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The world is watching?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:39 pm
by Chookie
EDINBURGH, Scotland — A traffic island at the foot of Edinburgh's "Royal Mile" stands equidistant between the Palace of Holyroodhouse (circa 1128), official residence of the Queen in Scotland, and the modernistic home of the Scottish Parliament (circa 2004), a stark contrast in architecture and politics.

If Alex Salmond has his way, that traffic island will become an island in a moat. Salmond, first minister of the Scottish government, leads the Scottish National Party, which wants Scotland to be an independent nation.

Farewell to the 300-year-old Treaty of Union, which in 1707 united England and Scotland. Together they forged an empire, fought two world wars and maintained the historical center of the English-speaking world. But Scots, smarting for centuries as the United Kingdom's junior partner, sent a volley across Britannia's bow in 2007.

Scotland chose a Scottish National Party (SNP) government, for the first time since Scots got their own regional government in 1999 as part of a "devolution" agreement brokered by the Labor government of British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

The SNP won 47 seats in May elections, to 46 for Scottish Labor and 36 split among Conservatives, Liberal Democrats and Greens. That made the SNP a minority government, and First Minister Salmond has governed since then without a coalition partner, cautious with his legislative proposals because he lacks a majority.

But, Salmond has ramped up rhetoric and ideas aimed at provoking Scots to declare independence within the next several years. None of the other parties supports independence, so Salmond needs some future par-liamentary victories to take a separation vote to the people.

A breakup of the United Kingdom would have profound importance not only for Scotland and England, but would encourage potential breakaway "nations" in Spain, Belgium and other spots of nationalistic ferment.

For the United States, it would split and weaken our most-reliable foreign-policy ally; at minimum, it could mean removal of American nuclear submarines from Scotland.

Like many of the estimated 20 million Americans with Scottish blood, I've been drawn to the ancient land, made many trips there and established lifelong friendships. This fall, my wife and I spent six weeks in the country, while the nationalistic debate bubbled.

The brew was spiced by the ascent of Gordon Brown to succeed Blair as prime minister, placing a native Scot at the head of the U.K. government in Westminster. Brown named fellow Scots Alistair Darling and Des Brown as chancellor of the exchequer and defense minister, respectively; English politicians spoke disdainfully of a "Tartan Cabinet."

A casual observer might expect that fellow Scots Brown and Salmond would find common ground, but the past several months have seen bitter recriminations between the leaders, centering on a single important issue: Should the Union remain or should Scotland's 5 million denizens split from the 55 million residents of England, Wales and Northern Ireland?

Brown pounded his Unionist credentials into the ground at the annual Labor Party conference in September, using the words "Britain" or "British" 74 times in his first major speech as prime minister. It is rare to hear a Scot refer to himself as "British," less rare for an Englishman to do so.

There are few serious policy differences between the Scottish Nationalists and Labor — both are slightly left of center — but Scottish independence puts them at odds and Salmond is a master of exploiting the split. A mid-December poll showed 40 percent of Scots now favor independence, 44 percent are opposed. In 2006, the same question drew 51 percent in favor of separation.

Ironically, support for independence has declined at the same time Scots tell pollsters they are satisfied with the SNP's early start at governing.

One reading of this situation is that Labor did a lousy job of running the devolved government from 1999 until 2007 — plenty of voices on Scotland's feisty media and intellectual scenes hold that view — so Scots see the SNP as a default button to govern the country, but not to pull it out of the United Kingdom.

Another reading is that the canny Scots have figured a way to have the better of two worlds, and will work the equation until it breaks. Scotland gets its government finances from the U.K. treasury under a complex formula that goes back 40 years, and it does well under the formula. The 1997 devolution gives Scots control of education, police, health and housing; many Scots want more control, if not independence.

British Labor needs Scotland — Scottish seats maintain Labor's majority; loss of Scotland would bring a Conservative government to Westminster. So, the Scots can pressure Labor for greater concessions, using independence as a threat.

