New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Ahso!
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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by Ahso! »

Being optimistic makes all this seem worth it then. I hope you're right and that is indeed where we are headed.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by spot »

Ahso!;1279263 wrote: Being optimistic makes all this seem worth it then. I hope you're right and that is indeed where we are headed.


File:Corporal punishment in Europe.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia gives a hint of which way opinion is tending to go.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by Ahso! »

spot;1279266 wrote: File:Corporal punishment in Europe.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia gives a hint of which way opinion is tending to go.i'm surprised at France.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by YZGI »

I was spanked, strapped, slapped and punched growing up, school was encouraged by my parents to swat me with a board if I ever got out of line.



I raised 3 boys and never laid a hand on them. I remember when growing up telling my parents that when I had kids I would never hit them and they laughed at me and told me too just wait.



The best discipline I used on my boys was my disappointment in their behavior when they acted up. My wife once told me that our kids biggest fears were to disappoint their father.



My oldest is a 6th grade teacher and sports coach with 2 young boys, My middle is a fireman and the youngest is now in college on a wrestling scholarship. Not too bad if I don't mind saying so.
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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by Saint_ »

The bottom line of this entire thread is a debate over whether or not spanking is bad for kids....its not. That's the flat out truth. If it was, since it has been used since the dawn of time, we certainly wouldn't have the civilization we have today.

As a matter of fact, things are getting worse. We're seeing a huge rise in violent crimes by juveniles. I point to the degradation of the family and the lack of self-motivation and self-discipline of today's children as compared to yesteryear's. Could a lack of discipline be a part of the reason? You bet.

Here's what Jay Leno said:



TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED THE

1920's,30's 40's, 50's,

60's and 70's!!

First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they were pregnant.

They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can and didn't get tested for diabetes.

Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs covered

with bright colored lead-base paints.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, locks on doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had baseball caps not helmets on our heads.

As infants & children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, no booster seats, no seat belts, no air bags, bald tires and sometimes no brakes.

Riding in the back of a pick- up truck on a warm day was always a special treat.

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle.

We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and no one actually died from this.

We ate cupcakes made with Lard, white bread, real butter and bacon. We drank FLAV- OR- AID made with real white sugar. And, we weren't overweight. WHY?

Because we were always outside playing....that's why!

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.. No one was able to reach us all day. And, we were OKAY.

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride them down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem

We did not have Play stations, Nintendo's and X-boxes. There were no video games, no 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's,

no surround-sound or CD's,

no cell phones,

no personal computers,

no Internet and no chat rooms.



WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!

We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits from these accidents.

We would get spankings with wooden spoons, switches, ping pong paddles, or just a bare hand and no one would call child services to report abuse.

We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever..

We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with sticks and tennis balls and, although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just walked in and talked to them.

Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team.

Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment..Imagine that!!

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!

These generations have produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever. The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas. What can kids today do besides push buttons...

We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all.

If YOU are one of them, CONGRATULATIONS!



You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow up as kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated so much of our lives for our own good.

So spanking, as well as all the other forms of personal responsibility training are not only important to develop young internal self-image, they are critical to our society.;)
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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by spot »

Saint_;1279296 wrote: So spanking, as well as all the other forms of personal responsibility training are not only important to develop young internal self-image, they are critical to our society.;)


Why, if that's the case, have so many European countries (see the map I linked earlier today) banned it both at school and at home? Do you really think they do that without any reason? Their legislation is diametrically opposed to your opinion.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by fuzzywuzzy »

The best discipline I used on my boys was my disappointment in their behavior when they acted up. My wife once told me that our kids biggest fears were to disappoint their father.


That's exactly what works for me. YZGI...............the kids see my face or hear me sigh and that's enough.
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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by fuzzywuzzy »

Saint_;1279296 wrote: The bottom line of this entire thread is a debate over whether or not spanking is bad for kids....its not. That's the flat out truth. If it was, since it has been used since the dawn of time, we certainly wouldn't have the civilization we have today.

As a matter of fact, things are getting worse. We're seeing a huge rise in violent crimes by juveniles. I point to the degradation of the family and the lack of self-motivation and self-discipline of today's children as compared to yesteryear's. Could a lack of discipline be a part of the reason? You bet.



So spanking, as well as all the other forms of personal responsibility training are not only important to develop young internal self-image, they are critical to our society.;)


Oh what a load of dribble. After reading your comment about not telling a parent how to parent...... and giving the excuse "it's not my job" which in itself a very bad example of a teacher. Teaching means teaching the *whole* of the child....parent input is important but not essential. dont tell me you're one of these teachers that stands in class going on and on and on and then if the kids arent' interested it's their fault? You obviously havent looked deeply enough into why that girl doesn't go to school .....that to me is failure as a teacher. If this is the case then maybe saying "it's not my job" you might have to say "this shouldn't be my job"

Okay lack of self motivation- give the kid something to do make it interesting and exciting !!! wet their appetite to learn. if it's not apart of the cuririculum Make it part of the curriculum.

