my countries entire image was changed a number of years ago when this was changed. And a certain race or religion won the right to change this uniform.
Sorry this makes me incredibly sad. What next female mounties in Burkas. You bet it gets my ire up.
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�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
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― Mae West
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minks;1252032 wrote: my countries entire image was changed a number of years ago when this was changed. And a certain race or religion won the right to change this uniform.
Sorry this makes me incredibly sad. What next female mounties in Burkas. You bet it gets my ire up.
We do tend to make an exception for the Sikhs - mostly on the grounds of practicality as their hair just would not fit within a normal hat or helmet.
Sorry this makes me incredibly sad. What next female mounties in Burkas. You bet it gets my ire up.
We do tend to make an exception for the Sikhs - mostly on the grounds of practicality as their hair just would not fit within a normal hat or helmet.
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Bryn Mawr;1252055 wrote: We do tend to make an exception for the Sikhs - mostly on the grounds of practicality as their hair just would not fit within a normal hat or helmet.
So where is the English mans exception when he wants to grow his hair long?
So where is the English mans exception when he wants to grow his hair long?
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oscar;1252057 wrote: So where is the English mans exception when he wants to grow his hair long?
That is choice, not religious obligation.
If he chooses to grow hair so long that it will not fit under any practical helmet then he has accepted that, as a consequence, he cannot ride a motorcycle.
My take would be that the law is utterly wrong in the first place and that a responsible adult should have the choice not to wear a helmet. If necessary accepting that by doing so he forfeits the right to free medical care if he suffers a head injury as a result.
That is choice, not religious obligation.
If he chooses to grow hair so long that it will not fit under any practical helmet then he has accepted that, as a consequence, he cannot ride a motorcycle.
My take would be that the law is utterly wrong in the first place and that a responsible adult should have the choice not to wear a helmet. If necessary accepting that by doing so he forfeits the right to free medical care if he suffers a head injury as a result.
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minks: Is the issue that Sikhs should be allowed to be Mounties?
Important issue; serious question.
Hiding nothing: Really believe Sikhs would make good Mounties.
Important issue; serious question.
Hiding nothing: Really believe Sikhs would make good Mounties.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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Bryn Mawr;1252070 wrote: That is choice, not religious obligation.
.
Then If we come down to religion allowing exceptions to the law... Why was the Air Line employee threatened with dismissal if she did not remove a small Christian cross on a chain around her neck?
.
Then If we come down to religion allowing exceptions to the law... Why was the Air Line employee threatened with dismissal if she did not remove a small Christian cross on a chain around her neck?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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oscar;1252057 wrote: So where is the English mans exception when he wants to grow his hair long?
oh dont you worry Canada has that covered, we have Mounties who are First Nations and they are allowed to wear their long braids and I don't know for sure if those braids are religious representation. Yes iff topic i know as they are not foriegn to this country however they made the decisioin to contest the regulations after the foriegn folks contested the system.
oh dont you worry Canada has that covered, we have Mounties who are First Nations and they are allowed to wear their long braids and I don't know for sure if those braids are religious representation. Yes iff topic i know as they are not foriegn to this country however they made the decisioin to contest the regulations after the foriegn folks contested the system.
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Clodhopper;1252071 wrote: minks: Is the issue that Sikhs should be allowed to be Mounties?
Important issue; serious question.
Hiding nothing: Really believe Sikhs would make good Mounties.
no anyone can be a mountie in my opinion but i am most bothered by the sikhs and the fact they want to come here and change so much that is Canadian. From the uniforms of our mounties to our laws, yes we have had laws changed because of people who wears turbans, as well as the women who wear the head coverings (they young girls were originally told they could not play sports with their head coverings as people were worried about contact style sports of sorts like soccer and their head coverings posing a choking hazard, too bad they faught and won. Kurpans, their religious knives, they were originally not allowed in schools well they are deemed religious items they faught it they won, they carry these items into schools. It is so darn frustrating. I am also saddened that in my country my kids can not wear halloween costumes to school as they offend some religious people whoa wait we have done this for decades, guess what we lost they won. And what about Merry Christmas, why must I watch who I wish that too, it is my tradition it does not harm anyone it is a kind greeting and is not always interpreted as religious and I have to use it with caution pffft it is going way to far.
Important issue; serious question.
Hiding nothing: Really believe Sikhs would make good Mounties.
no anyone can be a mountie in my opinion but i am most bothered by the sikhs and the fact they want to come here and change so much that is Canadian. From the uniforms of our mounties to our laws, yes we have had laws changed because of people who wears turbans, as well as the women who wear the head coverings (they young girls were originally told they could not play sports with their head coverings as people were worried about contact style sports of sorts like soccer and their head coverings posing a choking hazard, too bad they faught and won. Kurpans, their religious knives, they were originally not allowed in schools well they are deemed religious items they faught it they won, they carry these items into schools. It is so darn frustrating. I am also saddened that in my country my kids can not wear halloween costumes to school as they offend some religious people whoa wait we have done this for decades, guess what we lost they won. And what about Merry Christmas, why must I watch who I wish that too, it is my tradition it does not harm anyone it is a kind greeting and is not always interpreted as religious and I have to use it with caution pffft it is going way to far.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
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oscar;1252084 wrote: Then If we come down to religion allowing exceptions to the law... Why was the Air Line employee threatened with dismissal if she did not remove a small Christian cross on a chain around her neck?
