Some call it the greatest story ever told, and do not believe it. Many copycat storys have sprung up in many other avenues. Astrology has duped it, pagan religions have duplicated it, and hardcore haters have perverted it, but its still the greatest story ever told. God is ingrained into the pathology of the world, there simply is no doubt about this. Every single generation of humanitys history have considered God in one way or another.
This is great, undeniable power and influence, to have come from a non existant being, so it lends credance to God being real.
And I want to continue on that.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Is God Real?
Word of mouth teachs us about God being real, history teachs us he is real, Archaeology teachs us that God is real, and creation itself teachs us the creator is real. One thing I am showing, is that many things can teach us God is real. The bible shows us God is real, and we need to value this incredible book. It has shown that even coins can reveal its validity.
First century coins of Palestine were made of three metals, -- Gold, Silver and Copper ( Brass). Christ refered to these three varieties when he told his diciples, " Provide neither Gold, nor Silver, Nor Brass in your purses, Matt. 10:9. Many Greek and Roman coins have been discovered and are of importance to the Archaeologist because they preserve for us the likeness of Dignitaries, temples and buildings which have been inscribed on them. Christ used a coin to illustrate Gods love for humans; " Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? Matt. 10:29-31, Farthings are worth about one quarter cent each.
When the Herodians sought to trap Jesus reguarding lawful payment of taxes, they brought him a penny at his request, which contained the image and superscription of Caesar, Matt. 22:15-22. These are Roman coins made of Copper. The Farthing was called " Quadrans" and the penny was called " Denairus." The " Stater" ( a piece of money) Matt. 17:27, was the coin Peter found in the mouth of a fish. It was a Greek coin made of an alloy of Gold mixed with Silver, and was the Temple Tax for Jesus and Peter.
The " Didrachma ( tribute or half shekel), was also a Greek coin, the value of which paied the temple tax for one person, Matt. 17:24. The " Drachma", ( Peice of Silver), was the Greek coin lost by a woman, Luke 15:8. This was worth half the value of the Didrachma. The " Lepton" ( Mite), was a Greek coin made of Copper, the smallest of Palestinian coins, and was worth about one-eight of a cent. A widow gave two mites as Christ observed those who cast their gifts into the treasury, Luke 21:1-4, commonly called " The Widows Mites."
Archaeologist have unearthed thousands of these coins, and they consistantly prove the bibles validity in history.
Peace.
First century coins of Palestine were made of three metals, -- Gold, Silver and Copper ( Brass). Christ refered to these three varieties when he told his diciples, " Provide neither Gold, nor Silver, Nor Brass in your purses, Matt. 10:9. Many Greek and Roman coins have been discovered and are of importance to the Archaeologist because they preserve for us the likeness of Dignitaries, temples and buildings which have been inscribed on them. Christ used a coin to illustrate Gods love for humans; " Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? Matt. 10:29-31, Farthings are worth about one quarter cent each.
When the Herodians sought to trap Jesus reguarding lawful payment of taxes, they brought him a penny at his request, which contained the image and superscription of Caesar, Matt. 22:15-22. These are Roman coins made of Copper. The Farthing was called " Quadrans" and the penny was called " Denairus." The " Stater" ( a piece of money) Matt. 17:27, was the coin Peter found in the mouth of a fish. It was a Greek coin made of an alloy of Gold mixed with Silver, and was the Temple Tax for Jesus and Peter.
The " Didrachma ( tribute or half shekel), was also a Greek coin, the value of which paied the temple tax for one person, Matt. 17:24. The " Drachma", ( Peice of Silver), was the Greek coin lost by a woman, Luke 15:8. This was worth half the value of the Didrachma. The " Lepton" ( Mite), was a Greek coin made of Copper, the smallest of Palestinian coins, and was worth about one-eight of a cent. A widow gave two mites as Christ observed those who cast their gifts into the treasury, Luke 21:1-4, commonly called " The Widows Mites."
Archaeologist have unearthed thousands of these coins, and they consistantly prove the bibles validity in history.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343589 wrote: The bible is not a Christian book, its a book that Christians read. The bible is not " Owned by any religion," and cannot be labeled in the name of any religion. It is for all peoples of the earth.
Peace.
Actually you're wrong there. It doesn't even belong to even just any christian, at least not according to this man.
Pope issues ‘most important document on Scripture since Vatican II’Â |Â CatholicHerald.co.uk
The document, a papal reflection on the conclusions of the 2008 Synod of Bishops on the Word of God, was released at the Vatican today and emphasised the need to improve Catholics’ familiarity with the Bible and the need to read and understand it in harmony with the Church.
The Bible is not a dusty collection of ancient writings addressed only to ancient peoples, he said. But it’s also not some sort of private letter addressed to individuals who are free to interpret it any way they please, the Pope said in the document, which is close to 200 pages long.
For centuries, Catholic laity were actually discouraged from reading the Bible themselves. Even though that began changing 100 years ago, Bible reading often is seen as a Protestant activity.
In fact, some evangelical Christians use passages from the Bible to preach against the Catholic Church, which the Pope said is truly ironic since “the Bible is the Church’s bookâ€.
It was the Church that decided which of the ancient Christian writings were inspired and were to be considered the New Testament, the Pope said. And it was the Church that interpreted it for hundreds of years.
.
Jesus “is the definitive word which God speaks to humanityâ€, the Pope wrote, and “in a world which often feels that God is superfluous or extraneous, we confess with Peter that he alone has ‘the words of eternal life’.â€
The Scriptures themselves teach that God created human beings with a special dignity, giving them intelligence and free will. In approaching the Scriptures, he said, people must use that intelligence to understand what is written.
Not being religious I take the liberty of playing devil's advocate as it were. The biggest problem religion faces is not from non believers, it's from their co religionists.
Peace.
Actually you're wrong there. It doesn't even belong to even just any christian, at least not according to this man.
Pope issues ‘most important document on Scripture since Vatican II’Â |Â CatholicHerald.co.uk
The document, a papal reflection on the conclusions of the 2008 Synod of Bishops on the Word of God, was released at the Vatican today and emphasised the need to improve Catholics’ familiarity with the Bible and the need to read and understand it in harmony with the Church.
The Bible is not a dusty collection of ancient writings addressed only to ancient peoples, he said. But it’s also not some sort of private letter addressed to individuals who are free to interpret it any way they please, the Pope said in the document, which is close to 200 pages long.
