This is often a topic I discuss with friends and colleagues.
What do you guys think?
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
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lou lou belle
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Should the UK bring back the death penalty
Here in Illinois we've had major issues with death sentences in the recent past. We stopped executions and reexamined those convictions.
Here's a link you may find interesting-
Death Penalty Information Center
I think there are acts that require the death penalty. But I'd be much more likely to refuse to convict someone who turned vigilante for a loved one then I would be to impose the sentence I think..
Probably zero sense here, eh?
yh_rotfl
Here's a link you may find interesting-
Death Penalty Information Center
I think there are acts that require the death penalty. But I'd be much more likely to refuse to convict someone who turned vigilante for a loved one then I would be to impose the sentence I think..
Probably zero sense here, eh?
yh_rotflI expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
Ian;1242918 wrote: I think it's worth mentioning that no human being or state is allowed to kill another....
I've no idea what you think the British Army's doing in Afghanistan then.
I've no idea what you think the British Army's doing in Afghanistan then.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
lou lou belle;1242908 wrote: This is often a topic I discuss with friends and colleagues.
What do you guys think?
Do you think the British courts are incapable of repeating a miscarriage of justice like BBC NEWS | UK | England | Hampshire | Man 'responsible' for 1979 murder describes?
Do you think "Sean Hodgson, 58, of County Durham, spent 27 years in jail for the murder before his conviction was quashed" would have been as prime a candidate for capital punishment as could be found, if it had still been available when he was sentenced?
What do you guys think?
Do you think the British courts are incapable of repeating a miscarriage of justice like BBC NEWS | UK | England | Hampshire | Man 'responsible' for 1979 murder describes?
Do you think "Sean Hodgson, 58, of County Durham, spent 27 years in jail for the murder before his conviction was quashed" would have been as prime a candidate for capital punishment as could be found, if it had still been available when he was sentenced?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
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Should the UK bring back the death penalty
spot;1242971 wrote: Do you think the British courts are incapable of repeating a miscarriage of justice like BBC NEWS | UK | England | Hampshire | Man 'responsible' for 1979 murder describes?
Do you think "Sean Hodgson, 58, of County Durham, spent 27 years in jail for the murder before his conviction was quashed" would have been as prime a candidate for capital punishment as could be found, if it had still been available when he was sentenced?
I am all in favour of the death penalty in some cases where DNA evidence is beyond doubt along with forensics. However, no amount of technology will compensate for police Incompetence and that Is the danger.
Do you think "Sean Hodgson, 58, of County Durham, spent 27 years in jail for the murder before his conviction was quashed" would have been as prime a candidate for capital punishment as could be found, if it had still been available when he was sentenced?
I am all in favour of the death penalty in some cases where DNA evidence is beyond doubt along with forensics. However, no amount of technology will compensate for police Incompetence and that Is the danger.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
oscar;1242992 wrote: I am all in favour of the death penalty in some cases where DNA evidence is beyond doubt along with forensics.Do you know what? If I wanted to stitch someone up, planting DNA evidence at a crime scene would be my first and main idea.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
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Should the UK bring back the death penalty
spot;1242996 wrote: Do you know what? If I wanted to stitch someone up, planting DNA evidence at a crime scene would be my first and main idea. Very true Spot.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
Ian;1242997 wrote: Heroin.
No, Ian, they're professionals, this isn't Vietnam we're talking about. The world's moved on. What the British Army's doing in Afghanistan is they're killing people there. That's their trade. "no human being or state is allowed to kill another" is rather meaningless while the law allows them to do it legally, wouldn't you say?
No, Ian, they're professionals, this isn't Vietnam we're talking about. The world's moved on. What the British Army's doing in Afghanistan is they're killing people there. That's their trade. "no human being or state is allowed to kill another" is rather meaningless while the law allows them to do it legally, wouldn't you say?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
oscar;1242992 wrote: [QUOTE=spot;1242971]Do you think the British courts are incapable of repeating a miscarriage of justice like BBC NEWS | UK | England | Hampshire | Man 'responsible' for 1979 murder describes?
Do you think "Sean Hodgson, 58, of County Durham, spent 27 years in jail for the murder before his conviction was quashed" would have been as prime a candidate for capital punishment as could be found, if it had still been available when he was sentenced?
I am all in favour of the death penalty in some cases where DNA evidence is beyond doubt along with forensics. However, no amount of technology will compensate for police Incompetence and that Is the danger.
Both of your sentences are undoubtedly true. Neither of them actually answer either of the two questions I put to lou lou though. You might choose to answer them if you feel inclined, it would then make some sense of your choosing to quote my post.
Do you think "Sean Hodgson, 58, of County Durham, spent 27 years in jail for the murder before his conviction was quashed" would have been as prime a candidate for capital punishment as could be found, if it had still been available when he was sentenced?
I am all in favour of the death penalty in some cases where DNA evidence is beyond doubt along with forensics. However, no amount of technology will compensate for police Incompetence and that Is the danger.
Both of your sentences are undoubtedly true. Neither of them actually answer either of the two questions I put to lou lou though. You might choose to answer them if you feel inclined, it would then make some sense of your choosing to quote my post.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
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Should the UK bring back the death penalty
spot;1243005 wrote: Both of your sentences are undoubtedly true. Neither of them actually answer either of the two questions I put to lou lou though. You might choose to answer them if you feel inclined, it would then make some sense of your choosing to quote my post. Don't be so pinickerty.
I will calrify what I meant just for you.
I am in favour of the death penalty in principle in such cases as Charles Manson ( The US version), Peter Sutcliffe etc, but your post made me realise that all the while we have incompetent and corrupt police, we can not take that chance.
I will calrify what I meant just for you.
I am in favour of the death penalty in principle in such cases as Charles Manson ( The US version), Peter Sutcliffe etc, but your post made me realise that all the while we have incompetent and corrupt police, we can not take that chance.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
oscar;1243010 wrote: Don't be so pinickerty.
I will calrify what I meant just for you.
I am in favour of the death penalty in principle in such cases as Charles Manson ( The US version), Peter Sutcliffe etc, but your post made me realise that all the while we have incompetent and corrupt police, we can not take that chance.
