BH:-6
Of course the fact that I find that particular doctrine incorrect does not make it so.
That being said I will quote J. D. Hall quoting Dorothy L. Sayers.
"God wanted to damn everybody, but his vindictive sadism was sated by the crucifixion of his own Son, who was quite innocent, and, therefore, a particularly attractive victim. He now only damns people who don't follow Christ or who have never heard of him." pg. 136, "God and Human Suffering", J. D. Hall.
This does raise the question of what kind of God is this? He was so angry that he demanded blood even if it was one closest to him. Christianity is not based on human sacrifice. That was the Aztecs and the Incas.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
There are of course three approaches to justice in the Bible; criminal justice, procedural justice and social justice. It always amazes me that some zero in on only one kind where Amos was concerned about social justice and so was Jesus. This is just another example of picking and choosing. Borg.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
One thing I have Learned about the Salvation offered in the Bible, is that it is how God choose to bring humanity into existance through weakness and suffering, which later will develop into strength and no more suffering. You just have to learn what you are exposed to, and why, if you are able to comprehend. For example, I have learned that many unbelievers are interested in hearing about the Salvation of all, I have also learned that when Christians enter into that conversation, they try to kill it, because they don't believe in the salvation of all. So I rarely enjoy conversations with Christians, they have a mindset that I just can't get with. And I don't want to get with it. In my studies of the bible, I view Christianity as the greatest threat to Salvation that exist. An interesting paradox, they very people who would like the world to think they represent God, are really not representing the Salvation of the Bible. So when the bible discusses deception as being powerful, I believe it, espically when I can see it for myself.
I Like Lamatations 3:31-32;" For the Lord willnot reject forever." This cancels out any belief in eternal hell, because if such a place exsisted, that would mean that God rejected those people forever. But the bible shows me that God does not reject forever. Thats why I do not listen to Christians, they are not teaching what is in the bible. Vs.32;" For If the Lord causes greif, then he will have compassion according to his abundant kindness." God will " Cause Greif", he most certainly will and the bible shows that, but he has his reasons for doing that, and those reasons ALWAYS result in the righteousness of the person as Gods compassion is extended to them.
And I want to go into that. Peace.
I Like Lamatations 3:31-32;" For the Lord willnot reject forever." This cancels out any belief in eternal hell, because if such a place exsisted, that would mean that God rejected those people forever. But the bible shows me that God does not reject forever. Thats why I do not listen to Christians, they are not teaching what is in the bible. Vs.32;" For If the Lord causes greif, then he will have compassion according to his abundant kindness." God will " Cause Greif", he most certainly will and the bible shows that, but he has his reasons for doing that, and those reasons ALWAYS result in the righteousness of the person as Gods compassion is extended to them.
And I want to go into that. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
I think I have made it obvious by now that I believe in the bible, which is really a book about Salvation and creation. The conception of the bible is stunning to me, how it was conceived is simply magical. I hold a certain foundness for writing, but just how the bible was written impresses me. It was written by some 40 different Authors who lived over a span of 1500 years, most of whom didnot know each other and didnot compare notes. Yet its cohesion is stunning. Most of these writers held different occupations and none of them were professional writers. They lived in different places and each had different characthers. And Archaeology has unearthed so much that literally proves the bible as authentic, that it is a proven historical book.
It is the message of the bible that many are pessimistic about. Full of optimistic hope, people instead view Salvation with a pestimistic aittitude, which is really a form of unbelief. And I want to touch on that some. Peace.
It is the message of the bible that many are pessimistic about. Full of optimistic hope, people instead view Salvation with a pestimistic aittitude, which is really a form of unbelief. And I want to touch on that some. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
In Lamentations 3:22 is the view of God that I get from the bible. It says that Gods Loving Kindness never ceases, it never stops, that his compassions NEVER fail. I think this is how God really is, and the bible has shifted my belief in that area. So I don't worry about people who do not believe in God, nor feel any impulse to convince or condemn them.
In vs. 31-32;" For the Lord willnot Reject Forever", this verse cancels out this horrid belief in eternal punishing, because for eternal punishing to exist, God must reject these humans , for some reason, forever. Vs. 32;" For if he causes grief, then he will have compassion according to HIS abundant Lovingkindness." Two things are evident here, that God will actually cause suffering, and that he will have compassion which will show his true intent, Kindness, and this seems to be a contridiction.
In verses 1-13 Jeremiah literally reveals how God has driven him into Darkness, repeatedly turned against him all day long, caused his skin and bones to waste away, literally broken his bones, caused bitterness and hardship to fall on him. He trapped him in situations that he couldnot get out, and shut out his prayers. Blocked his ways and MADE him crooked. This is what God did to this man, and he is doing this to this world. This helped me to understand Romans 11:32 much better;" For God has shut up ALL in disobedience." But why? " In order that he will show MERCY to them ALL."
This is the real Pathology of God, and the real message about this God in the Bible. And I want to touch on that some. Peace.
In vs. 31-32;" For the Lord willnot Reject Forever", this verse cancels out this horrid belief in eternal punishing, because for eternal punishing to exist, God must reject these humans , for some reason, forever. Vs. 32;" For if he causes grief, then he will have compassion according to HIS abundant Lovingkindness." Two things are evident here, that God will actually cause suffering, and that he will have compassion which will show his true intent, Kindness, and this seems to be a contridiction.
In verses 1-13 Jeremiah literally reveals how God has driven him into Darkness, repeatedly turned against him all day long, caused his skin and bones to waste away, literally broken his bones, caused bitterness and hardship to fall on him. He trapped him in situations that he couldnot get out, and shut out his prayers. Blocked his ways and MADE him crooked. This is what God did to this man, and he is doing this to this world. This helped me to understand Romans 11:32 much better;" For God has shut up ALL in disobedience." But why? " In order that he will show MERCY to them ALL."
This is the real Pathology of God, and the real message about this God in the Bible. And I want to touch on that some. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Mickiel:-6
My background and formal studies are in biblical history, translation, interpretation, some theology, the study of the history of the Bible as opposed to biblical history.
The Bible is not an historical book. It is primarily a religious book written in a particular ancient style called midrash. This is also a style of interpretation. Midrash comes from the very people who wrote the Bible. This writing style makes a great deal of use of metaphor, in its broadest sense, and uses a prior important event in defining a newer event. Such a style is used to show the importance of a newer event. For example the story of Joshua crossing the Jordan on dry land was written that way to show the importance of the entrance into the promised land. This story relies on the most important Hebrew story of all, the escape from the promised land. The Exodus story is itself a myth but probably based on the expulsion of the Hyksos from the Nile delta.
Archaeology does not support the contention that the Bible is an historical book. It does support that there are kernels of history spread throughout. History does not support the historical accuracy of the Bible. It was not written to be taken literally. That was not the intention of the writers.
Shalom
Ted:-6
My background and formal studies are in biblical history, translation, interpretation, some theology, the study of the history of the Bible as opposed to biblical history.
The Bible is not an historical book. It is primarily a religious book written in a particular ancient style called midrash. This is also a style of interpretation. Midrash comes from the very people who wrote the Bible. This writing style makes a great deal of use of metaphor, in its broadest sense, and uses a prior important event in defining a newer event. Such a style is used to show the importance of a newer event. For example the story of Joshua crossing the Jordan on dry land was written that way to show the importance of the entrance into the promised land. This story relies on the most important Hebrew story of all, the escape from the promised land. The Exodus story is itself a myth but probably based on the expulsion of the Hyksos from the Nile delta.
Archaeology does not support the contention that the Bible is an historical book. It does support that there are kernels of history spread throughout. History does not support the historical accuracy of the Bible. It was not written to be taken literally. That was not the intention of the writers.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
I have seen Christians time and time again trying to prove that Salvation is only for those who " Accept God", believe in him and obey him. I wonder to myself what bible are they reading, or how are they interpiting God. In Isaiah 65:1 listen to what God himself has said, not those who believe in him, but Gods own words;"I permitted myself to be sought by those who didnot ask for me; I permitted myself to be found by those who didnot seek me. I said, here I am, here I am, to a whole nation which didnot call on my name."
Here God saves a whole nation of people who rejected him, not just one day of rejection, but continually rejecting him. These people provoked God, disobeyed him, I mean provoked him face to face, vs.3. And yet God permitted them to find him. Look, this is how God really is. This is the real God, and its right here in your bible, and I want to show you much more Hope that is in there. Peace.
Here God saves a whole nation of people who rejected him, not just one day of rejection, but continually rejecting him. These people provoked God, disobeyed him, I mean provoked him face to face, vs.3. And yet God permitted them to find him. Look, this is how God really is. This is the real God, and its right here in your bible, and I want to show you much more Hope that is in there. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Mickiel
When you finish the scripture you referred to it proves that God will pour out His righteous judgment on those who do not serve Him
The Righteousness of God’s Judgment
1 “I was sought by those who did not ask for Me;
I was found by those who did not seek Me.
I said, ‘Here I am, here I am,’
To a nation that was not called by My name.
2 I have stretched out My hands all day long to a rebellious people,
Who walk in a way that is not good,
According to their own thoughts;
3 A people who provoke Me to anger continually to My face;
Who sacrifice in gardens,
And burn incense on altars of brick;
4 Who sit among the graves,
And spend the night in the tombs;
Who eat swine’s flesh,
And the broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
5 Who say, ‘Keep to yourself,
Do not come near me,
For I am holier than you!’
These are smoke in My nostrils,
A fire that burns all the day.
6 “ Behold, it is written before Me:
I will not keep silence, but will repay—
Even repay into their bosom—
7 Your iniquities and the iniquities of your fathers together,”
Says the LORD,
“ Who have burned incense on the mountains
And blasphemed Me on the hills;
Therefore I will measure their former work into their bosom.”
8 Thus says the LORD:
“ As the new wine is found in the cluster,
And one says, ‘Do not destroy it,
For a blessing is in it,’
So will I do for My servants’ sake,
That I may not destroy them all.
9 I will bring forth descendants from Jacob,
And from Judah an heir of My mountains;
My elect shall inherit it,
And My servants shall dwell there.
10 Sharon shall be a fold of flocks,
And the Valley of Achor a place for herds to lie down,
For My people who have sought Me.
11 “ But you are those who forsake the LORD,
Who forget My holy mountain,
Who prepare a table for Gad,[a]
And who furnish a drink offering for Meni.
