The new Amerika-

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:24 am

And it's scary.

Town-hall clash! Cop vs. Obama 'Joker' poster

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:19 am

Lost connection to MySQL server at 'reading authorization packet', system error: 0

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:21 am

Hmm.

Defacing the president's image is now heresy? Since when?

Bad taste maybe but when did bad taste become criminal.

I don't care for the cop's attitude or some of his comments (I can charge you with whatever I want to) and as for that other talking head, how do we have special First Amendment Rights for schools?

Not good.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:28 am

Am I the only one who couldn't access the link? I copied the text & googled. I found several links that ended up with the same error. Finally found the video here:

Town-hall clash! Cop vs. Obama 'Joker' poster

Pasted just in case others had the same problem.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:05 pm

So a school security officer with no arrest authority started flapping his gums. That doesnt seem very scary.

A guy chasing me through a cemetery with a meat cleaver at 3am.....thats scary.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:01 am

I don't know about anywhere else, but our school security are trained police officers with authority to arrest. That comes with the responsibility to know the law. I wonder about Supercop on the video. :yh_think

Just watched it again. I couldn't tell if he was wearing a sidearm or not.

Nomad, it doesn't bother you that the guy felt he had the authority to squelch freedom of speech at a townhall meeting?

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:35 am

Accountable;1235949 wrote: I don't know about anywhere else, but our school security are trained police officers with authority to arrest. That comes with the responsibility to know the law. I wonder about Supercop on the video. :yh_think

Just watched it again. I couldn't tell if he was wearing a sidearm or not.

Nomad, it doesn't bother you that the guy felt he had the authority to squelch freedom of speech at a townhall meeting?

No because there are idiots everywhere. Idiocy cant be controlled. Its an epidemic of vast proportions. The one thing I can control is the battles I choose. They should be worthwhile.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:55 am

A big deal over nothing.. so what?

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:36 am

mikeinie;1235978 wrote: A big deal over nothing.. so what?

Maybe in europe being told to shut up is nothing. Here, it's fighting words.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:18 am

Amazing isn't it? Put a uniform on a small minded person the world over and you end up with a little Hitler. Nine times out of ten they have a moustache, as well...

Here, it's fighting words.

Did they fight? I'd certainly applaud them telling the wee plamph to get lost...

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:08 pm

Clodhopper;1236079 wrote: Amazing isn't it? Put a uniform on a small minded person the world over and you end up with a little Hitler. Nine times out of ten they have a moustache, as well...

Did they fight? I'd certainly applaud them telling the wee plamph to get lost...

Don't know if they fought but I feel a helluva fight coming. :-3

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:29 pm

Nomad;1235976 wrote: No because there are idiots everywhere. Idiocy cant be controlled. Its an epidemic of vast proportions. The one thing I can control is the battles I choose. They should be worthwhile.
Idiots in authority positions need to be challenged and removed. I would think freedom of speech should be considered a worthwhile battle.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:39 pm

hoppy;1235370 wrote: And it's scary.

Town-hall clash! Cop vs. Obama 'Joker' poster

Sounds like a jumped up nobody exceeding his authority by several miles to me - not a sea change in American democracy.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:19 am

Bryn Mawr;1236210 wrote: Sounds like a jumped up nobody exceeding his authority by several miles to me - not a sea change in American democracy.

That's how it seemed to me.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:29 am

hoppy;1236003 wrote: Maybe in europe being told to shut up is nothing. Here, it's fighting words.

We don't have private police forces and the response the security guard got would not have been quite so polite. Why didn't they just tell him to FOKK off?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:14 pm

gmc;1236421 wrote: We don't have private police forces and the response the security guard got would not have been quite so polite. Why didn't they just tell him to FOKK off?
Excellent question. I'm not certain he's private, though. As I said, our school security are real police. This guy might be also. Still, they should've challenged him.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:33 am

Accountable;1236695 wrote: Excellent question. I'm not certain he's private, though. As I said, our school security are real police. This guy might be also. Still, they should've challenged him.

I can't see a jury of his peers being prepared to jail someone for holding a protest sign-especially since it was all videoed and there were plenty of witnesses if anything would the officer have not been guilty of abusing his authority

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:07 am

All of which shows what a limp noodle the protestor really was.

"You can't make me do that! You have no right! I oughta ... okay please don't hurt me."

