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Armoured cars and tanks and guns

Came to take away our sons

But every man will stand behind

The Men Behind the Wire

Through the little streets of Belfast

In the dark of early morn

British soldiers came marauding

Wrecking little homes with scorn.

Heedless of the crying children

Dragging fathers from their beds

Beating sons while helpless mothers

Watched the blood flow from their heads

Chorus

Not for them a judge or jury

Or indeed a crime at all

Being Irish means they're guilty

So we're guilty one and all

Round the world the truth will echo

CromweIl's men are here again

England's name again is sullied

In the eyes of honest men

Chorus

Proudly march behind our banners

Firmly stand behind our men

We will have them free to help us

Build a Nation once again

On the people stand together

Proudly firmly on your way

Never fear, and never falter

Till the boys are home to stay

Chorus



"The Men Behind The Wire" is a song written and composed by Paddy McGuigan of the Barleycorn folk group in the aftermath of internment in Northern Ireland.

The song describes raids by British soldiers, and the "men behind the wire" refers to those held without charge or trial at Long Kesh prison camp, Magilligan prison camp and on board the Maidstone Prison Ship.

McGuigan himself was picked up in a later round of internment, which some saw as the British State's revenge for writing the song

fuzzywuzzy;1172241 wrote: (big snip)


No, I have not heard this song, that I recall. I'm sure there are "loyalist" songs that similarly espouse sentiments that preserve the repulsive situation in Northern Ireland, which seems, thank God, to be slowly stopping, at last. Stuff like this, outside of a historical context, is deeply unhelpful, and perpetuates stereotypes and attitudes.

In the interests of balance have you ever heard this song?

Sure l'm an Ulster Orangeman, from Erin's isle I came,

To see my British brethren all of honour and of fame,

And to tell them of my forefathers who fought in days of yore,

That I might have the right to wear, the sash my father wore!

Chorus:

It is old but it is beautiful, and its colours they are fine

It was worn at Derry, Aughrim, Enniskillen and the Boyne.

My father wore it as a youth in bygone days of yore,

And on the Twelfth I love to wear the sash my father wore.

Chorus

For those brave men who crossed the Boyne have not fought or died in vain

Our Unity, Religion, Laws, and Freedom to maintain,

If the call should come we'll follow the drum, and cross that river once more

That tomorrow's Ulsterman may wear the sash my father wore!

Chorus

And when some day, across the sea to Antrim's shore you come,

We'll welcome you in royal style, to the sound of flute and drum

And Ulster's hills shall echo still, from Rathlin to Dromore

As we sing again the loyal strain of the sash my father wore!


Is there some point you wish to make?

A friend of mine was singing it. When I asked him about it he told me to look it up and understand what it means. So I did, stuff I never knew happened actually. It reminded me of Guantanimo. It does say on wikipedia that some use it as a militant song (these days) but mostly it decribes a certain time period . Very interesting I thought.

what's this about balance? what point?

I think it's a very nice song. Sad but nice.

These are good Fuzzy:

YouTube - Simple Minds - Belfast Child

YouTube - U2 - Bloody Sunday

fuzzywuzzy;1172255 wrote: A friend of mine was singing it. When I asked him about it he told me to look it up and understand what it means. So I did, stuff I never knew happened actually. It reminded me of Guantanimo. It does say on wikipedia that some use it as a militant song (these days) but mostly it decribes a certain time period . Very interesting I thought.

what's this about balance? what point?

I think it's a very nice song. Sad but nice.


Both are sectarian songs which in the context of northern ireland makes them provocative in the right circumstances. The sash is a protestant anthem the orange sash representing the colours of william of orange at the battle of the boyne.

A friend of mine was singing it. When I asked him about it he told me to look it up and understand what it means.


There are parts of Ulster where if he walked in singing "The Men Behind the Wire", he might not walk out again, even today - the same with "The Sash" in other parts.

The Troubles over the last 40 years or so are a nightmare from which Ulster is only just waking. The recent murders tell you that it is a nightmare which could easily return if we close our eyes. It is not yet history here, still very much a current affair, which is why you've had rather teeth-on-edge responses.