The police produced the best available evidence at the time. The jury found the chap guilty on the basis of the evidence. The judge was fortunately not allowed to hang him.
I will calrify what I meant just for you.
I am in favour of the death penalty in principle in such cases as Charles Manson ( The US version), Peter Sutcliffe etc, but your post made me realise that all the while we have incompetent and corrupt police, we can not take that chance.
The police produced the best available evidence at the time. The jury found the chap guilty on the basis of the evidence. The judge was fortunately not allowed to hang him.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
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Should the UK bring back the death penalty
spot;1243016 wrote: The police produced the best available evidence at the time. The jury found the chap guilty on the basis of the evidence. The judge was fortunately not allowed to hang him. 'Best available evidence'.. Yes, Exactly.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
oscar;1243019 wrote: 'Best available evidence'.. Yes, Exactly.
"best available evidence at the time" - a far cry from police incompetence which is what you were claiming for the context.
"best available evidence at the time" - a far cry from police incompetence which is what you were claiming for the context.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
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Should the UK bring back the death penalty
spot;1243022 wrote: "best available evidence at the time" - a far cry from police incompetence which is what you were claiming for the context.
You agreed with me when I flagged up police incompetence... so what's your point?
You agreed with me when I flagged up police incompetence... so what's your point?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
spot;1243016 wrote: The police produced the best available evidence at the time. The jury found the chap guilty on the basis of the evidence. The judge was fortunately not allowed to hang him.
One of the issues we've uncovered over here was apparent bribery and corruption. It takes a special kind of person to falsify evidence to close a case knowing someone could lose their life over it, IMO.
But the advancement in DNA testing and other sciences, have also had a lot to do with finding innocence.
One of the issues we've uncovered over here was apparent bribery and corruption. It takes a special kind of person to falsify evidence to close a case knowing someone could lose their life over it, IMO.
But the advancement in DNA testing and other sciences, have also had a lot to do with finding innocence.
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
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Oscar Namechange
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Should the UK bring back the death penalty
flopstock;1243036 wrote: One of the issues we've uncovered over here was apparent bribery and corruption. It takes a special kind of person to falsify evidence to close a case knowing someone could lose their life over it, IMO.
But the advancement in DNA testing and other sciences, have also had a lot to do with finding innocence. I agree but as Spot said, DNA could be planted by corrupt police and Unfortunately, this country has a history of such Shananghans. You say it takes a special kind of person to falsify evidence knowing they would cost some-one their life but there are police who put their promotion before anything else.
I dread to think For example, If we had the death penalty during the trials of The Birmingham Six and The Guildford Four which was blatent police corruption.
But the advancement in DNA testing and other sciences, have also had a lot to do with finding innocence. I agree but as Spot said, DNA could be planted by corrupt police and Unfortunately, this country has a history of such Shananghans. You say it takes a special kind of person to falsify evidence knowing they would cost some-one their life but there are police who put their promotion before anything else.
I dread to think For example, If we had the death penalty during the trials of The Birmingham Six and The Guildford Four which was blatent police corruption.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
i say no to death sentence but if ya are a murderer you should do life no parole
locked up for good
locked up for good
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
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Oscar Namechange
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Should the UK bring back the death penalty
el guapo;1243055 wrote: i say no to death sentence but if ya are a murderer you should do life no parole
locked up for good
If the proof is unquestionable and police proceedure and evidence is to the letter, then I totally agree with you. You know I do Jesse :-4
locked up for good
If the proof is unquestionable and police proceedure and evidence is to the letter, then I totally agree with you. You know I do Jesse :-4
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Should the UK bring back the death penalty
BBC News | UK | Life of Crime | Miscarriages of Justice
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
Murders, rapes... shocking crimes of the 65 killers released under Labour to strike again
By James Slack
Murderers freed from life sentences under Labour have committed a string of rapes and killings.
Ministers last night admitted the full scale of reoffending by so-called lifers. After their release, the 65 killers committed at least three further murders, one attempted murder and three rapes.
They were also responsible for crimes such as a paedophile attack, two woundings causing grievous bodily harm and three offences of kidnapping, false imprisonment or abduction.
Reoffending: Convicted criminals released early from life sentences are responsible for a string of murders and rapes
Other crimes included burglary, robbery, drugs and firearms offences, threats to kill, indecent assault and violence.
The catalogue of offences raises questions over whether it can ever be considered 'safe' to release a convicted murderer.
More...Revealed: Police blunders that left knife thug free to murder Harry Potter actor
Experts blamed prison overcrowding for increasing the pressure on the Parole Board to set the killers free.
Ministers have failed to build enough jail spaces to meet demand, and have had to implement a series of panic measures such as early release.
Whitehall officials were last night unable to provide a full list of the 65 reoffending murderers' names. Officials said there were 'possible data protection' issues.
But cases uncovered by the Mail show shocking levels of violence, paedophile attacks and senseless, brutal murders. They include the attempted murder and rape of a 17-year-old girl who was parked in a car with her boyfriend, the fatal stabbing of a mother of four, and a freed maniac hacking his victim into 16 pieces.
A convict originally jailed for battering a woman to death was released - only to lure a ten-year-old boy back to a flat where he threatened to slash the child's throat with a craft knife before raping him.
The figures do not include the number of serious crimes - including murder - committed by criminals such as rapists and those jailed for manslaughter originally given a discretionary rather than mandatory life sentence. On average, they serve only six years before they are back on the streets.
Enlarge Over the past two years alone, criminals on probation have been responsible for 121 murders and 44 cases of manslaughter, along with 103 rapes and 80 kidnappings.
In total they have been responsible for more than 1,000 serious violent or sexual offences in the two years from April 2006, while almost 400 more suspects are awaiting trial.
Tory justice spokesman Edward Garnier, who obtained the figures, added: 'Life-sentenced prisoners should not be released where there is a danger of further serious offending, and those who are judged suitable for release should be subject to the utmost supervision for the rest of their lives.'
Criminologist Dr David Green said the Government's public protection strategies were not working. Offenders had large periods of time when they were not monitored and free to reoffend, he said.
