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Arrest the Pope?



Pope arrest plot | The Sun |News

Why not? Are you suggesting the pope and the catholic church should be above the law? Any other organisation and there would be no question that he should face charges so unless for any reason he is above the law if there is enough evidence of deliberate covering up of a crime then why not arrest him? It makes a mockery of the law if he isn't.

Slightly less hysterical version

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... anity.html

It emerged this weekend that in 1985 when he was in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which deals with sex abuse cases, the pope signed a letter arguing that the “good of the universal church” should be considered against the defrocking of an American priest who committed sex offences against two boys.


This is a man whose first instinct when his priests are caught with their pants down is to cover up the scandal and damn the young victims to silence," Dawkins, who wrote The God Delusion, said.

“This man is not above or outside the law. The institutionalised concealment of child rape is a crime under any law and demands not private ceremonies of repentance or church-funded payoffs, but justice and punishment

gmc;1303277 wrote: Why not? Are you suggesting the pope and the catholic church should be above the law? Any other organisation and there would be no question that he should face charges so unless for any reason he is above the law if there is enough evidence of deliberate covering up of a crime then why not arrest him? It makes a mockery of the law if he isn't.

Slightly less hysterical version

Richard Dawkins planning to have Pope Benedict arrested over 'crimes against humanity' - Telegraph


I'm not suggesting anything, in fact, I think it's a hell of a good idea. Arrest him, book him and put him in stocks.

Certainly should hold the organization and its leadership accountable for covering up illegal activity by its "employees"

I thought the Pope already dealt with this years ago?

Pope Benedict infallible? So the Vatican would like us to believe | World news | The Guardian



There would apparently be a possibility for a resignation. An arrest is doubtful.

I don't know what this has got to do with atheists, militant or otherwise. Or with religion for that matter, or lack of it.

Where a crime is committed, those responsible should be accountable, no matter who they are. For crime, read anything against the law of the land, or applicable international law.

fuzzywuzzy;1303299 wrote: I thought the Pope already dealt with this years ago?Masturbation is not a solution.

AussiePam;1303319 wrote: I don't know what this has got to do with atheists, militant or otherwise. Or with religion for that matter, or lack of it.

Where a crime is committed, those responsible should be accountable, no matter who they are. For crime, read anything against the law of the land, or applicable international law.


I like Richard Dawkins and he is one of the proponents of taking action against the Pope. He is what I would call a Militant Atheist. If you read the article it mentions Dawkins.

fuzzywuzzy;1303299 wrote: I thought the Pope already dealt with this years ago?


He denied any involvement - new evidence has come to light showing his denial to be incorrect and so it goes on.

Lon;1303334 wrote: I like Richard Dawkins and he is one of the proponents of taking action against the Pope. He is what I would call a Militant Atheist.


His recent visit to Sydney has prompted here similar sorts of discussions to those currently happening in Forum Garden.

I find I agree with many of the things he says concerning evils committed in the name of religions, and some of the Monty Pythonesqueness of some religious trappings.

He certainly fulminates and came across as completely joyless, absolutely lacking in any sense of humour and generally apoplectic. An old school fire and brimstone preacher. Only his religion is Atheism.

Ahso!;1303322 wrote: Masturbation is not a solution.
:yh_rotfl I just had to acknowledge that this post was funny funny funny..

I think the pope is considered a head of state. I don't know that he can be arrested.

flopstock;1303500 wrote: I think the pope is considered a head of state. I don't know that he can be arrested.Bush #1 did it to Noriega. Sounds like precedence to me.

Ahso!;1303502 wrote: Bush #1 did it to Noriega. Sounds like precedence to me.




Nope

Arresting the pope might touch off a religeous war of sorts. Might thin out atheists a bit. That couldn't hurt.

hoppy;1303591 wrote: Arresting the pope might touch off a religeous war of sorts. Might thin out atheists a bit. That couldn't hurt.


What's to fear from atheists? Reality?

Lon;1303592 wrote: What's to fear from atheists? Reality?


I'm merely responding with what could happen should your "militant atheists" arrest the pope.

hoppy;1303634 wrote: I'm merely responding with what could happen should your "militant atheists" arrest the pope.