For centuries, Catholic laity were actually discouraged from reading the Bible themselves. Even though that began changing 100 years ago, Bible reading often is seen as a Protestant activity.
In fact, some evangelical Christians use passages from the Bible to preach against the Catholic Church, which the Pope said is truly ironic since “the Bible is the Church’s bookâ€.
It was the Church that decided which of the ancient Christian writings were inspired and were to be considered the New Testament, the Pope said. And it was the Church that interpreted it for hundreds of years.
.
Jesus “is the definitive word which God speaks to humanityâ€, the Pope wrote, and “in a world which often feels that God is superfluous or extraneous, we confess with Peter that he alone has ‘the words of eternal life’.â€
The Scriptures themselves teach that God created human beings with a special dignity, giving them intelligence and free will. In approaching the Scriptures, he said, people must use that intelligence to understand what is written.
Not being religious I take the liberty of playing devil's advocate as it were. The biggest problem religion faces is not from non believers, it's from their co religionists.
Is God Real?
We can even trace our history through " Forms of punishment" that were used. One form of punishment practiced by the Greeks and Romans was the tying of milstones around the necks of the condemned and casting them into the sea. Jesus used this in an analogy in Matt. 18:1-6. It dovetails perfectly into our history. Even how Jesus was killed, crucifixion, was an historical form of punishment.
Peace.
Peace.
Is God Real?
In order to determine if God is real, one must divorce yourself of all others opinions, and deal directly with your own consciousness. It is there that this question will be answered. Be convinced by yourself, not others. Have the determining factors within you, not within others. People will mislead you, intentionally or not.
And I want to go into the importance of this.
Peace.
And I want to go into the importance of this.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Its very important, in determing if God is real, for you NOT to take the word of others. Don't listen to people when trying to determine if God is real, its GOT to remain personal, between you and him. Let the source reveal itself. There is no greater way to come to understand that God is real. Once YOU see it, THEN you can consider others experience and understandings.
Peace.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1342803 wrote: is God real? I mean is he really real? Are there ways to know that there is a God? Peace.There’s an ancient way to prove God is real, Mickiel ….... it is called “Faithâ€.
Mickiel;1343414 wrote: This narrow path to Salvation is the Spirit of "Elitism"
Peace.That isn't the Spirit of "elitismâ€, Mickiel , it is the Spirit of "Faithâ€.
bb
Mickiel;1343414 wrote: This narrow path to Salvation is the Spirit of "Elitism"
Peace.That isn't the Spirit of "elitismâ€, Mickiel , it is the Spirit of "Faithâ€.
bb
[FONT=Arial]Just above the clouds
the sun is always shining.
[/FONT]
the sun is always shining.
[/FONT]
Is God Real?
binbag;1343652 wrote: There’s an ancient way to prove God is real, Mickiel ….... it is called “Faith”.
bb
Well faith is a proof of God, yes, I agree. There are so many proofs, I just have not had the time to cover them all. But I will go into Faith soon. It is simular to Hope, in that they both are unseen realities, but realitys all the same. Its another personal proof, the more faith you have, the stronger the proof is to you.
Peace.
bb
Well faith is a proof of God, yes, I agree. There are so many proofs, I just have not had the time to cover them all. But I will go into Faith soon. It is simular to Hope, in that they both are unseen realities, but realitys all the same. Its another personal proof, the more faith you have, the stronger the proof is to you.
Peace.
-
littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Is God Real?
xyz;1343587 wrote: The OT is called the OT because it is a Christian book!
Is God Real?
I see Atheist everywhere I post, trying to discredit belief in God. They push out the lie that God can't be proven, which is hogwash, proving God is very easy to do to yourself. The Atheist agenda demands that they oppose any revelation of God, they are not concerned with God, but they are very concerned with him. This Atheist contridiction is sure proof of God. Their NEED to oppose is evidence of God, thats why they constantly vist religious websites and sections, because of this need!
They need God, they just need to deny him.
And I want to go into that Atheist need, and how it proves God.
Peace.
They need God, they just need to deny him.
And I want to go into that Atheist need, and how it proves God.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Is God real? You have to really define your search and definitions of proof and go over to the unorthodox, because God is unorthodox himself, so the definitions of proof must be along those lines, you just need to expand your consciousness. And Atheist are one of my favorite proofs of God, because they are unorthodox, different in their thinking. Unacceptable to organized doctrines of religion, and I actually like that about them, because so am I. And I think God is that way himself, he does not accept religion. You can see God through Atheism, and it can become more clear to you as you understand this.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Is God Real?
The Atheist mindset is not to accept belief in Gods, thats the oppisite that God needed in his plans. God wanted oppisition to him, but he had none, so he had to create it, in all of its unique forms. He actually wanted that " Pull against him." A friend of mine is a professional weight lifter and tranier, I used to counsel him in detention. He straightened his life out. I asked him once, " Why lift weights to build muscle?" Is there another way? He said the basic way, the fundemental way, is to give your muscle oppisition, and they will grow. And this is what God is doing to humanity, and Atheist are part of that oppisition, they are part of Gods plan to benefit humanity.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
-
littleCJelkton
- Posts: 1215
- Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 pm
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343708 wrote: The Atheist mindset is not to accept belief in Gods, thats the oppisite that God needed in his plans. God wanted oppisition to him, but he had none, so he had to create it, in all of its unique forms. He actually wanted that " Pull against him." A friend of mine is a professional weight lifter and tranier, I used to counsel him in detention. He straightened his life out. I asked him once, " Why lift weights to build muscle?" Is there another way? He said the basic way, the fundemental way, is to give your muscle oppisition, and they will grow. And this is what God is doing to humanity, and Atheist are part of that oppisition, they are part of Gods plan to benefit humanity.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Why would the most powerful, perfect, super, uber, Omni-presence in the universe need to strengthen itself?
If God is trying to better his/her/itself then that must mean God knows he/she/it is not or will not always be the most powerful, or perfect presence in the universe. Which disproves the idea of god.
Dont let this stop you though, please continue to contradict yourself with your seemingly endless spam of post. I would just like to say a person who talks the loudest or the most, is often the one who is usualy wrong, but that person believes by increasing the Volume or the amount of what they say will somehow make something true out of something false.
Note: the bible and many religious books contradict all the time too.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
Why would the most powerful, perfect, super, uber, Omni-presence in the universe need to strengthen itself?
