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Fingerprinting Your Kid in School?

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:22 am
by RedGlitter
Were I a parent, I would fight this tooth and nail. You can't tell me that they won't use that kid's personal code to track his goings-on as an adult.

We keep getting closer to 1984.

Tuesday, Sep. 25, 2007

Should Schools Fingerprint Your Kids?

By Steven Gray



The lunch lines weren't moving fast enough for Linda Stoll, head of food programs at the Boulder Valley, Colo., school district. Because of that, kids had barely enough time to sit and eat before the lunch period was over. So, last year, Stoll began looking for ways to speed up the queue. She discovered that many students, especially kindergarteners, can't remember their six-digit ID number, which they're required to type into keypads at the end of lunch lines. She then found out that there was technology that would allow a scanner to identify a kid qualified for lunch with the swipe of a finger, moving him or her quickly along. It would help kids who regularly forget their lunch money, and it would potentially remove some of the stigma faced by children who receive special tickets for free or reduced lunch. She proposed the idea, believing it would be the perfect solution.

It turned out to be the perfect storm. Dozens of parents raised concerns about privacy. Many mentioned identity theft. Others expressed fear that immigrant children might be unfairly tracked by government. Eventually, Stoll's plan was scrapped.

Elementary and high school students in Pennsylvania, New Jersey and West Virginia use finger scans to pay for lunch — and even to check into class. But in many other states, the parental outcry about privacy has stopped the technology in its tracks. Michigan and Iowa have passed laws essentially barring schools from taking electronic fingerprints of children. Last month, Illinois enacted a law requiring schools to get parental consent before capturing an image of a child's finger.

Generally, student information collected by schools is protected by the federal government's privacy laws. So schools can't simply give away information gleaned from a student's fingerprint. Still, many parents and privacy law experts remain anxious about records accessible to companies managing a school's computer system — and whether that information can moved if that company is ever sold.

Americans have historically resisted fingerprints of any kind, associating them with law enforcement. "But through the back door, schools are making decisions that fly in the face of deeply held commitments to privacy by throwing on these kids fingerprint programs," says Helen Nissenbaum, a New York University professor of culture and communication who studies the intersection of technology and ethics.

Finger scanning is a type of biometric, or a form of identification. So is a person's voice, even odor, sweat pores and lips. It's not known how many schools use finger scans and other biometrics. But observers of the $1 billion North American biometrics industry say schools represent a small but growing share of their market.

For an example of how the technology typically works, consider another Colorado school district: St. Vrain Valley. School administrators spend hours at the start of each school year scanning several points on the student's right index finger. "The information is saved within our system — it doesn't go anyplace else," says Shelly Allen, director of nutrition services for the 23,000-student district. When the student reaches the end of the line, she places an index finger on a pad about the size of a car's garage opener. Her name, and sometimes an image of her face, appears on a computer screen in front of the cashier. Kids with dirty or sweaty fingers are allowed to use their ID card, as are students who can't have an image taken of them because of religious or cultural issues. Allen says the system has helped add at least 10 minutes to lunch periods that in some schools last just 20 minutes. The technology hasn't necessarily saved money: the number of cafeteria employees has largely remained unchanged.

But there is nothing static about family reaction. Parents are often caught off-guard by the arrival of the new technology in their children's school. Last fall, Jim Karlsberger's eight-year-old son returned from school with a newsletter briefly reporting that lunchroom finger scanning was set to begin. "I thought it was Orwellian," says Karlsberger, a 43-year-old hotel manager in Williams, Ariz. "I find it hard to believe that someone, someday, won't find a way to compromise the information on my child's fingerprint." He rallied dozens of parents and the American Civil Liberties union to derail the school's plan. Now Tom McCraley, the 760-student school district's superintendent, says that before considering finger scanning, "I'd want to make sure parents had a full understanding about it."

In Boulder, Stoll still hopes to someday use fingerprint scanning in her schools. "I'm just disappointed our parents wouldn't let us be on the forefront of this technology," she says.

Fingerprinting Your Kid in School?

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:32 am
by AussiePam
The US relatively recently introduced finger scanning in airports for all foreigners - and biometric passports are coming. I think 1984 came, a while back.

Fingerprinting Your Kid in School?

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:50 am
by Indian Princess
They do the Id thing here for lunch, the problem is when you put $50.00 on the lunch account too many times it loses it, and I no longer let my son use it, it is cash baby all the way now, and to think an adorable 5 year old missing mama at school all day long,is ridiculous to give him/her added stress,remember he is still trying to master 2 plus 2.



:D

Fingerprinting Your Kid in School?

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:35 am
by Lisa
I'm with you RG.I will not let anyone have my childs fingerprints at school. If they ever say it's required ,that will be the day I definitly take her out of public schools. Not that I think or want her to be a bank robber someday. I just think it's too personal to give out.

