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The census people better get this thing Politically Correct.

'Negro' Race Choice On Census Form Sparks Outrage - wcbstv.com

LOL! Over here it's plain 'black'. Better than being 'white-other' like me! :yh_rotfl

"I'm an American. What's wrong with just being an American?" asked Newark resident Derri Gowns

Says it all really

I always choose 'other'

I don't see this as an issue of political correctness. Most people in the black community understand that the word "negros" was code for "niggras" which was the southwestern way of saying you know what. Its just plain insulting as it should be to all people, not just members of one particular race.

What does colour have to do with it anyway? White/black/brown/red/yellow...we are still only one race populating this planet, and that is human. We just live in different spots on the same globe.

The census is done for a variety of reasons, one of those is to observe how well the population is intermingling or coexisting racially and on a basis of income.

Census - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Raven;1280007 wrote: What does colour have to do with it anyway? White/black/brown/red/yellow...we are still only one race populating this planet, and that is human. We just live in different spots on the same globe.


Except for the Mongols.

That is one freakish bunch.

Ahso!;1279994 wrote: I don't see this as an issue of political correctness. Most people in the black community understand that the word "negros" was code for "niggras" which was the southwestern way of saying you know what. Its just plain insulting as it should be to all people, not just members of one particular race.


You got it backwards, brother.

negro = Spanish for 'black' has been in common official usage for centuries.

"niggras" and "that other word we dare not speak" were "sloppy English" for Negro(s).



Not that the racial designations on the census docs make any sense at all.

Caucasian for white folks never really made that much sense. How many of use are from the Caucasus region?

and "Hispanic" should mean "from Spain" but now refers to descendants from indigenous American tribes that inhabited the Americas, who have Spanish surnames, while "Native Amecican" refers to descendants of indigenous Americans who do not have Spanish surnames.

But then the hispanic gets even weirder because it tends to include anyone with a "Spanish surname"

My daughter married a son of Cuban imigres so her children are now considered "Hispanic". While His sister married a guy named Jones, so her children are "Caucasian"



It's all just words, man.

LarsMac;1280021 wrote: You got it backwards, brother.

negro = Spanish for 'black' has been in common official usage for centuries.

"niggras" and "that other word we dare not speak" were "sloppy English" for Negro(s).



Not that the racial designations on the census docs make any sense at all.

Caucasian for white folks never really made that much sense. How many of use are from the Caucasus region?

and "Hispanic" should mean "from Spain" but now refers to descendants from indigenous American tribes that inhabited the Americas, who have Spanish surnames, while "Native Amecican" refers to descendants of indigenous Americans who do not have Spanish surnames.

But then the hispanic gets even weirder because it tends to include anyone with a "Spanish surname"

My daughter married a son of Cuban imigres so her children are now considered "Hispanic". While His sister married a guy named Jones, so her children are "Caucasian"



It's all just words, man.As interracial marriages increase the census will most likely become irrelevant unless its already reached that point.

As for the language thing regarding negro"s and niggra's, its difficult for me to imagine people such as LBJ were that sloppy with their english. Either that or it went full circle. What I'm suggesting is that the word negro came into usage for many americans only after "niggra" became unacceptable.

Ahso!;1280027 wrote: As interracial marriages increase the census will most likely become irrelevant unless its already reached that point.



As for the language thing regarding negro"s and niggra's, its difficult for me to imagine people such as LBJ were that sloppy with their english. Either that or it went full circle.
LBJ was a Texan. Thats how they spoke. Mind you, he was a true born and bred Texan unlike that OTHER President.

Raven;1280029 wrote: LBJ was a Texan. Thats how they spoke. Mind you, he was a true born and bred Texan unlike that OTHER President.I'm aware of that, but he was also a lawyer. The word niggra is a far cry from negro. Even though LBJ signed the civil rights act into law, he himself was racist by all indications. He also said that signing that act would be the destruction of the Democratic party. We must not forget that it was the southern democrats at the time which were known as the racists.

