Here's A Lawsuit You Should Pay Attention To:

illuminati · Post by **illuminati** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:43 pm

Grand Theft Auto Firm Faces 'Murder Training' Lawsuit

Take Two, the publisher of the Grand Theft Auto game series, is once again facing a lawsuit that alleges its software was complicit in murder.

The legal action was filed on behalf of the families of police force staff shot dead in Fayette, Alabama in 2003, allegedly by one Devin Thompson.

Thompson was apprehended on suspicion of driving a stolen car. He is claimed by state prosecutors to have snatched a policeman's gun and shot officers Arnold Strickland and James Crump, and a dispatcher, Leslie Mealer.

The lawsuit maintains that Thompson's actions that day were inspired by the GTA series, games he is claimed to have played obsessively. The games amount to "training" for the alleged killings, the families' lawyer told local paper the Tuscaloosa News.

Thompson is now 18 years old, but at the time of the shootings he was 16. As such, the lawsuit claims, he should not have been sold GTA III and GTA: Vice City, which carry an M rating - for 'mature audience only', ie. anyone 17 years old or more. On that basis, the plaintiffs requested that the book also be thrown at retailers Wal-Mart and Gamestop for allegedly allowing Thompson to buy the games.

Read more of this trible at ---->

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/17 ... a_lawsuit/

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:53 pm

i've seen grand theft auto...it celebrates killing cops. TRAINS how to kill cops. you can only imagine my disgust and horror. BUT...none of these suits has EVER succeeded, and this one won't either. the individual who killed the cops bears 100% personal responsibility and i am sick to death of claims otherwise. go for the deep pockets is the name of the game. the families, who have my deep condolences for the loss of those fine officers, have no-one else to sue. the perp has nothing.

illuminati · Post by **illuminati** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:08 pm

Yes. At what point do we as a society blur the line between VIRTUAL and REALITY.

When we do, behavior in one world will have to mesh with behavior in the other.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:14 pm

:-5

Once again, a textbook example of this society's unwillingness to hold people accountable for their own actions. This pisses me off to no end. This little creep killed a cop. The parents should be held accountable to a point, because obviously they SUCK at parenting, but he was 16. When you're 16, you know right from wrong. Period. Blame the game, blame this, blame that, God forbid we actually BLAME THE PERSON WHO DID IT!!!

As a side note, does anyone here allow their kids to own this game? I won't let my son within 20 feet of it. LC, you are 100% correct. It trains and celebrates killing of cops, and should never have been created in the first place. I cringe to think of the minds that came up with this sort of "entertainment." :yh_angry

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:20 pm

illuminati wrote: Yes. At what point do we as a society blur the line between VIRTUAL and REALITY.
REALITY is two dead cops and one dead dispatcher.

illuminati · Post by **illuminati** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:37 pm

BabyRider wrote: :-5

Once again, a textbook example of this society's unwillingness to hold people accountable for their own actions. This pisses me off to no end. This little creep killed a cop. The parents should be held accountable to a point, because obviously they SUCK at parenting, but he was 16. When you're 16, you know right from wrong. Period. Blame the game, blame this, blame that, God forbid we actually BLAME THE PERSON WHO DID IT!!!

As a side note, does anyone here allow their kids to own this game? I won't let my son within 20 feet of it. LC, you are 100% correct. It trains and celebrates killing of cops, and should never have been created in the first place. I cringe to think of the minds that came up with this sort of "entertainment." :yh_angry
If you opened a school and taught cop killing, auto theft, and terrorism, would you be liable?

Yes.

If you produced and directed a movie on how to kill cops, would you be liable?

Yes.

Let's discuss the blurring between virtual and reality. This is not 1977 and Pong.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:47 pm

illuminati wrote:

This is not 1977 and Pong.
Ain't it a shame...

So it's your opinion that the game industry is liable for the murders? If so, does this make the killer exempt from responsibility? What about the parents who allowed the boy to play the game? While we're at it, let's hold ALL the maufacturers of the consoles responsible. Hey, maybe we can sue the TV stations who run the ads promoting the games. As long as we don't actually hold this poor, misunderstood, murdering S**t responsible.

illuminati · Post by **illuminati** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:59 pm

BabyRider wrote: Ain't it a shame...

So it's your opinion that the game industry is liable for the murders? If so, does this make the killer exempt from responsibility? What about the parents who allowed the boy to play the game? While we're at it, let's hold ALL the maufacturers of the consoles responsible. Hey, maybe we can sue the TV stations who run the ads promoting the games. As long as we don't actually hold this poor, misunderstood, murdering S**t responsible.

