bliss. Christians should not practice free inquiry nor socialize with non Christians:

Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10

Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17

Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8



Judge other religions for not following Christ:

Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22

Christians are “of God; everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19

The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ 2 John 1:7

Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart. Hebrews 3:12

False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan. Revelations 2:9, 3:9



Here are my two personal favorites:

Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33


Jimbo, this has the negative spin on it, not sure of the translation....gonna go look that up and come back in next post....it doesn't state in this quote and I couldn't get to it from here....

but the New King James version says:

Philippians 2:10

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,

Romans 8:33

Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:24 pm
by WonderWendy3
I found the New American Bible, which is what they reference to with the Bible references. I know nothing of this Bible.

http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/

I have only read King James and prefer the New King James Version...

bottom line is that we can go round and round all day long about how a God can kill and destroy, but he also created beauty and blesses us daily.

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:24 pm
by Richard Bell
WonderWendy3;679529 wrote: bottom line is that we can go round and round all day long about how a God can kill and destroy, but he also created beauty and blesses us daily.


I prefer a Deity without the violent mood swings.

:mad::D

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:49 pm
by WonderWendy3
almostfamous;679570 wrote: Jimbo, I don't think, well I know, that nobody here is going to be able to give you the answers you need. I think Wendy said it best about faith. We have faith in a lot of things in our life that we can't see, touch, but we believe in them nonetheless. The wind being prime example.



As for my opinion on the Bible. I find it to be believable and applicable as it was in the days it was written. But, I feel it's open to translation. Do I attend religious services? Never would be an honest answer. I have my reasons but their mine. I'm a spiritual person and am open to a lot of faiths. Buddhism is one of my favorites and one I can more closely relate to.



However, I believe in God, one God, as well as heaven and hell. Do I buy all of everything Christianity consists of?? I'd go to church if I did.






:yh_hugs:yh_clap:yh_clap

the bible ????

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:49 pm
by 911
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Using this 'quote' as an example, is not to be taken literally. I think it actually says: He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

My understanding is that they will destroy themselves or shall be doomed. By their own hand and not by God himself or any of his followers. There are some tough passages in the Bible and certain religions that take them literally and some do not. You have to find the faith and understanding of the Bible that makes sense to you.

There are snake handlers and speakers of tongues and all sorts of religions that understand the Bible in the way that comforts them best. :)

the bible ????

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:56 am
by gmc
posted by jimbo

how much faith do you have in it ???



i really don't know much about it ,how accurate is this ,its supposed to be out of the bible but just the bad bits ,, any of the god squad out there care to tell me how accurate the quotes are


The bible is the history of the jewish people. Unique in that it is one of the few written accounts surviving from those times. It is the story of one tribe surviving in competition with all the other tribes around at the time. A stronger tribe would take the land and resources from a weaker tribe-something that happened all over the world. In a harsh environment where you are at the mercy of earthquakes, storms etc etc and you do not understand what causes these things then you create something to explain it. This was called god, he was hard and capricious because that is what life was like where your crops could be destroyed by storm or plagues of insects and building fell down because of earthquakes. The Greek gods were capricious as well-they played with mankind and you could worship them if you liked but don't kid yourself that they would listen or answer your prayers unless they felt like it.

If you were going to take on another tribe then convincing yourself that god-your god the only true one was on your side is a good idea. The romans tended to adopt gods from those they conquered just to hedge their rather than take the risk of offending any of them. The pantheon in rome was originally intended to house all the gods

We are the chosen ones is a good survival strategy if you want to fill your troops with the right kind of zeal. The god of the old testament condoned killing unbelievers and those that did not believe as you did and sacrificing members of defeated tribes because he was helping his followers and all else was irrelevant. apart from that you want he conquered too demoralised and weakened to fight back in the future. Killing all the males makes sense in that context, children are useless as slaves and a drain on resources.

When the early settlers in the americas found that disease (that they had brought with them) was wiped out the original inhabitants many of the more religious took this as a sign from god that them to take over this land.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population ... us_peoples



The earliest European immigrants offered two principal explanations for the population decline of the American natives. The first was the brutal practices of the Spanish conquistadores, as recorded by the Spanish themselves, most notably by the Dominican friar Bartolomé de Las Casas, whose writings vividly depict atrocities committed on the natives (in particular the Tainos) by the Spanish. The second explanation was a perceived divine approval, in that God had removed the natives as part of His divine plan in order to make way for a new Christian civilization. Many natives of the Americas viewed their troubles in terms of religious or supernatural causes. Scholars now believe that, among the various contributing factors, epidemic disease was the overwhelming cause of the population decline of the American natives.[6]




Four thousand years from now who knows how the story will be told.

What is described in the bible is inter tribal conflict no different from the huns or the helvetii invading Europe in pursuit of resources or because climate change rendered where they were non viable. or the Romans creating an empire because they were superior to everybody else and had the right to conqueor others. When god showed moses the land of milk and honey it was overflowing because somebody else was already there and had developed it, the jews were about to invade. This is the god that presumably created those who were`about to be enslaved.

Actually that is one of the things that started putting me off religion. If god made all mankind then why as he so shitty to some of his people and favour some over the rest and why would you want to worship and believe in such a vindictive capricious old B^&^D. That god was either real or a creation of a primitive people-take your pick.

There is obviously a conflict between the old and new testament, either god had a makeover or it is a different god in the new testament from that portrayed in the old.

Many of the events described in the bible probably did happen-how do you describe an earthquake if you don't know what it is, the sea withdraws just before a tsunami hits, land sinks and rises during an earthquake a solar eclipse is frightening if you don't expect it. The flood has echoes in cultures all around the world. One theory is that it happened when the Atlantic finally breached the land bridge between spain and africa-all around the Mediterranean there are signs that at some point the land has sunk in places and risen off others. Off japan there are ruined cities that are now underwater the same off India. If an earthquake destroys a city is it a natural event or god's judgement? which it is depends on your level of knowledge and if you want to understand why you will think up a reason if you can't find an explanation that makes sense.

