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How about that black security guard playing 'butler' and house man at Number 10!! :yh_rotfl Shame!

Interesting stuff. Taken from the BBC website:



10 things about British slavery

The story of British slavery is one of the greatest untold stories in UK history. It's a subject people don't talk about, with most Brits knowing more about slavery in the Deep South of the US. BBC Two's The Slavery Business is shedding some light on the truth behind Britain's slavery empire. Here are 10 things the series uncovers.



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1. The British were the first big slave-trading nation to abandon the trade. They did this in 1807 when there were still huge profits to be made, and they did it for mainly moral reasons. It took a revolution of the slaves to destroy France's system and a terrible civil war in the US decided the fate of the slaves of the Southern States. In Britain alone slavery was ended by millions of people, black and white, free and enslaved, who decided it could no longer be tolerated.

2. From the ending of the slave trade to the beginning of the 20th Century, the Royal Navy patrolled off the coast of Africa searching for slave trading ships, boarding them and freeing the slaves. The fleet was known as the West Africa Squadrons.

3. Slaves in the British Caribbean didn't produce cotton as they did in the US. Sugar was the crop of islands like Jamaica and Barbados and the slaves who produced it were the world's first industrial workers.

4. The campaign to end slavery was dominated by women. With no vote, the anti-slavery crusade was one of the ways that women were able to get involved in politics.

5. Thousands of black slaves were brought to Britain by slave ships. In the 18th Century it was the height of fashion for rich ladies to have a black child servant.

6. Slave-produced sugar transformed our national cuisine. Much of what we today think of as the most traditional British food, is in fact only a couple of centuries old. Biscuits, cakes, sweets, toffee, rum and the resulting British sweet tooth - all products of that revolution in the kitchen brought about by sugar. Slave sugar was the missing ingredient that transformed tea from a strange novelty from India into an enduring national obsession.

7. Slavery was the world's first global industry but before globalism and corporations it was actually run by a few hundred families. Today many of the great aristocratic families of Britain have a hidden past in the slave trade.

8. Slavery in the British empire came to an end after a rebellion led by the Jamaican slave Sam Sharpe. Sharpe's original plan was to use non-violent passive resistance to end slavery. He was the Martin Luther King of the 19th Century.

9. The abolitionists were pioneers who helped invent the methods of political campaigning that we have today. They collected mass petitions, organised hundreds of local societies , created a campaign logo and even organised consumer boycotts.

10. Not all black people in the Caribbean were slaves. Not only were there free black people, there were also an army of escaped slaves called the Maroons who fought against the British Army for years.

Thats what I thought as well. I was watching the news this morning, and lo and behold, what should appear opening the door with a yassuh and mind dah step suh, but a black security guard acting like his was the greateast priviledge in Britain. It just struck me, considering the posts lately, that all was needed was a change in uniform and it could be the deep south! prior to 1860 of course.

Didn't see the relevant news bit, I'm afraid. Hmm. Would you have reacted the same way if the security guard had been white and behaved in an identical fashion?

Not having a dig - just wondering whether your knowledge of the Deep South before 1860 is colouring your perception in this case?

Equal opportunity. The bloke applied for the job and is paid probably very well to do it. It would have been discriminatory to deny him the job on account of the fact he might open up racist memories.

I know what Raven means though, Clodhopper. I remember being taken round a plantation house in Louisiana by an African American guide. She was so totally in charge and bossy with us straggling white visitors that I couldn't help but think of other times. Odd feeling. Like finding yourself inside a stereotype.

I know what Raven means though, Clodhopper. I remember being taken round a plantation house in Louisiana by an African American guide. She was so totally in charge and bossy with us straggling white visitors that I couldn't help but think of other times. Odd feeling. Like finding yourself inside a stereotype.


A most interesting feeling, I would imagine.

Raven: I've been thinking about the issue of stereotyping and race a bit.

There's a tv programme called "Trace the Ancestors" or something similar. I've seen a few. Idea is a celeb traces the family back and you get some amazing stories of life at the time of the great great grandparents.

One off the minor celebs was Jan Leeming, a very beautiful and elegant black lady with a cut glass accent who traced back to West Indian slaves and there was this incredible story of how they were freed and made successes of their lives through immense drive and courage. Within two generations of possessing nothing but a single name (Sam, or John, or Mary) they were lawyers and teachers and doctors.

The point is that I just don't have a stereotype of black people as subservient. Back in the 70s and early 80s when there was really bad discrimination and rioting black people might be seen as scary, but never subservient. In terms of social history it is a fascinating period with all sorts of odd things going on.



At the same time, there is the tradition of service as in what might be called the butler stereotype which is seen as thoroughly respectable.

Might this explain how the same incident could be viewed in different ways? Your cultural associations were jarred by a black man holding doors because it was demeaning, whereas to me it sounds like a bloke acting in the best traditions of respectable service? Working at No 10 Downing Street in any capacity gets you a lot of respect... (Well, unless you are the PM, of course! )

Edit: Oh - and so obvious I looked right past it: Although there have been black people here since the C17th the numbers were tiny. We've only had large numbers of black people actually HERE since the 1950s. Attitudes were not as hard set, I would guess. In the Southern US it's very different, I would imagine? chuckle. There's a whole article here somewhere, I think.