No, but the creators should be in the hot seat. Do you agree or disagree with my questions above?

I never said the kid or parents should not be responsible. You are jumping to conclusions.

Again, where do you draw the line? Is it okay to publish items that encourage this type of thing? If your child was murdered by a person who regularly attended meetings where people practiced murders and mayhem would you hold the instructors blameless? Your argument above says you will.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:15 pm

no-one here hates that despicable cop-killing manifesto more than i do...but now we're on the slippery slope of censorship. sticking to THIS case...the little criminal isn't even claiming the game made him do it (or the twinkies) but he will. ...it's the murdered officers' families. it is all about the money. period. let's see, pro wrestling made that huge hulk of a boy in florida kill a 5 year old girl. and zoloft made that 15 year old boy shoot his grandparents in the mouth...........i could go on for a week. :-5

rachelg · Post by **rachelg** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:24 pm

I'm for free speech more than most people I work with, but I don't consider a game that celebrates murder to fall in that category. I can't see how such a game was ever considered by a manufacturerer to produce or a retailer to sell. I wouldn't give the blame for this case to the creators of the game. To me, you are responsible for your own actions, but what I can't understand is the appeal of a game like this. I'm not into these types of games; my favorite game is bookworm, that animated scrabble type game. I hear guys talking about it though and I know it's popular, but why? :-3 I think this speaks poorly of our culture that this is considered a form of entertainment. What's next, a gang bang game, a pedophile game, a decapitating prisoners game?

illuminati · Post by **illuminati** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:31 pm

lady cop wrote: no-one here hates that despicable cop-killing manifesto more than i do...but now we're on the slippery slope of censorship. sticking to THIS case...the little criminal isn't even claiming the game made him do it (or the twinkies) but he will. ...it's the murdered officers' families. it is all about the money. period. let's see, pro wrestling made that huge hulk of a boy in florida kill a 5 year old girl. and zoloft made that 15 year old boy shoot his grandparents in the mouth...........i could go on for a week. :-5

No argument there. The slippery slope is always there and it is waiting patiently for every argument.

But, I posed two rhetorical questions and no one has answered them. I am not looking for a fight, just a discussion.

Just for the sake of argument, can anyone answer these?

If you opened a school and taught cop killing, auto theft, and terrorism, would you be liable?

If you produced and directed a movie on how to kill cops, would you be liable?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:51 pm

to answer both....you would have a civil cause of action. you may or may not win. the case cited here will not prevail. BECAUSE of the censorship argument. it's unwinnable. there ARE killing schools. they are just underground. one that springs to mind is the french foreign legion. then there's the armed forces. and SAS. MI6, CIA, and all police academies. as you say, not a fight here, but even though i hate what they (grand theft auto) espouse, i have to defend their right to espouse it. until there is case law and precedent. then i can cap their ass.

Post by **kensloft** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:43 pm

If there were a spate of killings that left a trail of dead cops all over the world then I would agree that the manufacturers should be charged and held accountable. However, that is not happening.

If some person decides that they want to try this out in real life then they have moved from fantasy to reality by their own motivation and should be held accountable for their actions.

The, "I didn't know the gun was loaded?" defense doesn't hold water! The devil made me do it runs a close second but still does no hold water.

Looking for that motivational spark that catapulted the wrong doer into his crime is all well and good but it has its drawbacks. Mainly, that it gives the killer an excuse to excuse themselves from feeling any blame for their crime.

The hyperbole that you use in trying to justify your argument is specious at best and criminal at worst. All you are doing is creating a scenario where some nut case can justify his actions by blaming someone else for his motivation. It is a game.

If someone decides to make the game real then it is their problem to deal with. The poor, little, misled youth doesn't have to live with the agony that his actions have perpetrated against innocent family members of the police, is not right! No matter how you add it up there is no excuse for killing anyone. All the game does is tell you that it can be done. It is wrong. There are no subliminal messages that are coning through the game so laying the blame on the manufacturer is nothing more than creating another stupid reason for trying to get away with murder..

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:31 am

Just a question, to this very interesting line of thought.