If God is trying to better his/her/itself then that must mean God knows he/she/it is not or will not always be the most powerful, or perfect presence in the universe. Which disproves the idea of god.
Dont let this stop you though, please continue to contradict yourself with your seemingly endless spam of post. I would just like to say a person who talks the loudest or the most, is often the one who is usualy wrong, but that person believes by increasing the Volume or the amount of what they say will somehow make something true out of something false.
Note: the bible and many religious books contradict all the time too.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343708 wrote: The Atheist mindset is not to accept belief in Gods, thats the oppisite that God needed in his plans. God wanted oppisition to him, but he had none, so he had to create it, in all of its unique forms. He actually wanted that " Pull against him." A friend of mine is a professional weight lifter and tranier, I used to counsel him in detention. He straightened his life out. I asked him once, " Why lift weights to build muscle?" Is there another way? He said the basic way, the fundemental way, is to give your muscle oppisition, and they will grow. And this is what God is doing to humanity, and Atheist are part of that oppisition, they are part of Gods plan to benefit humanity.
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
The atheist mindset is to question and having done so many come to the concluscion there is no god. The religious mondset is to belive in god and then spend the rest of the time thanking god they are going to heaven and the rest are not.
If gid is real to you why is that not enough for you?
And I want to go into that.
Peace.
The atheist mindset is to question and having done so many come to the concluscion there is no god. The religious mondset is to belive in god and then spend the rest of the time thanking god they are going to heaven and the rest are not.
If gid is real to you why is that not enough for you?
Is God Real?
littleCJelkton;1343711 wrote: Why would the most powerful, perfect, super, uber, Omni-presence in the universe need to strengthen itself?
If God is trying to better his/her/itself then that must mean God knows he/she/it is not or will not always be the most powerful, or perfect presence in the universe. Which disproves the idea of god.
Dont let this stop you though, please continue to contradict yourself with your seemingly endless spam of post. I would just like to say a person who talks the loudest or the most, is often the one who is usualy wrong, but that person believes by increasing the Volume or the amount of what they say will somehow make something true out of something false.
Note: the bible and many religious books contradict all the time too.
You didnot read my post correctly, common in Atheist. I didnot say God was building himself up, I said he was building humanity, using his unique ways to bring about growth in us. If your going to listen, then listen. Don't insinuate things and points I have not made.
Peace.
If God is trying to better his/her/itself then that must mean God knows he/she/it is not or will not always be the most powerful, or perfect presence in the universe. Which disproves the idea of god.
Dont let this stop you though, please continue to contradict yourself with your seemingly endless spam of post. I would just like to say a person who talks the loudest or the most, is often the one who is usualy wrong, but that person believes by increasing the Volume or the amount of what they say will somehow make something true out of something false.
Note: the bible and many religious books contradict all the time too.
You didnot read my post correctly, common in Atheist. I didnot say God was building himself up, I said he was building humanity, using his unique ways to bring about growth in us. If your going to listen, then listen. Don't insinuate things and points I have not made.
Peace.
Is God Real?
gmc;1343712 wrote: The atheist mindset is to question and having done so many come to the concluscion there is no god. The religious mondset is to belive in god and then spend the rest of the time thanking god they are going to heaven and the rest are not.
If gid is real to you why is that not enough for you?
Its more than enough for me, and the God I believe in will allow all of humanity in Heaven, nobody gets left out. In my conclusion, there is a God, and he is using Atheist to accomplish his unstoppable will. As well as Theist. God is using everything to bring about everything. But the way he uses Atheist is unique, in my view. And I want to continue on that.
Peace.
If gid is real to you why is that not enough for you?
Its more than enough for me, and the God I believe in will allow all of humanity in Heaven, nobody gets left out. In my conclusion, there is a God, and he is using Atheist to accomplish his unstoppable will. As well as Theist. God is using everything to bring about everything. But the way he uses Atheist is unique, in my view. And I want to continue on that.
Peace.
-
recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343704 wrote: I see Atheist everywhere I post, trying to discredit belief in God. They push out the lie that God can't be proven, which is hogwash, proving God is very easy to do to yourself.
I see! So, you pose as a moderate with your 'I'm only trying to prove God to myself' claims; while what you are is actually a dogmatic zealot, who doesn't respect the opinions of people who think differently, and shows no interest in learning about others. Your endless spam posts of contrived "proofs" of God are too numerous for any nonbeliever to bother with, since most of us don't have hours upon hours of free time to refute each one of them. And what does it accomplish, when you just fall back to your subjective world of your own personal truth when you are challenged? This sounds like Ray Comfort/Kirk Cameron theology -- proving God is easy, when you already believe God exists!
The Atheist agenda demands that they oppose any revelation of God, they are not concerned with God, but they are very concerned with him. This Atheist contridiction is sure proof of God. Their NEED to oppose is evidence of God, thats why they constantly vist religious websites and sections, because of this need!
There is no atheist agenda! Which you could soon find out if you took the time to read what atheists have to say on the subject. As has been mentioned by others already -- why would atheists be an obsession for you if you were really sure about your own belief in God? It sounds like your own doubts make it necessary to lash out at people who see the world differently. It's not like none of us have had to deal with this before! The only difference is that it usually comes from fundamentalist Christians, rather than some kind of Deist.
They need God, they just need to deny him.
No, we don't need God, and don't need to deny God! And your outrage that others aren't seeing what you see, indicates that you have some inner turmoil that you are just looking at an illusion.
And I want to go into that Atheist need, and how it proves God.
Atheists know what atheists need! This is a further sign that you have no basic respect for our rights to make up our own minds.
I see! So, you pose as a moderate with your 'I'm only trying to prove God to myself' claims; while what you are is actually a dogmatic zealot, who doesn't respect the opinions of people who think differently, and shows no interest in learning about others. Your endless spam posts of contrived "proofs" of God are too numerous for any nonbeliever to bother with, since most of us don't have hours upon hours of free time to refute each one of them. And what does it accomplish, when you just fall back to your subjective world of your own personal truth when you are challenged? This sounds like Ray Comfort/Kirk Cameron theology -- proving God is easy, when you already believe God exists!
The Atheist agenda demands that they oppose any revelation of God, they are not concerned with God, but they are very concerned with him. This Atheist contridiction is sure proof of God. Their NEED to oppose is evidence of God, thats why they constantly vist religious websites and sections, because of this need!