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:03 am

Accountable;1236819 wrote: All of which shows what a limp noodle the protestor really was.

"You can't make me do that! You have no right! I oughta ... okay please don't hurt me."

It shows a worrying deference to authority:sneaky: I suppose the irony of calling obama a nazi escapes him as well.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:59 pm

gmc;1236843 wrote: It shows a worrying deference to authority:sneaky: I suppose the irony of calling obama a nazi escapes him as well.
I missed that. Who called him a nazi?

I agree about the deference.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:24 am

Accountable;1237161 wrote: I missed that. Who called him a nazi?

I agree about the deference.

The poster the protester was carrying calls him a national socialist-a nazi.

at the bottom-the final solution.

That was the name for the plan to exterminate the jews and other sub-species.

from wikipedia

The National Socialist German Workers' Party (German: De-Nationalsozialistische_Deutsche_Arbeiterpartei.ogg Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (helpÂ·info), abbreviated NSDAP), commonly known in English as the Nazi Party (from the Ger. pronunciation of Nationalsozialist[1]), was a political party in Germany between 1919 and 1945. It was known as the German Workers' Party (DAP) before the name was changed in 1920.

"Final Solution": Overview

The Nazis frequently used euphemistic language to disguise the true nature of their crimes. They used the term “Final Solution” to refer to their plan to annihilate the Jewish people. It is not known when the leaders of Nazi Germany definitively decided to implement the "Final Solution." The genocide or mass destruction of the Jews was the culmination of a decade of increasingly severe discriminatory measures.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:59 am

gmc;1237218 wrote: The poster the protester was carrying calls him a national socialist-a nazi.

at the bottom-the final solution.

That was the name for the plan to exterminate the jews and other sub-species.

from wikipedia

"Final Solution": Overview
Oh. I missed the allusion. I don't think he's planning on exterminate anyone, unless you're willing to stretch the definition, but he definitely has a socialist agenda. He and the people he surrounds himself with (that's how he recommends we judge him - by the people he surrounds himself with) definitely use euphamism and semantics to hide or at least obscure their goals. They've stated time and again that one goal is a single-payer system, and that they're willing to get there in incremental steps, making it their Final Solution, at least for healthcare.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:02 am

Anybody know what the evil clown face paint is supposed to represent?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:27 am

I guess so, but I didn't see the movie. What is the connection?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:32 am

Accountable;1237223 wrote: Oh. I missed the allusion. I don't think he's planning on exterminate anyone, unless you're willing to stretch the definition, but he definitely has a socialist agenda. He and the people he surrounds himself with (that's how he recommends we judge him - by the people he surrounds himself with) definitely use euphamism and semantics to hide or at least obscure their goals. They've stated time and again that one goal is a single-payer system, and that they're willing to get there in incremental steps, making it their Final Solution, at least for healthcare.

Maybe it wasn't deliberate. In which case It's depressing that a citizen of a nation that keep telling us all how they saved us from the nazis doesn't know what national socialism stood for or the connotations of words final solution-has the maker of the poster no jewish friends? Put a picture of hitler on the poster instead of Obama and there is certain black humour about it (no pun intended). Perhaps the guard saw the connection and that's actually what he found offensive about the poster?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:55 am

gmc;1237228 wrote: Maybe it wasn't deliberate. In which case It's depressing that a citizen of a nation that keep telling us all how they saved us from the nazis doesn't know what national socialism stood for or the connotations of words final solution-has the maker of the poster no jewish friends? Put a picture of hitler on the poster instead of Obama and there is certain black humour about it (no pun intended). Perhaps the guard saw the connection and that's actually what he found offensive about the poster?
Could be, but it doesn't matter what he finds offensive when he's in uniform working at one of the greatest demonstrations of liberty that we have. He overstepped.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:16 am

Accountable;1237230 wrote: Could be, but it doesn't matter what he finds offensive when he's in uniform working at one of the greatest demonstrations of liberty that we have. He overstepped.

Very true might explain his anger though. Perhaps the person making the poster sees obama as likely to lead the blacks and hispanics in to stuffing white people in to ovens in order to save on health costs rendering all the fat in to fuel for cars to make up for the oil shortgages.

Or I perhaps read too much in to it and the poster maker was unaware of the connotations which doesn't say much for the level of education.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:19 am

Whos the penguin then?