Are you kidding? All the protestants would laugh themselves silly. We used to burn catholics alive in this country you know. Every fifth of November we burn one in effigy and set off fireworks to remember how much we enjoyed doing so.

gmc;1303640 wrote: Are you kidding? All the protestants would laugh themselves silly. We used to burn catholics alive in this country you know. Every fifth of November we burn one in effigy and set off fireworks to remember how much we enjoyed doing so.


Maybe in your country. Do some of you still believe the earth is flat? Anyway, catholicism is the predominate religion in a number of countries. And, the thread concerned "militant atheists". Are you silly enough to think christians, on seeing the pope arrested, would not eventually get the idea their church could be next? It would be interesting to see who gets burned then.:wah:

hoppy;1303641 wrote: Maybe in your country. Do some of you still believe the earth is flat? Anyway, catholicism is the predominate religion in a number of countries. And, the thread concerned "militant atheists". Are you silly enough to think christians, on seeing the pope arrested, would not eventually get the idea their church could be next? It would be interesting to see who gets burned then.:wah:


I would have thought they had that worry after waco. I did say we used to do it and now just use an effigy. Guy Fawkes night is to remember why we felt the need to do so. Are you seriously suggesting that a religious leader should be above the law because it might upset his followers? Incidentally Catholicism is not the predominant religion in the UK and the arrest would be to stand trial in a European court. I suspect the majority would think it only right.

hoppy;1303591 wrote: Arresting the pope might touch off a religeous war of sorts. Might thin out atheists a bit. That couldn't hurt.


I don't think it would, really. 40 or 50 years ago, maybe. But we've been through too much scandal to take up arms for these men. I think it is more like politics now- our own local guy is the only one who we still trust- until we discover we shouldn't have. and we know all the guys higher up are no good and simply covering up for each other, just like the politicians do.

gmc;1303642 wrote: I would have thought they had that worry after waco. I did say we used to do it and now just use an effigy. Guy Fawkes night is to remember why we felt the need to do so. Are you seriously suggesting that a religious leader should be above the law because it might upset his followers? Incidentally Catholicism is not the predominant religion in the UK and the arrest would be to stand trial in a European court. I suspect the majority would think it only right.


Catholicism may not be the predominate religion and not the only sect molesting children, but christianity is, I'll wager. I'm just saying, if you begin taking down religeous leaders, it could easily backfire on you. Being in europe won't keep you safe from retaliation.

flopstock;1303643 wrote: I don't think it would, really. 40 or 50 years ago, maybe. But we've been through too much scandal to take up arms for these men. I think it is more like politics now- our own local guy is the only one who we still trust- until we discover we shouldn't have. and we know all the guys higher up are no good and simply covering up for each other, just like the politicians do.


I'm not so sure. If the pope is arrested and prosecuted, that would send the message that your church may be next. Be it for child abuse, fraud, animal abuse (sacrifice) whatever. Atheists are like liberals. If they get hold of a feather, they want the whole goose. How long do you think those rednecks in the bible belt would hold off before the lead started flying?

I predict that our world WILL see a religeous war, maybe soon.

hoppy;1303671 wrote: I'm not so sure. If the pope is arrested and prosecuted, that would send the message that your church may be next. Be it for child abuse, fraud, animal abuse (sacrifice) whatever. Atheists are like liberals. If they get hold of a feather, they want the whole goose. How long do you think those rednecks in the bible belt would hold off before the lead started flying?

I predict that our world WILL see a religeous war, maybe soon.


The only religious war that I see in the future is with Islam and not just the radical fundamentalists. Too many Catholics are upset over the Pope thing as well as non catholics so I don't see any strife coming from this.

Lon;1303674 wrote: The only religious war that I see in the future is with Islam and not just the radical fundamentalists. Too many Catholics are upset over the Pope thing as well as non catholics so I don't see any strife coming from this.


I hope you are right. At my age, I don't want to have to fight or kill anyone. I just wanna sip a cold brew, flirt with a young gal and remember better days.

Sexual and other abuse of children unfortunately occurs everywhere.