There is no atheist agenda! Which you could soon find out if you took the time to read what atheists have to say on the subject. As has been mentioned by others already -- why would atheists be an obsession for you if you were really sure about your own belief in God? It sounds like your own doubts make it necessary to lash out at people who see the world differently. It's not like none of us have had to deal with this before! The only difference is that it usually comes from fundamentalist Christians, rather than some kind of Deist.
They need God, they just need to deny him.
No, we don't need God, and don't need to deny God! And your outrage that others aren't seeing what you see, indicates that you have some inner turmoil that you are just looking at an illusion.
And I want to go into that Atheist need, and how it proves God.
Atheists know what atheists need! This is a further sign that you have no basic respect for our rights to make up our own minds.
Is God Real?
recovering conservative;1343721 wrote: I see!
Your endless spam posts of contrived "proofs" of God are too numerous for any nonbeliever to bother with, since most of us don't have hours upon hours of free time to refute each one of them.
This is transparent, I see through it. You don't refute them, because you simply cannot, thats just an excuse. I have given the list of proofs, simply refute them one by one, or admit to the inability to do so. What you call spam, I call evidence, that is thus far, unrefuted by any of you. Thats just the simple truth. I have provided pages and pages of why I believe God is real, and I will continue to provide pages more, and I expect they will continue to stand unrefuted.
The thread speaks for itself, all I have gotten is insults on my personage, silliy references to myths, and just a big response of " Nothing." And I expected nothing, so its no surprise to me.
Peace.
Your endless spam posts of contrived "proofs" of God are too numerous for any nonbeliever to bother with, since most of us don't have hours upon hours of free time to refute each one of them.
This is transparent, I see through it. You don't refute them, because you simply cannot, thats just an excuse. I have given the list of proofs, simply refute them one by one, or admit to the inability to do so. What you call spam, I call evidence, that is thus far, unrefuted by any of you. Thats just the simple truth. I have provided pages and pages of why I believe God is real, and I will continue to provide pages more, and I expect they will continue to stand unrefuted.
The thread speaks for itself, all I have gotten is insults on my personage, silliy references to myths, and just a big response of " Nothing." And I expected nothing, so its no surprise to me.
Peace.
-
recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343730 wrote: This is transparent, I see through it. You don't refute them, because you simply cannot, thats just an excuse. I have given the list of proofs, simply refute them one by one, or admit to the inability to do so. What you call spam, I call evidence, that is thus far, unrefuted by any of you. Thats just the simple truth. I have provided pages and pages of why I believe God is real, and I will continue to provide pages more, and I expect they will continue to stand unrefuted.
The thread speaks for itself, all I have gotten is insults on my personage, silliy references to myths, and just a big response of " Nothing." And I expected nothing, so its no surprise to me.
You were the one who started with the insults. Every coincidence you see counts as a proof of God. And like I said before in posts that you didn't respond to -- I don't have a need to prove to you that God doesn't exist. What I don't appreciate is your total lack of respect that I might genuinely see things differently than you do!
No peace!
The thread speaks for itself, all I have gotten is insults on my personage, silliy references to myths, and just a big response of " Nothing." And I expected nothing, so its no surprise to me.
You were the one who started with the insults. Every coincidence you see counts as a proof of God. And like I said before in posts that you didn't respond to -- I don't have a need to prove to you that God doesn't exist. What I don't appreciate is your total lack of respect that I might genuinely see things differently than you do!
No peace!
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343718 wrote: Its more than enough for me, and the God I believe in will allow all of humanity in Heaven, nobody gets left out. In my conclusion, there is a God, and he is using Atheist to accomplish his unstoppable will. As well as Theist. God is using everything to bring about everything. But the way he uses Atheist is unique, in my view. And I want to continue on that.
Peace.
There is no doubt in my mind that Atheist are proof of God, and I am going to go into detail on this one, since so many Atheist frequent here. I wish I had the time to go into detail for each and every proof, but I simply don't want to take up that space. The minset of an Atheist is a preconceived notion caused by God himself. God wanted the human populus to be filled with every kind of human condition possible, like a rainbow coalition of human nature. ( The rainbow by the way, is another proof of God, a personal sign of him in fact. I'll go into that one later).
The reasons why you see Atheist attacking me here on this thread, is partly fear, irritation, uncomfortableness with their position being threatened, and insecurity. So they lash out at reason, and want to make it seem unreasonable. I understand that. Someone is stomping on your views, it just brings things out of you, but I stand ready to reason with anyone who is respectful, and I will return the respect, as I already have to those few who do.
That being said, let me get back into Atheism as proof of God.
Peace.
Peace.
There is no doubt in my mind that Atheist are proof of God, and I am going to go into detail on this one, since so many Atheist frequent here. I wish I had the time to go into detail for each and every proof, but I simply don't want to take up that space. The minset of an Atheist is a preconceived notion caused by God himself. God wanted the human populus to be filled with every kind of human condition possible, like a rainbow coalition of human nature. ( The rainbow by the way, is another proof of God, a personal sign of him in fact. I'll go into that one later).
The reasons why you see Atheist attacking me here on this thread, is partly fear, irritation, uncomfortableness with their position being threatened, and insecurity. So they lash out at reason, and want to make it seem unreasonable. I understand that. Someone is stomping on your views, it just brings things out of you, but I stand ready to reason with anyone who is respectful, and I will return the respect, as I already have to those few who do.
That being said, let me get back into Atheism as proof of God.
Peace.
-
recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343744 wrote:
The reasons why you see Atheist attacking me here on this thread, is partly fear, irritation, uncomfortableness with their position being threatened, and insecurity. So they lash out at reason, and want to make it seem unreasonable. I understand that. Someone is stomping on your views, it just brings things out of you, but I stand ready to reason with anyone who is respectful, and I will return the respect, as I already have to those few who do.
I'm beginning to doubt that you know the meaning of the word: respect. Your agenda is patently obvious, since you don't respond to friendly posts, but only when you get your knuckles rapped for being ignorant and use every push back as an excuse to claim persecution. You're the one with the need to get up on your soapbox and tell us how everything works. And there's something wrong with us if we don't agree with all of your musings?
The reasons why you see Atheist attacking me here on this thread, is partly fear, irritation, uncomfortableness with their position being threatened, and insecurity. So they lash out at reason, and want to make it seem unreasonable. I understand that. Someone is stomping on your views, it just brings things out of you, but I stand ready to reason with anyone who is respectful, and I will return the respect, as I already have to those few who do.
