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Is it a fare charge or just another way to tax the Motorist .:driving:

Fares pay for a service, it's hard to see the congestion charge as anything other than what it was announced to be from the beginning, a deterrent - it's definitely not a service of any sort. It dropped the number of private vehicles within the boundary by 20% so it seems to have been successful in achieving its intention. Consider it an auction of the fixed number of places on the most overcrowded roads in London among the larger number of people who want to put their cars on them. The more they just cough up the congestion charge the higher it needs to be set. When it's at the right level, the number of cars on the streets is a manageable number lower than gridlock.

spot;785228 wrote: Fares pay for a service, it's hard to see the congestion charge as anything other than what it was announced to be from the beginning, a deterrent - it's definitely not a service of any sort. It dropped the number of private vehicles within the boundary by 20% so it seems to have been successful in achieving its intention. Consider it an auction of the fixed number of places on the most overcrowded roads in London among the larger number of people who want to put their cars on them. The more they just cough up the congestion charge the higher it needs to be set. When it's at the right level, the number of cars on the streets is a manageable number lower than gridlock.


The number of cars does not appear to be much reduced after the initial dip mainly because the amount of public transport has not been increased (one of the promises made at the time if I recall) and so people have little choice.

Another tax I'd say - especially if bumped up to £25 / day with £200 / day for lorries.

When I payed my car Tax yesterday I thought...........what a con.It seems everywhere I go I am paying to use the road one way or the otherand yet I thought that is what my car tax was for.I have to use a car and indeed it is not a luxury.The petrol is just a joke now and every chance that somebody can make a quick buck out of the driver they do. I was in Chelmsford the other week.The only place I could get parked was in The Councils car park with only one space that I could find.The car next to me was over the dividing line and to get mine on I had to go a fraction over the one next to me also.I got a fine for that.........yes a fine for parking my car in a car park and paying.The car was slighty over that was all and even though I took pictures that showed why I had to park like that they didn't want to know.Seems there is no give and take any more............its all about how much money can be made out of the motorist and this country just sits back and takes what is thrown at it.

fuzzy butt;785245 wrote: So will it come down to only the rich being allowed to drive in london eventually? Everyone else will have to walk?You know what Fuzz.........I went down Brick Lane the other week.Its an area in the East End that was really down an out.Now its changed so much and cost me £8 an hour just to park in the road there...........joke ah?

One might think the underground system had disappeared overnight from the tone of this thread. Except for those very few occasions when the entrance to an underground station is shut for safety reasons there's a perfectly good way of travelling around London with exemplary reliability and speed for very little cost. If you're travelling between 11pm and 6am there's night buses instead.

spot;785503 wrote: One might think the underground system had disappeared overnight from the tone of this thread. Except for those very few occasions when the entrance to an underground station is shut for safety reasons there's a perfectly good way of travelling around London with exemplary reliability and speed for very little cost. If you're travelling between 11pm and 6am there's night buses instead.No spot I haven't forgotten that at all and if I could walk better and hadn't been mugged once on it who knows I may have been able to use it.

I'm moderately convinced that there's an exemption to both the parking and the congestion charge for travellers with specified debilities.

If everyone followed your lead nobody would use the system at all.

spot;785584 wrote: I'm moderately convinced that there's an exemption to both the parking and the congestion charge for travellers with specified debilities.

If everyone followed your lead nobody would use the system at all.Im not even going to answer that sad, pathetic remark.

You know, I don't set out to rub people up the wrong way. What on earth do you find distasteful about my post there?

The fewer car rides the nation takes the better, that seems a fair comment. Cars are unsafe compared to public transport, they endanger those in them and those outside them. I loathe cars.

If everyone followed your lead nobody would use public transport in London at all. That's inaccurate? It's true but it ought not to be said in polite circles?

Get your teeth out of my leg Carolly. My posts are unexceptionable.

Carolly wrote: Well let me tell you something Spot I am not going to be your little puppet that you can play with and belittle.... this girl aint playing.No, let's get this straight. You described my post as a "sad, pathetic remark" and I take exception to that. Either what I said was reasonable and accurate or it wasn't. When it comes to bullying people, Carolly, you've taken entirely unnecessary shots at me yourself in the past and I'd rather - as in the "sad, pathetic remark" comment - ask for an explanation than just let you kick me when you feel like it.

I have told you I have problems walking. This is due to my muscles wasting away as I was ill and unable to move and had to learn to walk again and still have problems.....I have also told you I was mugged on the underground some time ago and yet still you have to make sarcy remarks..........You want to turn a simple discussion into a row as you seem to enjoy that and after all you must always be right about everything and can never be wrong as your Spot. Well let me tell you something Spot I am not going to be your little puppet that you can play with and belittle anymore......and as for my teeth in your leg....tell you what lets see who makes the first nasty or sarcy remark to the other one on a thread and then we will see who has their teeth into the others leg.I just dont know why you have to start all this over the fact I CANT travel on the underground what other people can or cant do is upto them.

spot;785584 wrote: I'm moderately convinced that there's an exemption to both the parking and the congestion charge for travellers with specified debilities.

If everyone followed your lead nobody would use the system at all.If that isn't being sarcy what is.

My post "One might think the underground system had disappeared overnight from the tone of this thread" was a perfectly reasonable response to Fuzzy's "will it come down to only the rich being allowed to drive in london eventually? Everyone else will have to walk?" and Bryn's "the amount of public transport has not been increased", it's extreme of you to try to associate my comment with what you'd posted up to that point. Once you'd made the link I merely tried to point out the obvious, that the charges (unless I'm mistaken about the exemptions) don't even apply to you.

Carolly;785638 wrote: I have told you I have problems walking. This is due to my muscles wasting away as I was ill and unable to move and had to learn to walk again and still have problems.....I have also told you I was mugged on the underground some time ago and yet still you have to make sarcy remarks..........You want to turn a simple discussion into a row as you seem to enjoy that and after all you must always be right about everything and can never be wrong as your Spot. Well let me tell you something Spot I am not going to be your little puppet that you can play with and belittle anymore......and as for my teeth in your leg....tell you what lets see who makes the first nasty or sarcy remark to the other one on a thread and then we will see who has their teeth into the others leg.I just dont know why you have to start all this over the fact I CANT travel on the underground what other people can or cant do is upto them.


Carol, don't forget the minimum £4 pounds for a couple of stops ...it's daylight robbery . Who would want to use the tube if they could use a car instead . Why should we apologise for using Cars, what about the police and politicans who who use 4x4s ...it seems its ok for them and not us .

yep I agree its another tax money maker for the government.

Its ok to say use public transport but for some its not that easy. If you use the tube for transport, you may then have to get buses etc to get to your workplace which all adds time onto your day.

End of the day, whether you loathe cars or not Spot, we buy our cars, tax them, insure them and MOT them which costs a pretty packet but we do that for our own comfort and ease. Why then should we have to pay extortionate congestion charges. Its ruining alot of peoples lively hoods. My brother who lives in Hove, has a mate who runs his own delivery company, due to the new boundaries Livingstone has introduced, it will cost him more money to drive through than he makes so hes selling up and moving to Ireland. That's totally not fair. I have used the tube in London and I hated it, I felt unsafe and totally vunerable. I definately wouldnt use it if I was having to travel alone.

Their are folk like Carol who for disibility/health reasons whom are unable to use public transport, again why should they get hammered with congestion charges.

The Blue Badge scheme provides a range of parking concessions for people with severe mobility problems who have difficulty using public transport. The scheme operates throughout the UK.

The concessions apply to on-street parking and include free use of parking meters and pay-and-display bays. Badge holders may also be exempt from limits on parking times imposed on others and can park for up to three hours on single and double yellow lines as long as they are not causing an obstruction (except where there is a ban on loading or unloading or other restrictions).

You don’t have to pay the Congestion Charge if your vehicle is exempt from Vehicle Excise Duty (Road Tax). Vehicles registered with the DVLA as road tax classes TC78 (Disabled) or TC85 (Disabled passenger vehicle) are automatically exempt from paying the charge.

If you are a Blue Badge holder who does pay Vehicle Excise Duty (Road Tax) you are eligible to apply for a 100% discount for up to two vehicles per charging day. It may still be worth registering so that you can use the 100% discount when friends, relatives, carers etc. are driving you into or within the Congestion Charging zone.

As for "the minimum £4 pounds for a couple of stops ...it's daylight robbery", the London fare guide's at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/ ... -01-02.pdf and the capped maximum charge for all bus and underground use in the inner two zones is £6.30 for the entire day, or £4.80 if you avoid the rush period. I think that's a bargain.

spot;785503 wrote: One might think the underground system had disappeared overnight from the tone of this thread. Except for those very few occasions when the entrance to an underground station is shut for safety reasons there's a perfectly good way of travelling around London with exemplary reliability and speed for very little cost. If you're travelling between 11pm and 6am there's night buses instead.


It's OK if you're travelling during the off-peak but in the rush hour it's a different story - no spare capacity in the system to take up any significant number of ex-drivers.

pantsonfire321@aol.com;785683 wrote: Carol, don't forget the minimum £4 pounds for a couple of stops ...it's daylight robbery . Who would want to use the tube if they could use a car instead . Why should we apologise for using Cars, what about the police and politicans who who use 4x4s ...it seems its ok for them and not us .


Sorry, it's generally £1.50 off peak or £2.00 rush hour within Zones 1 and 2 with a maximum of £4.00 per trip.

Within Central London it is madness using a car if you don't have to - faster to cycle or tube (or even walk in rush hour).

None of the above excuses milking car drivers for all you can screw out of them.

Bryn Mawr;785969 wrote: Sorry, it's generally £1.50 off peak or £2.00 rush hour within Zones 1 and 2 with a maximum of £4.00 per trip.

Within Central London it is madness using a car if you don't have to - faster to cycle or tube (or even walk in rush hour).

None of the above excuses milking car drivers for all you can screw out of them.


:o Sorry i've not been on the Tube in a heck of a long time (couple of years infact)



I know a daily/weekly/monthly pass is more economical but i still think it's a ripoff and very unsafe (my other half uses it for work when he can't park in London so i'm not talking totally out of my backside )and since the tube bombing i wouldn't even consider using it again .

I just think the congestion charge is another way to milk the motorist (just like the money they make out of smoking) .

pantsonfire321@aol.com;785223 wrote: Is it a fare charge or just another way to tax the Motorist .:driving:This week's RAC "20th Report on Motoring" indicates the extent to which a perception of higher motoring costs is merely psychological and not real. I take it you'll trust the RAC?The cost of motoring has fallen by 18% in real terms over the past 20 years, despite the price of fuel rising by 210% in that time, an RAC report says. The motoring group takes inflation into account and says cars are now cheaper overall and need less money spent on them than they did two decades ago.

But 60% of 1,116 people surveyed actually thought higher costs were the biggest change in motoring since 1988.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7496381.stm