Self discipline _ see above comment. mix the above comment with routine.

I had a teacher come to my house and teach me when I couldn't get to school.......beyond what was her job. She didn't have to but felt her job was important. she didn't just send books home to me she came out herself. Now that's a proper teacher. she didn't say ...."It's not my job"!!!:-5

children don't fail adults fail them...............so then what do adults do? spank them
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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by Saint_ »

spot;1279359 wrote: Their legislation is diametrically opposed to your opinion.


Yet thousands of years of civilization is perfectly aligned with my opinion.

I knew when this thread started that one side would never see the other's point of view and vice versa, so I'm not disappointed. As for the discipline / no discipline question...well that'll certainly be decided by the future.;)

thread out.:D
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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by Saint_ »

fuzzywuzzy;1279379 wrote: which in itself a very bad example of a teacher.


Said the person who is not a teacher and has no idea what that means...:wah:

Wasn't it you that admitted your children grew up to be thieves? And we're supposed to take your advice?
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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by fuzzywuzzy »

thieves!!!! What?
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Post by fuzzywuzzy »

Saint_;1279392 wrote: Said the person who is not a teacher and has no idea what that means...:wah:

Wasn't it you that admitted your children grew up to be thieves? And we're supposed to take your advice?


I have a dip in child psych

a dip in early child care (My first career path)

I'm a a 'brigades in schools' instructor

I've been a foster parent

I've taken reading and classes at our primary school

I've begun Uni to do my bachelor of education.

I've been married to a police officer for 20 years and I've seen children on life support more times than I want to remember, from adults who discipline children the way you suggest and support .

don't you effing tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.!!!!

I've been taught by teachers. We all have !!!! fortunetly I've always had extremely good teachers.
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Post by Ahso! »

Saint_;1279392 wrote: Wasn't it you that admitted your children grew up to be thieves? And we're supposed to take your advice?Not nice, Saint. When a person takes a chance and confides in us, we should respect that person. You really should apologize for your remark.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Be the wave that I am and then

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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by fuzzywuzzy »

I never said my children grew up thieves. Good God

and if someone on here has said that he better bloody apologise
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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by Ahso! »

fuzzywuzzy;1279433 wrote: I never said my children grew up thieves. Good God

and if someone on here has said that he better bloody apologiseI know you didn't, Fuzzy. I think Saint just got too emotional during the exchange. Everything you posted was absolutely perfectly fine.
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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by Saint_ »

fuzzywuzzy;1279421 wrote: I have a dip in child psych

a dip in early child care (My first career path)

I'm a a 'brigades in schools' instructor

I've been a foster parent

I've taken reading and classes at our primary school

I've begun Uni to do my bachelor of education.

I've been married to a police officer for 20 years and I've seen children on life support more times than I want to remember, from adults who discipline children the way you suggest and support .

don't you effing tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.!!!!

I've been taught by teachers. We all have !!!! fortunetly I've always had extremely good teachers.


Oh... my mistake... who was that then? Somebody said something about it...
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Post by Saint_ »

Oh wait... here it is:



Stealing. my middle son went through a phase of stealing ... he just picked things up and kept them.

:-3
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Post by Ahso! »

Saint_;1279466 wrote: Oh... my mistake... who was that then? Somebody said something about it...Not only was your remark incorrect, but it was cheap too. You should apologize.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by Saint_ »

Oh wait... here it is. It was Fuzzywuzzy!!!:confused:



Fuzzywuzzy wrote: Stealing. my middle son went through a phase of stealing ... he just picked things up and kept them.

:-3
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Post by fuzzywuzzy »

Saint_;1279469 wrote: Oh wait... here it is. It was Fuzzywuzzy!!!:confused:


he was four you ********. god you're an idiot!!!
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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by spot »

Saint_;1279390 wrote: Yet thousands of years of civilization is perfectly aligned with my opinion.

I knew when this thread started that one side would never see the other's point of view and vice versa, so I'm not disappointed. As for the discipline / no discipline question...well that'll certainly be decided by the future.;)

thread out.:D


Why, if that's the case, have so many European countries (see the map I linked earlier today) banned it both at school and at home? Do you really think they do that without any reason?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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New Research: Why Never Spanking Might Be Worse for Kids Than Spanking Them

Post by Clodhopper »

I think it falls into the framework of that's what was considered legal in the country at the time (the Nuremberg rulings were retroactive), that lots of other people were doing it, that it was a reasonable reaction to obvious and generally recognized wickedness. Hindsight provides a different viewpoint which wasn't available at the time. Hindsight will, I suggest, consider physical disciplining of children to be utterly abusive and harmful, just as eventually it will regard abortion the same way once birth control becomes in inherent choice for women as opposed to an external intervention. I think the society of the future will totally reject both.

Physically disciplining children degrades both the victim and the inflictor. The fact that the inflictor is oblivious to the degradation doesn't make the act acceptable at all.


