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A halloween scene has a mannequin dressed like Sarah Palin hanging by a noose and John McCain emerging from the chimney surrounded by fake flames in West Hollywood!

An Obama effigy was hung from a tree in Fairfield Ohio!

Are these hate crimes or freedom of expression?

Hope6;1038279 wrote: A halloween scene has a mannequin dressed like Sarah Palin hanging by a noose and John McCain emerging from the chimney surrounded by fake flames in West Hollywood!

An Obama effigy was hung from a tree in Fairfield Ohio!

Are these hate crimes or freedom of expression?


Well they can be grounds for a restraining order but they'll never hold up in court as crimes...

I will say that they represent a lack of moral integrity and the people responsible have the intellect resembling that of a pig in heat!!!!!!!...



:wah:...

Hope6;1038279 wrote: A halloween scene has a mannequin dressed like Sarah Palin hanging by a noose and John McCain emerging from the chimney surrounded by fake flames in West Hollywood!

An Obama effigy was hung from a tree in Fairfield Ohio!

Are these hate crimes or freedom of expression?


It's freedom of speech on all accounts. But it is in very bad taste. And I hope that children are not being allowed at this scene...as children frequently copy what they see when playing.

Its not a very poignant statement. Since the guy did it in his own front yard Im not sure the ability to display his art as he calls it is going to be worth the trade off in the long run. He still has to live next to his neighbors next month.

yeah i think it would fall under freedom of expression too, but it's in very bad taste!

from what i've seen on the news, the neighbors aren't to happy.

i know i wouldn't want my child seeing this kind of display!

Politicians have always been fair game from lampooning cartoons to effigies. In the UK on the fifth of November we burn effigies of a catholic to commemorate a failed terrorist attack (that's what it would be called nowadays anyway) on the houses of parliament.

Hate crime is a peculiarly american term but given your history is the hate bit not just the swinging effigy of obama?

gmc;1038480 wrote: Politicians have always been fair game from lampooning cartoons to effigies. In the UK on the fifth of November we burn effigies of a catholic to commemorate a failed terrorist attack (that's what it would be called nowadays anyway) on the houses of parliament.

Hate crime is a peculiarly american term but given your history is the hate bit not just the swinging effigy of obama?


I took the kids one year to the big public firework display at 'Lewes' on the Level just outside of Brighton and you'd normally see the kids with hundreds of guy Fawkes effigy's ready for tossing on the bonfires. That year, i saw kids dragging enormous effigy's of Margaret Thatcher through the street, all wearing the 'spitting Image' masks cheering as they lobbed here on the bonfire's. That was fun!!!

gmc;1038480 wrote: Politicians have always been fair game from lampooning cartoons to effigies. In the UK on the fifth of November we burn effigies of a catholic to commemorate a failed terrorist attack (that's what it would be called nowadays anyway) on the houses of parliament.

Hate crime is a peculiarly american term but given your history is the hate bit not just the swinging effigy of obama?


yeah the Obama effigy hanging from a tree could be considered a hate crime considering our history i guess, but the one of Palin and McCain is just bad taste i think.

I saw that on TV this morning. Bad taste but really it is freedom of speech. Ugly as it is.

Effigies were originally devised and used to control the person it was fashioned after. It would not be a form of expresssion but an artefact for manipulation. This, to me, is not good at all.

Are you sure they are effigies?

I have seen the news story. Any freedom we have has certain responsibilites that go with it. That includes "freedom of speech." To present anyone hanging from a noose is bad taste. IMO

Hope6;1038279 wrote: A halloween scene has a mannequin dressed like Sarah Palin hanging by a noose and John McCain emerging from the chimney surrounded by fake flames in West Hollywood!

An Obama effigy was hung from a tree in Fairfield Ohio!

Are these hate crimes or freedom of expression?


Saw that on Sky News last night.

Interesting to say the least:-2:-2

qsducks;1038635 wrote: I saw that on TV this morning. Bad taste but really it is freedom of speech. Ugly as it is.


yeah i wouldn't want Jacob to see something like that and i bet a lot of other parents don't want their children seeing it either!

OpenMind;1038707 wrote: Effigies were originally devised and used to control the person it was fashioned after. It would not be a form of expresssion but an artefact for manipulation. This, to me, is not good at all.

Are you sure they are effigies?


well the people on the news were referring to them as effigies. thats where i got the name from.

along-for-the-ride;1038859 wrote: I have seen the news story. Any freedom we have has certain responsibilites that go with it. That includes "freedom of speech." To present anyone hanging from a noose is bad taste. IMO


yeah bad taste for sure!

we have a popular halloween decoration around here, someone takes a round bale of hay and stuffs a pair of trousers and attaches a pair of shoes and makes it look like someone has gotten rolled up in the hay while it was being baled!

very gruesome for us because baling hay is a dangerous thing, and it looks like someone has been killed, but it's not representing a specific person.

Hope6;1038934 wrote: well the people on the news were referring to them as effigies. thats where i got the name from.


It seems that I am wrong as to its origins. I've just looked it up on Dictionary.com and found these definitions:

ef⋅fi⋅gy

   /ˈɛfɪdʒi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ef-i-jee] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun, plural -gies. 1.a representation or image, esp. sculptured, as on a monument.2.a crude representation of someone disliked, used for purposes of ridicule.—Idiom 3.in effigy, in public view in the form of an effigy: a leader hanged in effigy by the mob.

Origin:

1530–40; (ef- + fig- shape, form; see figure ) + -ia -y 3



effigy

1539, from L. effigies "copy or imitation of something, likeness," related to effingere "mold, fashion, portray," from ex- "out" + fingere "to form, shape." The Latin word was regarded as plural and the -s was lopped off by 18c.



effigy

nouna representation of a person (especially in the form of sculpture); "the coin bears an effigy of Lincoln"; "the emperor's tomb had his image carved in stone"



Interesting. I first came across the word in a comic when I was a child. The effigy in question was a voodoo doll. Later references in books and films seemed to back up what I believed an effigy to be.







So, my answer to your original question would be that the effigies of Palin and Obama are, indeed, a form of expression, but I wouldn't want my daughter to see them - not until she's old enough to understand.

OpenMind;1039912 wrote: It seems that I am wrong as to its origins. I've just looked it up on Dictionary.com and found these definitions:

ef⋅fi⋅gy

   /ˈɛfɪdʒi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ef-i-jee] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun, plural -gies. 1.a representation or image, esp. sculptured, as on a monument.2.a crude representation of someone disliked, used for purposes of ridicule.—Idiom 3.in effigy, in public view in the form of an effigy: a leader hanged in effigy by the mob.

Origin:

1530–40; (ef- + fig- shape, form; see figure ) + -ia -y 3



effigy

1539, from L. effigies "copy or imitation of something, likeness," related to effingere "mold, fashion, portray," from ex- "out" + fingere "to form, shape." The Latin word was regarded as plural and the -s was lopped off by 18c.



effigy

nouna representation of a person (especially in the form of sculpture); "the coin bears an effigy of Lincoln"; "the emperor's tomb had his image carved in stone"



Interesting. I first came across the word in a comic when I was a child. The effigy in question was a voodoo doll. Later references in books and films seemed to back up what I believed an effigy to be.







So, my answer to your original question would be that the effigies of Palin and Obama are, indeed, a form of expression, but I wouldn't want my daughter to see them - not until she's old enough to understand.


i agree with you on that! i don't want my son seeing anything like that either!