Small minded thinking of a single company official - not government policy
Small minded thinking of a single company official - not government policy
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oscar;1251697 wrote: an anonymous poll.
Please vote above.
Us and british votes please.
US and British... sheeeesh.... Allright, I'm outta here. Stupid thread, anyway... flounce flounce flounce... SLAM
Please vote above.
Us and british votes please.
US and British... sheeeesh.... Allright, I'm outta here. Stupid thread, anyway... flounce flounce flounce... SLAM
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
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AussiePam;1252138 wrote: US and British... sheeeesh.... Allright, I'm outta here. Stupid thread, anyway... flounce flounce flounce... SLAM
:yh_rotfl
Wonderful - and very appropriate given the issues.
:yh_rotfl
Wonderful - and very appropriate given the issues.
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Bryn Mawr;1252134 wrote: Small minded thinking of a single company official - not government policy
Then I find it all the more hypocritical. A Sikh would argue his human rights in court. Exactly as that woman should have done.
Then I find it all the more hypocritical. A Sikh would argue his human rights in court. Exactly as that woman should have done.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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oscar;1252194 wrote: Then I find it all the more hypocritical. A Sikh would argue his human rights in court. Exactly as that woman should have done.
Please explain.
The Sikhs took the government to court as a group and won their case.
The woman took her employers to an industrial tribunal as an individual and, although she lost her case of religious discrimination, forced BA to change their dress code and still works there, still wearing the cross.
Where is the hypocrisy?
Please explain.
The Sikhs took the government to court as a group and won their case.
The woman took her employers to an industrial tribunal as an individual and, although she lost her case of religious discrimination, forced BA to change their dress code and still works there, still wearing the cross.
Where is the hypocrisy?
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Bryn Mawr;1252242 wrote: Please explain.
The Sikhs took the government to court as a group and won their case.
The woman took her employers to an industrial tribunal as an individual and, although she lost her case of religious discrimination, forced BA to change their dress code and still works there, still wearing the cross.
Where is the hypocrisy? She forced BA to change their dress code but lost her case of religious discrimination. The Sikhs did not lose their case.
The Sikhs took the government to court as a group and won their case.
The woman took her employers to an industrial tribunal as an individual and, although she lost her case of religious discrimination, forced BA to change their dress code and still works there, still wearing the cross.
Where is the hypocrisy? She forced BA to change their dress code but lost her case of religious discrimination. The Sikhs did not lose their case.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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oscar;1252244 wrote: She forced BA to change their dress code but lost her case of religious discrimination. The Sikhs did not lose their case.
And?
And?
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Bryn Mawr;1252249 wrote: And?
And.... why did she lose and the Sikhs win?
And.... why did she lose and the Sikhs win?
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Because you don't HAVE to wear a crucifix to be a christian, but a turban is a part of their faith ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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oscar;1252250 wrote: And.... why did she lose and the Sikhs win?
Because she took a very limited question to an Industrial Tribunal whilst they took a question of principal to a Court of Law.
All that the Industrial Tribunal ruled on was whether BA had applied their dress code equally to all and to the letter of the code as written - not whether the code was right or wrong.
Because she took a very limited question to an Industrial Tribunal whilst they took a question of principal to a Court of Law.
All that the Industrial Tribunal ruled on was whether BA had applied their dress code equally to all and to the letter of the code as written - not whether the code was right or wrong.
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Clodhopper;1252071 wrote: minks: Is the issue that Sikhs should be allowed to be Mounties?
Important issue; serious question.
Hiding nothing: Really believe Sikhs would make good Mounties.
And you think the BNP are dangerous?
Daily Express | UK News :: Now Muslims demand full Sharia law
Good God...
Important issue; serious question.
Hiding nothing: Really believe Sikhs would make good Mounties.
And you think the BNP are dangerous?
Daily Express | UK News :: Now Muslims demand full Sharia law
Good God...
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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oscar;1252255 wrote: And you think the BNP are dangerous?
Daily Express | UK News :: Now Muslims demand full Sharia law
Good God...
Be interesting to see how many nutters come out of the woodpile on the 31st then won't it?
I think this paragraph from the article says it all :-
A spokesman for the Islamic Society of Britain said: “99.999 per cent of Muslims despise these people. This only serves to fuel racial *tensions.”
Daily Express | UK News :: Now Muslims demand full Sharia law
Good God...
Be interesting to see how many nutters come out of the woodpile on the 31st then won't it?
I think this paragraph from the article says it all :-
A spokesman for the Islamic Society of Britain said: “99.999 per cent of Muslims despise these people. This only serves to fuel racial *tensions.”
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Bryn Mawr;1252256 wrote: Be interesting to see how many nutters come out of the woodpile on the 31st then won't it?
I think this paragraph from the article says it all :-
Yes, I must admit, the paper probably smudged the figures on estimated turnout. I will watch this and see the actual attendence figure. I am certain the BNP will not attend but I do hope the EDL stay away or I can see innocent folks getting hurt.
