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Is there a list of rules somewhere about tags? Can we tell who tags a post or thread? CAN we tag a particular post, or must it only be an entire thread?

Accountable;1062860 wrote: Is there a list of rules somewhere about tags? Can we tell who tags a post or thread? CAN we tag a particular post, or must it only be an entire thread?


We cannot see who put tags in, unless of course its ours, however g-man can tell.

We can only tag a thread...as far as I know.



I had added 'tags' to your thread......just so you know.

g-man would know best I think.

If you click the "Edit Tag" on the right side of the screen at the bottom of the post page it opens to the tag page. It displays the current tags for the thread. If you put your mouse over the different tags it displays who posted the tag.

CARLA;1063772 wrote: If you click the "Edit Tag" on the right side of the screen at the bottom of the post page it opens to the tag page. It displays the current tags for the thread. If you put your mouse over the different tags it displays who posted the tag.


didn't work for me?

See if this picture helps.

Attached files PICTURE OF TAGS.doc (111.5 KB) 

CARLA;1063777 wrote: See if this picture helps.


maybe only mods have these settings.

Yes Odie your correct, only mods can see who wrote the tags.



The tag function is supposed to be used as a bookmark on threads on a forum.



People often select different tags to describe the same item: for example, items related to a version of Apple's OS may be tagged "Mac OS X", "Leopard", "software", and a variety of other terms. This flexibility allows people to classify their collections of items in the way that they find useful, but the personalised variety of terms can make it difficult for people to find comprehensive information about a subject; in order to catch every relevant item, they may have to search several times using different keywords. Users also have to decide whether each tagged item is actually relevant to what they're looking for.



They must not be used for members to have a dig at other members with and members should not be using other members names in a derogitory or insulting way.



It's simply a quick search tool for a whole thread and we have asked if rules can be added to the Forums TOS.

It's an alternative way in from the home page and it's a quick index from a thread to related threads.

Whether the tags are well-indexed or not depends on the members. We could have made them moderator-only and slowly built up a well-indexed tag set but it would have added to the moderator workload and it would potentially have been one-sided. Making it a member-created index could potentially lead to a far more extensive and useful index but the quality is entirely up to the members themselves. I've only seen one or two tags so far which have been useful to me.

There's no point duplicating the Search function. There's no point, for example, in tagging every thread which contains the word Obama with the tag "Obama" because the exact same information is available through Search, it merely duplicates the function while increasing the effort. There's no point tagging every thread which contains a post by a given member either, the "find all posts" from the member profile does that.

Your use of "spot hates America" tags to bring up a list of threads in which I've been critical of the Bush administration is one of the few useful applications I've seen tags put to on FG so far though I might depreciate the label. I added a couple of threads which you missed.

I doubt very much whether a coherent list of useful tag labels could be agreed by the membership as a whole. If anyone does make a label which they find useful though, do go back and tag all the relevant threads and make that tag worth clicking. A tag isn't owned by a single member.

spot;1063817 wrote: Your use of "spot hates America" tags to bring up a list of threads in which I've been critical of the Bush administration is one of the few useful applications I've seen tags put to on FG so far though I might depreciate the label. I added a couple of threads which you missed.In that case at least one mod has overstepped his/her bounds of deleting spam messages. She/he apparently didn't like my tag and, rather than finding the balls to send me a pm to change it (since it is an easy thing for a mod to find out the author of a tag), finding the balls to give me an infraction or something, or even finding the balls to edit the tag title to something less offensive, this mod decided to delete the list. I worked very hard building it because it was a very long list that reaches back years.



I wonder if that mod can find the balls to contact me now. :yh_think

Accountable;1063864 wrote: I worked very hard building it because it was a very long list that reaches back years.Your war-criminal administration reaches back years, that's why, and I worked very hard writing the posts. I wouldn't for one minute hesitate to draw comparisons between people like Donald Rumsfeld and those defendants at Nuremberg who faced charges of waging aggressive war.

I'd no idea your tags had been deleted, nor do I know who removed them. I hope they show up here and explain themselves.

I've created indexes before. Part of the trick in keeping an index tidy is to limit the number of entries and maximize the number of references, to the extent that such limits are meaningful. That involves re-using existing tags whenever one exists that's appropriate to the thread, rather than inventing many synonyms. How to do that when no master-list can be maintained by the members themselves is the problem.