Ahso!;1280034 wrote: I'm aware of that, but he was also a lawyer. The word niggra is a far cry from negro. Even though LBJ signed the civil rights act into law, he himself was racist by all indications. He also said that signing that act would be the destruction of the Democratic party. We must not forget that it was the southern democrats at the time which were known as the racists.
It is nice to know that history has proven LBJ wrong. Barack Obama is a Democrat. The South is rolling in its grave! :wah:

I dont think people understand the full implication of how very wrong the South and racism actually is. Slavery is not the issue. RACISM is. You dont have to be racist to be a slave owner. Rome for example. They were not picky, they enslaved everybody. But this madness of modern racism has to stop! How can it make sense to anyone, hating or despising a person because they are a different colour???

Ahso!;1280027 wrote:

As for the language thing regarding negro"s and niggra's, its difficult for me to imagine people such as LBJ were that sloppy with their english. Either that or it went full circle. What I'm suggesting is that the word negro came into usage for many americans only after "niggra" became unacceptable.




Modern American language is rife with words born of sloppy pronunciation.

I can say the same for most countries where English is the predominant language.

Humans are lazy with their speech which leads to all sorts of examples of language evolution.

But, I digress.



Show me some documents where the word 'niggra' was ever officially used.

His exact words as recorded, which was supposedly said to an aide after signing the bill was "we've lost the south for a generation." Which when you look at presidential elections for the next 12 years were all republican, then Carter for four years and then republican again for the next 12 years until Clinton.

The south has been pretty solidly republican in congress ever since the bill was signed.

LarsMac;1280043 wrote: Modern American language is rife with words born of sloppy pronunciation.

I can say the same for most countries where English is the predominant language.

Humans are lazy with their speech which leads to all sorts of examples of language evolution.

But, I digress.



Show me some documents where the word 'niggra' was ever officially used.Never officially used, but was common verbal speech for southern officials. Following is an interesting little tidbit from the urban dictionary.

1. Niggra

This term was used during the Jim Crow Law days when the rednecks of the South couldn't pronounce the words due to their heavily Southern drawls. Used vastly in the movie Mississipi Burning in the correct anounciation. Also has been coined as being the combination of "NIGGER" and "NEGRO"

These nigras was alright 'til y'all come down here to mess with them.

2. niggra

A "trifling Negro". One who encroaches on matters to make them seem more important than they actually are, acting ridiculously.

That fool was being such a niggra, trying to tell me that the KFC Snacker was "the best damn deal ever".


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Niggra

Is this racist?.

Attached files

Coming from a white elitist? Probably. They look down on everybody. And the most charitable remark is usually insulting and derisive in nature. So yes, that is most likely racist.

Raven;1280007 wrote: What does colour have to do with it anyway? White/black/brown/red/yellow...we are still only one race populating this planet, and that is human. We just live in different spots on the same globe.


I completely agree with you on this Raven. I don't know why we have to have all these nation specific titles. If someone insists on me calling them African American, Hispanic American, Italian American and so on, then I tell them I insist they call me an English, Irish, German, French, Dutch and Swedish American (even tho I usually refer to myself as a mutt :wah:). We are Americans...plain and simple.

Did nobody see "they found some older African Americans identify themselves that way and they're trying to be inclusive", in the article?

The problem is that some people get hot under the collar when they see the word and some have it as a self-description. It would be presumptuous to censor it from those who use it of themselves, surely.

I can't see why they didn't give three boxes though. That would have provided even more useful information.

shelbell;1280092 wrote: I completely agree with you on this Raven. I don't know why we have to have all these nation specific titles. If someone insists on me calling them African American, Hispanic American, Italian American and so on, then I tell them I insist they call me an English, Irish, German, French, Dutch and Swedish American (even tho I usually refer to myself as a mutt :wah:). We are Americans...plain and simple.
Exactly. If more people insisted upon being called a human being, then maybe more folks would get along!

spot;1280095 wrote: Did nobody see "they found some older African Americans identify themselves that way and they're trying to be inclusive", in the article?