A recent illustration of this bipolar thinking is John Smeaton, the closest Scotland has to a 9/11 hero. Smeaton is the baggage handler who helped police break up the attempted suicide bombing at Glasgow Airport in June. Gordon Brown introduced him at the Labor Party conference, so everyone thought Smeaton backed Labor. But, Smeaton later admitted he supports Salmond in Scottish elections, although he doesn't support independence. He will vote Labor for Westminster and the SNP for Scotland. There you have it.

Scots enjoy the attention they are getting with their vote for the SNP, and they love twisting the nose of the English bulldog. They've been doing that for centuries, as fans of Braveheart and Bonnie Prince Charlie will attest. But they are riding a whirlwind here — the English outnumber the Scots roughly 10 to 1, and an increasingly tetchy English constituency just could call their bluff and ask them to go packing. In fact, the odds of a Scottish separation really depend at least as much on actions south of Hadrian's Wall as they do on the north.

Modern Scottish nationalism dates to 1934, but was long considered futile until in 1974 the SNP won 11 seats in the British Parliament. Subsequent Tory governments (1979-97) were no friend to Scotland — Margaret Thatcher in particular fueled the SNP's ire — and when Labor returned to power in 1997, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown won a devolution vote, which 74 percent of Scots supported. The Scottish Parliament opened two years later, the symbol of a nation that isn't quite a nation.

Scots have always been disproportionately prominent in the larger world.

For a country the size of Finland (or Washington state), Scotland's contributions in science, economics, industry and literature are staggering. The "Scottish Renaissance" of the late 18th century brought Adam Smith and David Hume. A century later, Andrew Carnegie, Alexander Graham Bell and James Watt led in industry and science. Scots in the North West Company and Hudson's Bay Company opened the Pacific Northwest: Simon Fraser, John McLoughlin, George Simpson. Scotland's monuments are to writers — Walter Scott, Robert Burns, Robert Louis Stevenson; obscure Highland poets are memorialized on roadside plaques. Arthur Conan Doyle was a Scot, so is Alexander McCall Smith. The cloned sheep, Dolly, was Scottish.

Scotland is one of Europe's major financial centers and the Royal Bank of Scotland one of the six largest banks in the world. Scottish education ranks among the best in the world, as does its high-tech industry.

Images of kilts, bagpipes and haggis notwithstanding, today's average Scot lives in the central lowlands in Glasgow, Edinburgh or points between, does not have a name beginning with "Mac" and has never seen much of the Highlands beyond Inverness. His dialect differs from BBC English (and in the case of Glaswegians, from nearly every other permutation of English). She doesn't speak Gaelic and drinks much more wine than scotch.

The union that the Scots and English formalized in 1707 has never been an easy one and English intellectuals and politicians often looked down on the "wild" Scots. Samuel Johnson, having made his famous Highland trek, observed, "The noblest prospect which a Scotchman ever sees, is the high road that leads him to England." Yet, Johnson's chronicler, the Scot James Boswell, wrote in 1762, "I hated the English; I wished from my soul that the Union was broke ... " This only half a century after the nations joined.

"Scottishness," once defined by the romantic literature of Walter Scott, is back and may be intensifying; difficult to define, it could be a factor in separation. Salmond, ever the promoter, recently declared St. Andrew's Day (Nov. 30) as a national holiday to open a two-month winter festival, including Hogmanay (New Year's Day) and Burns' Night (Jan. 25). The idea is to celebrate "Scottishness," with music and cultural events (and perhaps a wee dram). "It is part of being a self-confident country," said Salmond.

Talk of independence helps build self-confidence against the so-called "Scottish cringe," defined by writer Kenny Farquharson as "the involuntary shudder some Scots seem to experience when confronted with anything vaguely Scottish."

Somewhere between outright independence and the "Scottish cringe," Scottish pragmatism may prevail and a rewritten Treaty of Union may emerge, with more powers granted to Scotland, including the right and obligation to raise Scottish tax revenues in Scotland and a new voting alignment in the U.K. Parliament that recognizes the realities of devolution.

