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We all know by now that Oscar has... to quote gmc..." A disturbing pythonesque affection for the inhabitant of No 10."

Well, this is true and there is no doubt that I am a Labourite through and through.



Well, on Saturday, i had a visitor, the Tory Junior MP for my constituancy that i am going to be spending much of my time in the next 18 months helping in any way i can to oust our Labour MP for the past 19 years based on the fact that he is a ******. To quote gmc again, as he said "He has heard oscar is hanging out with the Local Tory lately".





History was made saturday when we invited a Tory into our home for a cuppa.



To get to the point. We will eather we like it or not be looking at a General Election in 2010 or 2011. This could only be a year or two away so of course, all Parties are on the campaign trail already.



Now, I'm not supposed to be telling you this as this will not be announced until there is a Tory government in place. They will not be announcing this little one before the election.



Under a Tory government, benifit cheques for un-employed families with young children will be replaced by welfare vouchers that can only be re-deemed for food and clothing or utility bills. Not, alcohol, ciggs and dope.



If your child is caught bunking off school, you will have a weeks benifit stopped electronically by the DSS until he is back in school.



What are your thoughts FG's????

sounds real good to me

el guapo;1125213 wrote: sounds real good to me


That is the opinion of the Tory's.

But did Oscar agree with a Tory for once in her life? hmmmmm :-3:-3:-3

oscar;1125216 wrote: That is the opinion of the Tory's.

But did Oscar agree with a Tory for once in her life? hmmmmm :-3:-3:-3


need to make then pick up litter as well

el guapo;1125224 wrote: need to make then pick up litter as well


psssst.... Under a Tory government, Police forces will be fined should they fail to issue on the spot fines to peeps who drop litter :(

oscar;1125231 wrote: psssst.... Under a Tory government, Police forces will be fined should they fail to issue on the spot fines to peeps who drop litter :(


good

Under a Tory government, benifit cheques for un-employed families with young children will be replaced by welfare vouchers that can only be re-deemed for food and clothing or utility bills. Not, alcohol, ciggs and dope.

If your child is caught bunking off school, you will have a weeks benifit stopped electronically by the DSS until he is back in school.


Sounds attractive, but won't this just create a black market whereby discounted vouchers are traded for cash? Given that some of these people are not the brightest candles in the packet they are easy prey for the unscrupulous.

Will this apply to unemployed single people? You just mention families...

Hmm. More and more little things are starting to suggest a sharp lurch to the right by the English at the next election. The fact that I'm considering this issue seriously is one of them.

How about letting local businesses that supply basic goods bid for the right to make weekly deliveries of basics and food to the households in question? Need a good regulatory system to make sure they didn't get starved for profit, but that should be possible.

In the US food stamps are restricted to food items only.

Because of this, they use to sell their food stamps to obtain the cash to buy the restricted items.

Now, food stamps are on a debit card which is used with a pin number to activate it. I believe there is a photo ID hooked into this too.

its long been known in the states that people that qualify for food stamps just sell them at a cheap price for cash instead of using them for food for the family as intended. Not all do this but some do..so they can use the money for ciggys, drugs and alcohol.



There is also something wrong with the system when i am standing behind food stamp people watching them buy tbone steaks with their welfare while i work for a living and cant aford the same food the government is giving away on my tax money. :-5 To me, the government should force the food stamp people to have to return the food stamp reciepts with the reciepts from the grocery store showing what they bought.along with a signature of the welfare recipiant and a signature from the store stating they verified that the true welfare recipient used them to begin with. if the holder and the food stamps dont match up then they should be confiscated by the store and returned to the social security office listing the names that tried to use them. They should also be in some kind of rationing system. listing exactly what they qualify for..so many gallons of milk, bread, eggs, peanut butter, an itemized list for the month. so the idiots cant buy steaks and live high on the hog one weekend and make their families suffer the rest of the month. thats my opinion.

I have no doubt that barring something extraordinary happening, the next election in Britain will result in a labour wipeout and a Tory government, Labour might really go under this time, even down to third, I don't think they really get how angry people are over there.