I think this paragraph from the article says it all :-
Yes, I must admit, the paper probably smudged the figures on estimated turnout. I will watch this and see the actual attendence figure. I am certain the BNP will not attend but I do hope the EDL stay away or I can see innocent folks getting hurt.
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A spokesman for the Islamic Society of Britain said: “99.999 per cent of Muslims despise these people. This only serves to fuel racial *tensions.”
Same article
Sorry too slow (Great minds etc.)
Same article
Sorry too slow (Great minds etc.)
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Bruv;1252260 wrote: Same article
Sorry too slow (Great minds etc.) There is a lot of truth in that sentence though. I know my Muslim friends are embarressed by the Fanatics.
Sorry too slow (Great minds etc.) There is a lot of truth in that sentence though. I know my Muslim friends are embarressed by the Fanatics.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Bruv;1252260 wrote: Same article
Sorry too slow (Great minds etc.)
Whilst it's easy to stir up trouble it is a totally different prospect to make it a realistic possibility rather than a bogeyman scare story.
Has anyone ever heard of Islam4UK - outside of the media that is
One would almost think that, if this bunch of morons didn't exist, with the Express' political agenda they'd be forced to invent them.
Sorry too slow (Great minds etc.)
Whilst it's easy to stir up trouble it is a totally different prospect to make it a realistic possibility rather than a bogeyman scare story.
Has anyone ever heard of Islam4UK - outside of the media that is
One would almost think that, if this bunch of morons didn't exist, with the Express' political agenda they'd be forced to invent them.
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Bryn Mawr;1252274 wrote: Whilst it's easy to stir up trouble it is a totally different prospect to make it a realistic possibility rather than a bogeyman scare story.
Has anyone ever heard of Islam4UK - outside of the media that is
One would almost think that, if this bunch of morons didn't exist, with the Express' political agenda they'd be forced to invent them. Exactly the same could be said of the BNP. How high profile would they be, should they have had no media coverage?
Has anyone ever heard of Islam4UK - outside of the media that is
One would almost think that, if this bunch of morons didn't exist, with the Express' political agenda they'd be forced to invent them. Exactly the same could be said of the BNP. How high profile would they be, should they have had no media coverage?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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oscar;1252283 wrote: Exactly the same could be said of the BNP. How high profile would they be, should they have had no media coverage?
But you keep making posts suggesting that Shaiah Law is a real danger and, unless we act now, just around the corner - WHY? it is not a realistic prospect so why?
But you keep making posts suggesting that Shaiah Law is a real danger and, unless we act now, just around the corner - WHY? it is not a realistic prospect so why?
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Bryn Mawr;1252274 wrote:
One would almost think that, if this bunch of morons didn't exist, with the Express' political agenda they'd be forced to invent them.
Funny you should say that.
I posted a piece of Nazi propaganda changing the references from Jews to Muslims on another forum.
Took a while for anyone to twig it.
I think we are being softened up by somebody with an agenda, not sure which side and to which end.
One would almost think that, if this bunch of morons didn't exist, with the Express' political agenda they'd be forced to invent them.
Funny you should say that.
I posted a piece of Nazi propaganda changing the references from Jews to Muslims on another forum.
Took a while for anyone to twig it.
I think we are being softened up by somebody with an agenda, not sure which side and to which end.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Bruv;1252290 wrote: Funny you should say that.
I posted a piece of Nazi propaganda changing the references from Jews to Muslims on another forum.
Took a while for anyone to twig it.
I think we are being softened up by somebody with an agenda, not sure which side and to which end.
The media have been systematically and deliberately demonising Muslims since we went into Iraq. It's not pretty and I do not like being manipulated by anyone - least of all the press.
I posted a piece of Nazi propaganda changing the references from Jews to Muslims on another forum.
Took a while for anyone to twig it.
I think we are being softened up by somebody with an agenda, not sure which side and to which end.
The media have been systematically and deliberately demonising Muslims since we went into Iraq. It's not pretty and I do not like being manipulated by anyone - least of all the press.
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Long before Iraq.
I get the impression that we are all (meaning muslims and christians and any non muslims) are being primed, prepared for the inevitable combustion.
I get the impression that we are all (meaning muslims and christians and any non muslims) are being primed, prepared for the inevitable combustion.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Bruv;1252319 wrote: Long before Iraq.
I get the impression that we are all (meaning muslims and christians and any non muslims) are being primed, prepared for the inevitable combustion.
The combustion is only inevitable if we allow ourselves to be manipulated.
I get the impression that we are all (meaning muslims and christians and any non muslims) are being primed, prepared for the inevitable combustion.
The combustion is only inevitable if we allow ourselves to be manipulated.
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Bryn Mawr;1252287 wrote: But you keep making posts suggesting that Shaiah Law is a real danger and, unless we act now, just around the corner - WHY? it is not a realistic prospect so why?
It is not Sharia law that I find 'Dangerous', it is the fanatics that take to the street to demand It.
It is not Sharia law that I find 'Dangerous', it is the fanatics that take to the street to demand It.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Bryn Mawr;1252332 wrote: The combustion is only inevitable if we allow ourselves to be manipulated.