CARLA;1063772 wrote: If you click the "Edit Tag" on the right side of the screen at the bottom of the post page it opens to the tag page. It displays the current tags for the thread. If you put your mouse over the different tags it displays who posted the tag.


Oh dear, looks like I'm in trouble now :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

oscar;1064406 wrote: Oh dear, looks like I'm in trouble now :yh_rotfl:yh_rotflSo whats new:rolleyes::yh_rotfl

oscar;1064406 wrote: Oh dear, looks like I'm in trouble now :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl


FYI.........only mods can read them!:sneaky:

run for your life!:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Accountable, there's a couple of moderators involved in the deletion. They'll arrive here in their own good time I expect. I'm sensing that the wording of your tag caused umbrage which, I'd thought, had led at least one of them to PM you. It's possible the PM wasn't sent. It's possible that the deletions were done by someone else thinking the deletions had been agreed on with you.

It makes a strange picture of one moderator going around adding more - me - and another trailing behind deleting them. This is a good place to decide how to handle tags as indexes and tag text as commentary, let's press on and get it solved here.

Accountable;1063864 wrote: In that case at least one mod has overstepped his/her bounds of deleting spam messages. She/he apparently didn't like my tag and, rather than finding the balls to send me a pm to change it (since it is an easy thing for a mod to find out the author of a tag), finding the balls to give me an infraction or something, or even finding the balls to edit the tag title to something less offensive, this mod decided to delete the list. I worked very hard building it because it was a very long list that reaches back years.



I wonder if that mod can find the balls to contact me now. :yh_think


I have deleted some of your "Spot hates America " tags.

I have no balls to offer you and have no idea as to how I could edit Spot hates America to something less offensive, your were the tag creator, you think of something less offensive. I wouldn't dream of using tags to be abusive to a fellow member.

I deleted them after a discussion in the mod section whereas I was led to believe you had been sent a pm about why you were not to carry on creating similar tags and that those tags were being deleted. I came across a few and also deleted them as I thought they had been missed or were new tags.

The tags are there for a reference only and not to be abused to have a dig at another member with.

The front page had a tag cloud with "Spot hates America" in huge lettering. That could stop new members joining if they think members are anti American and also members may just join to abuse that member.

We haven't just been deleting your tags Accountable, other people also abused the tag system and if a mod saw it, It would be deleted.

bump

Accountable;1063864 wrote: In that case at least one mod has overstepped his/her bounds of deleting spam messages. She/he apparently didn't like my tag and, rather than finding the balls to send me a pm to change it (since it is an easy thing for a mod to find out the author of a tag), finding the balls to give me an infraction or something, or even finding the balls to edit the tag title to something less offensive, this mod decided to delete the list. I worked very hard building it because it was a very long list that reaches back years.



I wonder if that mod can find the balls to contact me now. :yh_think
I didn't delete any spot hates america tags...



And I'm hoping like hell that you are not about to tell me that the 'ks is a commie' that i deleted was your handiwork, acct:-2 If so, I was probably the first to delete anyones tags - as it was upsetting and offensive to other members trying to have a discussion in the thread. And I only deleted it because I mistakenly thought that it was an anonymous drive-by smack..



It was after I deleted that tag that I was informed that I could see who had put it up and make no mistake sweetie, you would have gotten a very shocked pm from me informing you of my actions if I'd thought for even one moment YOU would be tagging crap in that manner.



Now, please tell me YOU are not the asswipe that's been going after shelbel and friends in the whining and complaining thread... because if you tell me you have I'll be left feeling like that neighbor standing on my porch looking into the camera telling the reporters how shocked they are... you know that neighbor... "MR SMITH is absolutely the last person on earth I would ever have suspected of doing something like that.."



So far as I'm concerned, if folks can't play tag nicely, don't play at all. SHA as a tag would have worked just as well and we both know that you are smart enough to think of stuff like that on your own... the user could laugh to themselves and yet no one else is distracted..



Personally, I hope they can turn it off. Because it's just too frickin' depressing to find out its adults I like and respect..

Accountable;1062860 wrote: Is there a list of rules somewhere about tags? Can we tell who tags a post or thread? CAN we tag a particular post, or must it only be an entire thread?


The tags are a relatively new feature and we're in the process of drafting the rule regarding this new feature, as it's obviously been abused.

