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So what do the UK members think of this guy? Sorry, I can't remember his first name off the top of my head.

Ahso!;1305669 wrote: So what do the UK members think of this guy? Sorry, I can't remember his first name off the top of my head.


You are not the only one with difficulty remembering his name........even us Brits.

Ahso!;1305669 wrote: So what do the UK members think of this guy? Sorry, I can't remember his first name off the top of my head.


I think he's okay, which is as far as I'll go when it comes to politicians! For me it's much more interesting at this election to see the Liberal Democrats with a higher profile. My parents were always actively involved with the Liberal party when I was growing up and it would be good to see the LDs more strongly represented in the next government.

I think a lot of people are floating voters. Not necessarily aligning themselves permanantly to one party or another. Its why the polls swing from one end of the scale to the other. The stalwarts will never change, they refuse to. They cant see the damage done by 13 years of Blair and Brown and have a short memory when it comes to the damage done by the Tories under Thatcher.

Its easy to persuade the people that the Lib Dems are a wasted vote. Thats what the two main parties want us to believe. They propogate that myth. They seeth at any percieved escalation of popularity by the Lib dems., like they did at the first TV debate.

Personally I'd like to see Vince Cable as Chancellor. He called the recession right, when every body else was contemplating their own navel. The City trust him.

We'll get the usual sound bites...Oooh wish-washy Liberals....Dont sit in the middle of the road, you'll get run over. They're all empty essentially. I see a lot in their Manifesto to be confident about.

Naturally the traditional Labour and Tory voters will see it differently. I'm sure Oscar will :wah:

If the Lib/Dems weren't hell-bent on changing to the Euro, I might be interested. Truth is, that all the three major parties are all the same, only with different names! None of them have a clue how to govern the country. Please don't ask me to list my reasons for saying this as the list is far too long. they're all

Lab/Libdem/Tories, all wearing grey suits, all talking the same rubbish, all promising the same promises which none will keep.

He's a politician, little more needs to be said but it was hilarious watching the media swivel all of their big guns in his direction after he did well in the first debate - forget Brown for a while, lets shoot the pretender down before he gets to be a real threat to our paymasters.

They're all frightened to death, particularly Brown!:yh_rotfl

There are, it seems to me, two types of politician in the UK. There are those who initially badgered a party in the hope of influencing their constituency by being selected as the local candidate, and then there are the professionals aiming for Cabinet office and the top of the greasy pole.

For the last hundred years in the UK there's been a simple recipe for getting into the Cabinet. Negotiate a majority of the couple of dozen people on the selection committee for a constituency that has at least a 20% rock-solid majority for either Labour or Conservative and whose sitting member is close to retirement. So long as you stay out of jail and kowtow to the party whip you're guaranteed a Cabinet seat fifteen years later.

I'm not sure the country benefits from bare-faced personal ambition of the sort that treats public service as a career path. The Brown Camerons have it in spades. By definition, Cleggy doesn't. Nobody alive entered the Liberal Party for reasons of personal ambition.

At the last election labour polled 9.5 million votes and ended up with 356 seats. The lib dems polled 6 just under 6 million and ended up with 52 seats. Only a cpmplete ******** can still argue that is democracy.

If either brown or cameron end up with enough seats to form a government despite the majority of the electorate not voting for them hopefully the clamour for electoral reform will be so loud they can't ignore it.

Brown and Cameron are shitting themselves because for the first time the stranglehold the two main parties have on the UK looks under threat. The tories are making hysterical noises about how a hung parliament will be the end of the world and gordon brown knows he's done for. Labour will be the third party in UK politics blair and he having destroyed the party.

I've always voted for parties that favoured proportional representation because until we get it we don't have democracy. They introduced it for elections to the Scottish parliament and labour lost power and have been wetting themselves ever since.

BBC News - Q&A: Calls to change the UK election voting system

David Cameron recently said of proportional representation: "It doesn't put power in the hands of the people, it puts power in the hands of politicians." He added that first-past-the-post "is a decisive way of changing our government." It looks unlikely that the Tories will hold a referendum on electoral change.


:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Course they won't for the same reason labour won't because NOBODY wants them to govern. We wouldn't have had bloody thatcher or blair and just think how much better off we would have been.

gmc;1305885 wrote: At the last election labour polled 9.5 million votes and ended up with 356 seats. The lib dems polled 6 just under 6 million and ended up with 52 seats. Only a cpmplete ******** can still argue that is democracy.

If either brown or cameron end up with enough seats to form a government despite the majority of the electorate not voting for them hopefully the clamour for electoral reform will be so loud they can't ignore it.

Brown and Cameron are shitting themselves because for the first time the stranglehold the two main parties have on the UK looks under threat. The tories are making hysterical noises about how a hung parliament will be the end of the world and gordon brown knows he's done for. Labour will be the third party in UK politics blair and he having destroyed the party.

I've always voted for parties that favoured proportional representation because until we get it we don't have democracy. They introduced it for elections to the Scottish parliament and labour lost power and have been wetting themselves ever since.

BBC News - Q&A: Calls to change the UK election voting system



:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Course they won't for the same reason labour won't because NOBODY wants them to govern. We wouldn't have had bloody thatcher or blair and just think how much better off we would have been.




I agree ! However, what the heck are the Lib/Dems thinking of when they are trying to push for the Euro instead of the £ FFS! If they change their mind on that, then maybe they stand a chance. Some while ago, even the Germans advised us strongly not to adopt the Euro !

YouTube - Last of the summer wine Why Does Norman Clegg buy Ladies' Elastic Stockings part 6

G#Gill;1305887 wrote: I agree ! However, what the heck are the Lib/Dems thinking of when they are trying to push for the Euro instead of the £ FFS! If they change their mind on that, then maybe they stand a chance. Some while ago, even the Germans advised us strongly not to adopt the Euro !What do you yourself dislike about the idea, Gill?

Ahso!;1305891 wrote: What do you yourself dislike about the idea, Gill?


I'm glad someone asked. I've been very good, staying quiet.

A controlled entry into the Euro when the pound was rather stronger would have kept income at a level people have fought to achieve for decades. Big business, on the other hand, would be delighted to wait until one Euro buys rather more than one Pound. That way their labour costs are curbed for the next generation and their profits secured. It's sentimentalists clinging to Sterling over the last twenty years who have made that path inevitable.

spot;1305893 wrote: I'm glad someone asked. I've been very good, staying quiet.

A controlled entry into the Euro when the pound was rather stronger would have kept income at a level people have fought to achieve for decades. Big business, on the other hand, would be delighted to wait until one Euro buys rather more than one Pound. That way their labour costs are curbed for the next generation and their profits secured. It's sentimentalists clinging to Sterling over the last twenty years who have made that path inevitable.


This country has never been keen to adopt a European identity. Certainly not the average man on the streets. There may be pros and cons for joining the Euro but only a competent economist can decide for sure. Every time I read a reason why we should adopt the Euro, I find another very good reason why we shouldnt. I dont really have enough knowledge upon which to base a reasoned decision and Economists sit on both sides of the fence.

I'd like to think we should govern our own monetary interest but who am I to say. I'm just an ordinary bloke in the street

Snowfire;1305904 wrote: This country has never been keen to adopt a European identity. Certainly not the average man on the streets. There may be pros and cons for joining the Euro but only a competent economist can decide for sure. Every time I read a reason why we should adopt the Euro, I find another very good reason why we shouldnt. I dont really have enough knowledge upon which to base a reasoned decision and Economists sit on both sides of the fence.

I'd like to think we should govern our own monetary interest but who am I to say. I'm just an ordinary bloke in the street


It's got nothing to do with adopting a european identity any more than it is for the french, spanish, italians, greeks, hungarians etc etc. The notion we will cease to be british is a ludicrous one. The brutal reality is we are a trading nation, we can't feed ourselves even and the bulk of our trade is with europe. All those car exports that provide jobs in sunderland and swindon and swansea are to europe. Cleggie is right about the eu, he's just not pandering to a vocal anti eu minority

All that inward investment maggie thatcher was so proud of was only due to our membership of the EEC. We had to go on bended knee to get in and it cost us our fishing industry because we were not in a position to negotiate from strength. If we leave we will just go bankrupt quicker - oh we are bankrupt.

spot;1305893 wrote: I'm glad someone asked. I've been very good, staying quiet.