It is not a question of 'allowing ourselves', it is a long campaign that is wearing us all down, with the use of smoke and mirrors until nobody knows who the good guys are.
It is not a question of 'allowing ourselves', it is a long campaign that is wearing us all down, with the use of smoke and mirrors until nobody knows who the good guys are.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Bruv;1252460 wrote: It is not a question of 'allowing ourselves', it is a long campaign that is wearing us all down, with the use of smoke and mirrors until nobody knows who the good guys are.
Always, always, ask yourself "why is this being published", "what does that author get out of it" and, most importantly, cross reference multiple sources from every involved party.
Always, always, ask yourself "why is this being published", "what does that author get out of it" and, most importantly, cross reference multiple sources from every involved party.
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Bruv;1252290 wrote: Funny you should say that.
I posted a piece of Nazi propaganda changing the references from Jews to Muslims on another forum.
Took a while for anyone to twig it.
I think we are being softened up by somebody with an agenda, not sure which side and to which end.
Possibly. This is what caught my attention in that article:
"At the base of the column the friezes would be replaced with Islamic decoration and giant urns would be filled with gold coins for the poor."
Islamic decoration is pretty, and who couldnt go for a pot o' gold?:sneaky:
The point being, why does not liking somebody, no matter the reason for it, always end up with someone being called rascist or bigot?
I dont particularly like being told who I should like or not. I dont like chavvi mothers who pump out kids like it's a business, and I dont like having a million different languages screamed over phones on the tube either. Just gives me a headache. Doesnt mean I'm rascist. :-2
I posted a piece of Nazi propaganda changing the references from Jews to Muslims on another forum.
Took a while for anyone to twig it.
I think we are being softened up by somebody with an agenda, not sure which side and to which end.
Possibly. This is what caught my attention in that article:
"At the base of the column the friezes would be replaced with Islamic decoration and giant urns would be filled with gold coins for the poor."
Islamic decoration is pretty, and who couldnt go for a pot o' gold?:sneaky:
The point being, why does not liking somebody, no matter the reason for it, always end up with someone being called rascist or bigot?
I dont particularly like being told who I should like or not. I dont like chavvi mothers who pump out kids like it's a business, and I dont like having a million different languages screamed over phones on the tube either. Just gives me a headache. Doesnt mean I'm rascist. :-2
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
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Raven;1252717 wrote:
Doesnt mean I'm rascist. :-2
It doesn't necessarily mean you are a racist.
But that is the smoke and mirrors I am talking about.
Real racists are using the situation, and then denying they are racist.
It all gets very cloudy and unclear who is who.
Doesnt mean I'm rascist. :-2
It doesn't necessarily mean you are a racist.
But that is the smoke and mirrors I am talking about.
Real racists are using the situation, and then denying they are racist.
It all gets very cloudy and unclear who is who.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Bruv;1252731 wrote: It doesn't necessarily mean you are a racist.
But that is the smoke and mirrors I am talking about.
Real racists are using the situation, and then denying they are racist.
It all gets very cloudy and unclear who is who.
LOL! I wasnt misspelling really. It was my cross between racist and fascist. And I am neither. Just a bunch of different languages being screamed into phones all around me, really gives me a headache.
But my point is...what happened to a persons right to be what they like? Everyone has a voice, and an opinion. What happened to their right to speak? I dont have to agree. And I wont if I dont want to!
But that is the smoke and mirrors I am talking about.
Real racists are using the situation, and then denying they are racist.
It all gets very cloudy and unclear who is who.
LOL! I wasnt misspelling really. It was my cross between racist and fascist. And I am neither. Just a bunch of different languages being screamed into phones all around me, really gives me a headache.
But my point is...what happened to a persons right to be what they like? Everyone has a voice, and an opinion. What happened to their right to speak? I dont have to agree. And I wont if I dont want to!
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
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Raven;1252733 wrote: LOL! I wasnt misspelling really. It was my cross between racist and fascist. And I am neither. Just a bunch of different languages being screamed into phones all around me, really gives me a headache.
But my point is...what happened to a persons right to be what they like? Everyone has a voice, and an opinion. What happened to their right to speak? I dont have to agree. And I wont if I dont want to!
Any one who believes that some-one doesn't have the right to speak based on their opinion, is generally the fascist, not the person they are accusing of fascism.
But my point is...what happened to a persons right to be what they like? Everyone has a voice, and an opinion. What happened to their right to speak? I dont have to agree. And I wont if I dont want to!
Any one who believes that some-one doesn't have the right to speak based on their opinion, is generally the fascist, not the person they are accusing of fascism.
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Any one who believes that some-one doesn't have the right to speak based on their opinion, is generally the fascist
Possibly. Worth noting that fascists, when in power, deny everyone else the right to express their opinion freely on pain of death. This has been true of every fascist state that has existed.
not the person they are accusing of fascism.
Not necessarily. They may or may not be fascist.
Interesting though. Does a paedophile have a right to express his or her opinion on the subject freely? Should we allow paedophile websites?
What about anti-Semitism? Griffin is definitely an anti Semite.