I'm beginning to doubt that you know the meaning of the word: respect. Your agenda is patently obvious, since you don't respond to friendly posts, but only when you get your knuckles rapped for being ignorant and use every push back as an excuse to claim persecution. You're the one with the need to get up on your soapbox and tell us how everything works. And there's something wrong with us if we don't agree with all of your musings?
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343730 wrote: This is transparent, I see through it. You don't refute them, because you simply cannot, thats just an excuse. I have given the list of proofs, simply refute them one by one, or admit to the inability to do so. What you call spam, I call evidence, that is thus far, unrefuted by any of you. Thats just the simple truth. I have provided pages and pages of why I believe God is real, and I will continue to provide pages more, and I expect they will continue to stand unrefuted.
The thread speaks for itself, all I have gotten is insults on my personage, silliy references to myths, and just a big response of " Nothing." And I expected nothing, so its no surprise to me.
Peace.
Your proofs are not proofs except to yourself. That should be enough for you.
You cannot prove the existence of god in any manner than means anything to anyone except yourself. That the bible stories can be verified by archaeology and geological evidence does not prove the existence of god all it does is show that in part it is the history of a wandering tribe in the middle east. there are other histories around from people who were contemporary. That some of the apparently mystical events can be explained scientifically only confirm that the stories are those of a primitive people seeing something they could not understand, that a thunderstorm is the gods arguing is a good theory if you don't know what is happening or an earthquake that brings down a city wall is an act of god unless you know what causes it. The real nonsense in the bible is things like the story of genesis. If you want to believe it is literally true that's your problem but don't be surprised if people laugh.
There is no point anyone refuting your proofs, you probably would not accept the argument's in the first place but also imagine the effect if you were persuaded that your belief in god was nonsensical. Could you handle it? Many people whom lose their faith become unstable and cannot cope with life, what horror to inflict on anyone to shatter their faith. It is something you have to come to yourself.
Atheism is not just another religion, There is no body of work you can study that will give you the answer you seek you have to find your own way. That is why you should stay with your belief in god. many take comfort in the fear their religion gives them and the satisfaction of knowing they are going to heaven and non believers are not. Unless you are prepared to leave that comfort behind you should not think about it but just believe in god and leave it at that, and try not to annoy those of different faiths to your own as they can be very violent or maybe they will just pester you if they get a hint of weakness suggesting you might convert.
The thread speaks for itself, all I have gotten is insults on my personage, silliy references to myths, and just a big response of " Nothing." And I expected nothing, so its no surprise to me.
Peace.
Your proofs are not proofs except to yourself. That should be enough for you.
You cannot prove the existence of god in any manner than means anything to anyone except yourself. That the bible stories can be verified by archaeology and geological evidence does not prove the existence of god all it does is show that in part it is the history of a wandering tribe in the middle east. there are other histories around from people who were contemporary. That some of the apparently mystical events can be explained scientifically only confirm that the stories are those of a primitive people seeing something they could not understand, that a thunderstorm is the gods arguing is a good theory if you don't know what is happening or an earthquake that brings down a city wall is an act of god unless you know what causes it. The real nonsense in the bible is things like the story of genesis. If you want to believe it is literally true that's your problem but don't be surprised if people laugh.
There is no point anyone refuting your proofs, you probably would not accept the argument's in the first place but also imagine the effect if you were persuaded that your belief in god was nonsensical. Could you handle it? Many people whom lose their faith become unstable and cannot cope with life, what horror to inflict on anyone to shatter their faith. It is something you have to come to yourself.
Atheism is not just another religion, There is no body of work you can study that will give you the answer you seek you have to find your own way. That is why you should stay with your belief in god. many take comfort in the fear their religion gives them and the satisfaction of knowing they are going to heaven and non believers are not. Unless you are prepared to leave that comfort behind you should not think about it but just believe in god and leave it at that, and try not to annoy those of different faiths to your own as they can be very violent or maybe they will just pester you if they get a hint of weakness suggesting you might convert.
Is God Real?
recovering conservative;1343751 wrote: I'm beginning to doubt that you know the meaning of the word: respect. Your agenda is patently obvious, since you don't respond to friendly posts, but only when you get your knuckles rapped for being ignorant and use every push back as an excuse to claim persecution. You're the one with the need to get up on your soapbox and tell us how everything works. And there's something wrong with us if we don't agree with all of your musings?
I regret that you feel I am ignorant, I have responded to you in respect. And at first, so were you. I regret that you now regress from that, and I wish you well on your journey.
Atheism is the flip side of a two sided coin which has Theism on the other side. Both need each other, thats another reason Atheist frequent religious boards, they need to. They need that other side of themselves. Neither can exist in this world without the other. They have a need to put each other down, in order to lift themselves up. But God uses both groups, and both groups are destined to be with God. Yet neither group will acknowledge this, because they are at odds.
And I want to continue on that.
Peace.
I regret that you feel I am ignorant, I have responded to you in respect. And at first, so were you. I regret that you now regress from that, and I wish you well on your journey.
Atheism is the flip side of a two sided coin which has Theism on the other side. Both need each other, thats another reason Atheist frequent religious boards, they need to. They need that other side of themselves. Neither can exist in this world without the other. They have a need to put each other down, in order to lift themselves up. But God uses both groups, and both groups are destined to be with God. Yet neither group will acknowledge this, because they are at odds.
And I want to continue on that.
Peace.
Is God Real?
gmc;1343755 wrote: Your proofs are not proofs except to yourself. That should be enough for you.
You cannot prove the existence of god in any manner than means anything to anyone except yourself. That the bible stories can be verified by archaeology and geological evidence does not prove the existence of god all it does is show that in part it is the history of a wandering tribe in the middle east. there are other histories around from people who were contemporary. That some of the apparently mystical events can be explained scientifically only confirm that the stories are those of a primitive people seeing something they could not understand, that a thunderstorm is the gods arguing is a good theory if you don't know what is happening or an earthquake that brings down a city wall is an act of god unless you know what causes it. The real nonsense in the bible is things like the story of genesis. If you want to believe it is literally true that's your problem but don't be surprised if people laugh.