That they had the courage to stop the killing is the reason this Englishman has such respect for Adams and McGuinness.

fuzzywuzzy;1172255 wrote: A friend of mine was singing it. When I asked him about it he told me to look it up and understand what it means. So I did, stuff I never knew happened actually. It reminded me of Guantanimo. It does say on wikipedia that some use it as a militant song (these days) but mostly it decribes a certain time period . Very interesting I thought.

what's this about balance? what point?

I think it's a very nice song. Sad but nice.


Nice? Really? I can't see it as being a very nice song, by any means... not even if I were a supporter of terrorism. Why was your friend singing such a song?

G-man;1172387 wrote: Nice? Really? I can't see it as being a very nice song, by any means... not even if I were a supporter of terrorism. Why was your friend singing such a song?


It's a nice tune-you don't always need to understand the words or the context to like a tune.

YouTube - The Men Behind The Wire - The Wolftones

same with the sash

YouTube - the sash my father wore

inspiring stuff no doubt. If you live on the other side of the planet the context is meaningless and probably hard to take seriously but over here they are not interesting folk ditties they are sectarian songs used to provoke. Have a look at some of the orange walks and you might get a sense of it.

posted by fuzzy wuzzy

what's this about balance? what point?


two sides of the sectarian divide. I just wondered if you were going to start banging on about British oppression of the northern and their imprisoning gallant freedom fighters. there are people who don't know southern ireland is actually an independent country.

Bill Sikes;1172247 wrote: No, I have not heard this song, that I recall. I'm sure there are "loyalist" songs that similarly espouse sentiments that preserve the repulsive situation in Northern Ireland, which seems, thank God, to be slowly stopping, at last. Stuff like this, outside of a historical context, is deeply unhelpful, and perpetuates stereotypes and attitudes.


Absolutely !

Snowfire;1172468 wrote: Absolutely ! Have you heard this one?

I play it when i get down :sneaky::sneaky:

YouTube - The Eyes Of The IRA They Are Upon You

Shame..... they ruined a damned good hotel

Hmmm I guess my friend has his own reasons for singing this song and they are valid. But it's obviously a touchy subject so I'll drop it. I still like the song though:)

Anyone every hear of the Good Friday agreement,

Thankfully all this stuff is in the past, let it go.

Don't kid yourselves, the only ones still fighting up there are the local gangs and drug dealers fighting for territory hiding behind an old cause as cover.

Don't be fooled.

I take offense at both,

Born in London I held a British passport but was a victim of these troubles none the less. My family are mostly from Ireland, Dublin and Cork and my father promised us as children 'one day after the troubles I will take you and we will meet the family'

But the troubles were long and I grew up, my father died, I never met the family he talked about the cousins whos names are so familier but whos faces I cant remember.

See he didnt dare take 4 little kids with very London accents to Dublin or Cork in the early 1970's and the family only ventured over once or twice for a wedding or funeral. so we have gradually lost touch.

They really dont need to be proud of their actions, either side they should be ashamed all of them for the destruction and sorrow they caused.

Anyone every hear of the Good Friday agreement,

Thankfully all this stuff is in the past, let it go.

Don't kid yourselves, the only ones still fighting up there are the local gangs and drug dealers fighting for territory hiding behind an old cause as cover.

Don't be fooled.


Most of the trouble now is, as you say, purely criminal, but the recent attack on the barracks did not seem to fit that pattern. The most encouraging thing about that attack is that police investigations do not seem to have been met by the traditional wall of silence.

Thought we were going to drop it guys? :-4

I didn't realise until someone reminded me of the recent stuff that it would be too touchy a subject . I'm happy to have the subject dropped and deleted-4

fuzzywuzzy;1173197 wrote: I'm happy to have the subject dropped and deleted o -4


This is an aspect of FG that I'm not keen on - to delete a thread even in which diametrically opposite opinions are forcibly expressed (and this does not seem to be such a thread) - appears to be rather wishy-washy, and stymies any debate.

Well that's good, debate is not always neccesary.

fuzzywuzzy;1173197 wrote: Thought we were going to drop it guys? :-4

I didn't realise until someone reminded me of the recent stuff that it would be too touchy a subject . I'm happy to have the subject dropped and deleted-4


Being British we can discuss things we disagree about passionately without taking that disagreement as being a personal attack. If you never discuss things you disagree about how do you reach understanding and compromise? It may be a touchy subject but that is not a good reason to avoid it. It's a free forum after all people can just keep away.

