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I'd like to throw this question out there because I am interested in different people's perspective as to what is happening to the direction that the country is heading in. I'm curious to read as many opinions as people are willing to provide here. Do people feel that America is heading downward or upward in terms of the overall status of the country? Regarding the economy, the border situation, the oil spill situation, the different states as a whole, the crime situation, the wars that are currently in place, the education system, the health system, the political spectrum, the Human rights situation, the technology situation, etc.

So I'll try to keep this question as simple as possible when I ask, do people on this board feel like things are getting better in America in all of those areas, or do people feel like things are getting worse?

By the way I'd like to extend this question to people in all parts of the World, even those who haven't ever been to America or who have only read about what's happening to America in newspapers, or seen it on the news, etc. Your opinion is just as important because it will make for a good combination to throw into the mix. So please feel free to comment on this question whether you live in the United States or not.

And there may be those who say, "If you don't live in America how can you form an opinion on it?" Well, all I have to say relating to that argument is, we don't live in Afghanistan or Iraq, and yet all of us I'm sure feel that we can weigh in on what's happening over there with at least a decent sense of scrutiny. So this situation would be no different.

Things are more complicated than ever. We face challenges weve never faced before. Many of the challenges are self induced, for instance the greed and obvious lack of restraint regarding loans that should never have been made. Its turned not only our country but the entire world upside down. Thats a crisis thats being addressed. Its a painfully slow process but corrections are being made to assure it doesnt happen again.

The wars were involved in, Ive never greed with our reasons for being involved, but we are. Also a devastatingly slow and painful process but were moving toward an exit. Eventually they will be finalized and sadly probably not much will have been accomplished sans a personal vendetta to remove Sadaam.

The health system was and is an ugly mess. The drug makers and health providers forced the rising costs to become a front and center issue. We are all NEVER going to agree on a perfect solution. For every person that says lets try something new 5 more will scream socialisism or ___________ ?

Human rights issues...they exist all over the globe and even here in America. We have slave trade, foreign women and children are scooped up and forced to prostitute themselves for the profit of their command. Our depraved citizens eagerly pay to satisfy their lust with no regard for the sanctity of life. As long as humans exist depravity will flourish. The best we can do is deal with each instance as it arises.

Many of the issues we face are monumental and they wont go away overnight. We will never have equality and balance in one 4 year period. The balance comes when the big picture unfolds. If Obama makes a mess it will take the next administration to mop up. After that there will be another uproar and well flip again.

Are things fine? Yes and no. Have they ever been fine.......Ever?

Short and sweet, we have never been in so much trouble, with so little real leadership.

State of Disaster. This just out this morning:

Consumer Confidence Plummets: Down 15% To 52.9, From 62.5 Consensus, 62.7 Prior

Well, I've been on this planet, consciously, for over half a century, and I have been hearing about how we are on the brink of destruction the whole time.

So, perhaps it is the way the species works best. As for "America," it seems to be in a state of change and whether the idea of "America" survives or not, the human spirit will remain the same.

All the polls and statistics are meaningless babble.

LarsMac;1319756 wrote: Well, I've been on this planet, consciously, for over half a century, and I have been hearing about how we are on the brink of destruction the whole time.

So, perhaps it is the way the species works best. As for "America," it seems to be in a state of change and whether the idea of "America" survives or not, the human spirit will remain the same.

All the polls and statistics are meaningless babble.


True...true.

LarsMac;1319756 wrote: Well, I've been on this planet, consciously, for over half a century, and I have been hearing about how we are on the brink of destruction the whole time.

So, perhaps it is the way the species works best. As for "America," it seems to be in a state of change and whether the idea of "America" survives or not, the human spirit will remain the same.

All the polls and statistics are meaningless babble.Thats a common mindset but we are in fact running out of time. The following video is very important to understand. Its in 8 parts and believe me, its worthy the time. Its not a consperacy, just simple arithmatic.

Well, I've been on this planet, in and out of consciousness, for almost half a century. The land we live in bears the name United States of America, and the government claims to uphold our Founders' ideals, but this is not "America". It hasn't been for a long time. The pretender has become a de facto empire as great and terrible as any other in history. Washington DC is housed by prostitutes owned by people protected from personal responsibility or risk of loss by shields of organization, union, or corporation. Eventually they will kill this Golden Goose - she may very well be in her last throes now - and the empire will collapse. Perhaps then we can try again.

Those in a bigger hurry may try to collapse the regime and rescue the Constitution from it's gilded, vacuum-sealed box where it lays forgotten in any practical sense. I honestly would love to see that day come but don't expect it. So I do what I can.

Accountable;1319775 wrote: Well, I've been on this planet, in and out of consciousness, for almost half a century. The land we live in bears the name United States of America, and the government claims to uphold our Founders' ideals, but this is not "America". It hasn't been for a long time. The pretender has become a de facto empire as great and terrible as any other in history. Washington DC is housed by prostitutes owned by people protected from personal responsibility or risk of loss by shields of organization, union, or corporation. Eventually they will kill this Golden Goose - she may very well be in her last throes now - and the empire will collapse. Perhaps then we can try again.