There is no point anyone refuting your proofs, you probably would not accept the argument's in the first place but also imagine the effect if you were persuaded that your belief in god was nonsensical. Could you handle it? Many people whom lose their faith become unstable and cannot cope with life, what horror to inflict on anyone to shatter their faith. It is something you have to come to yourself.
Atheism is not just another religion, There is no body of work you can study that will give you the answer you seek you have to find your own way. That is why you should stay with your belief in god. many take comfort in the fear their religion gives them and the satisfaction of knowing they are going to heaven and non believers are not. Unless you are prepared to leave that comfort behind you should not think about it but just believe in god and leave it at that, and try not to annoy those of different faiths to your own as they can be very violent or maybe they will just pester you if they get a hint of weakness suggesting you might convert.
Again I disagree, archaeology has used science to prove its findings, and they match the bible word for word, find for find. Some time ago an excavation was conducted at " Pompeii", Italy, which shed some light on Lots wife turning into a pillar of Salt, one of those mystical things in scripture that you doubt. Pompeii, much like Sodom and Gomorrah, shows mute evidence of vast volcanic deposits. When Pompeii was destroyed in A.D. 79, it didnot suffer destruction by hot molten lava, but first a volcanic gas setteled over the city, asphyxiating many of the citizens in their sleep. The city was then covered with heavy deposits of volcanic ash to a depth of about twenty feet and forgotten- until the Archaeologist went to work, with science as their partner.
The pickmen noticed that their pick struck a hollow place in the ashes. The director gave instructions to the men to open another hole near the first one to act as an air vent. He then pumped plaster of Paris into the hollow place and allowed it to dry. After breaking the ashes from around the hardened cast, they gazed upon the perfectly preserved form of a sleeping woman. Repeating this, numerous human and animal forms were found. The late " Harry Rimmer" said that Volcanic ash is heavily impregnated with chemicals, which are water soluble. As time went on, the ash later metamorphosed into a soft stone, simular to pumice stone. Being porous, water penertrated it freely. The chemical content of the ash worked quickly on the forms of the deceased, and brought about a chemical change which turned their bodies into some chemical, crystalline substance of sufficent hardness to permit the surrounding ash to retain a perfect cast of the body. Turned into salt of some variety, which I think is a perfect explination of Lots wife turning into a pillar of salt.
Peace.
You cannot prove the existence of god in any manner than means anything to anyone except yourself. That the bible stories can be verified by archaeology and geological evidence does not prove the existence of god all it does is show that in part it is the history of a wandering tribe in the middle east. there are other histories around from people who were contemporary. That some of the apparently mystical events can be explained scientifically only confirm that the stories are those of a primitive people seeing something they could not understand, that a thunderstorm is the gods arguing is a good theory if you don't know what is happening or an earthquake that brings down a city wall is an act of god unless you know what causes it. The real nonsense in the bible is things like the story of genesis. If you want to believe it is literally true that's your problem but don't be surprised if people laugh.
There is no point anyone refuting your proofs, you probably would not accept the argument's in the first place but also imagine the effect if you were persuaded that your belief in god was nonsensical. Could you handle it? Many people whom lose their faith become unstable and cannot cope with life, what horror to inflict on anyone to shatter their faith. It is something you have to come to yourself.
Atheism is not just another religion, There is no body of work you can study that will give you the answer you seek you have to find your own way. That is why you should stay with your belief in god. many take comfort in the fear their religion gives them and the satisfaction of knowing they are going to heaven and non believers are not. Unless you are prepared to leave that comfort behind you should not think about it but just believe in god and leave it at that, and try not to annoy those of different faiths to your own as they can be very violent or maybe they will just pester you if they get a hint of weakness suggesting you might convert.
Again I disagree, archaeology has used science to prove its findings, and they match the bible word for word, find for find. Some time ago an excavation was conducted at " Pompeii", Italy, which shed some light on Lots wife turning into a pillar of Salt, one of those mystical things in scripture that you doubt. Pompeii, much like Sodom and Gomorrah, shows mute evidence of vast volcanic deposits. When Pompeii was destroyed in A.D. 79, it didnot suffer destruction by hot molten lava, but first a volcanic gas setteled over the city, asphyxiating many of the citizens in their sleep. The city was then covered with heavy deposits of volcanic ash to a depth of about twenty feet and forgotten- until the Archaeologist went to work, with science as their partner.
The pickmen noticed that their pick struck a hollow place in the ashes. The director gave instructions to the men to open another hole near the first one to act as an air vent. He then pumped plaster of Paris into the hollow place and allowed it to dry. After breaking the ashes from around the hardened cast, they gazed upon the perfectly preserved form of a sleeping woman. Repeating this, numerous human and animal forms were found. The late " Harry Rimmer" said that Volcanic ash is heavily impregnated with chemicals, which are water soluble. As time went on, the ash later metamorphosed into a soft stone, simular to pumice stone. Being porous, water penertrated it freely. The chemical content of the ash worked quickly on the forms of the deceased, and brought about a chemical change which turned their bodies into some chemical, crystalline substance of sufficent hardness to permit the surrounding ash to retain a perfect cast of the body. Turned into salt of some variety, which I think is a perfect explination of Lots wife turning into a pillar of salt.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343763 wrote: Again I disagree, archaeology has used science to prove its findings, and they match the bible word for word, find for find. Some time ago an excavation was conducted at " Pompeii", Italy, which shed some light on Lots wife turning into a pillar of Salt, one of those mystical things in scripture that you doubt. Pompeii, much like Sodom and Gomorrah, shows mute evidence of vast volcanic deposits. When Pompeii was destroyed in A.D. 79, it didnot suffer destruction by hot molten lava, but first a volcanic gas setteled over the city, asphyxiating many of the citizens in their sleep. The city was then covered with heavy deposits of volcanic ash to a depth of about twenty feet and forgotten- until the Archaeologist went to work, with science as their partner.
The pickmen noticed that their pick struck a hollow place in the ashes. The director gave instructions to the men to open another hole near the first one to act as an air vent. He then pumped plaster of Paris into the hollow place and allowed it to dry. After breaking the ashes from around the hardened cast, they gazed upon the perfectly preserved form of a sleeping woman. Repeating this, numerous human and animal forms were found. The late " Harry Rimmer" said that Volcanic ash is heavily impregnated with chemicals, which are water soluble. As time went on, the ash later metamorphosed into a soft stone, simular to pumice stone. Being porous, water penertrated it freely. The chemical content of the ash worked quickly on the forms of the deceased, and brought about a chemical change which turned their bodies into some chemical, crystalline substance of sufficent hardness to permit the surrounding ash to retain a perfect cast of the body. Turned into salt of some variety, which I think is a perfect explination of Lots wife turning into a pillar of salt.