Possibly. Worth noting that fascists, when in power, deny everyone else the right to express their opinion freely on pain of death. This has been true of every fascist state that has existed.
not the person they are accusing of fascism.
Not necessarily. They may or may not be fascist.
Interesting though. Does a paedophile have a right to express his or her opinion on the subject freely? Should we allow paedophile websites?
What about anti-Semitism? Griffin is definitely an anti Semite.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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Clodhopper;1252954 wrote: Possibly. Worth noting that fascists, when in power, deny everyone else the right to express their opinion freely on pain of death. This has been true of every fascist state that has existed.
Not necessarily. They may or may not be fascist.
Interesting though. Does a paedophile have a right to express his or her opinion on the subject freely? Should we allow paedophile websites?
What about anti-Semitism? Griffin is definitely an anti Semite.
A paedo web site is another matter. They go from expressing opinion to committing crime. They publish naughty photo's of doing horrible things to babies. Thats not opinion, thats crime. I'm talking about an explicit freedom of speech that is SUPPOSED to ours in a democratic society.
Yes the majority rules, but the minority voices are allowed to be heard, distasteful as they may be to others. This is a precious freedom, hanging on a gossamer thread if people continue to stifle and bully the 'dangerous idealists' into silence. May that day never come.
Not necessarily. They may or may not be fascist.
Interesting though. Does a paedophile have a right to express his or her opinion on the subject freely? Should we allow paedophile websites?
What about anti-Semitism? Griffin is definitely an anti Semite.
A paedo web site is another matter. They go from expressing opinion to committing crime. They publish naughty photo's of doing horrible things to babies. Thats not opinion, thats crime. I'm talking about an explicit freedom of speech that is SUPPOSED to ours in a democratic society.
Yes the majority rules, but the minority voices are allowed to be heard, distasteful as they may be to others. This is a precious freedom, hanging on a gossamer thread if people continue to stifle and bully the 'dangerous idealists' into silence. May that day never come.
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
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A paedo web site is another matter. They go from expressing opinion to committing crime. They publish naughty photo's of doing horrible things to babies. Thats not opinion, thats crime. I'm talking about an explicit freedom of speech that is SUPPOSED to ours in a democratic society.
I probably agree with you, but it's an interesting question. The BNP produce racist material and favour racist policies - which are also crimes. So in terms of legality, what's the difference?
Do we say, "Freedom of speech is freedom of speech and ALL opinions have a legal right to be expressed"?
Or do we say, "Some opinions are too foul and may not be expressed"?
Hmm. I have a suspicion that social pressure has a place here.
Please forgive me - I'm thinking this through as I go...
I probably agree with you, but it's an interesting question. The BNP produce racist material and favour racist policies - which are also crimes. So in terms of legality, what's the difference?
Do we say, "Freedom of speech is freedom of speech and ALL opinions have a legal right to be expressed"?
Or do we say, "Some opinions are too foul and may not be expressed"?
Hmm. I have a suspicion that social pressure has a place here.
Please forgive me - I'm thinking this through as I go...
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
FG poll.. Does mass Immigration concern you?
Clodhopper;1252987 wrote: I probably agree with you, but it's an interesting question. The BNP produce racist material and favour racist policies - which are also crimes. So in terms of legality, what's the difference?
Do we say, "Freedom of speech is freedom of speech and ALL opinions have a legal right to be expressed"?
Or do we say, "Some opinions are too foul and may not be expressed"?
Hmm. I have a suspicion that social pressure has a place here.
Please forgive me - I'm thinking this through as I go...
Yes but so do the extremists of ANY ideology! Say for instance the fundamentalist islamic/christian/jewish/etc. organisations! The line between freedom of expression and crime is drawn when someone becomes hurt/threatened/abused/etc..for example burning a cross in a person of colours front yard. Thats not opinion. Thats intimidation and threat. It is no longer opinion when you try to bully others into agreeing with you. But being allowed to speak ones mind is vital to a democracy. We are NOT Russia! Nor China! We dont plow each other down with tanks because we are not allowed to disagree with our governments!
Do we say, "Freedom of speech is freedom of speech and ALL opinions have a legal right to be expressed"?
Or do we say, "Some opinions are too foul and may not be expressed"?
Hmm. I have a suspicion that social pressure has a place here.
Please forgive me - I'm thinking this through as I go...
Yes but so do the extremists of ANY ideology! Say for instance the fundamentalist islamic/christian/jewish/etc. organisations! The line between freedom of expression and crime is drawn when someone becomes hurt/threatened/abused/etc..for example burning a cross in a person of colours front yard. Thats not opinion. Thats intimidation and threat. It is no longer opinion when you try to bully others into agreeing with you. But being allowed to speak ones mind is vital to a democracy. We are NOT Russia! Nor China! We dont plow each other down with tanks because we are not allowed to disagree with our governments!
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
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Clodhopper
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Yes but so do the extremists of ANY ideology! Say for instance the fundamentalist islamic/christian/jewish/etc. organisations! The line between freedom of expression and crime is drawn when someone becomes hurt/threatened/abused/etc..for example burning a cross in a person of colours front yard. Thats not opinion. Thats intimidation and threat. It is no longer opinion when you try to bully others into agreeing with you. But being allowed to speak ones mind is vital to a democracy. We are NOT Russia! Nor China! We dont plow each other down with tanks because we are not allowed to disagree with our governments!