Accountable;1063864 wrote: In that case at least one mod has overstepped his/her bounds of deleting spam messages. She/he apparently didn't like my tag and, rather than finding the balls to send me a pm to change it (since it is an easy thing for a mod to find out the author of a tag), finding the balls to give me an infraction or something, or even finding the balls to edit the tag title to something less offensive, this mod decided to delete the list. I worked very hard building it because it was a very long list that reaches back years.



I wonder if that mod can find the balls to contact me now. :yh_think


I had a PM drafted for you, days ago, Accountable, explaining all of this, that I was ready to send out immediately, but there was further discussion on the matter regarding how to approach the situation. I can assure you that no mod has over-stepped their authority here.

Here's the thing:

The tags are designed to provide better SEO value for a forum and to facilitate better searching and grouping of threads within the forum (just look below where there's a bar titled "Similar Threads").

With vBulletin there exists no central database of tag links other than our own internal pages. Think of the tags as relevant keywords that are relevant to a specific thread. We've got the base meta tags for the entire forum, but they won't necessarily reflect those of individual threads. The tags allow people to find topics on our forum that they may be searching for.

This is how the tag cloud appeared not so long ago:




That prominent tag phrase there at the bottom, has little to do with any threads I've seen here on the forum and it certainly doesn't represent the forum as a whole, yet there it stands larger than life. Aside from that it targets an individual member in a negative manner and therefore violates the forum rules. The mods who deleted your tags saw them for what they were; abusive and flaming, and reacted accordingly (and well within their bounds), as if they were posted in a post.

Due to the fact that a prominent tag such as this is given more weight by search engines, it effects our ranking and indexing negatively. If you had a thread titled "Spot Hates America" and had that key phrase listed in the tags for that particular thread , then this would not have been the case.

oscar;1064406 wrote: Oh dear, looks like I'm in trouble now :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
;)

I'm glad we have a thread on this subject now for everyone to read.

That spot claims he enjoys your little poke at him doesn't change that it harms the indexing of topics. I don't care if you spent five seconds, five minutes or five days coming up with the words you wrote, if it's flaming it's not allowed.

Aside from the childishness of using tags to flame, it really pisses me off. I now have to add a very cumbersome task to modding here because so many people have abused the tags we have to remember to check the tags on every single freaking thread that gets a reply now.

Thank you very much, Accountable. You've helped set a new level of annoying and I'm not impressed very easily.

okay now, spot thought we should express ourselves on this subject out here... I did.



This conversation should be about how we are using and should be using tags, not Accountable, IMO. Unfortunately, he brought the subject up - asked who done what, and I didn't want anyone under the impression that Chezzie is some rogue mod( she aint!), so I wanted to go on record that I have deleted one also and why.



Tags have been a pain in the ass for everyone but those entertaining themselves, since G-man brought them up in the Hunt..:p



I say kill them and bury them in the neighbors backyard.



To my mind, a tag is just an anonymous post on this site. If someone has something to say, they should be willing to back it up with their name.. and take their chances.



Indexing... please!:rolleyes:













So, to recap... G-Mans fault...

While I was reading the thread "Obama Assassinations" I saw a tag that said, "Spot hates America." I made a comment on that thread stating that I had asked who had posted that tag,ffs, it's flaming.





Here's what I said.....



Who put "Spot hates America" on the tags.....ffs post #58





........it's "flaming" and not true posted by Kathy Ellen...post #65



It truly bothered me that someone had posted that tag about Spot:(



I don't think that's what 'tags' should be about.

flopstock;1064644 wrote:

This conversation should be about how we are using and should be using tags, not Accountable, IMO.
True, as has been said, he's not the only abusing the tags. He is, however, the only one who has lashed out at the mods for doing our jobs in this instance.

This can be a constructive thread by explaining to members what the tags are for. I'm hoping, by clarifying that they are not anonymous to mods, we can also put an end to the abuse platform.

We currently do not have a list of rules regarding tags but common sense should dictate that the TOS rules apply. As they are not posts, they are collective descriptions of thread content, the editing of tags to reflect accurate content does not require personal attention or explanations if a mod deletes one. I don't think anyone who has properly used the tags needs to ponder whether or not their efforts will be erased.

Chezzie;1064448 wrote: I have deleted some of your "Spot hates America " tags.



[...]