Peace.
You need to re-read my post.
That the bible stories can be verified by archaeology and geological evidence does not prove the existence of god all it does is show that in part it is the history of a wandering tribe in the middle east. there are other histories around from people who were contemporary. That some of the apparently mystical events can be explained scientifically only confirm that the stories are those of a primitive people seeing something they could not understand, that a thunderstorm is the gods arguing is a good theory if you don't know what is happening or an earthquake that brings down a city wall is an act of god unless you know what causes it.
You reinforce my point The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was a natural event to interpret it as the vengeance of god is understandable for a primitive people who did not know what was happening. It does not prove the existence of god any more than the destruction of Haiti does in contemporary times - although some evangelical Christians insist it was god's punishment for past sins. They don;t have the excuse of not knowing any better.
There is, for instance, also plenty of evidence from all around the world that there was indeed a massive world wide flood. It was a natural event but for those around at the time for want of a better explanation it becomes god's punishment, again it does not prove the existence of god. If you like there are plenty of links to documentaries and the like that go a long way to make sense out of what once seemed stories of events caused by god. Take out the nonsense about it being the word of god and the book is fascinating. It's not the history of my people but nevertheless it is interesting.
posted by mickiel
The reasons why you see Atheist attacking me here on this thread, is partly fear, irritation, uncomfortableness with their position being threatened, and insecurity. So they lash out at reason, and want to make it seem unreasonable. I understand that. Someone is stomping on your views, it just brings things out of you, but I stand ready to reason with anyone who is respectful, and I will return the respect, as I already have to those few who do.
This is a discussion forum. To post on a subject is to invite discourse. If someone disagrees with you to interpret that as an attack says a great deal. If you don't like the fact people will disagree with you or want to discuss with people who hold different views and beliefs why are you posting on this forum?
The pickmen noticed that their pick struck a hollow place in the ashes. The director gave instructions to the men to open another hole near the first one to act as an air vent. He then pumped plaster of Paris into the hollow place and allowed it to dry. After breaking the ashes from around the hardened cast, they gazed upon the perfectly preserved form of a sleeping woman. Repeating this, numerous human and animal forms were found. The late " Harry Rimmer" said that Volcanic ash is heavily impregnated with chemicals, which are water soluble. As time went on, the ash later metamorphosed into a soft stone, simular to pumice stone. Being porous, water penertrated it freely. The chemical content of the ash worked quickly on the forms of the deceased, and brought about a chemical change which turned their bodies into some chemical, crystalline substance of sufficent hardness to permit the surrounding ash to retain a perfect cast of the body. Turned into salt of some variety, which I think is a perfect explination of Lots wife turning into a pillar of salt.
Peace.
You need to re-read my post.
That the bible stories can be verified by archaeology and geological evidence does not prove the existence of god all it does is show that in part it is the history of a wandering tribe in the middle east. there are other histories around from people who were contemporary. That some of the apparently mystical events can be explained scientifically only confirm that the stories are those of a primitive people seeing something they could not understand, that a thunderstorm is the gods arguing is a good theory if you don't know what is happening or an earthquake that brings down a city wall is an act of god unless you know what causes it.
You reinforce my point The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was a natural event to interpret it as the vengeance of god is understandable for a primitive people who did not know what was happening. It does not prove the existence of god any more than the destruction of Haiti does in contemporary times - although some evangelical Christians insist it was god's punishment for past sins. They don;t have the excuse of not knowing any better.
There is, for instance, also plenty of evidence from all around the world that there was indeed a massive world wide flood. It was a natural event but for those around at the time for want of a better explanation it becomes god's punishment, again it does not prove the existence of god. If you like there are plenty of links to documentaries and the like that go a long way to make sense out of what once seemed stories of events caused by god. Take out the nonsense about it being the word of god and the book is fascinating. It's not the history of my people but nevertheless it is interesting.
posted by mickiel
The reasons why you see Atheist attacking me here on this thread, is partly fear, irritation, uncomfortableness with their position being threatened, and insecurity. So they lash out at reason, and want to make it seem unreasonable. I understand that. Someone is stomping on your views, it just brings things out of you, but I stand ready to reason with anyone who is respectful, and I will return the respect, as I already have to those few who do.
This is a discussion forum. To post on a subject is to invite discourse. If someone disagrees with you to interpret that as an attack says a great deal. If you don't like the fact people will disagree with you or want to discuss with people who hold different views and beliefs why are you posting on this forum?
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343341 wrote: In Genesis 2:22-25, God institutes marriage, he himself married Adam and Eve. This was the first marriage, and all of Adams generate have been getting married ever since. Thus marriage, is proof of God.
Peace.
You cannot quote a text to provide proof that the contents of that text are real.
You cannot quote the Bible to prove the existence of God.
Proof required external referents otherwise all you have is a circular argument.
Peace.
You cannot quote a text to provide proof that the contents of that text are real.
You cannot quote the Bible to prove the existence of God.
Proof required external referents otherwise all you have is a circular argument.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343494 wrote: Most are familar with the cuddly Koala bears and have heard of eucalyptus trees. They have a special relationship. Each is native to only one place on earth- Australia. Koalas eat nothing but eucalyptus leaves, often living their entire lives in one grove. They also derive moisture from these leaves because they never drink water. Koalas posses specific microorganisms in their digestive systems necessary to break down the elements in eucalyptus leaves that are toxic to every other creature on earth. These toxins are actually converted into vitamins.
How could this evolve, they had to be created with the microorganisms already present in their stomachs. Without them, they would have eaten the leaves and died. Many naturalist consider them to have the most advanced digestive system on the planet. Their low 5% protien intake with tannins and toxins, would kill other animals. Is it random luck that they developed a taste for these leaves and just happened to have the right microorganisms to digest them?
No, they were created and designed that way. Again, stunning proof of God.
Peace.
If you believe that Koalas, Eucalyptus trees and the micro-organisms are now as they always have been and they always will be then your argument might hold water but, in order to do so, you have to ignore an awful lot of evidence that species change over time. In the face of a gradual change in the three elements of your story with changing environmental conditions over the period in which the symbiosis formed your argument does not stand up.