I don't mind one way or the other, though the whole EU thing is going to start up again, with loads of people demanding out I suspect. That's not something I would welcome, but it may come to that given how ideological that issue has become in Britain. We'll see.

The other issue will be Scotland, with a Tory Government in Westminster, I think Scottish independence will be firmly on the agenda.

Interesting times.



As for our shower of gobsheens.

galbally;1125339 wrote: i have no doubt that barring something extraordinary happening, the next election in britain will result in a labour wipeout and a tory government, labour might really go under this time,

as for our shower of gobsheens.


in your dreams mate

oscar;1125348 wrote: in your dreams mate


what odds ya give oscar

oscar;1125348 wrote: in your dreams mate


you wish. Gordy Boy has just finished what Bliar started. He has totally f**ked the Labour party. Just like thon bluddy wumman f**ked the Tories.

Incidentally Oscar, and purely for your delectation, the word Tory derives from Toraidh which is Gailege for thief (or maybe highwayman). I can't be absolutely sure as I speak Gàidhlig which isn't quite the same.

oscar;1125348 wrote: in your dreams mate


I don't mind one way or another Oscar, its not for me to say, its your country and your decision. I am just calling it the way I see it. Labour are in big trouble, but its their own fault to be honest.

I also have little doubt that our own ruling Fianna Fail Party is also going to get a serious kicking at the next election. In fact I intend to personally help in that regard, as they need to go. At this stage I am willing to contemplate any alternative to them; I think most Irish people are, our country is literally being sold down the swanny for the sake of banks and developers, we have had enough. :-5

el guapo;1125355 wrote: what odds ya give oscar


There is no denying that it will be close. I would say at this precise moment in time that it will be a marginal victory to Labour.

Labour ... 5 to 4

Conservative .. Even money

Lib Dem (who).. 50,0000000000000 to one

Talking of odds folks, don't forget to get your hard earned on 'KAUTO STAR' For the Cheltenham Gold Cup in March.

Clodhopper;1125248 wrote: Sounds attractive, but won't this just create a black market whereby discounted vouchers are traded for cash? Given that some of these people are not the brightest candles in the packet they are easy prey for the unscrupulous.

Will this apply to unemployed single people? You just mention families...

Hmm. More and more little things are starting to suggest a sharp lurch to the right by the English at the next election. The fact that I'm considering this issue seriously is one of them.

How about letting local businesses that supply basic goods bid for the right to make weekly deliveries of basics and food to the households in question? Need a good regulatory system to make sure they didn't get starved for profit, but that should be possible.


This does happen in the States and naturally it will happen here unless carefull thought is put into just how they will do it. I can see the vouchers working well for utility bills, that's quite straight-forward. The food is a grey area i think. If some-thing such as an ID reg No on them so if they were sold on and used by others, they could be tracked.

A large part of the problem is gordon brown has made is so complicated no one can work out whom is entitled to what-it also coats a lot to administer. There are many who should claim but don't and the numbers playing the system are not as great as the daily mail would like you to believe. The way the means tested benefits are calculated is ridiculous and actively discourage anyone from saving for the future.

Personally I think the idea sucks-it's throw back to the old days of rubbing in the fact that the poor are poor and therefore pariahs. Many won't use vouchers like this because of the indignity of it and those who do will probably play the system.

When i was a kid I was entitled to free school meals-the teacher would collect all the money and then say anyone claiming the free meals. I wasn't the only one that used to go hungry rather than be humiliated like that.

The only way the tories are going to get in is because people are so fed up with labour. Tony and gordon have destroyed the labour party for at least a generation. Scotland differs from england is that protest votes go to the left not the right, the BNP don't feature at all-the likes of he scottish socialist party might have been in with a chance but like most left wing parties they prefer to self destruct-what lenin called the infantile disorder. The SNP might do well by default id england goes to the right.

Gordon and his cronies have really lost touch with the way ordinary people feel. That smug bastard mandelson doesn't help. either.

When i was a kid I was entitled to free school meals-the teacher would collect all the money and then say anyone claiming the free meals. I wasn't the only one that used to go hungry rather than be humiliated like that.