Do they have this problem in Japan? I mean most of these games are concieved and made by companies in Japan. They are sold there as well. I have yet to hear of a case in any other country besides the U.S. that these problems occur. Remember the school shooting in Arkansas? Doom and Duke Nukem were blamed for those.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:26 pm

Raven, you make an excellent point. (and now i should move this thread over to the gun control forum!) i know you are American although you live in England (i hope to be there soon:) ) and you know this is a gun culture. we've had so many conversations about that. the game itself as a cause is bollocks, it's grasping at straws by wrongful death attorneys. i HATE that game. but it didn't make him shoot. he shot because he's another deluded nutjob.~~~~~~~something that really bothers me, as in the recent courthouse shootings, is how the kid got the cop's gun...i just DON"T GET IT!!

our guns are snapped and strapped in at two points and we are trained until we bleed in weapon retention.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:35 am

I'll bet the cops really didnt want to pull them, due to the age of the criminal...no cop alive, wants to shoot a kid. But I'll also bet, due to their training, they had the snaps undone, just in case.

As for ours being a gun culture, yep. It is. But Japan is a samurai sword culture. Do they have cases where kids go amuck, killing each other with swords? It just makes me wonder, what is so unique to the states, that we have these kind of problems? Whats wrong with our kids? Why does the line between fantasy and reality blur? These games are distributed throughout the whole world. Every countries children play them. Hell, even I play them! (not the games under discussion, mind you) So if the games themselves arent to blame, then it's our kids. But why just ours?

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:01 am

They blame movies as well Raven, the Jamie Bulger case here in England was blamed on horror movies.

Not just your kids, just seems to happen more often over there.

Post by **kensloft** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:17 am

letha wrote: They blame movies as well Raven, the Jamie Bulger case here in England was blamed on horror movies.

Not just your kids, just seems to happen more often over there.
Try going through a school of Samurai with a blade swinging a la John Wayne and a school with guns. Lay odds the guns will win out. Hell you don't even have to be at the school.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:56 am

letha wrote: They blame movies as well Raven, the Jamie Bulger case here in England was blamed on horror movies.

Not just your kids, just seems to happen more often over there.
I remember reading about that!

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:03 pm

kensloft wrote: Try going through a school of Samurai with a blade swinging a la John Wayne and a school with guns. Lay odds the guns will win out. Hell you don't even have to be at the school.
Nope, Samurai swordsman naked in a church in South London, congregation of about 400, think it was 10 people he managed to slash before he was stopped... Oh and God told him to do it.

Post by **kensloft** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:05 pm

letha wrote: Nope, Samurai swordsman naked in a church in South London, congregation of about 400, think it was 10 people he managed to slash before he was stopped... Oh and God told him to do it.
No guns? It is a horrible thing to do but it is not a samurai school and no guns are evident.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

turbonium · Post by **turbonium** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:53 pm

Don't some of those rap groups celebrate killing cops? I think one vile rap act even had a song called Cop Killer....

But what can you do? It seems like another sign of a sick society.....

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:56 pm

turbonium wrote: Don't some of those rap groups celebrate killing cops? I think one vile rap act even had a song called Cop Killer....

But what can you do? It seems like another sign of a sick society..... :(yes they do, and it was discussed earlier in this thread in case you haven't had a chance to read it all.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:40 pm

Raven wrote: Just a question, to this very interesting line of thought.

Do they have this problem in Japan? I mean most of these games are concieved and made by companies in Japan. They are sold there as well. I have yet to hear of a case in any other country besides the U.S. that these problems occur. Remember the school shooting in Arkansas? Doom and Duke Nukem were blamed for those..

Ooooh Raven... It seems this is a American produced game that the Japanese don't like too much:

Japan State Bans 'Grand Theft Auto' Sales

May 31, 8:41 AM (ET)

TOKYO (AP) - A state in Japan has decided to ban a U.S. video game from being sold or rented to minors, after officials deemed it harmful and capable of inciting violence.

"Grand Theft Auto III," produced by U.S.-based Rockstar Games Inc., was introduced in Japan in September 2003 and has sold about 350,000 copies. It depicts random killing sprees in public places, cars being blown up and other acts of violence that officials fear teens might try to mimic, said Takahito Hayashi, a child welfare official.

The game will receive a "harmful" product label in Kanagawa prefecture, or state, where retailers will be barred from selling or renting the game to anyone under age 18. The game also will have to be displayed separately from other titles, he said

While other products have faced similar restrictions due to explicit sexual content, it is the first time Japan has placed such measures on game software because of violence, Hayashi said.

Osaka-based Capcom Co. Ltd., which distributes the game in Japan, refused to comment. Kanagawa prefecture, just south of Tokyo, includes major cities like Yokohama and Kawasaki.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:02 pm

Raven wrote: Just a question, to this very interesting line of thought.