There is much holding the Union together, primarily economic links and the millions of Scots who have moved south and English who have moved north. Life in Scotland is very good nowadays — incomparable to the Scotland I saw 35 years ago — and Scotland's intellectual, business and economic leadership is not leading a parade for independence. Edinburgh, the center of prosperity, media and politics, is the least supportive of the SNP.

Only a deliberate anti-Scotland campaign by English Conservatives (the Tories have only one member of Parliament from Scotland), reviving Scottish memories of the hated rule of Margaret Thatcher, is likely to send Scottish separatists to the barricades. Tempting though that may be to a new generation of Tory leaders, there is enough to lose on both sides of the Tartan Border to keep the Union alive.

There is little question that Scotland is capable of handling its affairs — it did before 1707 — and its voice in the European Union and United Nations would be clear and strong. But its greatest days, from "Scottish Enlightenment" right down to the famed Edinburgh Festival of today, have come within the United Kingdom.

And yet, against the odds, Alex Salmond has put the ball in play, kicked it down the field. Scots, of course, grow up doing that — it's part of being Scottish.

Floyd J. McKay, a journalism professor emeritus at Western Washington University, is a regular contributor to Times editorial pages. E-mail him at floydmckay@yahoo.com

Copyright © 2008 The Seattle Times Com

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/o ... oyd06.html


Talk about being behind the times??? I found this bit absolutely hilarious "at minimum, it could mean removal of American nuclear submarines from Scotland."

The only US nuclear submarine base in (the Polaris base on the Holy Loch) Scotland closed in 1992.

The world is watching?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:11 pm
by Galbally
I think its interesting to actually get an outside opinion on what Scottish independence will mean. I think of course that Scottish people know their own country best, and of course its their choice as to what happens. Though I think that you should realize chookie that there are implications for what will happen that go outside of Scotland itself. After all, if Scotland does leave that obviously is a very significant development in terms of the political settlement on these islands that is in force at present, and Scotland leaving the UK would have some political implications for England, Wales, but most importantly Northern Ireland, where a large segment of the community there identify with Scotland but also the Union, and that affects us here in the Republic. Then of course there are issues pertaining to the EU and the British Monarchy and all the rest. Personally I don't mind at all and Scots have every right to decide what they want (and I am sure almost everyone would have a similar view), but we do have to take these things into account, so you can be assured that the world will be watching what happens in Scotland over the next few years. I say enjoy the limelight.

The world is watching?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:45 pm
by Bryn Mawr
Galbally;755603 wrote: I think its interesting to actually get an outside opinion on what Scottish independence will mean. I think of course that Scottish people know their own country best, and of course its their choice as to what happens. Though I think that you should realize chookie that there are implications for what will happen that go outside of Scotland itself. After all, if Scotland does leave that obviously is a very significant development in terms of the political settlement on these islands that is in force at present, and Scotland leaving the UK would have some political implications for England, Wales, but most importantly Northern Ireland, where a large segment of the community there identify with Scotland but also the Union, and that affects us here in the Republic. Then of course there are issues pertaining to the EU and the British Monarchy and all the rest. Personally I don't mind at all and Scots have every right to decide what they want (and I am sure almost everyone would have a similar view), but we do have to take these things into account, so you can be assured that the world will be watching what happens in Scotland over the next few years. I say enjoy the limelight.


It would seriously distort the political map of the UK and, as happens every time you disrupt a steady state system, it would destabilise the region.

Give it a decade and things would settle down again but you have to be prepared for those ten years of disruption.

BTW, if Scotland makes a UDI do you imagine it would be followed by ales and Kernow?

The world is watching?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:13 pm
by Chookie
Gal, yourself and Bryn both make good points, but I would suggest that the break-up of the United Kingdom is a logical extension of membership of the EU. The UK is an outdated and now obsolete financial union which has had no benefit to the "Celtic fringe".

I'm always looking for external views on this subject as I'm a bit involved (like you didn't know). What caught my eye about this one is the reference to nuclear subs based in Scotland.