The problem is that some people get hot under the collar when they see the word and some have it as a self-description. It would be presumptuous to censor it from those who use it of themselves, surely.

I can't see why they didn't give three boxes though. That would have provided even more useful information.


What I find disturbing about this is the fact that soon, they will probably add the taboo "N" word. Why? I'm not sure how other countries are, but here it seems so much of the younger black generation use the "N" word so much. They use it to describe themselves, call other blacks, it's even in so much of the music here. It used to be such a derogatory word that so many black leaders fought against...you'd think the younger generations would hate that word at least as much as I do. I just think it's sad.

shelbell;1280107 wrote: What I find disturbing about this is the fact that soon, they will probably add the taboo "N" word. Why? I'm not sure how other countries are, but here it seems so much of the younger black generation use the "N" word so much. They use it to describe themselves, call other blacks, it's even in so much of the music here. It used to be such a derogatory word that so many black leaders fought against...you'd think the younger generations would hate that word at least as much as I do. I just think it's sad.


Lenny Bruce got it right. The only way to defuse a word is to make it trivial by using it instead of screaming when it's used. "The power of words to hurt and marginalize and categorize and slander is real. It exists. What makes it go away? Lenny suggests - get the mystique out of it. Words are like electricity - take the 'charge' away and they're limp." That's from NET POLITIK

spot;1280113 wrote: Lenny Bruce got it right. The only way to defuse a word is to make it trivial by using it instead of screaming when it's used. "The power of words to hurt and marginalize and categorize and slander is real. It exists. What makes it go away? Lenny suggests - get the mystique out of it. Words are like electricity - take the 'charge' away and they're limp." That's from NET POLITIK


But at the same time, if another race were to call them the "N" word it would be considered racist, so I just can't imagine taking the racial tension out of that word. To me it would be the equivalent of women going around calling each other the taboo "C" word...but if a man used it they'd be knocked into next week. I know a lot of words have been defused over the years and people now use them freely, to the dismay of some, but I still believe there are some words that will never be acceptable in society, or I should say, in society as we know it.

The problem I have with the Bruce doctrine is its easy to do in a comedy setting where anything is expected. However, its a different story in the real world when your standing at a counter applying for a job and you overhear the teller tell the boss that theres a ni__er at the counter applying for a job. It just doesn't sound the same to me.

Perhaps in 60 years from now that will be different, but I have to imagine that words such as the ones we're discussing will no longer be a part of the vernacular to the majority.

I think this kind of racism needs to die out over some generations.

spot;1280113 wrote: Lenny Bruce got it right. The only way to defuse a word is to make it trivial by using it instead of screaming when it's used. "The power of words to hurt and marginalize and categorize and slander is real. It exists. What makes it go away? Lenny suggests - get the mystique out of it. Words are like electricity - take the 'charge' away and they're limp." That's from NET POLITIK


what is interesting about that is that Lenny found out that he is a descendent of a 'overseer' on a slave plantation . You could see his astonishment . Almost disgust.

And what was really interesting is that he found a prostitute (a wealthy one) that he was also a descendent of was more pleasurable to him. I make no judgement here ......But it struck me that an overseer was below a prostitute. It's interesting to say the least.

I also have to add.............and I know it's just me because we've had this debate before. The word Nigger is not something that is deplorable to me. You see, that word is historical . It seems to me that good men and women lived under that term . So it doesn't matter what the term is, it makes no difference. If those who lived under it were good and strong people then the term is one of prestege. It's one of great importance. It's one of .......in hte end to be a descendent? of being proud.

Maybe you yanks aren't their yet. Maybe you still use it as a demeaning word . It's so easily turned around.

Don't worry, one day it will be a catch cry for you all . One of importance, as a struggle . a word meant to depict optimism and strength. Mostly strength.

