oscar;1117487 wrote: If amino acids are the building blocks of life and they have been found in space dust, then, then have come from some-where.
Thank you for this link Oscar,
"An amino acid, one of the building blocks of life, has been spotted in deep space. If the find stands up to scrutiny, it means that the sorts of chemistry needed to create life are not unique to Earth verifying one of astrobiology's cherished theories. This would add weight to ideas that life exists on other planets, and even that molecules from outer space kick-started life on Earth". (emphasis mine)
This is in accordance then with DNA being found in astroids/comets that have hit the earth. I didn't get a chance to look at the link before now, but I'm glad I did.
Amber Sun;1117874 wrote: This is in accordance then with DNA being found in astroids/comets that have hit the earth. I didn't get a chance to look at the link before now, but I'm glad I did.
When has DNA been "found in astroids/comets that have hit the earth"? If it has then obviously there's no possible doubt that life exists beyond this planet. I thought there was still at least a minor measure of doubt in rigorously scientific circles on the question of life beyond Earth and you're telling me there isn't?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
spot;1117876 wrote: When has DNA been "found in astroids/comets that have hit the earth"? If it has then obviously there's no possible doubt that life exists beyond this planet. I thought there was still at least a minor measure of doubt in rigorously scientific circles on the question of life beyond Earth and you're telling me there isn't?
What about space dust transforming into double Helixes not impossibly removed from DNA?
Could alien life exist in the form of DNA-shaped dust? - space - 10 August 2007 - New Scientist
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
oscar;1117880 wrote: What about space dust transforming into double Helixes not impossibly removed from DNA?
Could alien life exist in the form of DNA-shaped dust? - space - 10 August 2007 - New Scientist
Firstly, what the article offers is an analogy to DNA, not DNA itself. Secondly, you can't maintain a plasma other than in a vacuum. More to the point you can't have one "in astroids/comets that have hit the earth". Without the plasma, the charged structures holding the dust in place all collapse.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Scrat;1117922 wrote: I like that quote by S Hawking.
Anyway I really think were looking at this the wrong way as a species. I recently read an article about discovering planets and it seems they are only looking where they would find earthlike planets.
That's a mistake because there is an endless variety of options chemically for life to emerge. I would not be surprised at all that there is microbial life on Mars or life in the clouds of Jupiter or Saturn or on Saturns moon Titan.
These life forms may find one or 2 degrees above absolute 0 our equivalent of a beautiful summer day and oxyen a lethal toxin in any amount. If we were ever to meet them we could never touch or even be in close proximity to them. Some may even have civilizations under the ice of moons with no knowledge of the universe, the sky, nothing but their little iceball interior. Some may be so advanced that they have left their bodies behind and exist only as some form of energy. Some may even tamper with whole worlds, creating life as we know it. Some may be gods for lack of a better word.
In a universe with endless possibilities, everything is possible.
In a universe with endless possibilities, everything is possible.
Scrat;1117922 wrote: I like that quote by S Hawking.
Anyway I really think were looking at this the wrong way as a species. I recently read an article about discovering planets and it seems they are only looking where they would find earthlike planets.
That's a mistake because there is an endless variety of options chemically for life to emerge. I would not be surprised at all that there is microbial life on Mars or life in the clouds of Jupiter or Saturn or on Saturns moon Titan.
These life forms may find one or 2 degrees above absolute 0 our equivalent of a beautiful summer day and oxyen a lethal toxin in any amount. If we were ever to meet them we could never touch or even be in close proximity to them. Some may even have civilizations under the ice of moons with no knowledge of the universe, the sky, nothing but their little iceball interior. Some may be so advanced that they have left their bodies behind and exist only as some form of energy. Some may even tamper with whole worlds, creating life as we know it. Some may be gods for lack of a better word.
In a universe with endless possibilities, everything is possible.
Scrat, thinking about life forms try this link, it's truly beyond anything I could have imagined. Read the entire article and tell me if you can get your mind around it.
Mine stops.
Our world may be a giant hologram - space - 15 January 2009 - New Scientist
I think that most people have watched the movie "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind." If not, please check this site....