A controlled entry into the Euro when the pound was rather stronger would have kept income at a level people have fought to achieve for decades. Big business, on the other hand, would be delighted to wait until one Euro buys rather more than one Pound. That way their labour costs are curbed for the next generation and their profits secured. It's sentimentalists clinging to Sterling over the last twenty years who have made that path inevitable.


What Snowfire said, plus the fact that the pound sterling has been respected the world over, even if it is not so brilliant at the moment. And yes, a certain amount of sentimentality is involved (by me at any rate). It just seems that everything that is British is being slowly but surely removed!

Snowfire;1305904 wrote: This country has never been keen to adopt a European identity. Certainly not the average man on the streets. There may be pros and cons for joining the Euro but only a competent economist can decide for sure. Every time I read a reason why we should adopt the Euro, I find another very good reason why we shouldnt. I dont really have enough knowledge upon which to base a reasoned decision and Economists sit on both sides of the fence.

I'd like to think we should govern our own monetary interest but who am I to say. I'm just an ordinary bloke in the street


Well, this ordinary blokess in the street still misses pounds, shillings and pence! She can't be rushed into anything else quite so soon :-2

gmc;1305906 wrote: It's got nothing to do with adopting a european identity any more than it is for the french, spanish, italians, greeks, hungarians etc etc. The notion we will cease to be british is a ludicrous one. The brutal reality is we are a trading nation, we can't feed ourselves even and the bulk of our trade is with europe. All those car exports that provide jobs in sunderland and swindon and swansea are to europe. Cleggie is right about the eu, he's just not pandering to a vocal anti eu minority

All that inward investment maggie thatcher was so proud of was only due to our membership of the EEC. We had to go on bended knee to get in and it cost us our fishing industry because we were not in a position to negotiate from strength. If we leave we will just go bankrupt quicker - oh we are bankrupt.


But that's just the whole point. Why should I trust your judgment over someone elses.I've had my head turned round so many times I feel like a chameleon

Reasons why not ;

1. Loss of Independent Monetary Policy

2. Difficulty in getting out of a recession.

3. Sensitivity to interest Rates.

4. Loss of independence of Fiscal Policy.

According to this particular Economist

Economics Essays: Why the UK will never join the EURO.

theia;1305909 wrote: Well, this ordinary blokess in the street still misses pounds, shillings and pence! She can't be rushed into anything else quite so soon :-2


My Dad never did get his head round decimalisation and working things out in a base of 10. Could always add up his pounds shillings and pence though. I dont think I could get my head round that any more

The alternative view is to reduce the Westminster level of government to a purely English equivalent of the Welsh and Scottish assembies and Stormont. I'd be all in favour of that. Equivalent regionality within a framework of governance led from Strasbourg, to which we elect representatives. What we have at present is Sterling and an outrageous foreign policy. Giving up the latter at the cost of the former is well worth while. Just look at the complete destructive mess UK foreign policy has created worldwide since the start of the fifties.

Snowfire;1305904 wrote: This country has never been keen to adopt a European identity. Certainly not the average man on the streets. There may be pros and cons for joining the Euro but only a competent economist can decide for sure. Every time I read a reason why we should adopt the Euro, I find another very good reason why we shouldnt. I dont really have enough knowledge upon which to base a reasoned decision and Economists sit on both sides of the fence.

I'd like to think we should govern our own monetary interest but who am I to say. I'm just an ordinary bloke in the streetThis same debate probably took place at some point within your country. Like anything else, economics is easy to understand at its base (which is all that really matters) when its broken down into its simplest form.