Do they have this problem in Japan? I mean most of these games are concieved and made by companies in Japan. They are sold there as well. I have yet to hear of a case in any other country besides the U.S. that these problems occur. Remember the school shooting in Arkansas? Doom and Duke Nukem were blamed for those.Here is one Raven:

FULL STORY HERE

Youth sent to slammer for brutal graveyard beating of boy

OKINAWA, Okinawa -- A 17-year-old youth who killed a 13-year-old boy in a brutal "video game" style beating in an Okinawa Prefecture graveyard was handed a prison sentence

Related stories:

Teenage killers swore burial onlookers to silence

Okinawa teens admit planning punishment before killing

2 more teenagers nabbed in Okinawa boy's murder Teen kills, buries schoolmate in Okinawa cemetery

turbonium · Post by **turbonium** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:03 pm

lady cop wrote: yes they do, and it was discussed earlier in this thread in case you haven't had a chance to read it all.

I can't find rap groups discussed in this thread, LC. Am I having a blind moment?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:06 pm

turbonium wrote: I can't find rap groups discussed in this thread, LC. Am I having a blind moment?

no, of course not. i meant the cop-killing aspects of the game were mentioned. i don't think rap groups came up.

turbonium · Post by **turbonium** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:30 pm

lady cop wrote: no, of course not. i meant the cop-killing aspects of the game were mentioned. i don't think rap groups came up.

OK - I misunderstood your reply

My point was meant to express how other aspects of the entertainment industry, that cater to young people (such as rap groups), have purposely increased promoting the twisted violence towards the police. Movies like "Gone In 60 Seconds" and "2 Fast 2 Furious" also promote auto theft and street racing. I have a friend whose child's favorite movie was "Gone In 60 Seconds". After I watched it, I was disgusted with how it GLORIFIES these crimes - the criminals are the heroes in this stupid flick. I just shook my head that my friend would let her child watch this movie over and over.

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:14 am

the name of the rapper who put out "CopKilla" was Ice-T. Funny, he now plays a cop on "Law&Order:SVU"

I got $5 says his parents or someone in his family bought the game for him as a gift. "M" rating means no one under 17 can buy it, nothing about under17 playing it.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:50 pm

I personally own the game.I have played it and have enjoyed it because I HAVE A SINCE OF HUMOR!!!As for that derranged little punk,he should be locked up for the rest of his life.And my condolences to the people who were affected by this horrible tragedy.As for the game being to blame,Bull Sh!* Someone needed to give that kid a royal @S& whipping when he was growing up.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:01 pm

turbonium wrote: OK - I misunderstood your reply

My point was meant to express how other aspects of the entertainment industry, that cater to young people (such as rap groups), have purposely increased promoting the twisted violence towards the police. Movies like "Gone In 60 Seconds" and "2 Fast 2 Furious" also promote auto theft and street racing. I have a friend whose child's favorite movie was "Gone In 60 Seconds". After I watched it, I was disgusted with how it GLORIFIES these crimes - the criminals are the heroes in this stupid flick. I just shook my head that my friend would let her child watch this movie over and over.

OH,OK.So you didnt see the part were he tryed to turn his ways into something morale and people kidnapped his brother,I believe it was, and were going to kill him if they didnt get there money.I suppose you would have let your own family die because you dont want to steal some rich guys car that he could afford ten times over.What makes me sick is people who dont know when to fight and when not to.Did they harm anyone in stealing those cars?No.the only way they would have harmed anyone is because of the cops chasing them.WHOS THE HERO????

David Hill · Post by **David Hill** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:32 pm

Once again, a textbook example of this society's unwillingness to hold people accountable for their own actions. This pisses me off to no end. This little creep killed a cop. The parents should be held accountable to a point, because obviously they SUCK at parenting, but he was 16. When you're 16, you know right from wrong. Period. Blame the game, blame this, blame that, God forbid we actually BLAME THE PERSON WHO DID IT!!!

As a side note, does anyone here allow their kids to own this game? I won't let my son within 20 feet of it. LC, you are 100% correct. It trains and celebrates killing of cops, and should never have been created in the first place. I cringe to think of the minds that came up with this sort of "entertainment."

I own both GTA 3 and GTA vice city, i'm still as good as ever and I got them back when I was 14... but I've also got a level head on me...