This was despite ministers reassuring the Parole Board that it was safe to set criminals free.
Probation staff charged with monitoring the released killers point out they are under enormous-pressure, with some officers expected to deal with dozens of different cases at the same time. Worryingly, it is predicted the number of staff will be cut in coming months as budget cuts begin to bite.
Meanwhile, the Parole Board has been placed under increased pressure by human rights law. The release of any mandatory lifer can take place only after a hearing by the board.
The Human Rights Act, reinforced by a European court ruling in 2002, means convicts are now entitled to a barrister - paid for by legal aid - to represent them at their hearing.
Critics have suggested the board, not wishing to have its decisions overturned, is paying more attention to the rights of the criminal than the public.
Justice Minister David Hanson said: 'Only a very small minority - just over six per cent - of mandatory life-sentenced prisoners who were released between January 1 2003 and February 17 2009, were recalled and found guilty of a further offence.
'But any further offence by this group of offenders is a serious matter. The decision as to whether to release a mandatory life sentenced prisoner is an extremely difficult one. The risk to the public can be reduced but never eliminated.
Read more: Murders, rapes... shocking crimes of the 65 killers released under Labour to strike again | Mail Online
By James Slack
Murderers freed from life sentences under Labour have committed a string of rapes and killings.
Ministers last night admitted the full scale of reoffending by so-called lifers. After their release, the 65 killers committed at least three further murders, one attempted murder and three rapes.
They were also responsible for crimes such as a paedophile attack, two woundings causing grievous bodily harm and three offences of kidnapping, false imprisonment or abduction.
Reoffending: Convicted criminals released early from life sentences are responsible for a string of murders and rapes
Other crimes included burglary, robbery, drugs and firearms offences, threats to kill, indecent assault and violence.
The catalogue of offences raises questions over whether it can ever be considered 'safe' to release a convicted murderer.
More...Revealed: Police blunders that left knife thug free to murder Harry Potter actor
Experts blamed prison overcrowding for increasing the pressure on the Parole Board to set the killers free.
Ministers have failed to build enough jail spaces to meet demand, and have had to implement a series of panic measures such as early release.
Whitehall officials were last night unable to provide a full list of the 65 reoffending murderers' names. Officials said there were 'possible data protection' issues.
But cases uncovered by the Mail show shocking levels of violence, paedophile attacks and senseless, brutal murders. They include the attempted murder and rape of a 17-year-old girl who was parked in a car with her boyfriend, the fatal stabbing of a mother of four, and a freed maniac hacking his victim into 16 pieces.
A convict originally jailed for battering a woman to death was released - only to lure a ten-year-old boy back to a flat where he threatened to slash the child's throat with a craft knife before raping him.
The figures do not include the number of serious crimes - including murder - committed by criminals such as rapists and those jailed for manslaughter originally given a discretionary rather than mandatory life sentence. On average, they serve only six years before they are back on the streets.
Enlarge Over the past two years alone, criminals on probation have been responsible for 121 murders and 44 cases of manslaughter, along with 103 rapes and 80 kidnappings.
In total they have been responsible for more than 1,000 serious violent or sexual offences in the two years from April 2006, while almost 400 more suspects are awaiting trial.
Tory justice spokesman Edward Garnier, who obtained the figures, added: 'Life-sentenced prisoners should not be released where there is a danger of further serious offending, and those who are judged suitable for release should be subject to the utmost supervision for the rest of their lives.'
Criminologist Dr David Green said the Government's public protection strategies were not working. Offenders had large periods of time when they were not monitored and free to reoffend, he said.
This was despite ministers reassuring the Parole Board that it was safe to set criminals free.
Probation staff charged with monitoring the released killers point out they are under enormous-pressure, with some officers expected to deal with dozens of different cases at the same time. Worryingly, it is predicted the number of staff will be cut in coming months as budget cuts begin to bite.
Meanwhile, the Parole Board has been placed under increased pressure by human rights law. The release of any mandatory lifer can take place only after a hearing by the board.
The Human Rights Act, reinforced by a European court ruling in 2002, means convicts are now entitled to a barrister - paid for by legal aid - to represent them at their hearing.
Critics have suggested the board, not wishing to have its decisions overturned, is paying more attention to the rights of the criminal than the public.
Justice Minister David Hanson said: 'Only a very small minority - just over six per cent - of mandatory life-sentenced prisoners who were released between January 1 2003 and February 17 2009, were recalled and found guilty of a further offence.
'But any further offence by this group of offenders is a serious matter. The decision as to whether to release a mandatory life sentenced prisoner is an extremely difficult one. The risk to the public can be reduced but never eliminated.
Read more: Murders, rapes... shocking crimes of the 65 killers released under Labour to strike again | Mail Online
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
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lou lou belle
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Should the UK bring back the death penalty
spot;1243005 wrote: Both of your sentences are undoubtedly true. Neither of them actually answer either of the two questions I put to lou lou though. You might choose to answer them if you feel inclined, it would then make some sense of your choosing to quote my post.
I am not suprised by some of these replies Spot, I am not in favour of the death penalty as I would feel uneasy knowing that another life has been taken to justify his/her actions. I do believe that life should mean life , when sentenced. I have a very good friend that works in the local Psychiatric hospital and deals with people that have committed murder. They are allowed back into our society when the Home Office feels that they are no longer a threat to our society. This is B*ll**t, my friend has dealt with offenders that have said to her that they still have dark thoughts about harming others. Great eh? She see's them walking out and about in public, just heavily medicated. This cannot be right?
I am not suprised by some of these replies Spot, I am not in favour of the death penalty as I would feel uneasy knowing that another life has been taken to justify his/her actions. I do believe that life should mean life , when sentenced. I have a very good friend that works in the local Psychiatric hospital and deals with people that have committed murder. They are allowed back into our society when the Home Office feels that they are no longer a threat to our society. This is B*ll**t, my friend has dealt with offenders that have said to her that they still have dark thoughts about harming others. Great eh? She see's them walking out and about in public, just heavily medicated. This cannot be right?