I deleted them after a discussion in the mod section whereas I was led to believe you had been sent a pm about why you were not to carry on creating similar tags and that those tags were being deleted. I came across a few and also deleted them as I thought they had been missed or were new tags.
G-man;1064548 wrote: I had a PM drafted for you, days ago, Accountable, explaining all of this, that I was ready to send out immediately, but there was further discussion on the matter regarding how to approach the situation.
So it's a simple miscommunication. That's understandable; happens within any bureaucracy. I am a bit curious just how long this discussion's been going on, since they were all deleted, then I went back and rebuilt the list as best I could, then they were deleted again ... without my ever being pm'd at all. It had to have been weeks.

Any way of fixing your screwup by backtracking all those deletions and editing the tag title? I'd be satisfied with undeleting; I'll edit the titles myself.

Chezzie wrote: The front page had a tag cloud with "Spot hates America" in huge lettering. That could stop new members joining if they think members are anti American and also members may just join to abuse that member.At least one member IS anti-American. Spot hates America. I don't care if people join to abuse him or not.

flopstock;1064543 wrote: I didn't delete any spot hates america tags...



And I'm hoping like hell that you are not about to tell me that the 'ks is a commie' that i deleted was your handiwork, acct:-2 If so, I was probably the first to delete anyones tags - as it was upsetting and offensive to other members trying to have a discussion in the thread. And I only deleted it because I mistakenly thought that it was an anonymous drive-by smack..



It was after I deleted that tag that I was informed that I could see who had put it up and make no mistake sweetie, you would have gotten a very shocked pm from me informing you of my actions if I'd thought for even one moment YOU would be tagging crap in that manner.



Now, please tell me YOU are not the asswipe that's been going after shelbel and friends in the whining and complaining thread... because if you tell me you have I'll be left feeling like that neighbor standing on my porch looking into the camera telling the reporters how shocked they are... you know that neighbor... "MR SMITH is absolutely the last person on earth I would ever have suspected of doing something like that.."Nope. Different asswipe.

flopstock wrote: So far as I'm concerned, if folks can't play tag nicely, don't play at all. SHA as a tag would have worked just as well and we both know that you are smart enough to think of stuff like that on your own... the user could laugh to themselves and yet no one else is distracted..Yes, I'm smart enough to think of stuff like that, and I admit I was more than a little self-indulgent. The task was tedious, childish, and fun. The purpose was not only for me to find spot's old hypocritical & hateful posts so that I can point out specific instances when he speaks out of both sides of his mouth, and that spot hates America. It also serves as a quick and easy way to show the abundant proof to other members who may not read all his crap to know that spot hates America.

koan;1064597 wrote: Aside from the childishness of using tags to flame, it really pisses me off. I now have to add a very cumbersome task to modding here because so many people have abused the tags we have to remember to check the tags on every single freaking thread that gets a reply now.I don't give two shits that you find some aspect of an unnecessary job, that you volunteered to perform, cumbersome. Quit.

G-man;1064548 wrote: Here's the thing:

The tags are designed to provide better SEO value for a forum and to facilitate better searching and grouping of threads within the forum (just look below where there's a bar titled "Similar Threads"). I don't know what SEO value is. Does it help this huge group of mods, whose job (last I heard) was to watch for spammers and delete those threads, do that very easy job?



G-man wrote: This is how the tag cloud appeared not so long ago:




That prominent tag phrase there at the bottom, has little to do with any threads I've seen here on the forum and it certainly doesn't represent the forum as a whole, yet there it stands larger than life. Aside from that it targets an individual member in a negative manner and therefore violates the forum rules. The mods who deleted your tags saw them for what they were; abusive and flaming, and reacted accordingly (and well within their bounds), as if they were posted in a post. I had never heard of a "tag cloud" before this moment. Can't say it would have changed anything. I'm also not sure you changed anything by deleting my tags. the phrase "spot hates America" is still there. Enter "spot h" in the Edit tags area and "spot hates America" pops up. I suspect it still pops up in the clouds as well. I'm sure there's some way to delete it out of that whachacallit list that does that.

Kathy Ellen;1064653 wrote: While I was reading the thread "Obama Assassinations" I saw a tag that said, "Spot hates America." I made a comment on that thread stating that I had asked who had posted that tag,ffs, it's flaming.





Here's what I said.....