Again, I think I agree with this. Think you are very right to say there is a difference between expressing an opinion and acting on it. But following what you say, that would mean a paedo has a right to express their opinions on paedophilia as long as they don't act on them...?
Social pressure: Paedos have a right to express their opinion, but must expect social isolation as a result? Is that the answer?
Again, I think I agree with this. Think you are very right to say there is a difference between expressing an opinion and acting on it. But following what you say, that would mean a paedo has a right to express their opinions on paedophilia as long as they don't act on them...?
Social pressure: Paedos have a right to express their opinion, but must expect social isolation as a result? Is that the answer?
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
FG poll.. Does mass Immigration concern you?
Clodhopper;1252997 wrote: Again, I think I agree with this. Think you are very right to say there is a difference between expressing an opinion and acting on it. But following what you say, that would mean a paedo has a right to express their opinions on paedophilia as long as they don't act on them...?
Social pressure: Paedos have a right to express their opinion, but must expect social isolation as a result? Is that the answer?
But how do you know if a person is a paedo? I like children. I love my children. Does that make me a paedo? No. That makes me a yummy mummy. If they say they like to do naughty things to children, it implies a crime has already occured. Paedophilia is a mental illness. Just like necrophilia and all the other philias that I cant spell. There is a difference between mental illness and independent opinion.
Social pressure: Paedos have a right to express their opinion, but must expect social isolation as a result? Is that the answer?
But how do you know if a person is a paedo? I like children. I love my children. Does that make me a paedo? No. That makes me a yummy mummy. If they say they like to do naughty things to children, it implies a crime has already occured. Paedophilia is a mental illness. Just like necrophilia and all the other philias that I cant spell. There is a difference between mental illness and independent opinion.
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
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Clodhopper
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I like children. I love my children.... That makes me a yummy mummy.
:) A yummy mummy is a very attractive mummy with a beautiful bottom. I'm sure you are, but I don't think that's what you meant.
Paedophilia is a mental illness. Just like necrophilia and all the other philias that I cant spell. There is a difference between mental illness and independent opinion.
Yeah, good point. Though I wonder at what point can I start arguing "brainwashing" as I saw claimed somewhere recently about fundamentalists...?
That's the trouble with using analogies: they often don't hold up well enough. I was just trying to find something equally foul as an example.
I certainly agree with freedom of speech. I think we probably have to rely on social pressure on racists and fascists at the grassroots level. Argument rarely sways prejudice. Since they've got a couple of Euro MPs they have to be dealt with politically as well. I don't like it, but I think it's right Griffin is on Question Time. Just hope he gets flayed.
:) A yummy mummy is a very attractive mummy with a beautiful bottom. I'm sure you are, but I don't think that's what you meant.
Paedophilia is a mental illness. Just like necrophilia and all the other philias that I cant spell. There is a difference between mental illness and independent opinion.
Yeah, good point. Though I wonder at what point can I start arguing "brainwashing" as I saw claimed somewhere recently about fundamentalists...?
That's the trouble with using analogies: they often don't hold up well enough. I was just trying to find something equally foul as an example.
I certainly agree with freedom of speech. I think we probably have to rely on social pressure on racists and fascists at the grassroots level. Argument rarely sways prejudice. Since they've got a couple of Euro MPs they have to be dealt with politically as well. I don't like it, but I think it's right Griffin is on Question Time. Just hope he gets flayed.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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Oscar Namechange
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Clodhopper;1252954 wrote: Griffin is definitely an anti Semite. Here we go again :rolleyes::rolleyes: As I know for fact that there are Jews in the BNP... show me proof that he is anti-semite.
And not an article from The Sun :rolleyes:
And not an article from The Sun :rolleyes:
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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lou lou belle
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I think this will answer it? lol! He wrote the book!!!
The BNP’s leader, Nick Griffin, was the author of a booklet entitled ‘The Mindbenders’, an exposé of alleged disproportionate Jewish influence in the British media. This was published within recent memory with the BNP now attempting to erase aspects of its history by saying Griffin had nothing to do with it. Unfortunately for him, we have the following quote in stark contradiction to the latest ‘in denial’ struggle of conscience. In issue number 3, on page 11, of The Patriot 1999, he declares, “I have been busy writing The Mindbendersâ€. Indelible, unambiguous and unequivocal!
What makes people like Griffin believe that political somersaults and twisted contortions will benefit them in the long run when inconsistency and downright opportunism does not go unnoticed and will surely follow them for the rest of their lives?
Nick Griffin | Jewcy.com
The BNP’s leader, Nick Griffin, was the author of a booklet entitled ‘The Mindbenders’, an exposé of alleged disproportionate Jewish influence in the British media. This was published within recent memory with the BNP now attempting to erase aspects of its history by saying Griffin had nothing to do with it. Unfortunately for him, we have the following quote in stark contradiction to the latest ‘in denial’ struggle of conscience. In issue number 3, on page 11, of The Patriot 1999, he declares, “I have been busy writing The Mindbendersâ€. Indelible, unambiguous and unequivocal!