I can't understand why anyone actually believes the god of the old testament is GOD speaking to humanity. That not only is god speaking but despite being written in hebrew, translated in to Greek, to latin and so on that at each phase god had guided the hand of the translator and so what you read in whatever version you have is correct and has not been doctored by those in power at the time.

The belief is irrational-you either believe it or you don't but we live in a society where we are expected to be tolerant of those who do believe and are expected to accept they have the moral authority to preach to others what they should and should not believe.

It is down to faith because you either believe it or it is a load of crap. Perhaps if all you read is the bible you end up with a distorted view of thing, certainly most religions don't approve of their followers reading things which might lead them to question their faith. Best not to think too much about faith. But if you think it a load of crap be careful not to offend the sensibilities of the godly who at best might pray for you or given half a chance tie you to a stake and set fire to you as a heretic. Freethinking up with we will not put. No doubt I am going to hell which sounds remarkably Greek to me-not that I would hint, insinuate or otherwise imply that is any more than a coincidence.

the bible ????

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:07 am
by Carl44
gmc;680421 wrote: posted by jimbo





The bible is the history of the jewish people. Unique in that it is one of the few written accounts surviving from those times. It is the story of one tribe surviving in competition with all the other tribes around at the time. A stronger tribe would take the land and resources from a weaker tribe-something that happened all over the world. In a harsh environment where you are at the mercy of earthquakes, storms etc etc and you do not understand what causes these things then you create something to explain it. This was called god, he was hard and capricious because that is what life was like where your crops could be destroyed by storm or plagues of insects and building fell down because of earthquakes. The Greek gods were capricious as well-they played with mankind and you could worship them if you liked but don't kid yourself that they would listen or answer your prayers unless they felt like it.



If you were going to take on another tribe then convincing yourself that god-your god the only true one was on your side is a good idea. The romans tended to adopt gods from those they conquered just to hedge their rather than take the risk of offending any of them. The pantheon in rome was originally intended to house all the gods



We are the chosen ones is a good survival strategy if you want to fill your troops with the right kind of zeal. The god of the old testament condoned killing unbelievers and those that did not believe as you did and sacrificing members of defeated tribes because he was helping his followers and all else was irrelevant. apart from that you want he conquered too demoralised and weakened to fight back in the future. Killing all the males makes sense in that context, children are useless as slaves and a drain on resources.



When the early settlers in the americas found that disease (that they had brought with them) was wiped out the original inhabitants many of the more religious took this as a sign from god that them to take over this land.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population ... us_peoples









Four thousand years from now who knows how the story will be told.



What is described in the bible is inter tribal conflict no different from the huns or the helvetii invading Europe in pursuit of resources or because climate change rendered where they were non viable. or the Romans creating an empire because they were superior to everybody else and had the right to conqueor others. When god showed moses the land of milk and honey it was overflowing because somebody else was already there and had developed it, the jews were about to invade. This is the god that presumably created those who were`about to be enslaved.



Actually that is one of the things that started putting me off religion. If god made all mankind then why as he so shitty to some of his people and favour some over the rest and why would you want to worship and believe in such a vindictive capricious old B^&^D. That god was either real or a creation of a primitive people-take your pick.



There is obviously a conflict between the old and new testament, either god had a makeover or it is a different god in the new testament from that portrayed in the old.



Many of the events described in the bible probably did happen-how do you describe an earthquake if you don't know what it is, the sea withdraws just before a tsunami hits, land sinks and rises during an earthquake a solar eclipse is frightening if you don't expect it. The flood has echoes in cultures all around the world. One theory is that it happened when the Atlantic finally breached the land bridge between spain and africa-all around the Mediterranean there are signs that at some point the land has sunk in places and risen off others. Off japan there are ruined cities that are now underwater the same off India. If an earthquake destroys a city is it a natural event or god's judgement? which it is depends on your level of knowledge and if you want to understand why you will think up a reason if you can't find an explanation that makes sense.



I can't understand why anyone actually believes the god of the old testament is ly GOD speaking to humanity. That not only is god speaking but despite being written in hebrew, translated in to Greek, to latin and so on that at each phase god had guided the hand of the translator and so what you read in whatever version you have is correct and has not been doctored by those in power at the time.



The belief is irrational-you either believe it or you don't but we live in a society where we are expected to be tolerant of those who do believe and are expected to accept they have the moral authority to preach to others what they should and should not believe.



It is down to faith because you either believe it or it is a load of crap. Perhaps if all you read is the bible you end up with a distorted view of thing, certainly most religions don't approve of their followers reading things which might lead them to question their faith. Best not to think too much about faith. But if you think it a load of crap be careful not to offend the sensibilities of the godly who at best might pray for you or given half a chance tie you to a stake and set fire to you as a heretic. Freethinking up with we will not put. No doubt I am going to hell which sounds remarkably Greek to me-not that I would hint, insinuate or otherwise imply that is any more than a coincidence.




WHAT A FANTASTIC POST :-6:-6

the bible ????

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:47 pm
by The Rob
The interpreted histories and parables that constitute The Bible are all products of the times in which they were written, each bearing the unique perspective and agenda of it's author. It's a mistake to attempt to graft the socio-political mores of the past onto events of the present. That is the way of the fundamentalist mind, and we need only to look to the middle-east to find what's sown by it.

the bible ????

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:50 am
by The Rob
almostfamous;681423 wrote: That was well said.



confusing for a moment there :o but I reread it. Good to see you as well :-6


Good to see you! :D:-6