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
lou lou belle;1243423 wrote: I am not suprised by some of these replies Spot, I am not in favour of the death penalty as I would feel uneasy knowing that another life has been taken to justify his/her actions. I do believe that life should mean life , when sentenced. I have a very good friend that works in the local Psychiatric hospital and deals with people that have committed murder. They are allowed back into our society when the Home Office feels that they are no longer a threat to our society. This is B*ll**t, my friend has dealt with offenders that have said to her that they still have dark thoughts about harming others. Great eh? She see's them walking out and about in public, just heavily medicated. This cannot be right?
No of course it's not right and there may well be many cases where release before death is unjustifiable and wrong. I'd set a more reasonable test of when the person represents no more threat to the population at large than the average adult on the street does. That, ideally, is what the parole system aims to achieve but obviously it's flawed given your comments. It's not flawed in that it provides a parole system though. The underlying question is what do you think the penal system exists for, what's its purpose.
No of course it's not right and there may well be many cases where release before death is unjustifiable and wrong. I'd set a more reasonable test of when the person represents no more threat to the population at large than the average adult on the street does. That, ideally, is what the parole system aims to achieve but obviously it's flawed given your comments. It's not flawed in that it provides a parole system though. The underlying question is what do you think the penal system exists for, what's its purpose.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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lou lou belle
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Should the UK bring back the death penalty
spot;1243465 wrote: No of course it's not right and there may well be many cases where release before death is unjustifiable and wrong. I'd set a more reasonable test of when the person represents no more threat to the population at large than the average adult on the street does. That, ideally, is what the parole system aims to achieve but obviously it's flawed given your comments. It's not flawed in that it provides a parole system though. The underlying question is what do you think the penal system exists for, what's its purpose.
I think the penal system in the UK has evolved into a secure holding for offenders and nothing more.
The inmates have many home comforts, TV, telephones, illegal drugs and regular contact with their familes. What deterrent is that?
If I hear the human rights banner being waved, I will scream. What about the rights of the victims?
At least if you are sentenced to life, then you should be made to pay back our society by working in prison. Contributing fully as recompense for their crime and for their life.
I think the penal system in the UK has evolved into a secure holding for offenders and nothing more.
The inmates have many home comforts, TV, telephones, illegal drugs and regular contact with their familes. What deterrent is that?
If I hear the human rights banner being waved, I will scream. What about the rights of the victims?
At least if you are sentenced to life, then you should be made to pay back our society by working in prison. Contributing fully as recompense for their crime and for their life.
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
You'd not rather work toward developing an effective rehabilitation service then? Punishment, vengeance and an extremely ineffective deterrence are more important?
I'll tell you what would actually be an effective deterrent. The certainty of rapid and accurate detection, investigation and putting-before-the-DPP-for-prosecution of all criminal acts. Which is, you'll notice, entirely a policing responsibility and which is, you might agree, non-existent in the UK at the moment - it's neither rapid nor accurate nor prosecuted and far too many classes of crime don't even get significantly detected much less investigated.
I'll tell you what would actually be an effective deterrent. The certainty of rapid and accurate detection, investigation and putting-before-the-DPP-for-prosecution of all criminal acts. Which is, you'll notice, entirely a policing responsibility and which is, you might agree, non-existent in the UK at the moment - it's neither rapid nor accurate nor prosecuted and far too many classes of crime don't even get significantly detected much less investigated.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
lou lou belle
- Posts: 235
- Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:33 am
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
spot;1243486 wrote: You'd not rather work toward developing an effective rehabilitation service then? Punishment, vengeance and an extremely ineffective deterrence are more important?
I'll tell you what would actually be an effective deterrent. The certainty of rapid and accurate detection, investigation and putting-before-the-DPP-for-prosecution of all criminal acts. Which is, you'll notice, entirely a policing responsibility and which is, you might agree, non-existent in the UK at the moment - it's neither rapid nor accurate nor prosecuted and far too many classes of crime don't even get significantly detected much less investigated.
I agree, it would be beneficial to work towards developing an effective rehabilitaion service but is that not what the probation services are supposed to be doing now?
There has to punishment for the crime. I dont believe in vengeance, and what deterrents have we in place. This would involve going back to the grass roots of society and dealing with education and moral values.
Rapid and accurate detection, investigation and putting before the DPP is a policing responsibity. All police forces are now accountable for detection rates and
as far as being rapid is concerned this is not down to the police. This is down to the CPS. A serious offender may be caught, it could take at least 6 months to get his trial to court. This is the courts responsibility.
I'll tell you what would actually be an effective deterrent. The certainty of rapid and accurate detection, investigation and putting-before-the-DPP-for-prosecution of all criminal acts. Which is, you'll notice, entirely a policing responsibility and which is, you might agree, non-existent in the UK at the moment - it's neither rapid nor accurate nor prosecuted and far too many classes of crime don't even get significantly detected much less investigated.
I agree, it would be beneficial to work towards developing an effective rehabilitaion service but is that not what the probation services are supposed to be doing now?
There has to punishment for the crime. I dont believe in vengeance, and what deterrents have we in place. This would involve going back to the grass roots of society and dealing with education and moral values.
Rapid and accurate detection, investigation and putting before the DPP is a policing responsibity. All police forces are now accountable for detection rates and
as far as being rapid is concerned this is not down to the police. This is down to the CPS. A serious offender may be caught, it could take at least 6 months to get his trial to court. This is the courts responsibility.
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
lou lou belle;1243490 wrote: I agree, it would be beneficial to work towards developing an effective rehabilitaion service but is that not what the probation services are supposed to be doing now?How on earth can rehabilitation be performed in the community? What function does the probation service perform within jails?
Rehabilitation in the UK is solely a function of the prison service and so far very few prison schemes have had any demonstrable impact on recidivism. There's no incentive for prisons to rehabilitate, they have no targets to meet and they have no form of positive feedback on the outcome.
Given an incentive the prison system might get its collective finger out and do something productive to break the pattern of re-offending. Given effective deterrence there would be fewer people committing crimes in the first place.
if it weren't for this overwhelming public scream for vengeance politicians might actually be able to have an effect.
Rehabilitation in the UK is solely a function of the prison service and so far very few prison schemes have had any demonstrable impact on recidivism. There's no incentive for prisons to rehabilitate, they have no targets to meet and they have no form of positive feedback on the outcome.