Think about what economic life would be like if everyone in the UK were using different currencies. Then consider how advantageous it would be for everyone to agree on just one of those currencies. Any holdout in that scenario would be at a distinct disadvantage. The workers of the holdout would have a more difficult time getting a fair deal on what they thought their money is worth and would have to constantly argue value. It would be more difficult for them to buy things and larger merchants would do the bulk of their business with competitors simply because the currency is not a problem. the holdout would perhaps get some overflow business or if they produced a specialty item, but that wouldn't last very long before someone else filled that niche too.

What I hear Spot saying is thats its an inevitable event and its best to negotiate from a position of strength, meaning when the UK currency is strong. Spot will correct me if I've misunderstood his post.

Ahso!;1305923 wrote: This same debate probably took place at some point within your country. Like anything else, economics is easy to understand at its base (which is all that really matters) when its broken down into its simplest form.

Think about what economic life would be like if everyone in the UK were using different currencies. Then consider how advantageous it would be for everyone to agree on just one of those currencies. Any holdout in that scenario would be at a distinct disadvantage. The workers of the holdout would have a more difficult time getting a fair deal on what they thought their money is worth and would have to constantly argue value. It would be more difficult for them to buy things and larger merchants would do the bulk of their business with competitors simply because the currency is not a problem. the holdout would perhaps get some overflow business or if they produced a specialty item, but that wouldn't last very long before someone else filled that niche too.

What I hear Spot saying is thats its an inevitable event and its best to negotiate from a position of strength, meaning when the UK currency is strong. Spot will correct me if I've misunderstood his post.


Oh I hear what your saying but I dont think its as easy to wrest the pound from the man in the street when the Sterling has been so successful over its history (when not in the hands of thieves like Brown at least). It may be a naive stance but we as a nation are pretty insular. Its a symbol of our identity and I dont think we are willing to let go too easily. I've travelled over Africa and I was almost always asked for Stirling over Euro's. It was obviously worth more to them, thus must be of value to us, as it always has been.

If, as you say, our currency is strong then what would be the necessity in negotiating it away. I was living in Dublin when they went over to the Euro and over night the price of beer went through the roof.

Quelle Horreur ! :wah:

Snowfire;1305926 wrote: Oh I hear what your saying but I dont think its as easy to wrest the pound from the man in the street when the Sterling has been so successful over its history (when not in the hands of thieves like Brown at least). It may be a naive stance but we as a nation are pretty insular. Its a symbol of our identity and I dont think we are willing to let go too easily. I've travelled over Africa and I was almost always asked for Stirling over Euro's. It was obviously worth more to them, thus must be of value to us, as it always has been.

If, as you say, our currency is strong then what would be the necessity in negotiating it away. I was living in Dublin when they went over to the Euro and over night the price of beer went through the roof.

Quelle Horreur ! :wah:I'm not there so I can't relate to the identity argument. i was speaking theoretically.

Is Sterling what your currency is based on...silver? If so it makes sense that would be preferred to people in Africa. I'm guessing the Euro is more like the US dollar in that its based more on supply and demand rather than an actual backing. We used to have the gold standard as you may know.

Ahso!;1305932 wrote: I'm not there so I can't relate to the identity argument. i was speaking theoretically.

Is Sterling what your currency is based on...silver? If so it makes sense that would be preferred to people in Africa. I'm guessing the Euro is more like the US dollar in that its based more on supply and demand rather than an actual backing. We used to have the gold standard as you may know.


I'm using the term Sterling as in British currency not as silver. I have no idea as to whether there is an historical link with the term Sterling/Silver but the british pound is known as Sterling

Pound sterling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks!

theia;1305909 wrote: Well, this ordinary blokess in the street still misses pounds, shillings and pence! She can't be rushed into anything else quite so soon :-2


Having been brought up on the old lsd I cannot understand why anyone would prefer that over decimal currency. Same with package sizes - how many fluid ounces in a pint anyone? As a former retail manager my pet hate was being asked how many hundredweights an 80 litre bag of peat weighed:-5:-5

posted by snowfire

But that's just the whole point. Why should I trust your judgment over someone elses.I've had my head turned round so many times I feel like a chameleon

Reasons why not ;

1. Loss of Independent Monetary Policy

2. Difficulty in getting out of a recession.

3. Sensitivity to interest Rates.

4. Loss of independence of Fiscal Policy.

According to this particular Economist

Economics Essays: Why the UK will never join the EURO.