That sort of thing stays with you.

I agree that the Mail exaggerates the problem for political reasons. My general opinion of the solutions put forward is that they are worse than the problem they intend to solve. Nonetheless, given the economic hole we are in, can we afford NOT to look at alternatives? Especially since, given the unemployment likely to occur in the next few years, these solutions may well apply to us?

Clodhopper;1125841 wrote: That sort of thing stays with you.



I agree that the Mail exaggerates the problem for political reasons. My general opinion of the solutions put forward is that they are worse than the problem they intend to solve. Nonetheless, given the economic hole we are in, can we afford NOT to look at alternatives? Especially since, given the unemployment likely to occur in the next few years, these solutions may well apply to us?


You're dead right there it does stick with you.

There have got to be simpler ways than daft ideas like vouchers. The system we have is over complicates, costs a lot to administer and fails to serve it's purpose. We seem to have acquired a culture where government wants to intrude, check, monitor and take the credit for every aspect of daily life to justify their existence.

More means testing is not the way to go. The irony is new labour are the ones that have brought it back wholesale.

from the beveridge report 1942

The third principle is that social security must be achieved by co-operation between the State and the individual. The State should offer security for service and contribution. The State in organising security should not stifle incentive, opportunity, responsibility ; in establishing a national minimum, it should leave room and encouragement for voluntary action by each individual to provide more than that minimum for himself and his family.


We have politicians in power who have no idea what it is like to be trapped with low income and little opportunity and a benefit system that penalises you for daring to earn a little above the poverty level and is so inefficient they can't spot the ones playing the system -apparently for no better reason than that they can feel sanctimonious about it. Meanwhile the rich and companies use every dodge they can to not pay tax but that is OK because after all they generate wealth. Bankers bankrupt their companies cheered on by gordon brown while he was busily cheating on prudence with hubris. I'm getting so I hate new labour almost as much as the tories and maggie thatcher.

Perhaps it's time to see a lot more Independent MPs standing....? (Trying to think out of the box) More possible to organise that sort of thing with the internet.

You do get good MPs. I reckon the bulk are, at worst, well meaning. Only a few with a "touch of the night" about them. But I agree I am not comfortable with the very young, brand new out of Uni/Business School types. Just the sort of twerps who b.... up banks a la Baring.

gmc;1125872 wrote: You're dead right there it does stick with you.


I can't imagine what that is like as i went to Private Grammar School (sorry), but what a humiliating way To call out the kids for dinner? Bastards! I will add that my father came out the war with FA and got us there by his own toil. My father was like a stick of rock... cut in half and it would have Conservative running through it.

I think what has hi-highted this problem with easy benifit cheques was when Karen matthews came to light in the press. 7 kids, single, never worked but smoked and drank.

I agree with you that there is too much administration already in the system however i can see a bonus to the vouchers. I see this problem first hand in my neighbours kids who if i were not so fond of, I'd have given their mother a Glasgow kiss by now. If it protects children from the likes of my neighbour then i would agree to it. Two young children, she's 36.. never worked since leaving school. She gets out of bed in the afternoon, heads for the beer and sits on face book all day and night. Months in rent arrears and recently, one of the kids came round to us for a tenner as the electric had gone. The following day, she got her benifit and first priority as usual is down the supermarket to stock up on booze and fags. Then her dealer will make the fortnightly visit. I wouldn't mind so much if she tried to hide her life-style. The kids are dirty, ragged and depressed. Yes, i have considered calling the SS but i know she'd cover it well.

If the voucher system saved kids like that, I'd be all for it.

Your wrong about politicians... well Labour. All Tory's are Hoo Ray Henrys but most labourites are from working class families.

Clodhopper;1125888 wrote: Perhaps it's time to see a lot more Independent MPs standing....? (Trying to think out of the box) More possible to organise that sort of thing with the internet.

You do get good MPs. I reckon the bulk are, at worst, well meaning. Only a few with a "touch of the night" about them. But I agree I am not comfortable with the very young, brand new out of Uni/Business School types. Just the sort of twerps who b.... up banks a la Baring.