What makes people like Griffin believe that political somersaults and twisted contortions will benefit them in the long run when inconsistency and downright opportunism does not go unnoticed and will surely follow them for the rest of their lives?
Nick Griffin | Jewcy.com
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Oscar Namechange
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lou lou belle;1253059 wrote: I think this will answer it? lol! He wrote the book!!!
The BNP’s leader, Nick Griffin, was the author of a booklet entitled ‘The Mindbenders’, an exposé of alleged disproportionate Jewish influence in the British media. This was published within recent memory with the BNP now attempting to erase aspects of its history by saying Griffin had nothing to do with it. Unfortunately for him, we have the following quote in stark contradiction to the latest ‘in denial’ struggle of conscience. In issue number 3, on page 11, of The Patriot 1999, he declares, “I have been busy writing The Mindbenders”. Indelible, unambiguous and unequivocal!
What makes people like Griffin believe that political somersaults and twisted contortions will benefit them in the long run when inconsistency and downright opportunism does not go unnoticed and will surely follow them for the rest of their lives?
Nick Griffin | Jewcy.com
LOL ???? That's a little childish is it not??
And you have undeniable proof that he he DID have something to do with It do you? Or are you just going by what you have copied and pasted?
Do you know the man? Have you met him? Have you heard his speeches on Israel?
This is what he actually says:
“Those who automatically blame “the Jews” for everything are blinded by their knee-jerking to a multitude of other factors, not least the age-old facts that “power corrupts” and that the monopolising aggression and greed which are the flip side of the short-term efficiency of capitalism know no borders or ethnic distinctions.
Those who claim to believe that no Jew ever does anything wrong, or that to criticise any Jew or group of Jews is a mortal sin against a group singled out by God or Hitler for special treatment and in consequence entitled ever-after to carry a globally valid ‘Get Out of Jail Free’ card, are clearly in the grip either of PC self-censorship or the last misguided upholders of the late 19th century ‘Master Race’ fantasy.
But equally, those who believe that only Jews are capable of abusing great power for their selfish personal or group benefit are sadly lacking in any grasp of the realities of human nature. Give an elite—any elite—power, especially over decades or generations, and that elite will abuse that power, and scheme, cheat and kill to maintain and extend it.
Sometimes Gentile elites even find in individual Jews a useful cover for their own greed: In medieval Europe, and pre-revolutionary Russia for instance, assorted Kings and Princes and Nobles used Jews as money-lenders and tax-collectors, knowing that this would lead to popular anger against the exploitation which they sanctioned and grew fat upon would be deflected onto their Jewish functionaries.
This tendency to blame wicked shadowy groups of ‘bad advisors’ doesn’t always require Jews—the same nonsense was spectacularly present in England at the time of the Peasants’ Revolt—but it has always helped those ‘on top’ to stay there, and rendered the efforts of the ‘common masses’ (that’s you and me, in case you still haven’t realised) to secure justice and self-determination. Throughout history there have indeed been instances which have borne out Marx’s dictum that “anti-Semitism is the socialism of fools.”
Similarly, while a number of Jewish intellectuals and lobbyists – including the Frankfurt School and most of the leaders of the Civil Rights movement – have played a key role in providing the academic and ‘moral’ justification’ for the multi-racial assault on the survival of separate races and cultures, it is utterly wrong of anti-Semitic bigots to overlook the fact that the key practical motor for mass immigration is and always has been the greed of wealthy individuals, companies and corporations. "
The BNP’s leader, Nick Griffin, was the author of a booklet entitled ‘The Mindbenders’, an exposé of alleged disproportionate Jewish influence in the British media. This was published within recent memory with the BNP now attempting to erase aspects of its history by saying Griffin had nothing to do with it. Unfortunately for him, we have the following quote in stark contradiction to the latest ‘in denial’ struggle of conscience. In issue number 3, on page 11, of The Patriot 1999, he declares, “I have been busy writing The Mindbenders”. Indelible, unambiguous and unequivocal!
What makes people like Griffin believe that political somersaults and twisted contortions will benefit them in the long run when inconsistency and downright opportunism does not go unnoticed and will surely follow them for the rest of their lives?
Nick Griffin | Jewcy.com
LOL ???? That's a little childish is it not??
And you have undeniable proof that he he DID have something to do with It do you? Or are you just going by what you have copied and pasted?
Do you know the man? Have you met him? Have you heard his speeches on Israel?
This is what he actually says:
“Those who automatically blame “the Jews” for everything are blinded by their knee-jerking to a multitude of other factors, not least the age-old facts that “power corrupts” and that the monopolising aggression and greed which are the flip side of the short-term efficiency of capitalism know no borders or ethnic distinctions.
Those who claim to believe that no Jew ever does anything wrong, or that to criticise any Jew or group of Jews is a mortal sin against a group singled out by God or Hitler for special treatment and in consequence entitled ever-after to carry a globally valid ‘Get Out of Jail Free’ card, are clearly in the grip either of PC self-censorship or the last misguided upholders of the late 19th century ‘Master Race’ fantasy.