Who put "Spot hates America" on the tags.....ffs post #58





........it's "flaming" and not true posted by Kathy Ellen...post #65



It truly bothered me that someone had posted that tag about Spot:(



I don't think that's what 'tags' should be about.I saw that post, and thought about responding to it, but the conversation had moved on before I saw it and I didn't want to sidetrack it.

By the way, it is true that spot hates America. Had you clicked on the tag before it was deleted, apparently by multiple mods, you would have seen a list about a page and a half long where spot proves that he hates America with his own words.

What you are missing here is that all the mods agree that it is an abuse of the tags feature.

Are you insisting on your right to flame members via the tags? That's what I'm hearing. I'm having trouble believing that this argument is taking place.

You wanted the mods to have some "balls" and infract you. If that's what you're after I can spare us all some time and just do it now.



regarding the source of your obsession here:

You're a teacher, Accountable, I'd expect you to be aware that truth is subjective. What you feel is so important a truth that you're willing to be infracted for saying it ("spot hates america") is not a truth. It is a personal conclusion that you have reached all on your own. If you want to test your theory you'll have to find a more subtle approach that doesn't foist your opinion on the forum as if it came straight from God to you. I've seen no such evidence.

Yes, I'm smart enough to think of stuff like that, and I admit I was more than a little self-indulgent. The task was tedious, childish, and fun. The purpose was not only for me to find spot's old hypocritical & hateful posts so that I can point out specific instances when he speaks out of both sides of his mouth, and that spot hates America. It also serves as a quick and easy way to show the abundant proof to other members who may not read all his crap to know that spot hates America.






First off, I am relieved that you weren't doing the other..:-4 but I'd like you to consider this..

If your tags are okay, will I have a valid objection when someone decides to tag my stuff with flopstock is a whore. I am pretty pro sex, in case you've never noticed dear.... Someone who is a little more conservative on the subject, could conceivably go back and read my comments and decide that this is what they believe to be a truth about me that needs sharing.

flopstock;1065149 wrote: First off, I am relieved that you weren't doing the other..:-4 but I'd like you to consider this..

If your tags are okay, will I have a valid objection when someone decides to tag my stuff with flopstock is a whore. I am pretty pro sex, in case you've never noticed dear.... Someone who is a little more conservative on the subject, could conceivably go back and read my comments and decide that this is what they believe to be a truth about me that needs sharing.
Dangit!! You just ruined the one and only tag I had thought up to use..



I guess I will go with YZGI IS A WHORE. Yeah that seems to work..

koan;1065107 wrote: What you are missing here is that all the mods agree that it is an abuse of the tags feature.



Are you insisting on your right to flame members via the tags? That's what I'm hearing. I'm having trouble believing that this argument is taking place.That's because it's not. :rolleyes:



koan wrote: You wanted the mods to have some "balls" and infract you. If that's what you're after I can spare us all some time and just do it now.You forgot to tell me I have another think coming.

flopstock;1065149 wrote: First off, I am relieved that you weren't doing the other..:-4 but I'd like you to consider this..

If your tags are okay, will I have a valid objection when someone decides to tag my stuff with flopstock is a whore. I am pretty pro sex, in case you've never noticed dear....I've hoid some tings, yeh. [smilie=2,22,31] flopstock wrote: Someone who is a little more conservative on the subject, could conceivably go back and read my comments and decide that this is what they believe to be a truth about me that needs sharing.Point taken. I don't believe the two situations quite parallel since spot's hating America isn't a morality call. As I said, I was self-indulgent and can use a less provocative tag.

Accountable;1065650 wrote: Point taken. I don't believe the two situations quite parallel since spot's hating America isn't a morality call. As I said, I was self-indulgent and can use a less provocative tag.
Is this resolved now?

If you feel you have proof of your statement, the normal thing to do is to start a new thread in which you link to all the posts he's made that you think are the proof. This method gives spot a place to respond to the accusation. As with all threads, it is possible to approach the matter in a polite, effective manner. I can't imagine spot would shy from the challenge.

Using tags is the wimp's way out of having to post proof.

koan;1065712 wrote: Is this resolved now?



If you feel you have proof of your statement, the normal thing to do is to start a new thread in which you link to all the posts he's made that you think are the proof. This method gives spot a place to respond to the accusation. As with all threads, it is possible to approach the matter in a polite, effective manner. I can't imagine spot would shy from the challenge.



Using tags is the wimp's way out of having to post proof.
:wah: