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The Turkish air boeing 737 crashed just short of the runway at Schipol at 10.30 am local time it broke into 3 and at the moment there are 9 dead incl 3 crew.

at least 6 others are in critical condition in hospital.

The identification is being made difficult by 'problems' in the passenger list

I didnt know anything about it until I got home last night and my son told me his supervisor had been on board.

As the news came over the radio their boss just ran out of the office jumped in his car and sped the 100 miles to the airport. Thier colleage was lucky he walked away without a scratch.

He says everything was normal, they could see the houses and tree line and were getting ready for the landing then the nose lifted and the plane went into a kind of free fall.

Rumours here are that the plane had run out of fuel and the engines stalled.

The black box has been flow to Paris and we should hear more soon.

If it had been running out of fuel there would have been hours of warning, the flight crew would have raised the problem and it would be reported that way. Something caused the plane's engines to stop delivering enough power. It happened last year at Heathrow as a result of extremely cold fuel and the plane came down before it reached the runway, it happened at Kegworth when the pilot turned off the wrong engine when the other became faulty and and that plane came down before it reached the runway too. It happened last month when birds stopped those engines over New York. What's odd each time is that both engines are involved, if it's just one these planes manage to land quite reliably.

Here's a playback of the final few miles. To my uninformed mind it appears the pilot held the plane off the freeway at the cost of a harder landing in a less hazardous place. If he had inadequate power at that point then, regardless of why his plane was in that state, he presumably saved most of his passengers by hopping one road and avoiding the two remaining ones in front of him. He ended up in a field a mile short of the runway.

OpenATC.com recording of THY1951 crash

Attached files

The press conference on the crash was lunchtime today.

There's three pilots on the flight desk. One piece of equipment (an altimeter) fails and tells the autopilot that instead of being at 2000 feet the plane's at ground level. The autopilot turns off the throttle and prepares to land the plane, giving audible warnings as it does so, and for the next hundred seconds the three pilots just watch the crash unfold around them! Finally, at 450 feet, far too late, they re-engage the throttle and put the nose up to try to go around, at which point they're flying at under 100 miles an hour and about to hit the ground very hard indeed.

If any of them are ever pilots again in some future life one can only hope they either pay more attention or they fly the plane by hand. Spectating is not what they're paid to do.

I think what I described as a hop in the preceeding post was the belated effort to keep the plane off the ground by re-engaging the engines.

spot;1150930 wrote: The press conference on the crash was lunchtime today.

There's three pilots on the flight desk. One piece of equipment (an altimeter) fails and tells the autopilot that instead of being at 2000 feet the plane's at ground level. The autopilot turns off the throttle and prepares to land the plane, giving audible warnings as it does so, and for the next hundred seconds the three pilots just watch the crash unfold around them! Finally, at 450 feet, far too late, they re-engage the throttle and put the nose up to try to go around, at which point they're flying at under 100 miles an hour and about to hit the ground very hard indeed.

If any of them are ever pilots again in some future life one can only hope they either pay more attention or they fly the plane by hand. Spectating is not what they're paid to do.

I think what I described as a hop in the preceeding post was the belated effort to keep the plane off the ground by re-engaging the engines.


Once again, Spot, you are making judgements of your own before the full facts are known. I've had this out with you before, if you remember - nobody has a right to make judgements like you have unless they were in the cockpit, or in the control tower. Do not condemn the pilots till you have ALL the facts before you - it is a very dangerous 'game' you are playing !!!! That is all I have to say about the matter.

G#Gill;1150937 wrote: Once again, Spot, you are making judgements of your own before the full facts are known. I've had this out with you before, if you remember - nobody has a right to make judgements like you have unless they were in the cockpit, or in the control tower. Do not condemn the pilots till you have ALL the facts before you - it is a very dangerous 'game' you are playing !!!! That is all I have to say about the matter.


Do you know what the official enquiry said about the crosswinds runway wing-touch at Hamburg?

Neither do I. Not even now, a year after you told me to wait for the official enquiry before I expressed an opinion. The official enquiry still hasn't reported. Bugger that for a game of soldiers.Dutch Safety Board chairman Pieter van Vollenhoven said the plane was landing on automatic pilot and the problem with the altimeter led to a loss of speed. He said the airplane had twice before reported problems with its altimeter.

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Altimeter 'had role' in air crash

And yes, from the throttling back and the immediate associated audible warning to the time they re-engaged the engines was a hundred seconds, and a height reduction of 1500 feet.

Surprise me, how are the flight deck pilots not culpable?

Here you are Gill - Computer seen behind Lufthansa near-crash - The Local

That's the crosswind at Hamburg detail coming out. The pilot couldn't get the plane down cleanly, the wheel-touch put the A320 computer into ground mode and the wind surface controls were prevented from full deployment for the next three seconds. The pilot, basically, shouldn't have got the plane into that dangerous a position after the warning from the airport of the prevailing wind conditions.

And, finally, the report has been issued. Three years, that took.

Gill, it looks like our original thread on the Hamburg incident is unavailable. If you can find it, by all means link to it.

You'll note in the report that the pilots weren't even aware that they'd grounded their wing until three minutes afterwards. All that talk of "skilful flying" you made seems pretty unwarranted.

I'll say it again, in the light of the final report. They shouldn't have been attempting to put the plane down in those conditions on that runway, they made an error of judgement.