Some of the benefits of breaking up the UK, off the top of my are:-

No more farting about pretending to be a world power.

No more spending billions of pounds you don't have to support a position you lost years ago

No more kissing US presidential butt (see, I can be polite)

No more "British" imperialism

We can develop our own resources, in ways which suit us.

We will not be involved in idiotic wars (Iraq and Kosovo for examples)

More later.

The world is watching?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:18 pm
by Bryn Mawr
Chookie;755633 wrote: Gal, yourself and Bryn both make good points, but I would suggest that the break-up of the United Kingdom is a logical extension of membership of the EU. The UK is an outdated and now obsolete financial union which has had no benefit to the "Celtic fringe".

I'm always looking for external views on this subject as I'm a bit involved (like you didn't know). What caught my eye about this one is the reference to nuclear subs based in Scotland.

Some of the benefits of breaking up the UK, off the top of my are:-

No more farting about pretending to be a world power.

No more spending billions of pounds you don't have to support a position you lost years ago

No more kissing US presidential butt (see, I can be polite)

No more "British" imperialism

We can develop our own resources, in ways which suit us.

We will not be involved in idiotic wars (Iraq and Kosovo for examples)

More later.


Two points?

We haven't been a world power for sixty years

If you can find a way to avoid the bastards dragging us into idiotic wars then please let me know.

The world is watching?

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:47 pm
by spot
We could solve these tensions by being accepted as new states of the USA. Scotland would become the 22nd largest state in the Union, between Colorado and Minnesota. Wales would be the 31st largest, between Mississippi and Iowa. Northern Ireland would become the 39th, between Idaho and Nebraska.

You'd have to break England up because it's larger than any US state, we might make itEngland South East, the new 12th largest state

England Greater London, the new 13th largest state

England North West, the new 14th largest state

England East, the new 20th largest state

England West Midlands, the new 21st largest state

England Yorkshire and the Humber, the new 23rd largest state

England South West, the new 24th largest state

England East Midlands, the new 27th largest state

England North East, the new 34th largest state

There we are, that makes 11 new states in the USA and the flag would need 62 stars. I'm all in favour of that and it stops any minor disagreement we might have with Alex Salmond into the bargain.

The world is watching?

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:23 am
by Galbally
Chookie;755633 wrote: Gal, yourself and Bryn both make good points, but I would suggest that the break-up of the United Kingdom is a logical extension of membership of the EU. The UK is an outdated and now obsolete financial union which has had no benefit to the "Celtic fringe".

I'm always looking for external views on this subject as I'm a bit involved (like you didn't know). What caught my eye about this one is the reference to nuclear subs based in Scotland.

Some of the benefits of breaking up the UK, off the top of my are:-

No more farting about pretending to be a world power.

No more spending billions of pounds you don't have to support a position you lost years ago

No more kissing US presidential butt (see, I can be polite)

No more "British" imperialism

We can develop our own resources, in ways which suit us.

We will not be involved in idiotic wars (Iraq and Kosovo for examples)

More later.


Oh I am quite sure that there would be advantages for Scotland being independent, very significant ones, aside from the basic one of national self-confidence and the ability to decide ones own fate. But still there will be issues for the rest of us to deal with, not that it can't all be worked out and a new framework will I am sure work out fine. Though I do object to the term "Celtic Fringe" in the same way that people here don't call Britain the mainland, as the continent is the mainland and we are both separate Islands off that "mainland".

The world is watching?

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:25 pm
by Chookie
Bryn Mawr;755634 wrote: Two points?

We haven't been a world power for sixty years

I know that, you know that, hell, even unborn protozoa in the primordial swamp which is Manchester know that, but UK politicians still have delusions of adequacy.

If you can find a way to avoid the bastards dragging us into idiotic wars then please let me know.


This one's easy, when we bugger off, we're taking our money. This means that whatever government you lot have to contend with can't afford a war. (They can't anyway).

I suppose, if you lob.by long enough and hard enough, we (or our friends in Cymru and Kernow) might allow you protectorate status.