Given an incentive the prison system might get its collective finger out and do something productive to break the pattern of re-offending. Given effective deterrence there would be fewer people committing crimes in the first place.
if it weren't for this overwhelming public scream for vengeance politicians might actually be able to have an effect.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
lou lou belle
- Posts: 235
- Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:33 am
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
spot;1243495 wrote: How on earth can rehabilitation be performed in the community? What function does the probation service perform within jails?
They do work closely with the prison service. They are supposed to support the meet the offender prior to leaving prison and try and support them when they leave.
Have a look at this link, it does actually make boring reading. So perhaps at
bedtime might be an option.
http://www.probation.homeoffice.gov.uk/ ... nglish).pd
Rehabilitation in the UK is solely a function of the prison service and so far very few prison schemes have had any demonstrable impact on recidivism.
There's no incentive for prisons to rehabilitate, they have no targets to meet and they have no form of positive feedback on the outcome.
Given an incentive the prison system might get its collective finger out and do something productive to break the pattern of re-offending. Given effective deterrence there would be fewer people committing crimes in the first place.
if it weren't for this overwhelming public scream for vengeance politicians might actually be able to have an effect.
I totally agree with you, the prison service does not fulfil the necessary requirements needed for rehabilitation. Because lets face it, if it was successful we would,nt have repeat offenders. The answer could be enabling them on release to be able to get work. It can be very difficult as most companies require criminal record checks and references. All of which can be a restricting for them.
You have to also take into account the crime that was committed. If it involves fraud, deception or drug offences a lot of employers will not want to employ them.
If the crime is of a far more serious crime, ie rape or murder then they have no hope at all. Its a mine field and one that wont be solved overnight that is for sure.
They do work closely with the prison service. They are supposed to support the meet the offender prior to leaving prison and try and support them when they leave.
Have a look at this link, it does actually make boring reading. So perhaps at
bedtime might be an option.
http://www.probation.homeoffice.gov.uk/ ... nglish).pd
Rehabilitation in the UK is solely a function of the prison service and so far very few prison schemes have had any demonstrable impact on recidivism.
There's no incentive for prisons to rehabilitate, they have no targets to meet and they have no form of positive feedback on the outcome.
Given an incentive the prison system might get its collective finger out and do something productive to break the pattern of re-offending. Given effective deterrence there would be fewer people committing crimes in the first place.
if it weren't for this overwhelming public scream for vengeance politicians might actually be able to have an effect.
I totally agree with you, the prison service does not fulfil the necessary requirements needed for rehabilitation. Because lets face it, if it was successful we would,nt have repeat offenders. The answer could be enabling them on release to be able to get work. It can be very difficult as most companies require criminal record checks and references. All of which can be a restricting for them.
You have to also take into account the crime that was committed. If it involves fraud, deception or drug offences a lot of employers will not want to employ them.
If the crime is of a far more serious crime, ie rape or murder then they have no hope at all. Its a mine field and one that wont be solved overnight that is for sure.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
lou lou belle;1243476 wrote: The inmates have many home comforts, TV, telephones, illegal drugs and regular contact with their familes. What deterrent is that?
.
That is the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read.
.
That is the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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lou lou belle
- Posts: 235
- Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:33 am
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
oscar;1243526 wrote: That is the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read.
Really, from the Daily Mail, and by the way i have visited over 12 prisons I know what I am talking about.
Drugs, prostitutes and satellite TV - no wonder inmates don't want to escape from Britain's 'cushy' prisons | Mail Online
Drugs, prostitutes and satellite TV - no wonder inmates don't want to escape from Britain's 'cushy' prisonsBy MATTHEW HICKLEY
Last updated at 16:52 25 April 2008
Inmates have such a good time they even pass up the chances of escape, according to Glyn Travis.
Savaging Labour's prisons policy, he told how inmates benefit from satellite television, free telephone calls, breakfast in bed and officers who treat them with kid gloves for fear of breaching their human rights.
Scroll down for more ...
Home comforts: Prisoners have access to Sky TV according to Prison Officers Association's Glyn Travis
Overstretched staff are powerless to stem the tide of illegal drugs, he said.
Mr Travis, assistant general secretary of the Prison Officers' Association, warned that every jail in the land was overcrowded and under-resourced, and that the entire system was "snowballing out of control".
"It tells me there's something wrong in society when people are breaking into prisons to bring in drugs and prostitutes but the prisoners are quite happy to stay inside," he added.
The devastating assessment from a senior union leader is a crushing blow for the Government, which is struggling to cope with the chronic overcrowding crisis in prisons.
Mr Travis said: "Drugs are coming into prisons at a rate that's so dramatic that drugs in prisons are actually cheaper than on the outside.
"There's a classic case in Yorkshire where members of the public were climbing over the prison walls to take drugs into the prison.
"They put up ladders to climb over the walls, but prisoners were so comfortable in the environment they were living in that none of them tried to climb up the ladders and escape."
Scroll down for more ...
Everthorpe jail in Yorkshire: A drug dealer got in with a ladder
Mr Travis was referring to Everthorpe Prison in East Yorkshire, where an investigation earlier this year found that a drug dealer was breaking in at night using a ladder, and passing drugs to inmates through their cell windows.
He also sold women's clothing to a transvestite prisoner.
Mr Travis told Talk Sport radio that taxpayers would be "appalled" if they knew of the conditions enjoyed by criminals, including Britain's most notorious rapists, murderers and paedophiles.
"Prisoners receive a wage for being in prison," he said.
Prison officers' leader Glyn Travis
"They receive a bed, a TV in all cells, Sky television in most areas for recreational use, free telephones, breakfast in bed on many occasions, cash bonuses for good behaviour, and prison staff are forced to deal with them in such a subservient way it's ridiculous.
"Prison is no longer a deterrent. It is merely an occupational hazard."
Jails are often close to anarchy, and staff morale is at rock-bottom due to under-funding.
"We are trying to manage a system that's just snowballing out of control.
"The drug problem within prisons is massive.
"What prison officers find is only the tip of the iceberg. The quantity of drugs in our prisons today is absolutely vast.