Close Encounters of the Third Kind (1977)
Would you venture onto the spacecraft to explore new galaxies and leave your family and friends behind...........knowing that you may never see them again..
I've often wondered what people would do...........
Bryn Mawr;1103712 wrote: The question is not whether other life exists in the universe but whether it is possible that we would ever meet it - either face to face or through long distance communications.
Given a (near) infinite universe with the known potential for life then we can reasonably expect that we are not alone. Given the size of the universe and the limits on travel and communication is is not unreasonable to believe that we will never meet.
I have often thought that is is possible that other life exists besides humans. It may even be some type of life form that we are unable to detect. Just because we have monitored other planets and not "seen" life there, does not mean it does not exist. It is simplistic to assume that other life forms would be similar to humans, or detectable by humans. There may be other forms of life that are beyond our imagination.
So what exactly is needed for life? Well water for sure and carbon based molecules. Science tells us that both these exist in space. With both of these we then have life out there
This is what is necessary for life ***as we know it***. But there is the possibility of life that does not use the same support system. How do we know that all life forms need water? How do we really know?
Kathy Ellen;1117961 wrote: I'd like to ask a question here, if I may.....
I think that most people have watched the movie "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind." If not, please check this site....
Close Encounters of the Third Kind (1977)
Would you venture onto the spacecraft to explore new galaxies and leave your family and friends behind...........knowing that you may never see them again..
I've often wondered what people would do...........
LOL, Kathy, I find it hard at times, right here on earth, trying to figure out if someone is a real friend or one in disguise. How could I possibly know if an ET is a real friend or not? Anybody can pretend to be anything if it suits their agenda. I don't believe I would go willingly, actually I would probably put up a heck of a fight if I could. Not that I wouldn't want to travel in space, be adventurous and explore etc., but I wouldn't go for the reason that I stated above.
So what exactly is needed for life? Well water for sure and carbon based molecules. Science tells us that both these exist in space. With both of these we then have life out there
This is what is necessary for life ***as we know it***. But there is the possibility of life that does not use the same support system. How do we know that all life forms need water? How do we really know?
You are quite right of course wildhorses, my scope was/is too small. I suppose that I was simply regurgitating much of what I have read. Actually, this is a very good thread as it is taking in many thoughts and opinions and forcing an individual to think and consider. I know that it has caused me to do this anyway. And this is good.
Scrat;1117957 wrote: Good find, it's kind of hard to get your mind around, isn't everything we see kind of like a hologram? Our brains take an image collected by our eyes and translate it into an electrical impulse that is percieved by our selfaware consciousness via the occipital lobe of our brains. Cell patterns are activated by what we percieve through our eyes and the brain processes the information either consciously or unconsciously.
Don't we see and process information by patterns of thought relayed through a simple holographic pattern?
If I understand it correctly I really have to ask how it's such a big deal. That goes for all quantum physics for me. Spot may have a different opinion but to me quantum science is a waste of money.
I think where my mind stopped was at the part of the radiation coming out of a black hole and in the process causing the hologram effect. At least that is what I think it said. But is the radiation showing what is going on in the black hole and projecting it outward as 3D? If this is the case then we actually live in a black hole but experience our lives here in 3D????????
This doesn't make a lot of sense to me but then I know nothing about physics or whatever that discipline is.
Amber Sun;1117967 wrote: LOL, Kathy, I find it hard at times, right here on earth, trying to figure out if someone is a real friend or one in disguise. How could I possibly know if an ET is a real friend or not? Anybody can pretend to be anything if it suits their agenda. I don't believe I would go willingly, actually I would probably put up a heck of a fight if I could. Not that I wouldn't want to travel in space, be adventurous and explore etc., but I wouldn't go for the reason that I stated above.
Oy vey..thanks Amber.:p..Thanks a lot...Another human lost in space..:-3
Kathy Ellen;1117972 wrote: Oy vey..thanks Amber.:p..Thanks a lot...Another human lost in space..:-3
YouTube - Twilight Zone: To Serve Man
LOL Kathy, thanks for the link, I'm glad I made the right choice. Like I said anybody can say anything if it suits their agenda.