Those in a bigger hurry may try to collapse the regime and rescue the Constitution from it's gilded, vacuum-sealed box where it lays forgotten in any practical sense. I honestly would love to see that day come but don't expect it. So I do what I can.


I am sorry to say that I think what you say is true and it makes me sad for America. And frightened.

Change always come from below and there are signs the american people are getting fed up with the way things are being done in their name. Biggest worry was that the states was going to take a massive lurch to the right but when it comes right down to it the liberal traditions are too strong I think. The political institutions should be able to stand the winds of change because they can adapt. In the long run I think things will work out for the better - they always do. Economic success isn't a given and no one owes you a living but it seems you are learning that. Monetarism has fallen in a hole of it's own making so maybe you will now go back to proper capitalism and forget the nonsense. You had George Bush, we had Gordon Brown now that would have depressed anyone - well it did me. At least GW was funny. they're gone now - passing rats turds in the sewer of life. A footnote in text books about the worst leaders in history. Don't know why you are all so depressed.

What happened to that irritating self confidence and belief that the USA was the place to be. You're not getting to come back here you know - the space has been filled with pakis and east europeans. At least that's what the daily mail says.

We live in interesting times do we not? The USA are in the world cup and England isn't. That's funny. I mean the world cup where the whole of the world competes at a sport not that strange thing you call the world series where you play with yourselves. That's always seemed a bit unhealthy to me.

gmc;1319804 wrote: Economic success isn't a given and no one owes you a living but it seems you are learning that. Monetarism has fallen in a hole of it's own making so maybe you will now go back to proper capitalism and forget the nonsense. You had George Bush, we had Gordon Brown now that would have depressed anyone - well it did me. At least GW was funny. they're gone now - passing rats turds in the sewer of life. A footnote in text books about the worst leaders in history. Don't know why you are all so depressed.Because this guy that's taken over behind Bush is worse by miles when it comes to the economy, and he has a supermajority in the legislature supporting him. At a time when even Europe is realizing that gov't can't take care of everything and is trimming back (a little) on their nanny programs, Obama is telling them they should spend even more. I truly believe he and whoever is hiding behind his curtain are hellbent to collapse the economy, destroy the republic, and replace it with his (their) brand of _________ism.

gmc wrote: What happened to that irritating self confidence and belief that the USA was the place to be. You're not getting to come back here you know - the space has been filled with pakis and east europeans. At least that's what the daily mail says. :wah: It's still the best place to be. It's still the last best hope of individual liberty and self-determination. I believe that even now.

gmc wrote: We live in interesting times do we not? The USA are in the world cup and England isn't. That's funny. I mean the world cup where the whole of the world competes at a sport not that strange thing you call the world series where you play with yourselves. That's always seemed a bit unhealthy to me.Are we still in the fight? Well whadayaknow. :-2

Accountable;1319810 wrote: Because this guy that's taken over behind Bush is worse by miles when it comes to the economy, and he has a supermajority in the legislature supporting him. At a time when even Europe is realizing that gov't can't take care of everything and is trimming back (a little) on their nanny programs, Obama is telling them they should spend even more. I truly believe he and whoever is hiding behind his curtain are hellbent to collapse the economy, destroy the republic, and replace it with his (their) brand of _________ism.What do you think should be done regarding the economy?

posted by accountable

Because this guy that's taken over behind Bush is worse by miles when it comes to the economy, and he has a supermajority in the legislature supporting him. At a time when even Europe is realizing that gov't can't take care of everything and is trimming back (a little) on their nanny programs, Obama is telling them they should spend even more. I truly believe he and whoever is hiding behind his curtain are hellbent to collapse the economy, destroy the republic, and replace it with his (their) brand of _________ism.


The state of your economy is hardly his fault. Blame reagan and daft right wing economic theories. You have a corporatist economy and that is a recipe for disaster.

Ahso!;1319813 wrote: What do you think should be done regarding the economy?Something that I don't think has been done since before the Industrial Revolution: the gov't should get the hell out of it. Market forces are powerful and balanced. Gov't manipulations just screw things up.

gmc;1319819 wrote: The state of your economy is hardly his fault. Blame reagan and daft right wing economic theories. You have a corporatist economy and that is a recipe for disaster.
I'm not saying Obama started it, and you'll have to go way before Reagan to find the root, but I am saying that Obama's trying to bring it down rather than control or sustain it. That's different than his predecessors.

Accountable;1319823 wrote: Something that I don't think has been done since before the Industrial Revolution: the gov't should get the hell out of it. Market forces are powerful and balanced. Gov't manipulations just screw things up.Then why do market forces use the government? I Have the impression that corporations are the government incognito.



Accountable;1319823 wrote: I'm not saying Obama started it, and you'll have to go way before Reagan to find the root, but I am saying that Obama's trying to bring it down rather than control or sustain it. That's different than his predecessors.Even Carter?

If I understand what you're saying then, you believe Obama's predecessors did good. How then did it get all f@#*ked up?

Ahso!;1319831 wrote: Then why do market forces use the government? I Have the impression that corporations are the government incognito.Market forces don't use the government. Forces are forces. Rich businessmen purchase politicians to change the rules in their own favor. The last thing they want is the balance of natural market forces.