12 Therefore I will number you for the sword,
And you shall all bow down to the slaughter;
Because, when I called, you did not answer;
When I spoke, you did not hear,
But did evil before My eyes,
And chose that in which I do not delight.”
God Bless
When you finish the scripture you referred to it proves that God will pour out His righteous judgment on those who do not serve Him
The Righteousness of God’s Judgment
1 “I was sought by those who did not ask for Me;
I was found by those who did not seek Me.
I said, ‘Here I am, here I am,’
To a nation that was not called by My name.
2 I have stretched out My hands all day long to a rebellious people,
Who walk in a way that is not good,
According to their own thoughts;
3 A people who provoke Me to anger continually to My face;
Who sacrifice in gardens,
And burn incense on altars of brick;
4 Who sit among the graves,
And spend the night in the tombs;
Who eat swine’s flesh,
And the broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
5 Who say, ‘Keep to yourself,
Do not come near me,
For I am holier than you!’
These are smoke in My nostrils,
A fire that burns all the day.
6 “ Behold, it is written before Me:
I will not keep silence, but will repay—
Even repay into their bosom—
7 Your iniquities and the iniquities of your fathers together,”
Says the LORD,
“ Who have burned incense on the mountains
And blasphemed Me on the hills;
Therefore I will measure their former work into their bosom.”
8 Thus says the LORD:
“ As the new wine is found in the cluster,
And one says, ‘Do not destroy it,
For a blessing is in it,’
So will I do for My servants’ sake,
That I may not destroy them all.
9 I will bring forth descendants from Jacob,
And from Judah an heir of My mountains;
My elect shall inherit it,
And My servants shall dwell there.
10 Sharon shall be a fold of flocks,
And the Valley of Achor a place for herds to lie down,
For My people who have sought Me.
11 “ But you are those who forsake the LORD,
Who forget My holy mountain,
Who prepare a table for Gad,[a]
And who furnish a drink offering for Meni.
12 Therefore I will number you for the sword,
And you shall all bow down to the slaughter;
Because, when I called, you did not answer;
When I spoke, you did not hear,
But did evil before My eyes,
And chose that in which I do not delight.”
God Bless
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
A quote from "The Heart of Christianity", Marcus Borg, pg76.
"God as the lawgiver and judge is the God of "works" that Paul and Luther and theProtestant Reformation in general rejected. Instead they affirmed radical grace: God's acceptance of us is unconditional not dependent upon something we believe or do. But radical grace has most often been too radical for most Christians. We most often put conditions on God's grace: God accepts you if . . . And whenever an "if" clause is added, grace becomes conditional and ceases to be grace.
An important clarification: unconditional grace is not about how we get to heaven or who goes to heaven. The notion that salvation is primarily about "going to heaven" is a distortion; and when it is seen as primary, the notion of unconditional grace leads to the notion that everybody gets to go to heaven, regardless of their life and faith. However, unconditional grace is not about the afterlife, but the basis for our relationship with God in this life. Is the basis for our life with God law or grace, requirements and rewards or relationship and transformation? Grace affirms the latter."
This is not to comment on any afterlife. Our belief and hope as Christians is that there is more than the here and now. Christianity is about our relationship with God. Leave worrying about the afterlife to God. That is His purview.
Shalom
Ted:-6
"God as the lawgiver and judge is the God of "works" that Paul and Luther and theProtestant Reformation in general rejected. Instead they affirmed radical grace: God's acceptance of us is unconditional not dependent upon something we believe or do. But radical grace has most often been too radical for most Christians. We most often put conditions on God's grace: God accepts you if . . . And whenever an "if" clause is added, grace becomes conditional and ceases to be grace.
An important clarification: unconditional grace is not about how we get to heaven or who goes to heaven. The notion that salvation is primarily about "going to heaven" is a distortion; and when it is seen as primary, the notion of unconditional grace leads to the notion that everybody gets to go to heaven, regardless of their life and faith. However, unconditional grace is not about the afterlife, but the basis for our relationship with God in this life. Is the basis for our life with God law or grace, requirements and rewards or relationship and transformation? Grace affirms the latter."
This is not to comment on any afterlife. Our belief and hope as Christians is that there is more than the here and now. Christianity is about our relationship with God. Leave worrying about the afterlife to God. That is His purview.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
The Bible continues to shift gears in my belief, because I have learned to listen to it, and not to men. In Hebrews 8:11-12;" And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, and everyone his brother, saying Know the Lord, For they ALL shall know me, from the least to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more." Here again is the message of Universal Salvation that includes everyone. From the least of us to the greatest of us, we all will one day know God. This is the destiny of humanity.
And God will be merciful to us all, and he himself has said that he willnot even remember our sins, THAT is the final judgement of God on humanity. These are the very words of God, on these, Gods word, lay the Hope of all of humanity. And I want to show you more. Peace.
And God will be merciful to us all, and he himself has said that he willnot even remember our sins, THAT is the final judgement of God on humanity. These are the very words of God, on these, Gods word, lay the Hope of all of humanity. And I want to show you more. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Mickiel:-6
I must disagree that these are the very words of God. They are the very earthly words of the writers.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I must disagree that these are the very words of God. They are the very earthly words of the writers.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Ted;852271 wrote: Mickiel:-6
I must disagree that these are the very words of God. They are the very earthly words of the writers.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Well I read it as God speaking;Hebrews 8:8 " Behold the days are comming, " Says the Lord", vs.8-13 are God speaking, not men. He said " I" will effect a New Covenant, " I" will put my laws into their Minds, " I" will write them on their Hearts and " I" will be their God, " I" will forgive and remember their Sins no more. Can you explain to me what writer can be a God, what man can open human hearts and minds, what writer in the bible can forgive the sins of people?
No, God is going to do this, and only God can do it. Putting laws into minds and hearts , is an actual opening of the human Spirit to receive Gods Spirit. God will put them there, because they were not there before, he will forgive their sins, because there will be plenty of them to forgive. You don't see this as God speaking because you don't believe in God doing it for sinners and lawless people. The Old covenant was full of " Fault", verse 7 proves that;" For if the first Covenant was faultless, there would be no need for a second one." Our eternal redemption was obtained by Christ, who died " For All." Christians just like to think our redemption was obtained by them, and that humans must individually die for themselves and work out their own Salvation.
And I will go into that error. Peace.
I must disagree that these are the very words of God. They are the very earthly words of the writers.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Well I read it as God speaking;Hebrews 8:8 " Behold the days are comming, " Says the Lord", vs.8-13 are God speaking, not men. He said " I" will effect a New Covenant, " I" will put my laws into their Minds, " I" will write them on their Hearts and " I" will be their God, " I" will forgive and remember their Sins no more. Can you explain to me what writer can be a God, what man can open human hearts and minds, what writer in the bible can forgive the sins of people?
No, God is going to do this, and only God can do it. Putting laws into minds and hearts , is an actual opening of the human Spirit to receive Gods Spirit. God will put them there, because they were not there before, he will forgive their sins, because there will be plenty of them to forgive. You don't see this as God speaking because you don't believe in God doing it for sinners and lawless people. The Old covenant was full of " Fault", verse 7 proves that;" For if the first Covenant was faultless, there would be no need for a second one." Our eternal redemption was obtained by Christ, who died " For All." Christians just like to think our redemption was obtained by them, and that humans must individually die for themselves and work out their own Salvation.
And I will go into that error. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Mickiel:-6
The history of the Bible is very long and complicated. I could go into that at great length. However to give a short answer, the Bible was not dictated by God. The Bible is man's reaction to his experiences of the Divine. The prophets believed that God was speaking through them and thus they could write "I".
If the first covenant was faulty and God is all of the "omn's" than how is it that God made a mistake?
I have no problem with the death and resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection part is a metaphor for the inexplicable experience of the continued experience of the presence of Jesus. This experience continues to this day. It has been part of my experience. I accept the real presence of our Lord.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The history of the Bible is very long and complicated. I could go into that at great length. However to give a short answer, the Bible was not dictated by God. The Bible is man's reaction to his experiences of the Divine. The prophets believed that God was speaking through them and thus they could write "I".
If the first covenant was faulty and God is all of the "omn's" than how is it that God made a mistake?
I have no problem with the death and resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection part is a metaphor for the inexplicable experience of the continued experience of the presence of Jesus. This experience continues to this day. It has been part of my experience. I accept the real presence of our Lord.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Ted;853175 wrote: Mickiel:-6
The history of the Bible is very long and complicated. I could go into that at great length. However to give a short answer, the Bible was not dictated by God. The Bible is man's reaction to his experiences of the Divine. The prophets believed that God was speaking through them and thus they could write "I".
If the first covenant was faulty and God is all of the "omn's" than how is it that God made a mistake?
I have no problem with the death and resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection part is a metaphor for the inexplicable experience of the continued experience of the presence of Jesus. This experience continues to this day. It has been part of my experience. I accept the real presence of our Lord.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I totally disagree with you. I totally reject what you are saying, it is absolutely untrue. For you to say such a thing, is simply foolish, and I no longer hold any intrest in what you have to say. I really don't like speaking with people who cannot admit when they are wrong. It was nice meeting you, but I have other intrest in finishing this post, than a dialog with you. Peace.
The history of the Bible is very long and complicated. I could go into that at great length. However to give a short answer, the Bible was not dictated by God. The Bible is man's reaction to his experiences of the Divine. The prophets believed that God was speaking through them and thus they could write "I".
If the first covenant was faulty and God is all of the "omn's" than how is it that God made a mistake?
I have no problem with the death and resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection part is a metaphor for the inexplicable experience of the continued experience of the presence of Jesus. This experience continues to this day. It has been part of my experience. I accept the real presence of our Lord.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I totally disagree with you. I totally reject what you are saying, it is absolutely untrue. For you to say such a thing, is simply foolish, and I no longer hold any intrest in what you have to say. I really don't like speaking with people who cannot admit when they are wrong. It was nice meeting you, but I have other intrest in finishing this post, than a dialog with you. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Mickiel:-6
That is an opinion to which you are entitled. Obviously you are not interested in a discussion.
Shalom
Ted:-6
That is an opinion to which you are entitled. Obviously you are not interested in a discussion.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Mickiel:-6
It is time to realize that not all Christians think alike. There are many opinions around the world concerning Christianity. BTW you did not answer my question on how it came about that God produced a mistake.