(My bold)

The highlighted part is where we disagree, I think. But that's a side issue here.
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Post by spot »

Clodhopper;1279581 wrote: The highlighted part is where we disagree, I think. But that's a side issue here.
I speak, as I noted, of the view at the time. We can at least both agree that hindsight has demolished the notion. Do you really think it wasn't current opinion back then, there? I'm quite certain it was.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by Clodhopper »

There was a great deal of anti-Semitism at the time, much of it only recently being acknowledged. But you jumped straight to gas ovens. Had you stuck with anti-Semitism I could have swallowed it the analogy, but the gas oven bit stuck. Putting it the other way, while you might well get many here to support the "thoughtful tap" method I doubt you'd find many who think the mass murder of children for disciplinary reasons is reasonable.

(And without derailing the thread completely there's a good deal of evidence that the Nazis knew very well that what they were doing was more than a reasonable response to a known wickedness. I imagine you know about the Wannsee Conference)
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Post by Kathy Ellen »

Saint_;1279392 wrote: Said the person who is not a teacher and has no idea what that means...:wah:



Wasn't it you that admitted your children grew up to be thieves? And we're supposed to take your advice?


Saint,



I do not know you, but I do know that what you said to Fuzzy was absolutely arrogant, rude and down-right nasty. I can't believe that you'd have the nerve to talk to her this way.



Fuzzy has raised 3 lovely boys who are loving, smart, adventurous and good fun.



Fuzzy never said they were thieves. I believe that you should reread what she has written and apologize to her......I really do!
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Post by fuzzywuzzy »

Actually Kathy there is no need because I've already called him a bloody idiot.

I know my boys ......did I mention Keehan won a scholarship for a paper he wrote on the Boar War . ( I'll put it up) Good way to begin High school. And Brett is off to New Zealand in March for a competition shoot and fly fishing . It may astound Saint that Brett is shooting for his school who taught him to shoot. And we both know all three of my boys are avid world travellers.

Who cares what he thinks of my children .........I know better. :)
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Post by Saint_ »

Here's some very interesting research:

http://207.200.19.180/images/10000/3000 ... 0Theft.doc

DOES INCONSISTENT DISCIPLINE INFLUENCE JUVENILE THEFT?

YES, studies suggest that children raised with inconsistent discipline are likely to develop an antisocial attitude. Children with an antisocial attitude are more likely to commit juvenile theft and other delinquent acts when parents or other authority figures 1) do not keep their promises, 2) fail to consistently enforce rules or 3) administer punishment in unpredictable ways. Children who experience inconsistent discipline learn that their own behaviors have no relationship to predictable social consequences. Children who do not trust society to deliver appropriate rewards or consequences tend to develop a socially detached and self-centered attitude.

Waln K. Brown, Ph.D.

Thomas A. Newnam, B.A.

Warren A. Rhodes, Ph.D.

William Gladden Foundation

Fuzzy stated that her child went through a "phase." That word literally means a length of time, not a single instance. This makes it clear to me that inconsistent discipline can and does have negative consequences for children, and this research backs me up. Sorry if your feelings got hurt, Fuzzy, but I'm more interested in facts.

'nuff said...point proven.:)

thread out.
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Post by YZGI »

Saint_;1279969 wrote: Here's some very interesting research:



http://207.200.19.180/images/10000/3000 ... 0Theft.doc



DOES INCONSISTENT DISCIPLINE INFLUENCE JUVENILE THEFT?



YES, studies suggest that children raised with inconsistent discipline are likely to develop an antisocial attitude. Children with an antisocial attitude are more likely to commit juvenile theft and other delinquent acts when parents or other authority figures 1) do not keep their promises, 2) fail to consistently enforce rules or 3) administer punishment in unpredictable ways. Children who experience inconsistent discipline learn that their own behaviors have no relationship to predictable social consequences. Children who do not trust society to deliver appropriate rewards or consequences tend to develop a socially detached and self-centered attitude.



Waln K. Brown, Ph.D.

Thomas A. Newnam, B.A.

Warren A. Rhodes, Ph.D.



William Gladden Foundation



Fuzzy stated that her child went through a "phase." That word literally means a length of time, not a single instance. This makes it clear to me that inconsistent discipline can and does have negative consequences for children, and this research backs me up. Sorry if your feelings got hurt, Fuzzy, but I'm more interested in facts.



'nuff said...point proven.:)



thread out.


Hell, Saint.

I got beat like a baby seal on baby seal beating day and I once stole a t-shirt transfer off a bag of potato chips while shopping with my mom.

The beatings didn't stop from taking that transfer. I had to take the grocery man a dime and then go home for my strapping.
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Post by spot »

I'm sure your article's correct, Saint.

What's inconsistent with rewarding good behaviour consistently, and refusing to use physical punishment consistently, and consistently getting your child to want to please you?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by Ahso! »

Saint, have you bothered to read that article you posted? Nowhere in it does it recommend or encourage the use of any physical discipline for children. As a matter of fact, on page 16 it highlights the discouragement of any physical discipline. The word "spank or spanking" does not even appear in the article, unless I missed it.

I would note that the three people who wrote the article seem to have religious ties and beliefs and that shows through in the content of the article.
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