Well that's good, debate is not always neccesary.


There I would disagree. often people are afraid to say what they think because they are actually being intimidated by others. We avoid talking about religion-be it simply expressing disbelief or annoyance at the inherent bigotry and arrogance for fear we might offend somebody's religious beliefs. Be they Christian or Muslim it is still intimidation that tries to silence criticism.

That's part of the problem in northern ireland if you live in a staunchly protestant area you are intimidated in to accepting the bigotry as normal, disagreeing with it aloud gets your head kicked in. Having people sit there talking to you and trying to work out what religion you are before they do business with you is a very surreal experience-thankfully not a very common one.

gmc;1173375 wrote: Being British we can discuss things we disagree about passionately without taking that disagreement as being a personal attack. If you never discuss things you disagree about how do you reach understanding and compromise? It may be a touchy subject but that is not a good reason to avoid it. It's a free forum after all people can just keep away.



There I would disagree. often people are afraid to say what they think because they are actually being intimidated by others. We avoid talking about religion-be it simply expressing disbelief or annoyance at the inherent bigotry and arrogance for fear we might offend somebody's religious beliefs. Be they Christian or Muslim it is still intimidation that tries to silence criticism.

That's part of the problem in northern ireland if you live in a staunchly protestant area you are intimidated in to accepting the bigotry as normal, disagreeing with it aloud gets your head kicked in. Having people sit there talking to you and trying to work out what religion you are before they do business with you is a very surreal experience-thankfully not a very common one.




a great post as always :-6

one mans freedom fighter is another man's terrorist ,there are two sides to every story ,its a crying shame that generations of people with the same colour skin speaking the same language have grown up hating each other enough blow up each others children and the only reason really is ,that the parents and grandparents before them did

Hmmm Okay since you're all being so very cordial about this .

The song I introduced with was a song sung by BLF members. (Had quite a few Irish amongst them.) They were known as a militant Union. At the height of the organisation the Whitlam government was looking at making Australia a republic. The goverment was ousted by the Governor General with the say so of the Queen. ( The most famous quote in Australian politics came from this era. " Well may we say God save the Queen, because nothing will save the Governor General." He was at one point the most hated man in Australia. He eventually lived out his days back in England. This incident inflamed situations in Australia, and the Unions became extremely strong. Finger pointing and the word Communisn came up a lot.

After this major incident and the Unions became strong they were bashed and arrested on masse. It was a very violent time in Australia (industrial wise) The song I mentioned was often sung at party meetings.

Even today my friend has heard of phrases from older old school police officers "Pay backs a bitch". So it never really ends I suppose. Not while the old school of demonstrators, police, and Union members still have a voice.

That's life.

fuzzywuzzy;1173939 wrote: Hmmm Okay since you're all being so very cordial about this .

The song I introduced with was a song sung by BLF members. (Had quite a few Irish amongst them.) They were known as a militant Union. At the height of the organisation the Whitlam government was looking at making Australia a republic. The goverment was ousted by the Governor General with the say so of the Queen. ( The most famous quote in Australian politics came from this era. " Well may we say God save the Queen, because nothing will save the Governor General." He was at one point the most hated man in Australia. He eventually lived out his days back in England. This incident inflamed situations in Australia, and the Unions became extremely strong. Finger pointing and the word Communisn came up a lot.

After this major incident and the Unions became strong they were bashed and arrested on masse. It was a very violent time in Australia (industrial wise) The song I mentioned was often sung at party meetings.

Even today my friend has heard of phrases from older old school police officers "Pay backs a bitch". So it never really ends I suppose. Not while the old school of demonstrators, police, and Union members still have a voice.

That's life.


Some people don't want it to end-all it takes is a few that won't let go.

If you want a thought provoking exercise Go back to 1689 and the battle of the boyne and what led up to it and it's outcome (the glorious revolution and all that)

Glorious Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



It's hard to do from a 21st century perspective but what would you have done had you been alive at the time? In those days not getting involved was not an option-you'd have been carrying a musket for someone or other. It's amazing how the same issues and arguments come around time and time again.

been awhile since revisiting this ........but now I've learnt over the years ...................I love that song.