Just throwing this out there.....Im available.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:02 pm

gmc;1237240 wrote: Very true might explain his anger though. Perhaps the person making the poster sees obama as likely to lead the blacks and hispanics in to stuffing white people in to ovens in order to save on health costs rendering all the fat in to fuel for cars to make up for the oil shortgages.

Or I perhaps read too much in to it and the poster maker was unaware of the connotations which doesn't say much for the level of education.
Oh I'm sure whoever made the poster knew exactly what the inference was. Maybe not the guy that held it (did you notice it was commercially made?) but definitely the originator. Hyperbole.

luciferjohn · Post by **luciferjohn** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:10 pm

hoppy;1235370 wrote: And it's scary.

Town-hall clash! Cop vs. Obama 'Joker' poster

it truly is frieghtening when we are losing or right to post our oppinion, but i remember the same games under the previous administration, voting doesnt work if everyone is the same,well i hope we can survive as a free nation but i truly doubt it with each administration we lose a little more, and it really hurts me to say that but its what i see.

-1:-1

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:21 pm

Nomad;1235886 wrote: So a school security officer with no arrest authority started flapping his gums. That doesnt seem very scary.

A guy chasing me through a cemetery with a meat cleaver at 3am.....thats scary.

well stop digging up his dead grandmother!!!!!!

In all seriousness though America is going through the change......Kind of like menopause. It's a good thing you needed it , you can't keep going on how you have been . You're sending you're children crazy.

Was listening to our Law Institute professor, (president of the Bar of Victoria) the other day on the ABC. Regulary they send law students over to different countries to study differences etc. . One of his students came back and told him of a time she was in court in one of the southern states. Apparently the judge sipped coke all the way through the case and filed her nails. When she spoke to the lawyers she was disrespectful and instead of consulting her law she would say "wrong" (directed at the lawyers) and continue with the proceedings. then at the end promptly comdemmed a 23 year old to death. WTF?

It is indeed time for a change in your country when even Judges take an important job like death sentencing in such a blazae way.....Very sad.

There is also a very real need to readdress a war that has gone on for 8 years now. Your people are worn out and now broke.

yes it's time for a chnage.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:26 pm

Ian;1237314 wrote: Man is pulled over by police for displaying an Anti-Obama sign

YouTube - Man is pulled over by police for displaying an Anti-Obama sign

Boy Suspended for Wearing Anti-Obama T-Shirt

YouTube - Boy Suspended for Wearing Anti-Obama T-Shirt

Try being a editor of a newspaper in Sri Lanka. why are they the only people who admit using terrorism laws to stop public opinion . They get away with it because it's near a war zone. Of course people are being pulled over etc. for displaying signs of anti government ...It's the law. didn't you guys notice that over 100 countries took on different levels of these laws after you guys did? Ask your government to release the laws for all to see, so every single one of you know exactly where you stand ......and remember these laws go back to Reagan , they are just ammended by consequtive governments.

luciferjohn · Post by **luciferjohn** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:34 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1237482 wrote: Try being a editor of a newspaper in Sri Lanka. why are they the only people who admit using terrorism laws to stop public opinion . They get away with it because it's near a war zone. Of course people are being pulled over etc. for displaying signs of anti government ...It's the law. didn't you guys notice that over 100 countries took on different levels of these laws after you guys did? Ask your government to release the laws for all to see, so every single one of you know exactly where you stand ......and remember these laws go back to Reagan , they are just ammended by consequtive governments.

this is true we are undereducated about our government for the most part , there are only a select few who see these new "laws" being put in place, and they are ridiculed and arrested, the arresting of protesters went all the way back to the vietnam war(police action)and people still dont see it or dont want to,but america is hasnt been a free country scince approx. 1958, if not before then.

-1:-1

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:54 pm

Ian;1237257 wrote: I found this article: Spoof poster of Obama's face painted as The Joker branded 'dangerous and mean-spirited' | Mail Online
Thanks! The article didn't explain the significance of the Joker/Obama tie, but hey, maybe it was nothing more than making Obama look like a bad guy.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:04 pm

Ian;1237314 wrote: Man is pulled over by police for displaying an Anti-Obama sign

YouTube - Man is pulled over by police for displaying an Anti-Obama sign

Boy Suspended for Wearing Anti-Obama T-Shirt

YouTube - Boy Suspended for Wearing Anti-Obama T-Shirt
Nothing is as important as freedom of speech. Without that, there is no freedom at all.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:13 pm

Okay tell me one book on the US best sellers list that applauded anti government sentiment. They are out there they are well written and documated . why aren't people reading them? There is no freedom of speech in your country and I really don't understand why you guys see what you had in 1958 as freedom of speech. Because not everyone had it...even now, less so.