Notice i used the word Yank? Yank is usually used as a demeaning term to describe Americans. some of you are proud to be called a Yank ...others not so much....but it is used as a demeaning term .

Raven;1280086 wrote: Coming from a white elitist? Probably. They look down on everybody. And the most charitable remark is usually insulting and derisive in nature. So yes, that is most likely racist.


Your comment is interesting Raven. The pic is from a watermelon packing firm of years past. Who would the white elitist be?

fuzzywuzzy;1280158 wrote: I also have to add.............and I know it's just me because we've had this debate before. The word Nigger is not something that is deplorable to me. You see, that word is historical . It seems to me that good men and women lived under that term . So it doesn't matter what the term is, it makes no difference. If those who lived under it were good and strong people then the term is one of prestege. It's one of great importance. It's one of .......in hte end to be a descendent? of being proud.

Maybe you yanks aren't their yet. Maybe you still use it as a demeaning word . It's so easily turned around.

Don't worry, one day it will be a catch cry for you all . One of importance, as a struggle . a word meant to depict optimism and strength. Mostly strength.

Notice i used the word Yank? Yank is usually used as a demeaning term to describe Americans. some of you are proud to be called a Yank ...others not so much....but it is used as a demeaning term .I don't see it as anything such as not being "there yet." I would rather not lend even the slightest bit of legitimacy to the vile attitude that was so pervasive in my culture for far too long, it even persists in some to this day. Its idiot speak that belongs dead and buried along with those who used it.

The last time a person used that word in my presence, I turned to my wife laughing and said: Can you believe this? Its now the 21st century and he is still using 19th century language like ni__er. Then I turned back to the guy and said: Do you really expect me to take you seriously when you haven't even learned to communicate beyond yesterday? I doubt he will ever use that word in my presence again. And if he never speaks to me again, I'd be fine with that too.

Its idiot speak that belongs dead and buried along with those who used it.


Unfortunetly it's not "idiot speak" unless you want those in power (your heroes) to be seen as idiots. reflection upon yourselves really . is that it? you don't want to be seen as idiots?

But if you "dead and bury" the term . Then you "dead and bury" those under that term.....is that what you wish ...? get rid of the evidence? clean slate?? no such thing . so it is up to you to transform that word. It's quite easy!!!

The truth and evidence should have the bright of day !!!! like I said only you guys can turn it around . Do you see the word 'Jew' dead and buried? In my country do you see the term 'wog' dead and buried. ....no.

you know how to change those using it now ? put a good meaning to it ....simple reverse psychology . A strong fortheright meaning to understand the struggle behind that term.

Lon;1280083 wrote: Is this racist?.


Depends

fuzzywuzzy;1280158 wrote: I also have to add.............and I know it's just me because we've had this debate before. The word Nigger is not something that is deplorable to me. You see, that word is historical . It seems to me that good men and women lived under that term . So it doesn't matter what the term is, it makes no difference. If those who lived under it were good and strong people then the term is one of prestege. It's one of great importance. It's one of .......in hte end to be a descendent? of being proud.



Maybe you yanks aren't their yet. Maybe you still use it as a demeaning word . It's so easily turned around.



Don't worry, one day it will be a catch cry for you all . One of importance, as a struggle . a word meant to depict optimism and strength. Mostly strength.



Notice i used the word Yank? Yank is usually used as a demeaning term to describe Americans. some of you are proud to be called a Yank ...others not so much....but it is used as a demeaning term .
I have actually noticed that the 'yanks' you are trying to educate, have not responded in kind. This would incate a general disapproval of the taste of ones conversation.

Lon;1280165 wrote: Your comment is interesting Raven. The pic is from a watermelon packing firm of years past. Who would the white elitist be?
The owner of the packing firm who was probably white. Most blacks didnt have the opportunity to own their own business. Civil rights didnt get teeth until the 60's and 70's. Barack Obama had to be educated elsewhere before he could get a good one. (education)

And being american myself, I know the about the derisory conotation of blacks with watermelon. Just like blacks with golliwogs over here. Especially with the term Sambo, which is referring to slavery. Do you remember the Sambo resteraunts?