"Prison staff are doing everything they possibly can, despite the shortage of resources, to stem the flow.
"Unfortunately, we have got far more intricate systems now, fewer staff, and basic security measures are not being performed."
Mr Travis accused ministers of trying to tackle the problem by cutting costs, making prisons
"Society is completely out of control," he said.
"We need more prisons. We have more drug abuse and more violence on our streets, sentences are longer, and we need a society that feels safe and secure."
Opposition critics seized on Mr Travis's outburst as evidence of deep-rooted problems in the prison system.
Tory justice spokesman Nick Herbert said: "Prisons should be places of hard work and restoration, preparing offenders to go straight.
"Instead we have over-crowded jails where drugs are rife, prisoners are too often idle and there is little purposeful activity.
"It is time for a fundamental shake-up of our failing prisons system."
The Prison Service confirmed that drugs had been smuggled into Everthorpe Prison by an outside dealer, but said immediate action was taken and prisoners were never in a position to escape.
A spokesman insisted inmates are not given "breakfast in bed", but are handed a "breakfast pack" to eat in their cells, or a hot breakfast to take back to their cells.
Television in cells is an earned privilege which can be removed, she added, and "no public-sector prisons" have Sky TV in cells.
She confirmed that the Incentives and Earned Privileges scheme means well-behaved inmates can earn extra visits, higher rates of pay for work, in-cell television and access to private cash.
She said the IEP scheme was designed "to ensure good order and control in prisons" and to encourage prisoners to take part in rehabilitation work.
Read more: Drugs, prostitutes and satellite TV - no wonder inmates don't want to escape from Britain's 'cushy' prisons | Mail Online
Really, from the Daily Mail, and by the way i have visited over 12 prisons I know what I am talking about.
Drugs, prostitutes and satellite TV - no wonder inmates don't want to escape from Britain's 'cushy' prisons | Mail Online
Drugs, prostitutes and satellite TV - no wonder inmates don't want to escape from Britain's 'cushy' prisonsBy MATTHEW HICKLEY
Last updated at 16:52 25 April 2008
Inmates have such a good time they even pass up the chances of escape, according to Glyn Travis.
Savaging Labour's prisons policy, he told how inmates benefit from satellite television, free telephone calls, breakfast in bed and officers who treat them with kid gloves for fear of breaching their human rights.
Scroll down for more ...
Home comforts: Prisoners have access to Sky TV according to Prison Officers Association's Glyn Travis
Overstretched staff are powerless to stem the tide of illegal drugs, he said.
Mr Travis, assistant general secretary of the Prison Officers' Association, warned that every jail in the land was overcrowded and under-resourced, and that the entire system was "snowballing out of control".
"It tells me there's something wrong in society when people are breaking into prisons to bring in drugs and prostitutes but the prisoners are quite happy to stay inside," he added.
The devastating assessment from a senior union leader is a crushing blow for the Government, which is struggling to cope with the chronic overcrowding crisis in prisons.
Mr Travis said: "Drugs are coming into prisons at a rate that's so dramatic that drugs in prisons are actually cheaper than on the outside.
"There's a classic case in Yorkshire where members of the public were climbing over the prison walls to take drugs into the prison.
"They put up ladders to climb over the walls, but prisoners were so comfortable in the environment they were living in that none of them tried to climb up the ladders and escape."
Scroll down for more ...
Everthorpe jail in Yorkshire: A drug dealer got in with a ladder
Mr Travis was referring to Everthorpe Prison in East Yorkshire, where an investigation earlier this year found that a drug dealer was breaking in at night using a ladder, and passing drugs to inmates through their cell windows.
He also sold women's clothing to a transvestite prisoner.
Mr Travis told Talk Sport radio that taxpayers would be "appalled" if they knew of the conditions enjoyed by criminals, including Britain's most notorious rapists, murderers and paedophiles.
"Prisoners receive a wage for being in prison," he said.
Prison officers' leader Glyn Travis
"They receive a bed, a TV in all cells, Sky television in most areas for recreational use, free telephones, breakfast in bed on many occasions, cash bonuses for good behaviour, and prison staff are forced to deal with them in such a subservient way it's ridiculous.
"Prison is no longer a deterrent. It is merely an occupational hazard."
Jails are often close to anarchy, and staff morale is at rock-bottom due to under-funding.
"We are trying to manage a system that's just snowballing out of control.
"The drug problem within prisons is massive.
"What prison officers find is only the tip of the iceberg. The quantity of drugs in our prisons today is absolutely vast.
"Prison staff are doing everything they possibly can, despite the shortage of resources, to stem the flow.
"Unfortunately, we have got far more intricate systems now, fewer staff, and basic security measures are not being performed."
Mr Travis accused ministers of trying to tackle the problem by cutting costs, making prisons
"Society is completely out of control," he said.
"We need more prisons. We have more drug abuse and more violence on our streets, sentences are longer, and we need a society that feels safe and secure."
Opposition critics seized on Mr Travis's outburst as evidence of deep-rooted problems in the prison system.
Tory justice spokesman Nick Herbert said: "Prisons should be places of hard work and restoration, preparing offenders to go straight.
"Instead we have over-crowded jails where drugs are rife, prisoners are too often idle and there is little purposeful activity.
"It is time for a fundamental shake-up of our failing prisons system."
The Prison Service confirmed that drugs had been smuggled into Everthorpe Prison by an outside dealer, but said immediate action was taken and prisoners were never in a position to escape.
A spokesman insisted inmates are not given "breakfast in bed", but are handed a "breakfast pack" to eat in their cells, or a hot breakfast to take back to their cells.
Television in cells is an earned privilege which can be removed, she added, and "no public-sector prisons" have Sky TV in cells.
She confirmed that the Incentives and Earned Privileges scheme means well-behaved inmates can earn extra visits, higher rates of pay for work, in-cell television and access to private cash.
She said the IEP scheme was designed "to ensure good order and control in prisons" and to encourage prisoners to take part in rehabilitation work.