Shalom
Ted:-6
It is time to realize that not all Christians think alike. There are many opinions around the world concerning Christianity. BTW you did not answer my question on how it came about that God produced a mistake.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Ted;855141 wrote: Mickiel:-6
It is time to realize that not all Christians think alike. There are many opinions around the world concerning Christianity. BTW you did not answer my question on how it came about that God produced a mistake.
Shalom
Ted:-6
This may be the best christian statement to date. Thanks Ted.
It is time to realize that not all Christians think alike. There are many opinions around the world concerning Christianity. BTW you did not answer my question on how it came about that God produced a mistake.
Shalom
Ted:-6
This may be the best christian statement to date. Thanks Ted.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Ted;855141 wrote: Mickiel:-6
It is time to realize that not all Christians think alike. There are many opinions around the world concerning Christianity. BTW you did not answer my question on how it came about that God produced a mistake.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Another thing Ted, I have to admit that I like Mickiel's approach to the divine. It's a great way to percieve God.
It is time to realize that not all Christians think alike. There are many opinions around the world concerning Christianity. BTW you did not answer my question on how it came about that God produced a mistake.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Another thing Ted, I have to admit that I like Mickiel's approach to the divine. It's a great way to percieve God.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
YZGI;855182 wrote: Another thing Ted, I have to admit that I like Mickiel's approach to the divine. It's a great way to percieve God.
Well the bible has shifted many gears in my mind , and most of the thrust of this change of direction, has moved me away from the traditional christian view of God and their interpitation of the bible. They have literally dominated the view of God and the bible, and I am not on that path anymore. I don't like what christians have done with the bible, nor do I agree with their interpitation of it. Thats why I cannot substain a conversation with them, because eventaully I begin to " Throw up" what they are saying. It kind of regurgitates me, so I try to kindly distance myself from that.
I am into Salvation now, it turns me on. It is addictive and alluring, as is the bible to me. Its message of Salvation is intriquing and magnificant, what Jesus did is truly a marvelous thing to read about. I know that there are many groups who try to monopolize Jesus and the bible, as if it is theirs alone. They try to do the same thing with Salvation, as if their religion is the door to heaven, and not Jesus. Men, like Ushers, try to control that door, as if its up to their church who will understand God and benefit from Jesus Death.
I have actually learned more about God, from God. And I kind of like that. The more I distance myself from men, the more the bible opens itself up to me. So I do not need or allow others to teach me about it. I can only tolerate certain views of God so far, and then no further. And what usually turns me off the most, is the tendency of some to place so many of humanity into this eternal punishing hell, and to teach this is Gods will. That belief holds no part of me, I am free of the belief that limits Gods Salvation. And it is a true freedom to see the Forgiveness of God in its entirity and fullness. To see Gods Salvation, his Heart, his Grace, his real plan to include every last one of us inspite of our unbelief and many, many sins, I tell you is a frigthening incredible thing to even begin to comprehend. Peace.
Well the bible has shifted many gears in my mind , and most of the thrust of this change of direction, has moved me away from the traditional christian view of God and their interpitation of the bible. They have literally dominated the view of God and the bible, and I am not on that path anymore. I don't like what christians have done with the bible, nor do I agree with their interpitation of it. Thats why I cannot substain a conversation with them, because eventaully I begin to " Throw up" what they are saying. It kind of regurgitates me, so I try to kindly distance myself from that.
I am into Salvation now, it turns me on. It is addictive and alluring, as is the bible to me. Its message of Salvation is intriquing and magnificant, what Jesus did is truly a marvelous thing to read about. I know that there are many groups who try to monopolize Jesus and the bible, as if it is theirs alone. They try to do the same thing with Salvation, as if their religion is the door to heaven, and not Jesus. Men, like Ushers, try to control that door, as if its up to their church who will understand God and benefit from Jesus Death.
I have actually learned more about God, from God. And I kind of like that. The more I distance myself from men, the more the bible opens itself up to me. So I do not need or allow others to teach me about it. I can only tolerate certain views of God so far, and then no further. And what usually turns me off the most, is the tendency of some to place so many of humanity into this eternal punishing hell, and to teach this is Gods will. That belief holds no part of me, I am free of the belief that limits Gods Salvation. And it is a true freedom to see the Forgiveness of God in its entirity and fullness. To see Gods Salvation, his Heart, his Grace, his real plan to include every last one of us inspite of our unbelief and many, many sins, I tell you is a frigthening incredible thing to even begin to comprehend. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Mickiel;856222 wrote: To see Gods Salvation, his Heart, his Grace, his real plan to include every last one of us inspite of our unbelief and many, many sins, I tell you is a frigthening incredible thing to even begin to comprehend. Peace.
What is frightening and incredible to comprehend is that if you have studied the bible as you say you have that you could find such a doctrine in there anywhere.
" John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.â€
Bobby
What is frightening and incredible to comprehend is that if you have studied the bible as you say you have that you could find such a doctrine in there anywhere.
" John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.â€
Bobby
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
I want to go into the true nature of God, which in effect, reveals the true scope of Salvation. Jesus came to do Gods will, not his own, so the Father God is the True source of Salvation. God is serious about the things he has promised, and they will get done. Belief or unbelief in God has absolutely nothing to do with his will, God is going to do what he is going to do, illreguardless of what we do.
In 2Pet. 3:9;" The Lord is not slow about his Promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not Wishing for any to Perish but for All to come to repentance." This is how God is, he does not, has not, willed that any would Perish, but he HAS Willed, or Wished, that All come to repentance. This means that God does not Wish, which is Will, for any to be lost eternally. The Question is NOT that he has not Wished for All to be saved, but does his Wish carry the kind of Power and Weight To save everyone? Which I think is rediculus to even ask. Of course God has the Power to accomplish ANYTHING that he wishes.
Humanity is very fortunate that God " Wishes for All humans to be Saved", I believe that mere Wish of his , is the literal garentee of all of humanity being saved. But I only see this because I believe in Gods Power. In my view, what he wishes or desires, is just a done deal. In Job 23:13;" But God is Unique and who can turn him? What his Soul Desires that he does." He desires for All to come to Repentance. In 1Tim.2:4;" God Desires for All men to be Saved and to come to understand the truth about him." This is what God desires, its what hes going to do. Many believers in him don't believe or desire for him to do it, but God does as he Pleases concerning the Salvation of humanity, not what believers in him want him to do.
Psalms 115:3;" But our God is in the Heavens; He does whatever he Pleases." He wishes for All to be Saved, he desires for All to be Saved, he DOES whatever he Pleases! This is very simple and clear and it describes how God really is. In Titus 2:11;" For the Grace of God has appeared, bringing Salvation to ALL Men." Because God is desirious or Willing for all to be Saved, by HIS Grace , he has brought Salvation to ALL Men! Now believers in God do NOT have that kind of Grace, we would simply condemn each other, not Save each other.
Eternal Punishing Hell is a curse, but Christ redeemed us all from that Curse, Galations 3:13. It is not Gods Wish, Gods Desire, for humans to be eternally burned in some Lava Lake. God is far too merciful and Compassionate to ever do such a thing. Don't you believe that about God! He will do no such thing.
And I want to go into his Characther. Peace.
In 2Pet. 3:9;" The Lord is not slow about his Promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not Wishing for any to Perish but for All to come to repentance." This is how God is, he does not, has not, willed that any would Perish, but he HAS Willed, or Wished, that All come to repentance. This means that God does not Wish, which is Will, for any to be lost eternally. The Question is NOT that he has not Wished for All to be saved, but does his Wish carry the kind of Power and Weight To save everyone? Which I think is rediculus to even ask. Of course God has the Power to accomplish ANYTHING that he wishes.
Humanity is very fortunate that God " Wishes for All humans to be Saved", I believe that mere Wish of his , is the literal garentee of all of humanity being saved. But I only see this because I believe in Gods Power. In my view, what he wishes or desires, is just a done deal. In Job 23:13;" But God is Unique and who can turn him? What his Soul Desires that he does." He desires for All to come to Repentance. In 1Tim.2:4;" God Desires for All men to be Saved and to come to understand the truth about him." This is what God desires, its what hes going to do. Many believers in him don't believe or desire for him to do it, but God does as he Pleases concerning the Salvation of humanity, not what believers in him want him to do.
Psalms 115:3;" But our God is in the Heavens; He does whatever he Pleases." He wishes for All to be Saved, he desires for All to be Saved, he DOES whatever he Pleases! This is very simple and clear and it describes how God really is. In Titus 2:11;" For the Grace of God has appeared, bringing Salvation to ALL Men." Because God is desirious or Willing for all to be Saved, by HIS Grace , he has brought Salvation to ALL Men! Now believers in God do NOT have that kind of Grace, we would simply condemn each other, not Save each other.
Eternal Punishing Hell is a curse, but Christ redeemed us all from that Curse, Galations 3:13. It is not Gods Wish, Gods Desire, for humans to be eternally burned in some Lava Lake. God is far too merciful and Compassionate to ever do such a thing. Don't you believe that about God! He will do no such thing.
And I want to go into his Characther. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Mickiel:-6
I find it rather strange that you would judge individuals such as myself and yet you have absolutely know idea as to who I am or what I believe. That is ok with me but you are indeed limiting yourself.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I find it rather strange that you would judge individuals such as myself and yet you have absolutely know idea as to who I am or what I believe. That is ok with me but you are indeed limiting yourself.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
In my studies of the Bible, the ultimate future of humanity is based on God, not how humans live and believe. I think humans will be rewarded and punished according to how they have lived by God, but I believe those punished will be corrected in a manner that is benefical to them and to God. Not destructive punishment. I say these things based on scripture, which I have shown and will continue to show, and also based on Gods own personal Characther. The Bible gives some very keen insights as to how God is.
And I want to spend a week or so on that. Peace.
And I want to spend a week or so on that. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
One of the characteristics of God is His wrath.
Ezekiel 8:18 "Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them."
Don't take my word for it, take God's
Bobby
Ezekiel 8:18 "Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them."
Don't take my word for it, take God's
Bobby
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Mickiel;857330 wrote: In my studies of the Bible, the ultimate future of humanity is based on God,
And God has shown us through the bible what His plan is. You cannot add in that at some point God would change the game plan That is your words not God's. That would not be just. That is another of God's characteristics. What about the rich man sitting in hell right now asking to let Lazarus just dip his finger in water and touch it to his parched tounge. It would not be just for Him to save others who have sinned and not come to repentence and leave Lazarus there in torments.
You have proved one thing for sure and that is that it is God's will that all should be saved. You have not quoted one scripture that indicates or even hints that that IS His plan.