Polliwogs are tadpoles. Golliwogs are old-fashioned blackface dolls for children.

LOL! Beg pardon. Thanks for the correction!:yh_rotfl My bad.

Raven;1280252 wrote: The owner of the packing firm who was probably white. Most blacks didnt have the opportunity to own their own business. Civil rights didnt get teeth until the 60's and 70's. Barack Obama had to be educated elsewhere before he could get a good one. (education)

And being american myself, I know the about the derisory conotation of blacks with watermelon. Just like blacks with golliwogs over here. Especially with the term Sambo, which is referring to slavery. Do you remember the Sambo resteraunts?


Oh yes I remember that chain of eateries, and I remember all my racist Florida in-laws in the 50's that constantly baited me about having to go to school with niggers. And some of those in laws that were involved in violent acts against African Americans, and who now today, no longer use epithets and are VERY POLITICALLY CORRECT because it's no longer socially acceptable to be a racist.

Lon;1280320 wrote: Oh yes I remember that chain of eateries, and I remember all my racist Florida in-laws in the 50's that constantly baited me about having to go to school with niggers. And some of those in laws that were involved in violent acts against African Americans, and who now today, no longer use epithets and are VERY POLITICALLY CORRECT because it's no longer socially acceptable to be a racist.
Well I cant say that I remember back quite that far! But I do remember the closing of those resteraunts very quietly and without a fuss they changed into Golden Bears. Got my first job in one. My mother washed my mouth out with soap when she heard me call my cousin a 'n****r'. (I was 6) He is as white as I am of course, but that was not the point. I remember when they started desegregating the township schools by bussing. I didnt understand the fuss then. I do now. I cant believe grown people would protest the fact that their children would be going to school with a bunch of 'n****rs'. I also remember, faintly, the day my mother explained why 4 little girls who were guilty of nothing but singing to Jesus got blown up in a Church basement in Birmingham, just because it was a black Baptist Church.

My point is Lon, I will have to stand with the PC brigade on this one. What they identify themselves as would mean something different and demean them coming from a white person. And considering the history, and as recent as it still is, more care should be taken. After all, these are fellow human beings we are talking about who have just as much right to enjoy the freedoms America portends to stand for as the rest of us. All men are created equal and all have the right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Mind you, this is my personal opinion, and far be it for me to try and persuade anyone to change theirs.

Lon;1280320 wrote: Oh yes I remember that chain of eateries, and I remember all my racist Florida in-laws in the 50's that constantly baited me about having to go to school with niggers. And some of those in laws that were involved in violent acts against African Americans, and who now today, no longer use epithets and are VERY POLITICALLY CORRECT because it's no longer socially acceptable to be a racist.


Thank God for THAT!

I started school the DC area, and then moved to LA (El Monte and Covena) and the remember that kids of all sorts were in class together. The neighborhood I lived in had kids of all colors. We moved to South Florida in the late fifties, and I still remember the gas stations with White restrooms on one side, and "colored" on the other.

It was quite a cultural shift for me.

In high school, I was labeled a 'nigger-lover' and took a couple of beatings for not seeing the right way.

In the military, after high school, I again found myself on the wrong side of the "race thing" a few times.

Those were painful years for the country.

Looking around today, though, I am not sure the lessons were learned well.

And some of those in laws that were involved in violent acts against African Americans, and who now today, no longer use epithets and are VERY POLITICALLY CORRECT because it's no longer socially acceptable to be a racist.


I'd see that as a win for political correctness. And America.

After giving this some more thought ... I don't see what they are measuring, why they are measuring this, and what they intend to do with the information about skin color.

Why does a census need to ask about race in the first place? Why can't we just deal in units of "people"? Is one unit of "Caucasian" different than one unit of "Negro"?

yaaarrrgg;1280389 wrote: After giving this some more thought ... I don't see what they are measuring, why they are measuring this, and what they intend to do with the information about skin color.