Read more: Drugs, prostitutes and satellite TV - no wonder inmates don't want to escape from Britain's 'cushy' prisons | Mail Online
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lou lou belle
- Posts: 235
- Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:33 am
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
edited for content
Have you been a police officer, NO
Have you been to over 12 prisons, NO
Have you spoken to offenders that have given information about drugs being taken into prison, NO
Have you actually seen the cells that lifers live in NO
Have you ever had any dealings with ex prison officers that have said that inmates can get anything from inside NO
I have so I really do know what I am talking about. Its not just from a newspaper. Its from real life experiences.
edited for content .
Have you been a police officer, NO
Have you been to over 12 prisons, NO
Have you spoken to offenders that have given information about drugs being taken into prison, NO
Have you actually seen the cells that lifers live in NO
Have you ever had any dealings with ex prison officers that have said that inmates can get anything from inside NO
I have so I really do know what I am talking about. Its not just from a newspaper. Its from real life experiences.
edited for content .
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
lou lou belle;1243840 wrote: Yet again Oscar you try and descredit me, I do know what I am talking about.
Have you been a police officer, NO
Have you been to over 12 prisons, NO
Have you spoken to offenders that have given information about drugs being taken into prison, NO
Have you actually seen the cells that lifers live in NO
Have you ever had any dealings with ex prison officers that have said that inmates can get anything from inside NO
I have so I really do know what I am talking about. Its not just from a newspaper. Its from real life experiences.
edited for content at members request
edited for content at members request
I am not 25 yrs old and inexperienced in life... I have a long career behind me and I am embarking on a new career now. I have many many proffessional people in my family including police officers, a senior detective, a Barrister, and prison wardens and immediate family serving in Iraq and Afghan to name a few.
I helped set up the first womens refuge many years in ago in Brighton and I currently belong to a voluntary scheme where I visit young offenders in prison who have no family as so many attempt suicide. So, yes, I have been in many prisons.
You may have been a police officer and done some fine work but it does not make you an expert on every aspect of the law and life it'self.
I will grant you that all prisons make mistakes but you are portrying an image that simply is not true.
For example.. this is the proceedure for just one prison I visiit regually.
Arrive 30 minutes before visit time.
Sign in at desk. Stand infront of camera and be checked infront of the photograph first taken of you on your first visit.
Put fore-finger on infa-red pad for computer to match your finger print.
Put other fore-finger on infa-red pad to check finger print with prints taken on first vsit.
Hand over three sets of ID despite wardens having seen them before.
Sign your signature twice.
Take locker and leave all possessions including car keys and money except £10 to buy tea in visiting suite.
Enter next building.... Place both fore-fingers on infa-red pad again before automatic doors open.
Once open, remove shoes, belts and earrings etc and place on tray for warden to search.
Walk through metal detection area.
Pat down by another warden including pockets searched. Turn feet upward for warden to see soles of your feet.
Torch shone into mouth. Warden hands back your shoes.
Exit building and stand on marked spot for sniffer dog.
Once past the sniffer dog, enter another building.
Another pat down by warder on door.
Join Inmate at designated table.
6 wardens sit at front of visiting suite with camera's. Camera's on each table.
If you have kissed or hugged the inmate... go through the whole same proceedure when leaving from your visit Including fingerprints to get out again.
If you must leave visiting suite to go to the toilet during the visiit, go through the whole proceedure again leaving the suite and re-entering.
One inamte I visit regually, i take his baby with me. the baby's nappy and pockets are searched also.
In all prisons I have been in... no tv except one hour an evening.
No pc's.
No music centres.
No walkmans.
No clothes of their own.
Visits from family are earned on point scoring system. phone cards are earnt through work and calls are limited. Writing paper etc has to be earnt.
In cases where an inmate is serving a long period of time in prison, privaliges come after some considerable time and after they have earnt them. They are not handed out willy nilly upon walking through the gates as you seem to imply.
Have you been a police officer, NO
Have you been to over 12 prisons, NO
Have you spoken to offenders that have given information about drugs being taken into prison, NO
Have you actually seen the cells that lifers live in NO
Have you ever had any dealings with ex prison officers that have said that inmates can get anything from inside NO
I have so I really do know what I am talking about. Its not just from a newspaper. Its from real life experiences.
edited for content at members request
edited for content at members request
I am not 25 yrs old and inexperienced in life... I have a long career behind me and I am embarking on a new career now. I have many many proffessional people in my family including police officers, a senior detective, a Barrister, and prison wardens and immediate family serving in Iraq and Afghan to name a few.
I helped set up the first womens refuge many years in ago in Brighton and I currently belong to a voluntary scheme where I visit young offenders in prison who have no family as so many attempt suicide. So, yes, I have been in many prisons.
You may have been a police officer and done some fine work but it does not make you an expert on every aspect of the law and life it'self.
I will grant you that all prisons make mistakes but you are portrying an image that simply is not true.
For example.. this is the proceedure for just one prison I visiit regually.
Arrive 30 minutes before visit time.
Sign in at desk. Stand infront of camera and be checked infront of the photograph first taken of you on your first visit.
Put fore-finger on infa-red pad for computer to match your finger print.
Put other fore-finger on infa-red pad to check finger print with prints taken on first vsit.
Hand over three sets of ID despite wardens having seen them before.
Sign your signature twice.
Take locker and leave all possessions including car keys and money except £10 to buy tea in visiting suite.
Enter next building.... Place both fore-fingers on infa-red pad again before automatic doors open.
Once open, remove shoes, belts and earrings etc and place on tray for warden to search.
Walk through metal detection area.
Pat down by another warden including pockets searched. Turn feet upward for warden to see soles of your feet.
Torch shone into mouth. Warden hands back your shoes.
Exit building and stand on marked spot for sniffer dog.
Once past the sniffer dog, enter another building.
Another pat down by warder on door.
Join Inmate at designated table.
6 wardens sit at front of visiting suite with camera's. Camera's on each table.
If you have kissed or hugged the inmate... go through the whole same proceedure when leaving from your visit Including fingerprints to get out again.
If you must leave visiting suite to go to the toilet during the visiit, go through the whole proceedure again leaving the suite and re-entering.
One inamte I visit regually, i take his baby with me. the baby's nappy and pockets are searched also.