As far as ending up on a dinner plate though we have that right here on this planet. Hannibal Lector was a psychiatrist that ate his patients. Cannabilism is as old as mankind.
However we have to keep in mind that if life from 'out there' ever did come here we can't just assume that they/it is bad or that they/it is good just because they/it looks different.
Besides Kathy, what could any alien species do to humankind that humans haven't already done to each other? Can you think of anything???
To get back a little to the main topic about there being life on Mars.
My own view is that its entirely reasonable to think that there is a relatively good probability that some form of basic life has existed on Mars in the past, or is even existing in bacterial form under the surface at the present time. Recent discoveries of large quantities of CH4 in the atmosphere and frozen H2O at the poles and under the subsoil have not undermined this hypothesis (though they do not prove it). So I would not be particularly surprised if the question of whether there is (or has) been life on Mars is solved in the next 10 years.
Most scientists would be of the opinion at this stage that their is almost certainly life on other planets, and its likely that the processes that created life on earth are not unique to us or this place (i.e. Earth). The complex molecules responsible for the creation of amino acids are abundant throughout space itself, let alone on other planets, and of course we know now that the galaxy contains billions of planets as well as billions of stars, so the odds of their not being life are astonomically small.
So is there life on other planets? The science at the moment would seem to indicate that yes, almost certainly there is, and indeed that life may be everywhere. But what form that life is in is unknowable and for instance the martian example you would be talking about very simple life forms, such as bacteria and virus-like creatures.
The next question is about what types of life-forms could there be, this is where you get into supposition. Evolution on Earth followed a very particular path, and several unique events such as asteroid strikes, climate changes, and mass extinctions were all pivotal in the story of life on earth. So life on other planets would be nothing like life on earth, that is for certain.
Following on from that you get to the favorite question, is there "intelligent" life on other planets? Again, this is pure speculation now, and we have no way of even starting to assess the likihood of such an outcome. As we have nothing other than our own planets evolutionary history to go on, and that may have no comparison with any other possible evolutionary history on another world.
Don't forget, it took 5 billion years for human beings to arise on Earth, through a series of unique evolutionary events, and we seem to be the only creatures that adopted high intelligence and civilization as a evolutionary strategy out of the millions of species that have existed across the billions of years of evolution. So intelligence is not a common feature of evolution, its doesn't arise very often.
Even more importantly, actual human technological civilization has only existed for a couple of thousand years, with our industrial and scientific civilization being only a few centuries old, and we may soon become a footnote in biological and evolutionary history as we seem determine to undermine our own existence either through nuclear war at some point, or by destabilizing the climate probably resulting in our own extinction as a species.
The route by which human beings became self-concious and intelligent is not understood, and could easily be a quirk of evolution, as opposed to some pre-destined or common evolutionary niche that life finds every time it gets going on a planet.
So for the moment I would say that life on other planets: definetly
Basic life on one or several other planets within our own solar system: i.e. Mars, Europa, Titan, Callisto: Probable
Intelligent life on other planets: Undeterminable, but at the moment, not so likely, hard to assess.
Intelligent life on other planets in our solar system: Almost certainly not.
Basically a lot more work and research will have to be done across this area before anything definitive can be said. What I will say is that
1. There is no cover up, science doesn't work that way, climate change is a good example, Science isn't covering up climate change, people just won't accept it.
2. Scienitsts are not dismissive of the life on other planets hypothesis, its a huge scientific question, and is of interest of scientists across all disciplines such as biology, chemistry, and physics.
3. One day its very likely we will have enough hard evidence to be actually able to make some fairly definitive assumptions on this topic, but at present hard evidence is still not available, but over time that situation will change.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
Themis;1118039 wrote: Science is discovering that we are more energy than any other formPerhaps you could point me to some third-party web page which might explain what this means for me? It seems a complete abuse of language and logic as it stands, both the "we" and the "more" are out of place.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Themis;1118039 wrote: These questions are very important to understand, Science is discovering that we are more energy than any other form, our narrow mindedness of what life is should be considered in this subject.. Dimensional energy, consciousness and thought could all be ET in their nature and so unrecognisable to an holographic eye.