Alfred · Post by **Alfred** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:53 am

i own GTA: San Andreas, i've completed it twice stolen tanks, killed cops and many other groups, participated in gang warfare, stolen other vehicles all while listening to F^(k the Police by NWA. and i'm 14. well 15 soon.

this doesn't mean i hate cops or have the urge to kill anyone at all, for me the killing stops when i switch off the console and stop playing. at some point that kid decided he was going to kill some poor cops and at that point he became completely liable for his own actions.

even the character in the game is sooner or later brought down for what he's done. do you think the kid cared that this would happen?

LottomagicZ4941 · Post by **LottomagicZ4941** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:22 am

illuminati wrote: If you opened a school and taught cop killing, auto theft, and terrorism, would you be liable?

Yes.

If you produced and directed a movie on how to kill cops, would you be liable?

Yes.

Let's discuss the blurring between virtual and reality. This is not 1977 and Pong.

I use to love video games. Don't care much for the "realistic" ones. Once the invaders became human the games went downhill.

There are still some good ones. Had this guy been playing Helix perhpas he wouldn't have ended up killing cops?

This guy/kid still chose to play violent games. If even only a fraction of people exposed turn to violence is it worth the risk? It is sad that a major retailer is selling this junk!!! Even sader that parents are letting kids have this junk. It should at least be hard for kids to get a hold of this stuff.

Lotto

http://com4.runboard.com/blifetheuniver ... inchat.t38

MagicZ4941A

chrisb84uk · Post by **chrisb84uk** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:25 am

I have to say that not only are parents seemingly taking less of a responsibility on the games that their kids play, but the shopkeepers as well.

I was in a certain game shop this morning, and heard one parent ask what good games could she buy for her young boy this Christmas, and the shopkeeper replied with at least 2 games that are 18 rated.

Now what kind of example is this setting!!

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:53 am

If blaming a game for someones moral uncertainties isn't a cop-out, I dont know what is.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:07 am

nah......that isnt it. It's the blurring line between fantasy role-play and reality thats the problem. Kids emulate who and what they admire.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:26 am

Raven wrote: nah......that isnt it. It's the blurring line between fantasy role-play and reality thats the problem. Kids emulate who and what they admire.

That is my point. If a parent raises their child so poorly that the child is capable of admiring such filth as a direct result illustrates the real issue, which is the parents inability to raise their child in a morale and appropriate manner.

Too most its just funny--to others I just simply pray for them.

Alfred · Post by **Alfred** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:32 pm

it gets boring after a while anyway.

ComfortablyNumb · Post by **ComfortablyNumb** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:50 pm

When Body Count and Ice T did 'Cop Killer' he was warned by the FBI that he would be locked up for incitement to violence against the authorities unless he took it off the album, which he did.

Grand Theft Auto is just the same so why hasn't that been banned? Kids shouln't have access to games like this.

LilacDragon · Post by **LilacDragon** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:47 am

Raven wrote: nah......that isnt it. It's the blurring line between fantasy role-play and reality thats the problem. Kids emulate who and what they admire.

What a cop-out. My 7 year old knows that video games, movies and t.v. shows are make believe. It is MY job to teach him morals.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:02 am

How can you teach a child morals when you cant teach them there are consequences to bad decisions? Do you go against the ruling government who says you cant correct your children? This generation coming up is the 'time out' gen. They dont know the meaning of restraint. It shows enourmously here in Britain.

Fibonacci · Post by **Fibonacci** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:48 pm

Raven wrote: How can you teach a child morals when you cant teach them there are consequences to bad decisions? Do you go against the ruling government who says you cant correct your children? This generation coming up is the 'time out' gen. They dont know the meaning of restraint. It shows enourmously here in Britain.

AMEN!!!!! Parents These Days Are Too Afraid To Discipline Their Children. That Lack Of Boundaries/ Limits Leads Directly To Problems Such As These!

These Games Have Rating Systems For A Reason.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:29 am

Fibonacci wrote: AMEN!!!!! Parents These Days Are Too Afraid To Discipline Their Children. That Lack Of Boundaries/ Limits Leads Directly To Problems Such As These!

These Games Have Rating Systems For A Reason.

Well that's the difference between "them" and me....

I wont hesitate to bust my kids @$$ if he acts the least bit distasteful in my own views...

Its not in what way you discipline your child, its how affective you are in demonstrating your authority which shows them how much you care about them in your own subtle way.

Fibonacci · Post by **Fibonacci** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:36 pm

K.Snyder wrote: Well that's the difference between "them" and me....

I wont hesitate to bust my kids @$$ if he acts the least bit distasteful in my own views...

Its not in what way you discipline your child, its how affective you are in demonstrating your authority which shows them how much you care about them in your own subtle way.

You are one of the few who Know What they're Doing.