But equally, those who believe that only Jews are capable of abusing great power for their selfish personal or group benefit are sadly lacking in any grasp of the realities of human nature. Give an elite—any elite—power, especially over decades or generations, and that elite will abuse that power, and scheme, cheat and kill to maintain and extend it.
Sometimes Gentile elites even find in individual Jews a useful cover for their own greed: In medieval Europe, and pre-revolutionary Russia for instance, assorted Kings and Princes and Nobles used Jews as money-lenders and tax-collectors, knowing that this would lead to popular anger against the exploitation which they sanctioned and grew fat upon would be deflected onto their Jewish functionaries.
This tendency to blame wicked shadowy groups of ‘bad advisors’ doesn’t always require Jews—the same nonsense was spectacularly present in England at the time of the Peasants’ Revolt—but it has always helped those ‘on top’ to stay there, and rendered the efforts of the ‘common masses’ (that’s you and me, in case you still haven’t realised) to secure justice and self-determination. Throughout history there have indeed been instances which have borne out Marx’s dictum that “anti-Semitism is the socialism of fools.”
Similarly, while a number of Jewish intellectuals and lobbyists – including the Frankfurt School and most of the leaders of the Civil Rights movement – have played a key role in providing the academic and ‘moral’ justification’ for the multi-racial assault on the survival of separate races and cultures, it is utterly wrong of anti-Semitic bigots to overlook the fact that the key practical motor for mass immigration is and always has been the greed of wealthy individuals, companies and corporations. "
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Clodhopper
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I've already quoted from that Mindbender pamphlet. Griffin named as the author by several sources including far right websites as well as having his name on the pamphlet and as LouLou says he SAYS he wrote it.
I note that your quotation has no identification - please provide so I can check it out. He seems to say whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear.
(Shakes head) It's clear the man has fooled you totally. You imply (but don't say) you have met him. You believe him the way you accuse us of not believing him. It's amazing how often he resembles Hitler in his actions and effect on people.
I note that your quotation has no identification - please provide so I can check it out. He seems to say whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear.
(Shakes head) It's clear the man has fooled you totally. You imply (but don't say) you have met him. You believe him the way you accuse us of not believing him. It's amazing how often he resembles Hitler in his actions and effect on people.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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Oscar Namechange
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Clodhopper;1253145 wrote: (Shakes head) It's clear the man has fooled you totally. You imply (but don't say) you have met him. You believe him the way you accuse us of not believing him. It's amazing how often he resembles Hitler in his actions and effect on people.
And where do you manage to glean that Griffin has fooled me? What I defend on these threads is the unfounded written about Griffin as I would anyone else who had been falsely written about. How many times do I have to ask you to actually prove that Griffin has denied there was ever a holocaust? How many times have I written on this forum that it is the hypocrisy of the UAF that I object to? Weather, anyone is a member of the BNP or not, it is fact that we have a present government and future leader telling us who we can not vote for in what is supposed to be a free democratic society with freedom of movement and speech. What I get annoyed about is when the unfounded is written and I can say that about GB, Cameron, Clegg, anyone. Also, the crap that we are facing one of the toughest times in recent years. If the doom and gloom merchants are to be believed, we are facing pay freezes, Increased working lives, cut backs, more job losses etc etc yet god forbid, some-one says 'let's curb mass Immigration, and suddenly they are a rascist. I find it utterly childish. Even Saint Cable is talking of curbing Immigration.
And where do you manage to glean that Griffin has fooled me? What I defend on these threads is the unfounded written about Griffin as I would anyone else who had been falsely written about. How many times do I have to ask you to actually prove that Griffin has denied there was ever a holocaust? How many times have I written on this forum that it is the hypocrisy of the UAF that I object to? Weather, anyone is a member of the BNP or not, it is fact that we have a present government and future leader telling us who we can not vote for in what is supposed to be a free democratic society with freedom of movement and speech. What I get annoyed about is when the unfounded is written and I can say that about GB, Cameron, Clegg, anyone. Also, the crap that we are facing one of the toughest times in recent years. If the doom and gloom merchants are to be believed, we are facing pay freezes, Increased working lives, cut backs, more job losses etc etc yet god forbid, some-one says 'let's curb mass Immigration, and suddenly they are a rascist. I find it utterly childish. Even Saint Cable is talking of curbing Immigration.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Clodhopper
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How many times do I have to ask you to actually prove that Griffin has denied there was ever a holocaust?
You are the only person who's posted who thinks I haven't, as far as I'm aware. Your argumentative technique is not about discovering the truth, it's about winning by any means:
You put words in my mouth I never said, ignore what you don't like, refuse to accept as valid any evidence that does not suit you and generally duck and weave. Your technique is, in the last analysis, about shouting louder than the other bloke. Great playground technique; inadequate to a serious exploration of any issue.
You are the only person who's posted who thinks I haven't, as far as I'm aware. Your argumentative technique is not about discovering the truth, it's about winning by any means:
You put words in my mouth I never said, ignore what you don't like, refuse to accept as valid any evidence that does not suit you and generally duck and weave. Your technique is, in the last analysis, about shouting louder than the other bloke. Great playground technique; inadequate to a serious exploration of any issue.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."