It wasn't my own stereotyping I was entering, but some kind of imprinted atavistic memory of stereotyping - which probably makes no sense at all. A literary thing perhaps.

Clodhopper;1280354 wrote: Didn't see the relevant news bit, I'm afraid. Hmm. Would you have reacted the same way if the security guard had been white and behaved in an identical fashion?



Not having a dig - just wondering whether your knowledge of the Deep South before 1860 is colouring your perception in this case?
Funny enough, if the bloke had been white, I would have laughed as that is yet another stereotype. The 'english butler in tails'.

And it was the manner of how it was carried out that reminded me of pre-1860 in the first place. However, if I had no knowledge of pre civil war slavery, I probably would not have noticed a thing.

Clodhopper;1280640 wrote: A most interesting feeling, I would imagine.



Raven: I've been thinking about the issue of stereotyping and race a bit.



There's a tv programme called "Trace the Ancestors" or something similar. I've seen a few. Idea is a celeb traces the family back and you get some amazing stories of life at the time of the great great grandparents.



One off the minor celebs was Jan Leeming, a very beautiful and elegant black lady with a cut glass accent who traced back to West Indian slaves and there was this incredible story of how they were freed and made successes of their lives through immense drive and courage. Within two generations of possessing nothing but a single name (Sam, or John, or Mary) they were lawyers and teachers and doctors.



The point is that I just don't have a stereotype of black people as subservient. Back in the 70s and early 80s when there was really bad discrimination and rioting black people might be seen as scary, but never subservient.



At the same time, there is the tradition of service as in what might be called the butler stereotype which is seen as thoroughly respectable.



Might this explain how the same incident could be viewed in different ways? Your cultural associations were jarred by a black man holding doors because it was demeaning, whereas to me it sounds like a bloke acting in the best traditions of respectable service? Working at No 10 Downing Street in any capacity gets you a lot of respect... (Well, unless you are the PM, of course! )



Edit: Oh - and so obvious I looked right past it: Although there have been black people here since the C17th the numbers were tiny. We've only had large numbers of black people actually HERE since the 1950s. Attitudes were not as hard set, I would guess. In the Southern US it's very different, I would imagine? chuckle. There's a whole article here somewhere, I think.
Well you wouldnt have! (stereotypes) Britain had abolished slavery here loooooooong before they actually stopped trading in slaves! The population on this island could feel good and superior in their distaste of American slavery unknowing that it is they who were supplying the slaves.

AussiePam;1280399 wrote: Equal opportunity. The bloke applied for the job and is paid probably very well to do it. It would have been discriminatory to deny him the job on account of the fact he might open up racist memories.



I know what Raven means though, Clodhopper. I remember being taken round a plantation house in Louisiana by an African American guide. She was so totally in charge and bossy with us straggling white visitors that I couldn't help but think of other times. Odd feeling. Like finding yourself inside a stereotype.
She was probably thinking about her great grandmother, or grandmother even, that was a slave on a plantation like that.

And being trapped inside a stereotype is an incredible analogy! You could write a book about something like that! Dang! Bad acid trip!

Yes. Sorry, I'm really not having a go.

And I know half our Western cities were built on slave money before 1807. We don't have a moral high ground and I'm not claiming one.

But the differences fascinate me. Consider the Aussie KFC advert that Fuzzy posted about. The Aussies weren't intending to upset anyone. To them it was a bit of fun. But I've no doubt the shock and outrage expressed in the US was quite real.

Brits do keep tripping over this one. Back in WW2 Montgomery was doing morale boosting visits all over the place in the nerve wracking build up before D-Day. Even to American units. This didn't always work out so well. You know by now there's a North South rivalry in England, I'd guess? It can be used to stimulate a healthy competitiveness in team situations like an Army training, and knowing the US also had a North/South divide Monty asked the men whether Northerners or Southerners made the better soldiers....

....after a stunned silence, apparently this voice came from the crowd, saying, "What the hell are you trying to do? Restart the Civil War?"

Clodhopper;1280654 wrote: Yes. Sorry, I'm really not having a go.



And I know half our Western cities were built on slave money before 1807. We don't have a moral high ground and I'm not claiming one.



But the differences fascinate me. Consider the Aussie KFC advert that Fuzzy posted about. The Aussies weren't intending to upset anyone. To them it was a bit of fun. But I've no doubt the shock and outrage expressed in the US was quite real.



Brits do keep tripping over this one. Back in WW2 Montgomery was doing morale boosting visits all over the place in the nerve wracking build up before D-Day. Even to American units. This didn't always work out so well. You know by now there's a North South rivalry in England, I'd guess? It can be used to stimulate a healthy competitiveness in team situations like an Army training, and knowing the US also had a North/South divide Monty asked the men whether Northerners or Southerners made the better soldiers....



....after a stunned silence, apparently this voice came from the crowd, saying, "What the hell are you trying to do? Restart the Civil War?"
LOL! I can well imagine! Aw hunny, I know you are not having a go. And you are asking some really good questions that need considering. The only comparison I can make for you is the roundheads and cavaliers fighting over roman catholicism vs. protestants only the North and South fighting over slavery. Slavery was like a religion in the foracity that the South sought to preserve it. To them it was as big as a way of life. To them, people were listed below livestock in their insurance policies. Slaves were not people. but a commodity. Equipment just like a tractor.