In all prisons I have been in... no tv except one hour an evening.
No pc's.
No music centres.
No walkmans.
No clothes of their own.
Visits from family are earned on point scoring system. phone cards are earnt through work and calls are limited. Writing paper etc has to be earnt.
In cases where an inmate is serving a long period of time in prison, privaliges come after some considerable time and after they have earnt them. They are not handed out willy nilly upon walking through the gates as you seem to imply.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
lou lou belle
- Posts: 235
- Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:33 am
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
Like I said previously this is not the case in prison.
There are drugs being taken in regularly.
I am not going to justify this anymore
edited for content
If I say things I have mentioned do occur in prison, edited for content I have experienced this in real life and been informed by people involved in this life that this is happening.
There are drugs being taken in regularly.
I am not going to justify this anymore
edited for content
If I say things I have mentioned do occur in prison, edited for content I have experienced this in real life and been informed by people involved in this life that this is happening.
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
I would not rule out the death penalty entirely. Someone who has committed murder after serving a sentence for murder should be put to death. I see no reason why society should pay for their upkeep in an already overcrowded prison system which is likely to release them at some stage enabling them to commit yet another murder.
The argument of doubt is reduced when the suspect is involved with another murder.
Psychology is not an exact science. Treatment can be resisted in a deceptive manner.
The argument of doubt is reduced when the suspect is involved with another murder.
Psychology is not an exact science. Treatment can be resisted in a deceptive manner.
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
OpenMind;1243977 wrote: I would not rule out the death penalty entirely. Someone who has committed murder after serving a sentence for murder should be put to death. I see no reason why society should pay for their upkeep in an already overcrowded prison system which is likely to release them at some stage enabling them to commit yet another murder.
The argument of doubt is reduced when the suspect is involved with another murder.
Psychology is not an exact science. Treatment can be resisted in a deceptive manner.
OM..I go along with you all the way on this. It frighens the **** out of me thinking that my new neighbor, might be an released murderer. Could happen to any of us. Paying for them with a life sentance is just rediculous. What's the point? A free ride is hardly any sort of punishment. Sure, no family around and can't come and go as they please but free everything else. I think the laws in some states, need to be reviewed and revised. I, as a tax payer, am getting tired of paying their way.
The argument of doubt is reduced when the suspect is involved with another murder.
Psychology is not an exact science. Treatment can be resisted in a deceptive manner.
OM..I go along with you all the way on this. It frighens the **** out of me thinking that my new neighbor, might be an released murderer. Could happen to any of us. Paying for them with a life sentance is just rediculous. What's the point? A free ride is hardly any sort of punishment. Sure, no family around and can't come and go as they please but free everything else. I think the laws in some states, need to be reviewed and revised. I, as a tax payer, am getting tired of paying their way.
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
Sunshine;1243982 wrote: OM..I go along with you all the way on this. It frighens the **** out of me thinking that my new neighbor, might be an released murderer. Could happen to any of us. Paying for them with a life sentance is just rediculous. What's the point? A free ride is hardly any sort of punishment. Sure, no family around and can't come and go as they please but free everything else. I think the laws in some states, need to be reviewed and revised. I, as a tax payer, am getting tired of paying their way.
Thank you. This is a controversial subject, for good reason, but we have to be both sensible and economical. We should put the good of the society before that of an individual.
Thank you. This is a controversial subject, for good reason, but we have to be both sensible and economical. We should put the good of the society before that of an individual.
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
OpenMind;1243977 wrote: I would not rule out the death penalty entirely. Someone who has committed murder after serving a sentence for murder should be put to death. I see no reason why society should pay for their upkeep in an already overcrowded prison system which is likely to release them at some stage enabling them to commit yet another murder.
The argument of doubt is reduced when the suspect is involved with another murder.
Psychology is not an exact science. Treatment can be resisted in a deceptive manner.
i vote the same for pedophiles
The argument of doubt is reduced when the suspect is involved with another murder.
Psychology is not an exact science. Treatment can be resisted in a deceptive manner.
i vote the same for pedophiles
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
flopstock;1244037 wrote: i vote the same for pedophiles
I absolutely loathe paedophiles and all those that prey on children for any reason. I would not be able to give them a fair trial.
I absolutely loathe paedophiles and all those that prey on children for any reason. I would not be able to give them a fair trial.
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
This is B*ll**t, my friend has dealt with offenders that have said to her that they still have dark thoughts about harming others. Great eh? She see's them walking out and about in public, just heavily medicated. This cannot be right?
There's a Broadmoor releasee living about 100 metres from me. He's ancient and decrepit and on heavy medication. He's known locally and generally pitied. Can't think of a better object lesson for local kids about why prison is a bad place to be.
There's a Broadmoor releasee living about 100 metres from me. He's ancient and decrepit and on heavy medication. He's known locally and generally pitied. Can't think of a better object lesson for local kids about why prison is a bad place to be.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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lou lou belle
- Posts: 235
- Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:33 am
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
At least he is not in a position to be harmful.
I agree it would be an definate incentive to stop kids going into prison, but I somehow think that it could land of deaf ears with some kids. Doing time is actually quite cool for these lot. In the local juvenille prison by me, the kids adorn rosary beads that have different colours to represent the crime that they are in for. There is no hope for them, unfortunately.
I agree it would be an definate incentive to stop kids going into prison, but I somehow think that it could land of deaf ears with some kids. Doing time is actually quite cool for these lot. In the local juvenille prison by me, the kids adorn rosary beads that have different colours to represent the crime that they are in for. There is no hope for them, unfortunately.
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Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Should the UK bring back the death penalty
but I somehow think that it could land of deaf ears with some kids. Doing time is actually quite cool for these lot. In the local juvenille prison by me, the kids adorn rosary beads that have different colours to represent the crime that they are in for
I'm sure with some it would. But it might keep a few from doing something stupid.
I taught EBD kids for a while. Some of the stories behind them were truly pitiable. For a few, prison is probably no worse than home.
I'm sure with some it would. But it might keep a few from doing something stupid.
I taught EBD kids for a while. Some of the stories behind them were truly pitiable. For a few, prison is probably no worse than home.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."