Ahso! wrote: Even Carter?

If I understand what you're saying then, you believe Obama's predecessors did good. How then did it get all f@#*ked up?Even Carter what? I never said, meant, or implied that everyone before Obama "did good" when it comes to the economy, only that Obama doesn't bear all the blame.

But we need to get off this obsession with the economy and start focusing on liberty. What good is it to be rich in a gilded cage?

Accountable;1319835 wrote: Market forces don't use the government. Forces are forces. Rich businessmen purchase politicians to change the rules in their own favor. The last thing they want is the balance of natural market forces.



Even Carter what? I never said, meant, or implied that everyone before Obama "did good" when it comes to the economy, only that Obama doesn't bear all the blame.

But we need to get off this obsession with the economy and start focusing on liberty. What good is it to be rich in a gilded cage?I think I recall you saying "this guy is worse than Bush by miles when it comes to the economy." I then asked you how you would handle the economy, to which you replied rather vaguely, mumbling something about the industrial revolution and government impeding on the rights of corporations. When pressed further you wanted to change the subject to liberty.

I'll try again.

What would you do regarding the economy if you were in Obama's place? Would you continue the Bush policy?

Ahso!;1319813 wrote: What do you think should be done regarding the economy?


Ahso!;1319837 wrote: I think I recall you saying "this guy is worse than Bush by miles when it comes to the economy." I then asked you how you would handle the economy, to which you replied rather vaguely, mumbling something about the industrial revolution and government impeding on the rights of corporations. When pressed further you wanted to change the subject to liberty.

I'll try again.

What would you do regarding the economy if you were in Obama's place? Would you continue the Bush policy?
Find someone else to insult. When you're up for conversation without condescension, lemme know.

Accountable;1319853 wrote: Find someone else to insult. When you're up for conversation without condescension, lemme know.So its okay for you to insult and condescend toward Obama since hes not here to defend himself but when someone else challenges you, you resort to becoming the victim?



Why don't you just say something constructive instead of tea-bagging or Palinizing others. All you need to do is step up.

Just a random thought:

I had to spend the last month or so on the road, and left my house uninhabited for the time. A friend came around to check and make certain it didn't burn down, or get carried off.

I had left my favorite coffee cup sitting on my desk, with a bit of coffee in it.

When I returned, I found that several colonies of mold had taken up residence on the surface of the residual coffee in my cup.

It seems that each colony began in a certain area, and when they had all grown to the point that they met, they seemed to clog up the surface of the coffee and begun to compete for the remaining surface area. After they had consumed the coffee at the surface, and presumably used up available oxygen there, or whatever they were feeding on was depleted, they the shriveled and ceased to grow.

I disposed of the whole mess by flushing it down the drain.

The human condition is very similar. at some point, all these "colonies" will deplete the available resources, and perish.

Unless, we learn to be humans instead of Americans, and Asians and Europeans and whatever other labels we wish to hang on to, and learn to stop competing for the resources and learn to share and manage them is some form of sustainable manner, we shall all be flushed together.

The only difference might be which nation gets to squander the final consumable piece of the planet in peace.

None of the politico-economic wrestling will mean squat in another century or two.

I Remember back in the sixties one US General said that when the final war took place and the end of the world was upon us, he wanted to make damn sure the last humans to take a breath would be American.

Somehow, I just don't think that will matter all that much.

posted by accountable

Something that I don't think has been done since before the Industrial Revolution: the gov't should get the hell out of it. Market forces are powerful and balanced. Gov't manipulations just screw things up.


Actually the concept of free market economies were a product of the industrial revolution and the 18th century enlightenment. The idea that governments didn't control the economy before industrialisation is a fantasy.

The thing is while america is an important part of the world but for most of the world' existence no one knew it was there. The reality is the rest of the world will get by just fine while you sort yourselves out. You're not as bad as you seem to think you are.

I think everyone is struggling as we cope with the end of the Old Order of US vs USSR and face the reality of China, the finite nature of the world's resources, our increasing ability to damage the world's climate and ecosystems, and the apparently endless increase in human population. The USA is doing fairly averagely in dealing with these issues, but then, so are we all. I feel a lot less nervous about the "dark side" of the USA with Obama in charge. Mebbe I'm wrong...

We face dangerous and difficult times. But so did our parents, grandparents, great-grandparents and so on. There is always hope, and one of the things I'm hoping for is amazing American technology that will help with some of the issues. Fusion would be nice...

Simply removing GWBush as President has made America a better place, imo.

gmc;1319869 wrote: Actually the concept of free market economies were a product of the industrial revolution and the 18th century enlightenment. The idea that governments didn't control the economy before industrialisation is a fantasy.

The thing is while america is an important part of the world but for most of the world' existence no one knew it was there. The reality is the rest of the world will get by just fine while you sort yourselves out. You're not as bad as you seem to think you are.I was being America-centric about our economy, but I agree with your last paragraph. If we could refocus on being a bastion of liberty rather than the economic & military superpower empire that we've become, it would be better for everyone.