This is about the abuse of some Catholic children by some Catholic priests, and some members of the Catholic hierarchy covering up the abuse, presumably for political reasons.

It's not about religion. Abusing children is absolutely not a tenet of the Christian faith. It's about criminal activity. It's not Catholics versus other Christian denominations, or Christians versus non- Christians, or Christians versus Atheists. It's a criminal matter.

Where the laws of the land are broken, or international law is breached, there are mechanisms for bringing the lawbreakers to justice. I'm on the side of those wishing to see this speedily done. And if it means a big springclean of the whole Catholic bureaucracy, bring it on.

hoppy;1303646 wrote: Catholicism may not be the predominate religion and not the only sect molesting children, but christianity is, I'll wager. I'm just saying, if you begin taking down religeous leaders, it could easily backfire on you. Being in europe won't keep you safe from retaliation.


The whole basis of the dispute between catholic and protestant is whether they or the other are "proper" christians. This being basically a protestant nation very few are going to be upset if the pope gets arrested - he's irrelevant to most people and what he's accused of and what priests have done offends even the staunchest Catholics. Quite frankly taking down a religious leader is no big deal and him being a pope shouldn't alter that. If he has any integrity he will resign at the very least. If he doesn't the I suspect the number of Catholics and the influence of the catholic church will diminish. Good thing too as they try and interfere in things that are none of their concern.

Maybe it's you being American but you seem to be afraid of the religious. Over here christian fundamentalists are a lunatic fringe and they don't have guns.

gmc;1303756 wrote: The whole basis of the dispute between catholic and protestant is whether they or the other are "proper" christians. This being basically a protestant nation very few are going to be upset if the pope gets arrested - he's irrelevant to most people and what he's accused of and what priests have done offends even the staunchest Catholics. Quite frankly taking down a religious leader is no big deal and him being a pope shouldn't alter that. If he has any integrity he will resign at the very least. If he doesn't the I suspect the number of Catholics and the influence of the catholic church will diminish. Good thing too as they try and interfere in things that are none of their concern.

Maybe it's you being American but you seem to be afraid of the religious. Over here christian fundamentalists are a lunatic fringe and they don't have guns.


There ya go again, hinting that Americans are armed cowards.

hoppy;1303771 wrote: There ya go again, hinting that Americans are armed cowards.


No. Armed and paranoid perhaps. Why are you so worried about the religious right?

Arresting the pope might touch off a religeous war of sorts. Might thin out atheists a bit. That couldn't hurt.


Are you silly enough to think christians, on seeing the pope arrested, would not eventually get the idea their church could be next? It would be interesting to see who gets burned then




I'm just saying, if you begin taking down religeous leaders, it could easily backfire on you. Being in europe won't keep you safe from retaliation


How long do you think those rednecks in the bible belt would hold off before the lead started flying?

I predict that our world WILL see a religeous war, maybe soon.


At my age, I don't want to have to fight or kill anyone. I just wanna sip a cold brew, flirt with a young gal and remember better days.




This might surprise you but being in europe rednecks in the bible belt of america are a fascinating cultural aberration but only of any consequence in so far as they effect american foreign policy. A paranoid bible thumper with a god complex and nuclear weapons and the belief that the end of times is near is worrying only in so far as they might do something to make it happen - like become president and start a war. There have been more christian terrorist attacks in america than there have muslim - just not in a grand scale. If some of them get a nuke do you think they will use it? If sarah palin becomes president maybe the rest of the world will start getting paranoid as well.

I'm not trying to wind you up I'm just curious as to your what you think.

There is no prospect of protestant and catholics banding together if the pope is arrested - at least not in the UK. They would be dancing in the streets in parts of northern ireland and scotland. I think you need to experience sectarianism to understand the hatred.

My understanding is most of the bible belt consists of protestant fundamentalists. In a generation or so a large percentage of the American population will be latino and catholic. Maybe you'll get your religious war then. Whose version of god gets taught in school etc etc. In the european context the protestant/catholic wars were also a fight for freedom from absolute monarchy ordained by god and the creation of a society where the people ruled themselves. Though I sense a cultural void between us hopefully the above will cross the divide.