I think we need proportional representation-at least then parliament would reflect the way people are actually voting. It made a tremendous difference in scotland-even the tories up here support it as it is the only way they stand a chance of getting a seat. It's broken the stranglehold labour had on local and national elections.

posted by oscar

I can't imagine what that is like as i went to Private Grammar School (sorry), but what a humiliating way To call out the kids for dinner? Bastards! I will add that my father came out the war with FA and got us there by his own toil. My father was like a stick of rock... cut in half and it would have Conservative running through it.


I agree with tony benn on that one. The mistake was in doing away with the grammar school system-nothing wrong with giving those with ability an opportunity regardless of background. What they should have done was do away with fee paying public schools. The iniquity is in some being able to get a better education because their parents were wealthy and perpetuate the division between rich and poor not that some were put in an acaden=mic stream. . I was in the last year when classes were still streamed by ability. Bear in mind I went through the Scottish system not the english. I'm one of gordon brown's contemporaries -give or take a year or two, also from fife and went through the same scottish education system. Like him I benefited from a state funded education. Labour have screwed that up as well so now they deny the same opportunities they had to others. It's a curious place the part of fife GB comes from home of adam smith and the little moscow's of the coal fields. Too bad he forgot his roots.

I will add that my father came out the war with FA and got us there by his own toil. My father was like a stick of rock...


so did mine-so did a lot of others you're hardly unique in having a parent that went away to war. Mine happened to die when I was a kid. never really knew his politics. On the other hand I had an uncle that told me all about red clydeside

gmc;1126358 wrote: I think we need proportional representation-at least then parliament would reflect the way people are actually voting. It made a tremendous difference in scotland-even the tories up here support it as it is the only way they stand a chance of getting a seat. It's broken the stranglehold labour had on local and national elections.

posted by oscar



I agree with tony benn on that one. The mistake was in doing away with the grammar school system-nothing wrong with giving those with ability an opportunity regardless of background. What they should have done was do away with fee paying public schools. The iniquity is in some being able to get a better education because their parents were wealthy and perpetuate the division between rich and poor not that some were put in an acaden=mic stream. . I was in the last year when classes were still streamed by ability. Bear in mind I went through the Scottish system not the english. I'm one of gordon brown's contemporaries -give or take a year or two, also from fife and went through the same scottish education system. Like him I benefited from a state funded education. Labour have screwed that up as well so now they deny the same opportunities they had to others. It's a curious place the part of fife GB comes from home of adam smith and the little moscow's of the coal fields. Too bad he forgot his roots.



so did mine-so did a lot of others you're hardly unique in having a parent that went away to war. Mine happened to die when I was a kid. never really knew his politics. On the other hand I had an uncle that told me all about red clydeside
There's no doubt that i was lucky. My father sending me to Grammar school back then was like many in his position, a way at the time of giving what he thought was a better chance in the education system. It had nothing to do with weather it was fee paying or not. It just happened to be fee paying and that's what he felt he had to do. It wasn't a snob issue. My husband went to one of the roughest comprensive schools in the East end of London but he is equally educated. (hang on that doesn't say a lot for him).

oscar;1126696 wrote: There's no doubt that i was lucky. My father sending me to Grammar school back then was like many in his position, a way at the time of giving what he thought was a better chance in the education system. It had nothing to do with weather it was fee paying or not. It just happened to be fee paying and that's what he felt he had to do. It wasn't a snob issue. My husband went to one of the roughest comprensive schools in the East end of London but he is equally educated. (hang on that doesn't say a lot for him).


Being scots I had access to what was one of the best education systems on the planet. It is still better in many ways imo and it's one of the things we definitely don't want to copy from england. One of the points raised by the lothian question is should scotish MP's be allowed to vote on education reforms in england when they wouldn't dare support them in scotland-things like more religious schools and tony's academies for instance would not have got through without scottish MP's voting for them-or at least might have been subject to more debate and scrutiny. Personally If I was english it is something that i think would annoy me intensely-because it does when it happens the other way round. Like these daft home information packs that were to solve a problem in England that disdn't exist in scotland-yet we are stuck with them as well.