For mankinds sake I wish that you were right, but for Christ's sake I hope that He did not die only for Father God to say that He was going to save them all anyway, it was all a scare tactic.
May God reveal His real self to you!
Bobby
And God has shown us through the bible what His plan is. You cannot add in that at some point God would change the game plan That is your words not God's. That would not be just. That is another of God's characteristics. What about the rich man sitting in hell right now asking to let Lazarus just dip his finger in water and touch it to his parched tounge. It would not be just for Him to save others who have sinned and not come to repentence and leave Lazarus there in torments.
You have proved one thing for sure and that is that it is God's will that all should be saved. You have not quoted one scripture that indicates or even hints that that IS His plan.
For mankinds sake I wish that you were right, but for Christ's sake I hope that He did not die only for Father God to say that He was going to save them all anyway, it was all a scare tactic.
May God reveal His real self to you!
Bobby
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
I confronted the bible with a preconceived notion of Salvation which I was taught in my youth by different churchs, which I think was the most misguided thing I have ever experienced. I think a person interested in God should read the Bible for themselves, and get into it on your own. The only way to understand the Bible, thus its message of Salvation, is that God himself has to open your mind to it, there is simply no other possible way, that I know of. You have to get mans interpitation out of your head, and divorce yourself complettely from it. You have to shed everything a church has taught you, and let God teach you, nobodyelse. Don't let anythingelse in, seriously guard that confinement, and don't worry, if understanding does not come between just you and God, it simply won't matter whatelse or wherelse you learn. That will be sufficent.
God is described in Galations 5:22-23, these are the actual ways and means of God, these are his personal charactheristics, his real ways of being. These are how God thinks and behaves, and from these " Fruits of the Spirit", or personal habitual ways of God, comes the foundation of everything that God plans and does, everything he does is based on these. Notice then Gods way of thinking and planning:
Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfullness, Gentleness and Self Control. These 9 fruits are God. This list is a literal personal description of who and what God is. Everything, everything that God does , is based on these things. Humanitys future is based on these charactheristics of God. Christ himself very own existance is based on these ways of his Fathers thinking. Reality is based on these things that flow inside of God and flow out of him. Salvation is SOLEY based on these ways of God. The ONLY way to understand Salvation, or even God himself, is to understand these traits, these fruits, these highly elevated standards of God. Its really the only way to understand the Bible.
If you want to know God, if you want to understand the Truth, you must understand these fruits, in order to come to know the true and Living God. When God Judges or decides things, he does so based on these ways of thinking and being. When he creates, its based on these things. When God thinks, or meditates, when he reasons and evaluates, when he calculates and plans, it ALL is done by these Fruits of his Spirit. They ARE HIM, they ARE his MIND, they are HIS thoughts!
This most Dynamic Being has a most impressive Mind and Heart, he is ALL these fruits at the highest levels and beyond. From this Mind came the dawn of Man and this Universe. From this Mind was conceived Salvation. And I want to go into the Mind of God. Peace.
God is described in Galations 5:22-23, these are the actual ways and means of God, these are his personal charactheristics, his real ways of being. These are how God thinks and behaves, and from these " Fruits of the Spirit", or personal habitual ways of God, comes the foundation of everything that God plans and does, everything he does is based on these. Notice then Gods way of thinking and planning:
Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfullness, Gentleness and Self Control. These 9 fruits are God. This list is a literal personal description of who and what God is. Everything, everything that God does , is based on these things. Humanitys future is based on these charactheristics of God. Christ himself very own existance is based on these ways of his Fathers thinking. Reality is based on these things that flow inside of God and flow out of him. Salvation is SOLEY based on these ways of God. The ONLY way to understand Salvation, or even God himself, is to understand these traits, these fruits, these highly elevated standards of God. Its really the only way to understand the Bible.
If you want to know God, if you want to understand the Truth, you must understand these fruits, in order to come to know the true and Living God. When God Judges or decides things, he does so based on these ways of thinking and being. When he creates, its based on these things. When God thinks, or meditates, when he reasons and evaluates, when he calculates and plans, it ALL is done by these Fruits of his Spirit. They ARE HIM, they ARE his MIND, they are HIS thoughts!
This most Dynamic Being has a most impressive Mind and Heart, he is ALL these fruits at the highest levels and beyond. From this Mind came the dawn of Man and this Universe. From this Mind was conceived Salvation. And I want to go into the Mind of God. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
The saddest thing I have discovered in this world of belief and unbelief in God, is that concerned humans have been led to believe that God based Salvation on human response, rather than his own Mind. Because of belief in free will, many concerned believers think that God issued Salvation out, and structured it based on the human mind, the human belief, the human response, the humans ability to accept him, the human decision to repent, the human effort to fight and overcome sin, which basically reduces Salvation to a humanfree will choice, or human Adaquacy. Thus, the way to God has been defined really as a self improvement program. Meaning its basically up to the human will,and not Gods will. Which falls right into satans hands, because if Salvation is left up to humans, then that will effectively doom far more than , at the least, perhaps some 80% of created humanity, if not much more.
Examing this reality, as oppossed to Gods Own Mind, that just does not figure. I refuse to believe that God would accept those numerics, just so that humans can choose him freely, not when he has the power to open their minds and lead them to complette understanding of him. ( Which I will go into later). For God to establish Salvation based on human free will, would literally condemn far too many of his Children, so I know that interpitation of Salvation, though widely accepted, is simply not true, God is far too creative and suscessful in his thinking for him to have such failure, under any circumstances. Self righteous believers in God can accept those numerics, because our minds are limited and selfish enough to exclude billions from Salvation, the sad thing is we have been convinced that God is like we are.
I want to go into some scriptures that dispute this depressive view of God. God is NOT the kind of being who would loose so many of his children, for ANY reason, muchless this free will reason.
Peace.
Examing this reality, as oppossed to Gods Own Mind, that just does not figure. I refuse to believe that God would accept those numerics, just so that humans can choose him freely, not when he has the power to open their minds and lead them to complette understanding of him. ( Which I will go into later). For God to establish Salvation based on human free will, would literally condemn far too many of his Children, so I know that interpitation of Salvation, though widely accepted, is simply not true, God is far too creative and suscessful in his thinking for him to have such failure, under any circumstances. Self righteous believers in God can accept those numerics, because our minds are limited and selfish enough to exclude billions from Salvation, the sad thing is we have been convinced that God is like we are.
I want to go into some scriptures that dispute this depressive view of God. God is NOT the kind of being who would loose so many of his children, for ANY reason, muchless this free will reason.
Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Based on Gods mind, I then judge the bible based on God, how he thinks, how he must be himself. And keep in mind the Fruits of the Spirit, which are the ways and means of Gods own Mind as expressed in Galations 5:22-23. Would it be Kind or Good of God to condemn to hell punishment forever, whole entire tribes or groups of people who knew absolutely nothing about him or Jesus? Of course not, so now is not the day of Salvation for anyone who has lived, that was totally ignorant of God. So there must be another day of Salvation comming, I am convinced of that, BASED on Gods Characther. God is Patient, Good, Gentle, Peaceful and Kind, none of which would condemn anyone who has ever lived that had no chance of understanding him or his word. So theres going to be another day of Salvation for ressurected humans who were ignorant of God.
Secondly, there is no where listed in the entire Old Testement, nowhere that shows any information concerning the " Threat of eternal hell damnation" to anyone who has ever lived during those times. They wereNOT given that as a consequence for their sins. So there will be another day of Salvation for those people also. If anyone doubts this, simply produce the old testement threats of eternal hell damnation to me for me to read. I have found none, which leads me to further believe that this belief in eternal hell damnation is more overblown than I had first realized. It is more than overbelieved, it is embraced, as if it is even desired and Loved by those who embrace it.
Thirdly; There is another set of Scriptures that describe Gods Mind, and they contridict any concept of there being even a possibility that many humans willnot be with God for any reason. 1 Corinth. 13:4-8, further describes the Mind of God, the true author of Salvation. It describes what Love is. God is Love, thus this discription of Love then describes Gods Mind. Love is Patient, Love is Kind, is not jealous, does not brag and is not arrogant. These are actually reasons that God can and will save all of humanity, because he Loves everybody. He Loves us all, because he can't help himself, thats just how he really is.
God does not act or think unbecomingly, and creating an eternal torturing hell would be most certaingly unbecomming. Love does not seek its own, meaning God does not just seek his own. He is not just come to the earth to save the righteous only, but those who are not righteous , or believers, those who are not " His own, or called to be believers." God is not partial or picky, which would mean that he does seek his own, and to hell with everyonelse. God is not provoked, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, he bears ALL things, which INCLUDES rejection of him and unbelief in him, God believes all things, which means he believes in the Salvation of all, he hopes all things, which garentees the Salvation of All, he endures all things, which means total forgiveness.
Then it says that Love never Fails! I want to stop here and focus on this point, because it means that God never Fails. I don't know why so many christian believers can accept the damnation of billions of humans, as if it is a success. Thats a failure by any definition of the word. And I want to go into that. Peace.
Secondly, there is no where listed in the entire Old Testement, nowhere that shows any information concerning the " Threat of eternal hell damnation" to anyone who has ever lived during those times. They wereNOT given that as a consequence for their sins. So there will be another day of Salvation for those people also. If anyone doubts this, simply produce the old testement threats of eternal hell damnation to me for me to read. I have found none, which leads me to further believe that this belief in eternal hell damnation is more overblown than I had first realized. It is more than overbelieved, it is embraced, as if it is even desired and Loved by those who embrace it.
Thirdly; There is another set of Scriptures that describe Gods Mind, and they contridict any concept of there being even a possibility that many humans willnot be with God for any reason. 1 Corinth. 13:4-8, further describes the Mind of God, the true author of Salvation. It describes what Love is. God is Love, thus this discription of Love then describes Gods Mind. Love is Patient, Love is Kind, is not jealous, does not brag and is not arrogant. These are actually reasons that God can and will save all of humanity, because he Loves everybody. He Loves us all, because he can't help himself, thats just how he really is.
God does not act or think unbecomingly, and creating an eternal torturing hell would be most certaingly unbecomming. Love does not seek its own, meaning God does not just seek his own. He is not just come to the earth to save the righteous only, but those who are not righteous , or believers, those who are not " His own, or called to be believers." God is not partial or picky, which would mean that he does seek his own, and to hell with everyonelse. God is not provoked, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, he bears ALL things, which INCLUDES rejection of him and unbelief in him, God believes all things, which means he believes in the Salvation of all, he hopes all things, which garentees the Salvation of All, he endures all things, which means total forgiveness.
Then it says that Love never Fails! I want to stop here and focus on this point, because it means that God never Fails. I don't know why so many christian believers can accept the damnation of billions of humans, as if it is a success. Thats a failure by any definition of the word. And I want to go into that. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
I cannot understand, for the life of me, why some who have read the bible, actually believe that Jesus was beaten to death, so that so many unbelieving humans will conversely be beaten for all of eternity in hell, and they call his death a victory? I have personally experienced almost unbearable pain for a couple of days. I once had a chest infection that hurt me so bad, I actually would have rather died than to continue living with the pain. I just couldnot take it any more. Incidents like that have opened my mind to the truth about God. There is no way I can ever believe that God would allow a human to experience pain and be kept alive for all of endless eternity, and this God be called just and kind and gentle and forgiving. It is impossible. I know that the God of the bible will do no such thing, he willnot co-exist with such intolerable misery forever. God willnot make an eternal monument of the works of the devil. I had to then accept that whole generations have misunderstood the bible, even the strange apparent reality that believers in God themselves have misunderstood their God. But I could see the hell verses in the bible for myself, so I knew something had to be wrong!
But I must find the answer within the bible itself, and the key to the answer is examining God himself. Well what about Christ and all the focus on him, surely in Jesus an answer must be there. Well my study of Jesus revealed one thing that he consistantly did, he submitted himself constantly to his Father God, and consistantly said that he came to do his Fathers will. So the answer to Salvation really lays in God, whom the bible states that in the final restoration of all things, that Jesus will turn all things over to his Father.
God never Fails, which means he himself must be perfect. He must be perfection personified, flawless in all that he plans and determines. His powers of predestination, his ability to know all things before hand, then demands that he must have thought out everything he does to its finest state of conclusion. Because God is eternal and does not exist in time, then he created time only for the convience of humanity. God is the alpha and omega, or the beginning and end of all things. Which means that he exist within all three of humanitys time frames at the same time. He is alive in our past, he is alive in our present and right now alive in our future, and actually there in each period right now! He can predetermine our future because he is right now there in our future, his omnipresence is not limited by our time frames. There is no possible way that a being like this, who has expressed his desire to save everybody, cannot then accomplish it. Hes just far too powerful, far to gifted and talented, far too Loving and Merciful, to establish the system of Salvation that his followers seem to believe he has.
When Jesus said if I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me, is a direct reflection and influence of his father Gods direct personal and predetermined will. And I want to further examine this egnigmatic being we call God. His illuminus mind, his extraordinary powers, his underated Love and Kindness, his true plan for all of his Children.
Peace.
But I must find the answer within the bible itself, and the key to the answer is examining God himself. Well what about Christ and all the focus on him, surely in Jesus an answer must be there. Well my study of Jesus revealed one thing that he consistantly did, he submitted himself constantly to his Father God, and consistantly said that he came to do his Fathers will. So the answer to Salvation really lays in God, whom the bible states that in the final restoration of all things, that Jesus will turn all things over to his Father.
God never Fails, which means he himself must be perfect. He must be perfection personified, flawless in all that he plans and determines. His powers of predestination, his ability to know all things before hand, then demands that he must have thought out everything he does to its finest state of conclusion. Because God is eternal and does not exist in time, then he created time only for the convience of humanity. God is the alpha and omega, or the beginning and end of all things. Which means that he exist within all three of humanitys time frames at the same time. He is alive in our past, he is alive in our present and right now alive in our future, and actually there in each period right now! He can predetermine our future because he is right now there in our future, his omnipresence is not limited by our time frames. There is no possible way that a being like this, who has expressed his desire to save everybody, cannot then accomplish it. Hes just far too powerful, far to gifted and talented, far too Loving and Merciful, to establish the system of Salvation that his followers seem to believe he has.
When Jesus said if I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me, is a direct reflection and influence of his father Gods direct personal and predetermined will. And I want to further examine this egnigmatic being we call God. His illuminus mind, his extraordinary powers, his underated Love and Kindness, his true plan for all of his Children.
Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
In Isaiah 43:19 God speaks something impressive; " Behold, I will do something New, now it will spring forth. Will you be aware of it?" This is something about God that I think is both impressive, and yet mysterious, he can do something totally new to the human experience, and yet do it in a manner that nobody will be aware of it. I think he is already doing this, and I think the Salvation and total rehabilitation of all of humanity is one of these things, people just can't see it. In verse 25 God speaks that" I, even I, am the one who wipes out your sins " For my OWN Sake." Interesting that God wipes out sins for his own Intrests. So eliminating sins and transgressions are in Gods intrest, its something that he wants to do and likes doing.
In verse 13 God speaks;" Even from Eternity I am he; and there is none who can deliver out of my hand; I act and who can reverse it?" Here we have a being who can do anything and nothing can stop him, nothing. He has existed for all Eternity, so he indeed is nothing that we know and can comprehend, and he does things that cannot be changed by anything but himself. When he says that he has wiped out sin, nothing can change that. Nobody can charge humanity as being quilty, unless they can overule God. God, for his own intrest, has forgiven humanity for ALL of their sins, THATS what Jesus death symbolized, that is what God has done that cannot be undone.
And I want to go into that. Peace.
In verse 13 God speaks;" Even from Eternity I am he; and there is none who can deliver out of my hand; I act and who can reverse it?" Here we have a being who can do anything and nothing can stop him, nothing. He has existed for all Eternity, so he indeed is nothing that we know and can comprehend, and he does things that cannot be changed by anything but himself. When he says that he has wiped out sin, nothing can change that. Nobody can charge humanity as being quilty, unless they can overule God. God, for his own intrest, has forgiven humanity for ALL of their sins, THATS what Jesus death symbolized, that is what God has done that cannot be undone.
And I want to go into that. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
I find it contridiction that this world is growing increasingly godless and in moral decline and yet the believers in God are trying to present to this world, a gospel of selective choice and free will, or face an eternity of pain and suffering that must be a new era in the art of eternal torture that surpasses barbaric. The Christian world is increasingly inward, as they herd themselves into their places of worship, the outside world still sinks in sin. All avialible satistics show the bible was correct in predicting that humanity will go from worse to worse.
The task that God faces is then obvious; sin is not here to stay, but is humanity here to stay? God has tolerated sin to a certain point, and eventually he will tolerate it no more. But will God allow sin to abort most of his children from their eternal birth right. Is sin greater than Gods plan of Salvation? What does God really think about those who hate him, nor believe in them, nor trust him? What is he going to do with them?
Peace.
The task that God faces is then obvious; sin is not here to stay, but is humanity here to stay? God has tolerated sin to a certain point, and eventually he will tolerate it no more. But will God allow sin to abort most of his children from their eternal birth right. Is sin greater than Gods plan of Salvation? What does God really think about those who hate him, nor believe in them, nor trust him? What is he going to do with them?
Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Mickiel;863040 wrote: I find it contridiction that this world is growing increasingly godless and in moral decline and yet the believers in God are trying to present to this world, a gospel of selective choice and free will, or face an eternity of pain and suffering that must be a new era in the art of eternal torture that surpasses barbaric. The Christian world is increasingly inward, as they herd themselves into their places of worship, the outside world still sinks in sin. All avialible satistics show the bible was correct in predicting that humanity will go from worse to worse.
The task that God faces is then obvious; sin is not here to stay, but is humanity here to stay? God has tolerated sin to a certain point, and eventually he will tolerate it no more. But will God allow sin to abort most of his children from their eternal birth right. Is sin greater than Gods plan of Salvation? What does God really think about those who hate him, nor believe in them, nor trust him? What is he going to do with them?
Peace.
"Genesis 3
1. Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2. And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3. But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."
This is a total perversion of the word of God that you are preaching. You misinterpret scriptues to fit your feel safe theory. We are all God's creation and He loves us all, through Jesus' sacrifice He did give us a way to become children of God.
This sounds to me a little like "ye shall not surely die."
May God reveal the real truth to you!
Bobby
The task that God faces is then obvious; sin is not here to stay, but is humanity here to stay? God has tolerated sin to a certain point, and eventually he will tolerate it no more. But will God allow sin to abort most of his children from their eternal birth right. Is sin greater than Gods plan of Salvation? What does God really think about those who hate him, nor believe in them, nor trust him? What is he going to do with them?
Peace.
"Genesis 3
1. Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2. And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3. But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."
This is a total perversion of the word of God that you are preaching. You misinterpret scriptues to fit your feel safe theory. We are all God's creation and He loves us all, through Jesus' sacrifice He did give us a way to become children of God.
This sounds to me a little like "ye shall not surely die."
May God reveal the real truth to you!
Bobby
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
I am quite thrilled with what I have found in the bible, I couldcareless what christians think. I care about what God thinks, and how God is and what his word says to me. The word of God is his voice, I follow it, like a sheep would follow a shepard. In Amos 3:3;" Do two people walk together unless they agree?" I do not agree with christians, so I do not walk with them, and couldcareless if I talk with them. I am learning to talk with God. In Joel 2:28 God makes a promise to pour out his Spirit on ALL of mankind, this is the words of God, this is the destiny of the entire human race, Salvation is not a christian thing. Christians have just taken the Kingdom by the violence of their own spiritual greed, and they are trying to " Shut off the Kingdom from Men", as Jesus plainly stated in Matt. 23:13. They are twice the sons of their beloved hell they are trying to herd sinful humanity into. But there is hope for sinners and unbelievers, there is room in Gods heart for everyone, no matter what you have done, or how long you have done it. No matter how christianity continually condemns unbelieving humanity, Salvation is not based on your belief, its based on Gods Heart. Gods very own ways and means.
You can and will be saved, your destiny is to have Life, and have it abundantly, meaning eternally. With great power the word of God is for the Salvation of all, illreguradless of what you accept or not. God already knows the foolishness in mens hearts and how people will stupidly and ignorantly reject him. Christians will condemn you for doing these things, but christians DO NOT represent God, they just think that they do. There is no condemnation to those who belong to Christ. Now, who belongs to Christ? John 17:2, ALL of humanity belongs to him, don't you believe these christians trying to condemn you, they do so in their own ignorance and foolishness.
Gods Heart is vastly FULL of Love for EVERYONE, and he is the one who brought ALL things into existance, INCLUDING Evil. Evil and sin do not have self evolution, NOTHING created itself, Jesus brought all things into existance, John 1:3.
There is NO WAY that God is going to allow sin and evil, things that HE brought into existance, to destroy humanity and keep us from him. God is going to save every last one of us. The christians may call this heresey, but I call it Salvation, and everyone NEEDS it, and the good news is that everyone will be included. Included because God preordained it. And I want to get into that a little. Peace.
You can and will be saved, your destiny is to have Life, and have it abundantly, meaning eternally. With great power the word of God is for the Salvation of all, illreguradless of what you accept or not. God already knows the foolishness in mens hearts and how people will stupidly and ignorantly reject him. Christians will condemn you for doing these things, but christians DO NOT represent God, they just think that they do. There is no condemnation to those who belong to Christ. Now, who belongs to Christ? John 17:2, ALL of humanity belongs to him, don't you believe these christians trying to condemn you, they do so in their own ignorance and foolishness.
Gods Heart is vastly FULL of Love for EVERYONE, and he is the one who brought ALL things into existance, INCLUDING Evil. Evil and sin do not have self evolution, NOTHING created itself, Jesus brought all things into existance, John 1:3.
There is NO WAY that God is going to allow sin and evil, things that HE brought into existance, to destroy humanity and keep us from him. God is going to save every last one of us. The christians may call this heresey, but I call it Salvation, and everyone NEEDS it, and the good news is that everyone will be included. Included because God preordained it. And I want to get into that a little. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
I am very proud to have been created by God and I trust in him. I trust his Heart, he is not human and given to human tendency to condemn people who do not accept him. God is not in some battle with evil, as if he will only save those who are good. This egnigmatic being is super intelligent, super wise and super benelvolent. He is super kind and super Loving, his grace shatters any conception of Salvation even his own believers have in him. Eons of time ago Gods mind became pregnant with the desire to have his very own children. God is a Super being, so he will have an extra ordinary amount of offspring, and hes not going to loose any of his children to sin.
God didnot decide to have children, only to test them and try them in some plan to only " Accept" those of his children who lived right and won some battle with sin, then to eternal hell with the rest of those who didnot qualify. What kind of sense do you think God has? If Gods children were in some super battle with evil, they are loosing very badly. The vast majority of humans have surcomed to evil, so evil itself is grossly misunderstood in Gods plans.
And that because God himself is misunderstood. And I want to show you why. Peace.
God didnot decide to have children, only to test them and try them in some plan to only " Accept" those of his children who lived right and won some battle with sin, then to eternal hell with the rest of those who didnot qualify. What kind of sense do you think God has? If Gods children were in some super battle with evil, they are loosing very badly. The vast majority of humans have surcomed to evil, so evil itself is grossly misunderstood in Gods plans.
And that because God himself is misunderstood. And I want to show you why. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
We don't really understand Gods Love, we barely understand human Love. Our error in our perception of God is that we look at our Love, our patience, our goodness, our kindness, our gentleness, our grace and our mercy, and we think Gods ways are like ours. That is a very, very serious error in trying to perceive God, his ways are NOT like ours! His Love is NOTHING like ours. His Grace and Forgiveness is NOTHING like ours. His intelligence is NOTHING like ours. His Goodness is NOTHING like ours. His plan of Salvation is NOTHING like we perceive it to be.
God is not slack concerning any of his promises, as we are slack, what he desires will come to be. Gods desires are not predicated on human will. His desires are based on his own will, God is judge unto himself, and cannot be bargained with, cannot be manipulated, cannot be stopped, and people really don't believe this about God. Once God has spoken something, it will come to past, once he desires something, that something will become a reality. Thats just how it is.
And its nothing any of us can do about this.
Peace.
God is not slack concerning any of his promises, as we are slack, what he desires will come to be. Gods desires are not predicated on human will. His desires are based on his own will, God is judge unto himself, and cannot be bargained with, cannot be manipulated, cannot be stopped, and people really don't believe this about God. Once God has spoken something, it will come to past, once he desires something, that something will become a reality. Thats just how it is.
And its nothing any of us can do about this.
Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Ask yourself a question. If you had the power to save all of humanity, would you do it? I know I have jumped on Christianity quite a bit, I have my reasons for doing so, since they jump on unbelievers so much, but that aside, what Christian wouldnot redeem all of Mankind if they had the power to do so? I think even a Christian, if they had the Power, would choose to save everyone. ( well on second thought, I think at least most of them would). This is the real question you have to ask yourself about God.
There is no " If" with God, he DOES have the power to save everyone. There is nothing God cannot do. There are things that he " Willnot do", but there is nothing that he cannot do, with him, all things are possible. The bible has shifted some gears in my mind, because I approach it as a child. A child has imagination and ask questions. If God desires that all be saved, he has the heart and mind AND Power to do it, then why have I been taught that its not possible?
Well I have put the bible under a magnifying glass in my mind, my belief. Something under a magnifying glass does not change your view, or change the thing being viewed, it " Improves your view." A passive approach toward the bible, only results in passive interpitation of it. A passive approach toward Salvation, or a limited belief in it, results in a limited picture of it. Salvation is a " Sab", a healing over of wounds, a freedom from bondage. A gift of unmeasured poprotions.
The bible is slap full of answers to questions, wisdom to guide, but passive traditional attempts to understand it just will not cut through all the misconceptions this great book has spawned. God is Majestic in his Holiness, Ex. 15:11, his thoughts and ways are nothing like ours, Is. 55:8-11, he is the " Majesty", Heb.8:1, and the Majestic glory, 2Pet.1:17. He can form a human in the womb of their parent to serve him, Is. 49:5. He can enlighten any humans mind and give them any kind of hope and understanding, Eph.1:18, so that " They may KNOW the HOPE that is in him." We cannot know this on our own.
When Jesus was being murdered he asked God to forgive them who were killing him, " Because they didNOT know what they were doing." Mankind STILL does not know what it is doing. People reject God because they just don't know what they are doing, and God has the power to change every last one of them in less than a second. That would be NOTHING for God to do. Many have been led to believe that God is after a " Free will choice in humanity to accept him", that is utter nonsense and beneath God, it would effectively condemn far too many of us, AND GOD KNOWS THAT!
I want to explain the real truth about God, his real Power, what hes really planning to do. And its right there in your bible. Peace.
There is no " If" with God, he DOES have the power to save everyone. There is nothing God cannot do. There are things that he " Willnot do", but there is nothing that he cannot do, with him, all things are possible. The bible has shifted some gears in my mind, because I approach it as a child. A child has imagination and ask questions. If God desires that all be saved, he has the heart and mind AND Power to do it, then why have I been taught that its not possible?
Well I have put the bible under a magnifying glass in my mind, my belief. Something under a magnifying glass does not change your view, or change the thing being viewed, it " Improves your view." A passive approach toward the bible, only results in passive interpitation of it. A passive approach toward Salvation, or a limited belief in it, results in a limited picture of it. Salvation is a " Sab", a healing over of wounds, a freedom from bondage. A gift of unmeasured poprotions.
The bible is slap full of answers to questions, wisdom to guide, but passive traditional attempts to understand it just will not cut through all the misconceptions this great book has spawned. God is Majestic in his Holiness, Ex. 15:11, his thoughts and ways are nothing like ours, Is. 55:8-11, he is the " Majesty", Heb.8:1, and the Majestic glory, 2Pet.1:17. He can form a human in the womb of their parent to serve him, Is. 49:5. He can enlighten any humans mind and give them any kind of hope and understanding, Eph.1:18, so that " They may KNOW the HOPE that is in him." We cannot know this on our own.
When Jesus was being murdered he asked God to forgive them who were killing him, " Because they didNOT know what they were doing." Mankind STILL does not know what it is doing. People reject God because they just don't know what they are doing, and God has the power to change every last one of them in less than a second. That would be NOTHING for God to do. Many have been led to believe that God is after a " Free will choice in humanity to accept him", that is utter nonsense and beneath God, it would effectively condemn far too many of us, AND GOD KNOWS THAT!
I want to explain the real truth about God, his real Power, what hes really planning to do. And its right there in your bible. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
It would be a shame if Americans would be the ones to destroy America. It would be so sad if it was a family member who brought pain into the family. It would be troublesome if it was an employee who wrecked the job and caused the business trouble. In romance it would be terrible if the real trouble was caused from within between one of the two. And along this line of thinking, it has been believers in God who have actually hurt the view of Salvation the most. They are not doing it intentionally, and have not done it intentionally, but much of the confusion about the truth in the bible, has been magnified by most of its believers.
And this has been a very important weapon of satan the devil, the one chosen to represent evil. His deception of " Spiritual People", or the believers in God. It is they who have been used to distort the true picture of God and Salvation. And I want to go into this most amazing contridiction. Peace.
And this has been a very important weapon of satan the devil, the one chosen to represent evil. His deception of " Spiritual People", or the believers in God. It is they who have been used to distort the true picture of God and Salvation. And I want to go into this most amazing contridiction. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
In order to understand God you must divorce yourself from traditional christianity, that is a barrier to the truth. You have to turn away from every person that you think you need to teach you, and throw away all the books on God that you have except the bible. Don't depend on any church, any person, and lean totally on God to teach you himself. This is the best way to get to BEGIN to understand God, anyother way is going to be a crutch that you really do not need.
Ask yourself this; Who can teach you better than Gods Spirit can teach you? Once you are put into an area of learning only from Gods Spirit, your just on the real path to comprehending truth. Throw away all the things you have depended on except your bible, get everythingelse out of the way. And you will then be in a position that will show you thats all you really need. And if God starts teaching you, your going to be shocked at what is revealed. If he does not, then its just not yet your time, but your time will come. Peace.
Ask yourself this; Who can teach you better than Gods Spirit can teach you? Once you are put into an area of learning only from Gods Spirit, your just on the real path to comprehending truth. Throw away all the things you have depended on except your bible, get everythingelse out of the way. And you will then be in a position that will show you thats all you really need. And if God starts teaching you, your going to be shocked at what is revealed. If he does not, then its just not yet your time, but your time will come. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
In John 6:51;" I am the living bread that came down from heaven; If anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever. And the bread also which I shall GIVE for the life of the world is my flesh." Listen, Jesus gave his Life FOR the Life of the whole world. This thing is for all of us, given freely. We all are running around like religious chickens with our heads cut off in fear of some ever burning hell, trying to qualify for something that is freely given. We have swallowed religious interpitation of Gods word, and think that God is out to " Get us sinners", we have paranoid views of Gods great salvation. And this paranoia has literally spiritually crippled humanity.
In 1John 2:2 Jesus himself is the " Propitiation for our sins", and NOT OUR SINS ONLY, but ALSO for the sins of the whole world." This is complette total coverage that is all inclusive, yet christians have discriminated so very badly against unbelieving sinners. The gospel christianity preaches is a no win situation for unbelieving sinners. Gods true plan and grace are not being taught to this world. This is why humanity is ignorant of their true creator, because they think christianity is the true followers of God.
You have got to, GOT TO, divorce your view of christianity as being a view of God, it will mess you up, while making you believe you are being dressed up. Look to the bible,or your OWN sense of things, learn to depend on that. And I want to show you how. Peace.
In 1John 2:2 Jesus himself is the " Propitiation for our sins", and NOT OUR SINS ONLY, but ALSO for the sins of the whole world." This is complette total coverage that is all inclusive, yet christians have discriminated so very badly against unbelieving sinners. The gospel christianity preaches is a no win situation for unbelieving sinners. Gods true plan and grace are not being taught to this world. This is why humanity is ignorant of their true creator, because they think christianity is the true followers of God.
You have got to, GOT TO, divorce your view of christianity as being a view of God, it will mess you up, while making you believe you are being dressed up. Look to the bible,or your OWN sense of things, learn to depend on that. And I want to show you how. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
God so loved us all that he GAVE his only son to prepare the way for us. Gave it, he's not selling it as if we need to qualify for it, its a freely done deal. But our freedom in Salvation Cost Christ his Life. It is NOT being charged to us, which is what many have been led to believe about God. The sins and unbelief of humanity is NOT being charged to us! They were charged to Christ, another unbelievable and misunderstood biblical fact. Luke 5:21, who can forgive sin but God alone.
Look at these sin forgiving provisions, Acts 26:18, Rom. 3:25, 11:27, Gal.1:4, Eph.1:7, Col.1:14, Heb.1:3, 1Pet.2:24, 1John 1:9, 1John 3:5, and on and on it goes pumping out the way we are all forgiven of our sins, nothing can stop our Salvation. BECAUSE its based on God, NOT you, GOD! You cannot bear the urden of sin, you just can't.
Its just too much to try to take on yourself.
But you don't have to pay the price, its already paied. Peace.
Look at these sin forgiving provisions, Acts 26:18, Rom. 3:25, 11:27, Gal.1:4, Eph.1:7, Col.1:14, Heb.1:3, 1Pet.2:24, 1John 1:9, 1John 3:5, and on and on it goes pumping out the way we are all forgiven of our sins, nothing can stop our Salvation. BECAUSE its based on God, NOT you, GOD! You cannot bear the urden of sin, you just can't.
Its just too much to try to take on yourself.
But you don't have to pay the price, its already paied. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
One of the favorite things that God enjoys doing, is Loving and caring for his creations. He wouldnot harm his creations, but with humanity, that is not so. We are different in Gods plans. We are destined to bo Gods " Own offspring", his very own children, not his creations. This means our lives are more correctly compared to being " Born, then Born Again." And our birth must require birthpains. This is unfortunate and misunderstood, but in order to be born of God, humanity must first suffer. And I do not complettely understand the suffering. Something about the suffering, the pain, the misery and sin, has something magical to do with us, becomming like God our Father.
I don't think the Father God himself has ever suffered or been in misery, but he did require the next best thing to himself to go through it, that being Jesus. Jesus is a being of very great power, but I believe even Jesus was " Birthed by God" long ago. I think Jesus came " Out of God", as a human baby would come out of a woman. God is eternal, thus anything that comes out of him, is then composed of eternity itself. God has no beginning, Jesus came from inside of God, thus he has no beginning either, he was always in there. But God gave Jesus " Protozoan", or eternal self existant life. Eternal self generating life. Jesus was " Begotten" or Birthed by God. And humanity is destined to undergo this Birth also, we will be given Protozoan, or individual self existant eternal Life.
And I want to show this in scripture. Peace.
I don't think the Father God himself has ever suffered or been in misery, but he did require the next best thing to himself to go through it, that being Jesus. Jesus is a being of very great power, but I believe even Jesus was " Birthed by God" long ago. I think Jesus came " Out of God", as a human baby would come out of a woman. God is eternal, thus anything that comes out of him, is then composed of eternity itself. God has no beginning, Jesus came from inside of God, thus he has no beginning either, he was always in there. But God gave Jesus " Protozoan", or eternal self existant life. Eternal self generating life. Jesus was " Begotten" or Birthed by God. And humanity is destined to undergo this Birth also, we will be given Protozoan, or individual self existant eternal Life.
And I want to show this in scripture. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
In John 8:42, again Jesus speaking;" If God were your Father, you would Love me; For I proceeded forth and came from God." This gives definte signs of a " Birth", but yet one long ago. Jesus came from inside of God, he really is Gods Son, and only Begotten Son, Begotten surely denotes a Birth of some kind. Most interesting and unusual, in my view. In John 6:57, again Jesus;" As the Living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father." Interesting statement, " I Live because of the Father." Jesus is alive because of God the Father.
1John 4:3 again states that Jesus is " From God." And 1John 5:1 literally just comes right out and reveals that Jesus is " Born of God." The bible also calls Jesus the " Firstborn of many bretheren." So Jesus orgin is directly from God. In Heb. 2:9-11, Jesus was " Made Lower than Angels", made to suffer and taste Death " For Everyone." To pave the way for all of humanity to also suffer and die and THEN be ressurected and made perfect, thus he is the Author of our Salvation THROUGH Sufferings.
This is all of our destinys, not to be perfect now, but to be perfected later. We must suffer now, and unbelief is part of that suffering. Sin and Evil is just part of the suffering. Notice John 1:18;" No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father." One of the few places in Scripture that Jesus is refered to as God, but notice he is " In the Bosom of the Father." Again a reference that suggest a " Womb of sorts", a Bosom, or a place of Birth.
Jesus is not God the Father, they are two seperate consciousness, two seperate beings, who hold perfect unity, as though they were " One Being." When Jesus said I and my Father are " One", he meant in unity, not them sharing the same form or Spirit body. He meant they were " One Each." This is better understood when God the Father said that he was God, and no onelse besides him was God, and Jesus was sitting besides him when he said this.
We on earth are now in a " Womb of sorts", and must undergo a rebirth.
And I want to go into that. Peace.
1John 4:3 again states that Jesus is " From God." And 1John 5:1 literally just comes right out and reveals that Jesus is " Born of God." The bible also calls Jesus the " Firstborn of many bretheren." So Jesus orgin is directly from God. In Heb. 2:9-11, Jesus was " Made Lower than Angels", made to suffer and taste Death " For Everyone." To pave the way for all of humanity to also suffer and die and THEN be ressurected and made perfect, thus he is the Author of our Salvation THROUGH Sufferings.
This is all of our destinys, not to be perfect now, but to be perfected later. We must suffer now, and unbelief is part of that suffering. Sin and Evil is just part of the suffering. Notice John 1:18;" No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father." One of the few places in Scripture that Jesus is refered to as God, but notice he is " In the Bosom of the Father." Again a reference that suggest a " Womb of sorts", a Bosom, or a place of Birth.
Jesus is not God the Father, they are two seperate consciousness, two seperate beings, who hold perfect unity, as though they were " One Being." When Jesus said I and my Father are " One", he meant in unity, not them sharing the same form or Spirit body. He meant they were " One Each." This is better understood when God the Father said that he was God, and no onelse besides him was God, and Jesus was sitting besides him when he said this.
We on earth are now in a " Womb of sorts", and must undergo a rebirth.
And I want to go into that. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Adam was created from the " Womb of the earth", Eve was created from Adams womb, and all of humanity came from Eves womb. All a recycling, all new births, all reflective of humanitys future to be reborn again. All a picture of Gods plan and Gods mind. Each birth with a future of another birth, much more significant than the birth before. Each a shifting of gears, each a unique part of the thoughts of God being expressed with a life better than the one before.
This is the future of humanity, to experience our lives, then be born again into a far better one than the life before. And nothing we do in our lives can stop the life to come. We are destined to live with God forever, he will have nothingelse. The work of God is a work of Love, a process of pain for humanity, but pain with a goal of complette Salvation destiny and Gods Love will assure us safe passge from our fears into his strength and Power. Peace.
This is the future of humanity, to experience our lives, then be born again into a far better one than the life before. And nothing we do in our lives can stop the life to come. We are destined to live with God forever, he will have nothingelse. The work of God is a work of Love, a process of pain for humanity, but pain with a goal of complette Salvation destiny and Gods Love will assure us safe passge from our fears into his strength and Power. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Gods ways cannot be explained by men, who really insult his integrity by limiting aspects of their puny belief. God is involved with his own self goals, and his goals are just as big as him. God is Love, meaning all his ways can be defined by a real study of what Love is. Love is unconditional giving, and God is giving eternal Life with absolutely no conditions placed on us, he placed those conditions on his son Jesus. God so Loved humanity, that he GAVE us Jesus, and his Salvation is not limited, his Atonement is for everyone. Its for the killer, the rapeist, the child molester, and all of those who the judgement of men would oppose giving Salvation to. Gods Love is a deep passion of unmeasured assurance in himself, he will save us all no matter what. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
To base Salvation on the Knowledge or behavior of man is really survival instinct, we want to survive, and we take hold of the bible in hope of a better survival, you know, a better outcome than what we can see. Salvation is based on Gods knowledge, Gods instinct, Gods plans and Gods behavior. Once this is complettely understood then the immense pressure to survive is removed, and placed on God, where it should correctly be. I think this is an important part of what those who God truly communicates with will begin to see, that it is not their will that really matters, its Gods will that really matters. The way of man to understand this is not in himself, such understanding can only be imparted from God. And God will show this kind of mind that he is not impartial, but all inclusive of every human, because thats how God really is.
Once you get into Gods mind, then you cannot afford to think like a human, where Salvation and Truth is concerned. The Bible has no code, but it does have Spiritual limitations that forbid human understanding, but invites it somewhat. Its a path that is not based on self, its based on what God is and what Jesus has done, it is not based on human performance, but does change human performance.
The human tendency is to pat itself on the back for THEIR belief, their righteousness, their goodness, and then expect God to reward that, as if they leave him no other choice but to save them. This is flawed reasoning, salvation is not a self improvement program, although it may seem to be on the surface, we just try and take credit for far too much, and our view of God is interupted by our own sense of righteousness. Conversely, the sinful mind gives itself far too much doom, thinking that they simply don't add up to the way things have been taught about God.
And I want to go into that handicap and how it has crippled the sinful mind. Peace.
Once you get into Gods mind, then you cannot afford to think like a human, where Salvation and Truth is concerned. The Bible has no code, but it does have Spiritual limitations that forbid human understanding, but invites it somewhat. Its a path that is not based on self, its based on what God is and what Jesus has done, it is not based on human performance, but does change human performance.
The human tendency is to pat itself on the back for THEIR belief, their righteousness, their goodness, and then expect God to reward that, as if they leave him no other choice but to save them. This is flawed reasoning, salvation is not a self improvement program, although it may seem to be on the surface, we just try and take credit for far too much, and our view of God is interupted by our own sense of righteousness. Conversely, the sinful mind gives itself far too much doom, thinking that they simply don't add up to the way things have been taught about God.
And I want to go into that handicap and how it has crippled the sinful mind. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Humans are either "overly Spiritual", or abusively negative about their future with God, and these two extremes tend to dominate human belief and behavior, with varying degrees inbetween. The Overly Spiritual tendency in believers has heaped untold damage upon the physce of sinners who are, or have been at sundry times in their lives, truly interested in God. Worse than the Pharisees of old, the Modernday Pharisees are rigors of righteousness egar to fill their beloved hell up to the brimstone, and overflow the lava lake with worthless sinners who have failed to live up to their view of God. They will judge you to damnation in less than a minute of meeting you. And far too many humans who search for God have paied them far too much attention.
Christianity has set the world stage and has made the most popular impression about God on peoples minds, thus in my view, it has done the greatest damage to the human physce concerning God. This unusual contridiction, the very followers of God actually heaping damage on Gods created human population, is mostly unseen, and of course not even considered by the Christians themselves. The Christians view themselves as Gods annointed, thus they are unable to see their own contribution to the damaged view of God that humanity has adopted. This is why satan has been so susscessful at using churchs, because the deception is uniquely masked and brilliantly hidden. satans deception on churchs has been so masterfully done, that I suspect that God himself is involved in it. Because its just been too well done, too powerfully done. 99% of Christians can read what I just wrote, and still not believe it, still willnot be able to see it, its just that well established.
And it has effectively " Spiritually Crippled" and handicapped humanity. Rev. 12:9" Satan has deceived the WHOLE WORLD", and has craftly used believers to accomplish this most powerful feat.
And I want to examine that further. Peace.
Christianity has set the world stage and has made the most popular impression about God on peoples minds, thus in my view, it has done the greatest damage to the human physce concerning God. This unusual contridiction, the very followers of God actually heaping damage on Gods created human population, is mostly unseen, and of course not even considered by the Christians themselves. The Christians view themselves as Gods annointed, thus they are unable to see their own contribution to the damaged view of God that humanity has adopted. This is why satan has been so susscessful at using churchs, because the deception is uniquely masked and brilliantly hidden. satans deception on churchs has been so masterfully done, that I suspect that God himself is involved in it. Because its just been too well done, too powerfully done. 99% of Christians can read what I just wrote, and still not believe it, still willnot be able to see it, its just that well established.
And it has effectively " Spiritually Crippled" and handicapped humanity. Rev. 12:9" Satan has deceived the WHOLE WORLD", and has craftly used believers to accomplish this most powerful feat.
And I want to examine that further. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
The bible is misunderstood and highly interpited to be a book of " Blessings and Curses", which gives God the reputation of responding and reacting as if he is " Human." The human standard of blessings and curses is totally unmerciful. You can look at and examine Christianity and see this in its fullness. Christians will judge you based on their standard of Good and Evil, and the Hell punishing doctrine is the evidence of how their hearts think and feel about judgement. The teach that if you do not believe, then your dammed to hell, because they think thats how God is.
Jesus said in his communication to his Father in John 17:25, " Oh Righteous Father, the World HAS NOT KNOWN THEE!" Whenever Jesus talks to God, the conversation is true and Holy, so the world has NOT known God, and still does not know him. People don't know God, and believe me, a very significant amount of those who are claiming to know God, do not know him. Don't let them fool you, because they fool themselves. Any person who looks at the world of unbelieving sinners with a mindset of condemnation, does NOT know God! They do not know his plan or his saving power. And surely not his Heart.
People are killing the gospel message because they are willing to kill sinful humanity. Their minds are steeped in doom and selfish salvation. Not knowing God, they have perverted the gospel message of Salvation, and changed it from a free gift, into a gift mixed with blessings and curses, based on blessings and curses. A terrible error of the description of the author of Salvation.
And I want to go into that. Peace.
Jesus said in his communication to his Father in John 17:25, " Oh Righteous Father, the World HAS NOT KNOWN THEE!" Whenever Jesus talks to God, the conversation is true and Holy, so the world has NOT known God, and still does not know him. People don't know God, and believe me, a very significant amount of those who are claiming to know God, do not know him. Don't let them fool you, because they fool themselves. Any person who looks at the world of unbelieving sinners with a mindset of condemnation, does NOT know God! They do not know his plan or his saving power. And surely not his Heart.
People are killing the gospel message because they are willing to kill sinful humanity. Their minds are steeped in doom and selfish salvation. Not knowing God, they have perverted the gospel message of Salvation, and changed it from a free gift, into a gift mixed with blessings and curses, based on blessings and curses. A terrible error of the description of the author of Salvation.
And I want to go into that. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Again Jesus in John 12:32;" And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men to Myself." Well why Jesus, why draw all humans to you? To condemn them if they do not believe? Well thats what Christianity seems to think, that people have the free will to choose where they will spend eternity, and that Gods will is handicapped by the free will decision of humans. That God , for the sake of free will, will stand idlely by while billions of stupid humans will choose the wrong destiny. The most insane discription of Gods common sense that I have ever heard. God is not stupid. Oh but humans are.
Jesus will draw all of humanity to himself, hes already been crucified. But there has NEVER been a time in human history that all of humanity has been drawn to Christ, NEVER! So this prophecy is future tense. It may not seem so now, but this is the actual future of all of humanity, to be called by Christ to his Father God. Peace.
Jesus will draw all of humanity to himself, hes already been crucified. But there has NEVER been a time in human history that all of humanity has been drawn to Christ, NEVER! So this prophecy is future tense. It may not seem so now, but this is the actual future of all of humanity, to be called by Christ to his Father God. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
In 1 Tim.2:6, Jesus is said to have given himself as a " Ransom for ALL". As I divorce myself from all doctrines that look to limit his reach to only a few, the bible has shifted many gears in my belief. I started thinking to myself;" Is God really going to Save everyone, is that how God really is?" This opened my heart to God, and opened his Heart to me. My whole mindset was changed, but I could hardly believe it. But yet its right here in the bible. In Romans 5:18 it teachs that because of ONE mans sin, all men are condemned, which is in no manner of thinking fair. Conversely, because of ONE mans sacrifice, ALL men are destined to be saved, which does not seem fair to those who have lived their lives in complette obedience to God. But the one unfairness wipes out the other, which is what makes this so hard to believe. THIS is the real mystery of the Gospel, that all mankind is destined to be saved, no matter what.
Its just simply unbelivable, and certainly not taught. Yet in 1John 2:2, Jesus is called the Propitition for " Our Sins", meaning believers, and not " Ours only", but for the whole world. This is even more unbelievable and rasies many questions. Is Jesus truly the Lamb of God who " Takes away the Sins of the World", John 1:29, or is he just taking away the sins of only those who believe? Jesus himself said he came not for the righteous, but for the sinners. Well if he came for the sinners, I am safe because that includes me. And YOU!
As religions seek to limit Gods Salvation only to themselves, this world is in desperate need of a Savior and God who will secure EVERYONE! Universal Health care is NEEDED on earth, and Universal Salvation is need all the more.
And Gods hand or mind is not short on providing the world what it needs. Peace.
Its just simply unbelivable, and certainly not taught. Yet in 1John 2:2, Jesus is called the Propitition for " Our Sins", meaning believers, and not " Ours only", but for the whole world. This is even more unbelievable and rasies many questions. Is Jesus truly the Lamb of God who " Takes away the Sins of the World", John 1:29, or is he just taking away the sins of only those who believe? Jesus himself said he came not for the righteous, but for the sinners. Well if he came for the sinners, I am safe because that includes me. And YOU!
As religions seek to limit Gods Salvation only to themselves, this world is in desperate need of a Savior and God who will secure EVERYONE! Universal Health care is NEEDED on earth, and Universal Salvation is need all the more.
And Gods hand or mind is not short on providing the world what it needs. Peace.
The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.
Jesus has the Keys of death and hades, Rev.1:8, so those things cannot stop his Salvation. He has the Power to subject all humans to himself, Phil.3:21, so stubborn stupid wrong free will choices of sinful unbelieving humanity cannot stop him from changing a human against their will. They who have no sense to serve God, NEED him MORE than believers, and even these are covered, in Col.1:20 Jesus RECONCILES ALL THINGS to himself. He has put away sin in Heb. 9:26, and NO religious beliefs can pin any condemning sin on humanity. Jesus gave his flesh as bread FOR THE WORLD, John 6:51, no selfish greedy salvation hordeing believer can take Salvation from a sinner. No " Brother of a Prodical Son" can make the Father not welcome sinning family members back into the house.
In Gal.2:6, God has no partiality, meaning he is not just accepting application from believers. His Salvation is extended to ALL people, Titus 2:11. God will be ALL IN ALL, 1Corinth. 15:24-28, NO ONE will be excluded from his grace and Loving Heart.
This spells good for unbelieving sinful humanity, there IS Hope for everyone, and there is Hope for you. No matter what you have done, no matter how long you have done it, YOUR destiny is to be RESTORED by Christ, Acts 3:21, and no christian cynicism can stop God from restoring you.
In Gal.2:6, God has no partiality, meaning he is not just accepting application from believers. His Salvation is extended to ALL people, Titus 2:11. God will be ALL IN ALL, 1Corinth. 15:24-28, NO ONE will be excluded from his grace and Loving Heart.
This spells good for unbelieving sinful humanity, there IS Hope for everyone, and there is Hope for you. No matter what you have done, no matter how long you have done it, YOUR destiny is to be RESTORED by Christ, Acts 3:21, and no christian cynicism can stop God from restoring you.