In my state they try to get people to vovoluntary give thier fingerprints when they get thier drivers license renewed,I tell them, NO THANK YOU.



Lisa :)



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Fingerprinting Your Kid in School?

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:57 am
by RedGlitter
Indian Princess;701270 wrote: is ridiculous to give him/her added stress,remember he is still trying to master 2 plus 2.



:D


I agree IP, I thought the same thing; how's a child that young going to commit a six digit number to memory??

FuzzyNavel;701337 wrote:

In my state they try to get people to vovoluntary give thier fingerprints when they get thier drivers license renewed,I tell them, NO THANK YOU.



Lisa :)






Ooo...I would not like that, Fuzzy N! Not at all. I even hate having to leave my thumbprint on the back of a check when I cash it. I don't know what they have to compare it to since I've never been fingerprinted but I resent it just the same.

Fingerprinting Your Kid in School?

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:03 am
by sunny104
kids here have to know their own code from kindergarten and I haven't heard that it was a problem for anyone. My daughter has no problem memorizing things.

there would be no need to use fingerprints! :rolleyes:

Fingerprinting Your Kid in School?

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:51 am
by Lisa
RedGlitter;701347 wrote:







Ooo...I would not like that, Fuzzy N! Not at all. I even hate having to leave my thumbprint on the back of a check when I cash it. I don't know what they have to compare it to since I've never been fingerprinted but I resent it just the same.


WOW:eek:, I've never heard of putting a fingerprint on the back of a check.I wouldn't like that either.:thinking:



Lisa :)



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Fingerprinting Your Kid in School?

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:51 am
by Pheasy
I'm not sure I would care about finger-printing my children. Its a good discussion point - why do people object to it, what harm can it cause? Your views and reasons could change mind - but right now I don't see the problem. :-6

Fingerprinting Your Kid in School?

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:02 am
by RedGlitter
ThePheasant;701425 wrote: I'm not sure I would care about finger-printing my children. Its a good discussion point - why do people object to it, what harm can it cause? Your views and reasons could change mind - but right now I don't see the problem. :-6


Well, I object to it because it's an invasion of privacy. Even a child deserves privacy. What's to stop them at lunches? They can connect that fingerprint to his grades, medications he takes, behavioral disorders he may have, etc; and by the time he grows up, all his life's business could be traced through that fingerprint. If they can implement this at school you know it's only a matter of time until your boss requires a fingerprint and your bank, and then your business is in the street so to speak, to be available to anyone who can read that data. People say they've nothing to hide. Well they have more than they know of. I don't want to go to a job interview and be turned down because the boss looked into my credit history (which they already do!) and found out how much my mortgage is and how much I owe to whom and that I support abortion rights and that I may have picketed for animal rights and that I may have a medical issue I don't want known. ETC. Quite frankly your life is nobody else's business and this fingerprinting stuff is a bad idea not only because of that but because a child has no say so in the matter. By the time he is an adult, he'll be screwed and there was nothing he could do about it in the beginning. His parents allowed this and now he's stuck with a digital trail of personal information for all to see.

Fingerprinting Your Kid in School?

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:20 am
by Pheasy
RedGlitter;701430 wrote: Well, I object to it because it's an invasion of privacy. Even a child deserves privacy. What's to stop them at lunches? They can connect that fingerprint to his grades, medications he takes, behavioral disorders he may have, etc; and by the time he grows up, all his life's business could be traced through that fingerprint. If they can implement this at school you know it's only a matter of time until your boss requires a fingerprint and your bank, and then your business is in the street so to speak, to be available to anyone who can read that data. People say they've nothing to hide. Well they have more than they know of. I don't want to go to a job interview and be turned down because the boss looked into my credit history (which they already do!) and found out how much my mortgage is and how much I owe to whom and that I support abortion rights and that I may have picketed for animal rights and that I may have a medical issue I don't want known. ETC. Quite frankly your life is nobody else's business and this fingerprinting stuff is a bad idea not only because of that but because a child has no say so in the matter. By the time he is an adult, he'll be screwed and there was nothing he could do about it in the beginning. His parents allowed this and now he's stuck with a digital trail of personal information for all to see.


:wah: Okay Red, you convinced me. :wah:

I was thinking more of the fingerprint only identifying a person, not keeping a log of their entire history. So yes, I agree fingerprinting, if taken to that extreme, would be an invasion of privacy :-6

Fingerprinting Your Kid in School?

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:24 am
by Lisa
RedGlitter;701430 wrote: Well, I object to it because it's an invasion of privacy. Even a child deserves privacy. a child has no say so in the matter. By the time he is an adult, he'll be screwed and there was nothing he could do about it in the beginning. His parents allowed this and now he's stuck with a digital trail of personal information for all to see.


That is I how I feel about it too. not that I have anything to hide,or hopefuly my child someday.

I just don't want to be falsely accused of crime just because my fingerprints were at the scene.And the police come banging at my door.



Lisa :)

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