You shouldn't, form your own opinion. try this link - an economist with a bank is that didn't spot what was happening is in no position to give advice. (your link was to an economist with hsbc)

What are the arguments for and against joining the Euro

Benefits of Joining the Euro Economics Help

posted by ahso

Is Sterling what your currency is based on...silver? If so it makes sense that would be preferred to people in Africa. I'm guessing the Euro is more like the US dollar in that its based more on supply and demand rather than an actual backing. We used to have the gold standard as you may know.


Like the dollar the pound used top be backed by gold reserves, in theory the paper could be redeemed for it's value in gold on demand. We came off the gold standard in 1931 the US in 1971.

System under which a country's currency is exchangeable for a fixed weight of gold on demand at the central bank. It was almost universally applied 1870–1914, but by 1937 no single country was on the full gold standard. Britain abandoned the gold standard in 1931; the USA abandoned it in 1971. Holdings of gold are still retained because it is an internationally recognized commodity, which cannot be legislated upon or manipulated by interested countries.

The gold standard broke down in World War I, and attempted revivals were undermined by the Great Depression. After World War II the par values of the currency units of the International Monetary Fund (which included nearly all members of the United Nations not in the Soviet bloc) were fixed in terms of gold and the US dollar, but by 1976 floating exchange rates (already unofficially operating from 1971) were legalized.


gold standard

Talking of gold reserves, do we have any left or did that tosser Brown clean us out completely. As I understand it, he put it all in a registered envelope and posted to one of them "We'll buy all your Gold" companies that was advertising on the telly. Two ton of ingots, a watch and a couple of chains :rolleyes:

Ahso!;1305923 wrote: .

Think about what economic life would be like if everyone in the UK were using different currencies. Then consider how advantageous it would be for everyone to agree on just one of those currencies. .

.
I notice that you are American ahso. Have you by any chance investigated the monetary cost to this country should we covert to the euro?

Peter Lake;1305977 wrote: I notice that you are American ahso. Have you by any chance investigated the monetary cost to this country should we covert to the euro?No I haven't. But I'm listening.

Ahso!;1305982 wrote: No I haven't. But I'm listening.


Start at billions and work your way upwards. Trouble is not with the costs (which the government woudln't pay, industry would) but with the timescales that they'd expect to achieve it in.

I can see us becoming the sick man of europe again if we're not careful. It's not just greek and Portuguese government bonds that could lose their triple a status the UK might as well.

FT.com / UK / Economy & Trade - Gilts lose triple A lustre for investors

While the big credit ratings agencies – Standard & Poor’s, Moody’s and Fitch – have indicated they are in no hurry to reappraise Britain’s formal rating before an election, they have each indicated that faster action to reduce borrowing is needed for Britain to retain its triple A-rated status.


We are very vulnerable.

Ever calculated the cost of the UK coming out of europe? UKIP and the BNP are living in a cloud cuckoo land if they think we can just survive on our own. Thanks to maggie et al and the insane idea we can survive as a service economy we have little indigenous industry left. If we left the eu bye bye the city of london. It became a financial powerhouse thanks to the UK industrialising first and becoming one of the major economies but you don't have to be in the centre of london any more. If it wasn't for north sea oil we would be in even deeper ****. Too bad it was used to pay for tax cuts and the dole rather than investing in britain.

It's also been mooted that oil be traded in euros rather than dollars. Now if you want to make a mess of the US economy that would be one way to do it. Just think how many countries would be hapy to see that. If the saudis decide to change it could be interesting and they have the US by the proverbials which may be why the fact that the 911 terrorist were saudi arabian gets forgotten. Ot am i being cynical there-3



The pound is just a medium of exchange being sentimental about it is silly. I also remember farthings and halfpenny's and penny sweets are now 20 pence. value the past but don't cling to it.

Spain downgrade puts UK in spotlight


Spain downgrade puts UK in spotlight | News | Money Marketing

Don't say I didn't warn. We give too much power to the money men.

I think he will do ok in the elections next week.