I would say even before 1958 you guys lost your rights of free speech. Way back to just after the first world war.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:21 pm

No argument here. Woodrow Wilson had political prisoners.

All the more reason to wrest back as much as we can.

luciferjohn · Post by **luciferjohn** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:31 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1237522 wrote: Okay tell me one book on the US best sellers list that applauded anti government sentiment. They are out there they are well written and documated . why aren't people reading them? There is no freedom of speech in your country and I really don't understand why you guys see what you had in 1958 as freedom of speech. Because not everyone had it...even now, less so.

I would say even before 1958 you guys lost your rights of free speech. Way back to just after the first world war.

you'll get no argument from me, the fact is what ive seen in my time on this planet as far as our freedoms is, they went from hiding it to arresting it, i was born in 1973 and scince then the noose has gotten so much tighter its frieghtening orwells 1984 is so close now i see parts of it everyday.but the date i gave was a shot the fact is prior to that only the big things are noticable but if you dig you find stuff like our irs isnt part of the government, stuff like that.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:44 am

luciferjohn;1237486 wrote: this is true we are undereducated about our government for the most part , there are only a select few who see these new "laws" being put in place, and they are ridiculed and arrested, the arresting of protesters went all the way back to the vietnam war(police action)and people still dont see it or dont want to,but america is hasnt been a free country scince approx. 1958, if not before then.

-1:-1

Interesting date to pick.

Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.

VI.

Down the long lane of the history yet to be written America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect.

Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.

One of the things that struck me about the poster, and why i commented on it, is the comparison of obama with hitler. Though from the response I gather it is a comparison that most americans wouldn't get and was perhaps unintentional.

As an outsider it seems to me you have had a fascist state-although when you state it in such bald terms most americans spit out the dummy. If anything that obama got elected shows a capacity of the people to get back control of their government. It seemed as if the right in america were unstoppable. Though the reality may be very different-not being american I can't really claim to understand american politics

We use the terms right and left differently from americans-although since we (europeans that is) invented the term I would argue we have the right of it. The origins of the term right wing go back to the french revolution when right-wing referred to seating arrangements in the french parliament; those who sat on the right supported the monarchy, the aristocracy and the established church and were against the people having any say in how they were ruled or having any right to demand change or that govt should care about them at all the only function of the people being to pay their taxes and serve the ruling classes and fight for them when required and be duly grateful for their lot in life. Instead of aristocracy you now have corporate elites that wield an influence that can steam roll ordinary people and their lives in the name of good for the nation when they really mean good for them and ordinary people pay the price in ruined health and environment.

Had it been Bush portrayed like that, since most europeans see him as the leader of a right wing aggressor state it would have made sense and be seen as a left wing protest poster.

you'll get no argument from me, the fact is what ive seen in my time on this planet as far as our freedoms is, they went from hiding it to arresting it, i was born in 1973 and scince then the noose has gotten so much tighter its frieghtening orwells 1984 is so close now i see parts of it everyday.but the date i gave was a shot the fact is prior to that only the big things are noticable but if you dig you find stuff like our irs isnt part of the government, stuff like that.

Is 1984 still banned in the states

Banned And Rejected Book " 1984 " | NowPublic Photo Archives

Written by George Orwell in 1949, 1984 is a novel that depicts an extremely grim future of society. The society has no free will, truth, or privacy. The book was first banned in 1984 by the American Library Association because of its â€œbleak warning of totalitarian government and censorship.â€ Many see the novel as one that is expressing immoral themes, as well as being pro-Communist. The book tosses around the idea of â€œBig Brother,â€ which is still highly influential and popular in culture today. The book has also been challenged for sexual themes.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad-how can anyone see it as being pro-communist? They could at least read it first. When I was at school it was one of the set books for higher english-just checked- it still is along with brave new world and the handmaids tale that's enough to depress anyone.

luciferjohn · Post by **luciferjohn** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:19 am

im not sure if it is still banned when i was in school my social studies teacher made us read it as an example of how things can go wrong if people become complacent.