Things that we cannot see, measure, or experience are meaningless to debate, as their existence or non-existence is not amenable to any sort of evidential analysis, and therefore is just another pointless metaphysical question. Science concerns itself with things we might actually have some possibility of observing directly or indirectly so the point is moot.
Also, I am unclear what you mean in your points about science discovering we are "energy" more than any other form? Are you talking about the fact that all matter and energy are interchangeable? As of course outlined by Einstein in his famous equation.
Or that they (according to heteroic M-theory) are simply aspects of a greater unity that only seperated out during the point of symmetry-breaking at the initial stages of the big bang, (which occurred once the pressure and temperature of the universe allowed the different forces and particles to begin their discrete existences?)
That doesn't just go for the stuff humans are made of, but for all matter, forces, and energy in the universe, so again it has no bearing on what your discussing. There is nothing mystical about that, its just exotic physics.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
Themis;1118375 wrote: I will explain further that matter is not real, we live in an Holographic universe, my mind is jaded with alcohol so please just follow this thread and add your opinion and I'll promise to respect it.
If it's a model of the universe then it may well be useful in some situations. No model, neither that nor the more common ones we use day by day, can pretend to be an accurate description of the underlying processes.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Themis;1118418 wrote: Well I hope you like my Tie......
As far as "do not narrow your spectrum" is concerned, what frequencies exist which aren't measurable with existing technology?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Actually the only reason we know dark matter exists is because we can measure it.
To return to my question, what do you think "spectrum" means? As far as "do not narrow your spectrum" is concerned, what frequencies exist which aren't measurable with existing technology?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
spot;1118424 wrote: As far as "do not narrow your spectrum" is concerned, what frequencies exist which aren't measurable with existing technology?
What are you asking Spot? If we cant measure it with existing technology then we dont know it exists....yet....because we are currently unable to measure it. But that does not mean it does not exist, only that we cant detect it. And it is ok to base current scientific findings only on what we can now detect. But it is not ok to assume that because we cant detect it that it does not exist.
You ask what frequencies exist which are not measurable with existing technology. None....as far as we currently know. But we dont know everything...and our technology cant detect everything.
6.1 When people had spread all over the world, and daughters were being born,
6:2 some of the heavenly beings saw that these young women were beautiful, so they took the ones they liked.
6:3 Then the LORD said, "I will not allow people to live forever; they are mortal. From now on they will live no longer than 120 years."
6:4 In those days, and even later, there were giants on the earth who were descendants of human women and the heavenly beings. They were the great heroes and famous men of long ago.
I think he's just being difficult, he like to be seen important and intelligent in his Home.
Think you are being a bit unfair to spot there. He doesn't do it to be self-important, he does it because he's got the sort of mind that can't let go of an issue once he's got his mental teeth into it. It might be irritating to have weaknesses of definition or logic pointed out, but it can improve your argument.
Hello there Themis. I'm not sure what to say hun, I guess basically because I don't want to look down right stupid LOL, but I can't see anything, even remotely that looks like something dubious. I have scanned the video I don't know how many times. I have scanned each quarter section and don't see anything like a flying/or even stationary object that they might be referring to. The shiny dots at the end of the video that they say are all reflections, except one, are exactly that reflections, all of them. That fact that one is moving means nothing because not only are they using binoculars but there is no doubt some reflective points on the craft itself. There is also a very, very distinct difference in the colour of the sky. I did however note on close up/blown up inspection on the left upper quarter on the walkway what looks like two people walking. As this is very unlikely I don't know what to make of it. Would you be so kind please as to view this video and then tell me where the supposed object is. At that point I will copy it and place it on my graphics program and blow it up to take a look at the object on it's own. Please split the picture example into 6 sections,
section 1 section 2 section3
section 4 section 5 section 6
I sincerely hope that you will do this for me because I can't see what it is that I'm supposed to see.
