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Today is a celebration in the Netherlands it's Liberation day.

On the 4th of May every year we remember those who died in WW2 and on the 5th we celebrate our Liberation from the Nazi's the day the Canadian and British troops marched in and ended the occupation.

Yesterday as always flags hung at half mast all day and then at 8pm everything in Holland was silent cars pulled off the road, buses pulled over and there was no one to be seen on the street all TV and Radio stations observe the 2 min silence.

Today there are concerts in the parks all over the country and flags are hung out in celebration and pride.

But there are less flags this year than ever before a couple of years ago in my street every house would have had a flag out, now its maybe 1 in 3.

It used to be a public holiday every year now its downgraded to once every 5 years.

Is this the reason for the lack of national pride or are people just not interested?

Is it time to stop marking the end of the war?

I am not a big flag waver I'm not much interested in politics but somehow the lack of flags moves me to sadness. As if this country is losing it's identity, its pride, its history.

Our British National Day of Remembrance has always been based on Armistice Day, the 11th of November, the end of World War 1, but I'm quite sure it's never been a national holiday - we schedule our parades to our War Memorials on the second Sunday of November and observe a two minute silence at 11am on the 11th. France takes that day in November as a National Holiday.

The Netherlands were very like the Swiss, I think, in their adoption of neutrality, but World War Two ended that. For some reason the Axis chose to invade the Netherlands but not to invade Switzerland, though in World War One it had invaded neither. It's odd how the fate and future of an entire nation can find itself at the whim of such a small group of foreigners.

I hope your people and government continue with your commemorations, what happened was a huge outrage to such a comparatively small, indefensible and unoffending country.

On a footnote: the war in Iraq has now lasted longer than WW ll.

The significance of fighting in that war was clear and the enemy was atrocious.

While this enemy is equally atrocious, 6 years later were still reacting to an incident and we ousted the wrong leader.

To my knowledge weve all but given up on finding the perpetrator of 9/11.

In the meantime our military is sent to fire on elusive shadows with the only end in sight being waiting for a new administration with common sense and less of a personal agenda.

The purpose of this war is based on bad intelligence and fueled by weak minds and large egos.

Nothing is clear about this war.

Nomad;856704 wrote: On a footnote: the war in Iraq has now lasted longer than WW ll.


As a minor factual correction, while US involvement in World War Two lasted 4 years on and around the islands of the Pacific, or 10 months in Europe, the major players were tied up for rather longer. A year and two thirds longer in our case. For the British, the war in Iraq will exceed the duration of World War Two when we reach December.

Ok.

I think that if Europeans ever forget the lessons of WWII, then we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes, a sobering thought in a world armed with Nuclear weapons. I would be all for keeping commemorations of the significant national events on a high profile, as I think they are a healthy thing for people to commemorate or celebrate, as long as there is a recognition that there is no monopoly on suffering.

As for Iraq Nomad, what can anyone say that hasn't already been said, foolish, fooslish and again foolish, I just hope that both Iraq and indeed America can one day recover from this diaster.

Nomad;856712 wrote: Ok.
No, I spent a while thinking and it's not Ok. "While this enemy is equally atrocious" is a toxic mis-statement by any reasonable criteria.

spot;856729 wrote: No, I spent a while thinking and it's not Ok. "While this enemy is equally atrocious" is a toxic mis-statement by any reasonable criteria.


No.

This enemy is as vile as they come.

Whats mis-directed is our broad response to them.

I didnt need to spend much time coming to that conclusion.

Youre reference to my statement being toxic is over zealous and I dont think you did put much thought into it.

The only difference is that the Germans were organized and they had the wealth to carry out diabolical plans on a continental scale.

While this enemy is doing somewhat the same thing they dont have a real home or base from which to implement their plans.

But they have Allah on their side.



The way in which things are similar is the majority of the population is once again standing by and watching it happen.

spot;856695 wrote: Our British National Day of Remembrance has always been based on Armistice Day, the 11th of November, the end of World War 1, but I'm quite sure it's never been a national holiday - we schedule our parades to our War Memorials on the second Sunday of November and observe a two minute silence at 11am on the 11th. France takes that day in November as a National Holiday.

The Netherlands were very like the Swiss, I think, in their adoption of neutrality, but World War Two ended that. For some reason the Axis chose to invade the Netherlands but not to invade Switzerland, though in World War One it had invaded neither. It's odd how the fate and future of an entire nation can find itself at the whim of such a small group of foreigners.

I hope your people and government continue with your commemorations, what happened was a huge outrage to such a comparatively small, indefensible and unoffending country.


The Germans chose to invade the Netherlands but not Switzerland because of the mountains. It would have been too difficult to dislodge a determined force from the mountains. And, The Germans always picked off the easy wins first. It kept up their moral.

hoppy;856758 wrote: The Germans chose to invade the Netherlands but not Switzerland because of the mountains. It would have been too difficult to dislodge a determined force from the mountains. And, The Germans always picked off the easy wins first. It kept up their moral.


If that were an accurate description it would explain why the Netherlands wasn't invaded in World War One. I don't quite see your reasoning as far as that goes.

spot;856764 wrote: If that were an accurate description it would explain why the Netherlands wasn't invaded in World War One. I don't quite see your reasoning as far as that goes.


I thought we were talking WW2. Let's get on the same page.

Nomad;856734 wrote: No.

This enemy is as vile as they come.

Whats mis-directed is our broad response to them.

I didnt need to spend much time coming to that conclusion.

Youre reference to my statement being toxic is over zealous and I dont think you did put much thought into it.

The only difference is that the Germans were organized and they had the wealth to carry out diabolical plans on a continental scale.

While this enemy is doing somewhat the same thing they dont have a real home or base from which to implement their plans.

But they have Allah on their side.



The way in which things are similar is the majority of the population is once again standing by and watching it happen.You will, I hope, excuse me for misunderstanding you. I thought your "While this enemy is equally atrocious" referred in some fashion to Saddam Hussein or the Iraqis.

You refer then, I take it, to Osama bin Laden's cell-structured anti-American organization? I'm not sure how one can compare something so feeble and ineffectual with Nazi Germany, to be entirely honest. It would be like equating Charles Manson with Pol Pot when all they really have in common is that most people dislike what developed from their entirely different ideologies.

hoppy;856766 wrote: I thought we were talking WW2. Let's get on the same page.


If you go back and re-read post #2 and reflect for a moment then I'd be interested to hear your opinion as to why "the Axis chose to invade the Netherlands but not to invade Switzerland, though in World War One it had invaded neither", which is what we were actually discussing. Let's get on the same page. Mountains may still be relevant, who can tell, but "The Germans always picked off the easy wins first. It kept up their moral" seems somewhat leaky at least so far as "always" is concerned. Always was, I think, your word and not mine?

You even *quoted* my passage about World War One!

spot;856768 wrote: If you go back and re-read post #2 and reflect for a moment then I'd be interested to hear your opinion as to why "the Axis chose to invade the Netherlands but not to invade Switzerland, though in World War One it had invaded neither", which is what we were actually discussing. Let's get on the same page. Mountains may still be relevant, who can tell, but "The Germans always picked off the easy wins first. It kept up their moral" seems somewhat leaky at least so far as "always" is concerned. Always was, I think, your word and not mine?

You even *quoted* my passage about World War One!


OK. The word "always" shouldn't have been used. As far as WW1 goes, Germany had different leaders, ideas and agendas than in WW2. WW! Germany had many jews in their ranks. Not so in WW2. See? Different leaders, ideas and agendas.

Victoria;856684 wrote: Today is a celebration in the Netherlands it's Liberation day.

On the 4th of May every year we remember those who died in WW2 and on the 5th we celebrate our Liberation from the Nazi's the day the Canadian and British troops marched in and ended the occupation.

Yesterday as always flags hung at half mast all day and then at 8pm everything in Holland was silent cars pulled off the road, buses pulled over and there was no one to be seen on the street all TV and Radio stations observe the 2 min silence.

Today there are concerts in the parks all over the country and flags are hung out in celebration and pride.

But there are less flags this year than ever before a couple of years ago in my street every house would have had a flag out, now its maybe 1 in 3.

It used to be a public holiday every year now its downgraded to once every 5 years.

Is this the reason for the lack of national pride or are people just not interested?

Is it time to stop marking the end of the war?

I am not a big flag waver I'm not much interested in politics but somehow the lack of flags moves me to sadness. As if this country is losing it's identity, its pride, its history.


It's now two generation ago. I grew up with parents, that lived and in the cases of the males fought through ww2. They had parents who lived or fought through ww1. There was one generation between ww1 & 2. almost three have now passed since the last war history comes alive when you know someone who was actually there. The emotional memory is less but I agree with you that people should remember if only to stop it happening again.

Victoria;856684 wrote: Today is a celebration in the Netherlands it's Liberation day.

On the 4th of May every year we remember those who died in WW2 and on the 5th we celebrate our Liberation from the Nazi's the day the Canadian and British troops marched in and ended the occupation.

Yesterday as always flags hung at half mast all day and then at 8pm everything in Holland was silent cars pulled off the road, buses pulled over and there was no one to be seen on the street all TV and Radio stations observe the 2 min silence.

Today there are concerts in the parks all over the country and flags are hung out in celebration and pride.

But there are less flags this year than ever before a couple of years ago in my street every house would have had a flag out, now its maybe 1 in 3.

It used to be a public holiday every year now its downgraded to once every 5 years.

Is this the reason for the lack of national pride or are people just not interested?

Is it time to stop marking the end of the war?

I am not a big flag waver I'm not much interested in politics but somehow the lack of flags moves me to sadness. As if this country is losing it's identity, its pride, its history.





We should never 'wind down' our commemorations. The human race needs a constant reminder of the futility and devastation of war to, hopefully, prevent further world wars and risk the total destruction of the world with nuclear attacks!