Why does a census need to ask about race in the first place? Why can't we just deal in units of "people"? Is one unit of "Caucasian" different than one unit of "Negro"?My guess is that the census is probably serving some corporate interest somehow. Maybe FOX?

Ahso!;1280394 wrote: My guess is that the census is probably serving some corporate interest somehow. Maybe FOX?


Maybe they use the numbers to scare the people watching the shows.

yaaarrrgg;1280401 wrote: Maybe they use the numbers to scare the people watching the shows. :)Gathering information to launch theie "Palin for president" campaign perhaps.

Ahso!;1280402 wrote: Gathering information to launch theie "Palin for president" campaign perhaps.


Ah, not a bad idea. The GOP probably wouldn't want to waste their campaign money on predominantly black communities ... it's an angry white man party.

yaaarrrgg;1280407 wrote: Ah, not a bad idea. The GOP probably wouldn't want to waste their campaign money on predominantly black communities ... it's an angry white man party.Plus they need to know which homes get the "black" fliers and which get the "white" ones. Today with so many mixed marriages its a tedious process and they need to get going early.

Raven;1280351 wrote: Well I cant say that I remember back quite that far! But I do remember the closing of those resteraunts very quietly and without a fuss they changed into Golden Bears. Got my first job in one. My mother washed my mouth out with soap when she heard me call my cousin a 'n****r'. (I was 6) He is as white as I am of course, but that was not the point. I remember when they started desegregating the township schools by bussing. I didnt understand the fuss then. I do now. I cant believe grown people would protest the fact that their children would be going to school with a bunch of 'n****rs'. I also remember, faintly, the day my mother explained why 4 little girls who were guilty of nothing but singing to Jesus got blown up in a Church basement in Birmingham, just because it was a black Baptist Church.

My point is Lon, I will have to stand with the PC brigade on this one. What they identify themselves as would mean something different and demean them coming from a white person. And considering the history, and as recent as it still is, more care should be taken. After all, these are fellow human beings we are talking about who have just as much right to enjoy the freedoms America portends to stand for as the rest of us. All men are created equal and all have the right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Mind you, this is my personal opinion, and far be it for me to try and persuade anyone to change theirs.


I certainly agree about doing away with the racial epithets, but I am concerned about what I consider to be extreme PC that is currently taking place. EXAMPLE---

No longer do they refer to someone that the police picks up as a suspect-----they are now called A PERSON OF INTEREST. A child is no longer lost in the woods---they have GONE MISSING (not really a PC thing, but an example of the media changing our thinking.

Ahso!;1280394 wrote: My guess is that the census is probably serving some corporate interest somehow. Maybe FOX?


Just corporate interest? How about governmental?

Lon;1280462 wrote: Just corporate interest? How about governmental?Of course I don't know anything for sure on that, Lon. It was more tongue in cheek. Having some fun.

Lon;1280460 wrote: I certainly agree about doing away with the racial epithets, but I am concerned about what I consider to be extreme PC that is currently taking place. EXAMPLE---

No longer do they refer to someone that the police picks up as a suspect-----they are now called A PERSON OF INTEREST. A child is no longer lost in the woods---they have GONE MISSING (not really a PC thing, but an example of the media changing our thinking.


I think "person of interest" is one step below a suspect. "Person of interest" sounds more like you might just have useful information. This language is probably used to avoid prejudicing opinion before the facts are all in. Naming someone a suspect might result in them being crucified in the court of public opinion and ruin their life (loss of job, etc).

yaaarrrgg;1280466 wrote: I think "person of interest" is one step below a suspect. "Person of interest" sounds more like you might just have useful information. This language is probably used to avoid prejudicing opinion before the facts are all in. Naming someone a suspect might result in them being crucified in the court of public opinion and ruin their life (loss of job, etc).


Good point.