How could this evolve, they had to be created with the microorganisms already present in their stomachs. Without them, they would have eaten the leaves and died. Many naturalist consider them to have the most advanced digestive system on the planet. Their low 5% protien intake with tannins and toxins, would kill other animals. Is it random luck that they developed a taste for these leaves and just happened to have the right microorganisms to digest them?
No, they were created and designed that way. Again, stunning proof of God.
Peace.
If you believe that Koalas, Eucalyptus trees and the micro-organisms are now as they always have been and they always will be then your argument might hold water but, in order to do so, you have to ignore an awful lot of evidence that species change over time. In the face of a gradual change in the three elements of your story with changing environmental conditions over the period in which the symbiosis formed your argument does not stand up.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343567 wrote: Did you know that no one, no scientist has ever documented a single case of non-living matter comming to life in a self replicating form. There is no such thing as abiogenesis. There is no example of spontaneous generation which includes self replicating machinery ( DNA and RNA). There is ZERO scientific evidence of abiogenesis. This lack of evidence supports biogenesis, and that supports evidence for God being real.
Peace.
Would you consider a pile of crystals in a scientists dish as conforming to your definition of "non-living matter"?
If you then take some of those crystals and place them into the correct environment they promptly self-replicate - does that constitute "coming to life"?
Certainly, if I was talking of seeding a super-saturated solution to form more crystals then you would quite validly say no but try looking up Tobacco Mosaic Virus which exists in a crystalline form but which, when added to a tobacco plant will cause the plant to grow more virus.
Look it up and see what you think - is it non-living matter at all times but has some strange properties, is it living material all of the time or does it swap between the two states?
Peace.
Would you consider a pile of crystals in a scientists dish as conforming to your definition of "non-living matter"?
If you then take some of those crystals and place them into the correct environment they promptly self-replicate - does that constitute "coming to life"?
Certainly, if I was talking of seeding a super-saturated solution to form more crystals then you would quite validly say no but try looking up Tobacco Mosaic Virus which exists in a crystalline form but which, when added to a tobacco plant will cause the plant to grow more virus.
Look it up and see what you think - is it non-living matter at all times but has some strange properties, is it living material all of the time or does it swap between the two states?
Is God Real?
gmc wrote:
This is a discussion forum. To post on a subject is to invite discourse. If someone disagrees with you to interpret that as an attack says a great deal. If you don't like the fact people will disagree with you or want to discuss with people who hold different views and beliefs why are you posting on this forum?
I invite discussion and understand disagreement, but when I am called ignorant, I consider that an attack.
Peace.
This is a discussion forum. To post on a subject is to invite discourse. If someone disagrees with you to interpret that as an attack says a great deal. If you don't like the fact people will disagree with you or want to discuss with people who hold different views and beliefs why are you posting on this forum?
I invite discussion and understand disagreement, but when I am called ignorant, I consider that an attack.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Bryn Mawr;1343780 wrote: Would you consider a pile of crystals in a scientists dish as conforming to your definition of "non-living matter"?
If you then take some of those crystals and place them into the correct environment they promptly self-replicate - does that constitute "coming to life"?
Certainly, if I was talking of seeding a super-saturated solution to form more crystals then you would quite validly say no but try looking up Tobacco Mosaic Virus which exists in a crystalline form but which, when added to a tobacco plant will cause the plant to grow more virus.
Look it up and see what you think - is it non-living matter at all times but has some strange properties, is it living material all of the time or does it swap between the two states?
There are no examples of non living matter comming to life and replicating on their own, you know why, because its impossible, and impossible to prove.
I stand on that reasoning.
Peace.
If you then take some of those crystals and place them into the correct environment they promptly self-replicate - does that constitute "coming to life"?
Certainly, if I was talking of seeding a super-saturated solution to form more crystals then you would quite validly say no but try looking up Tobacco Mosaic Virus which exists in a crystalline form but which, when added to a tobacco plant will cause the plant to grow more virus.
Look it up and see what you think - is it non-living matter at all times but has some strange properties, is it living material all of the time or does it swap between the two states?
There are no examples of non living matter comming to life and replicating on their own, you know why, because its impossible, and impossible to prove.
I stand on that reasoning.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Bryn Mawr;1343779 wrote: If you believe that Koalas, Eucalyptus trees and the micro-organisms are now as they always have been and they always will be then your argument might hold water but, in order to do so, you have to ignore an awful lot of evidence that species change over time. In the face of a gradual change in the three elements of your story with changing environmental conditions over the period in which the symbiosis formed your argument does not stand up.
They do not stand up in your view, but they do in mine. At the present stage of geological research, we have absolutely nothing in the geological records that runs contrary to the view of creationist, that God created each species seperately, presumably from the dust of the earth, I quote Dr. Edmund J Ambrose.
Peace.
They do not stand up in your view, but they do in mine. At the present stage of geological research, we have absolutely nothing in the geological records that runs contrary to the view of creationist, that God created each species seperately, presumably from the dust of the earth, I quote Dr. Edmund J Ambrose.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343782 wrote: There are no examples of non living matter comming to life and replicating on their own, you know why, because its impossible, and impossible to prove.
I stand on that reasoning.
Peace.
I have just provided an example - care to comment on it?
I stand on that reasoning.
Peace.
I have just provided an example - care to comment on it?
Is God Real?
The Atheist mindset, is really set by Heaven to oppose. It started when God planted, or established the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, both ways are in the same tree, or environment. God created evil to not back down to him, because nothing ever has. As I said before, he needs the oppisition to complette his plan for humanitys growth from flesh to spirit, and he is burning this lesson into the pathology of humanity. As up and down are totally oppisite but related, so is Atheism and theism.
And I want to return to that point.
Peace.
And I want to return to that point.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Bryn Mawr;1343780 wrote: Would you consider a pile of crystals in a scientists dish as conforming to your definition of "non-living matter"?
If you then take some of those crystals and place them into the correct environment they promptly self-replicate - does that constitute "coming to life"?
Certainly, if I was talking of seeding a super-saturated solution to form more crystals then you would quite validly say no but try looking up Tobacco Mosaic Virus which exists in a crystalline form but which, when added to a tobacco plant will cause the plant to grow more virus.
Look it up and see what you think - is it non-living matter at all times but has some strange properties, is it living material all of the time or does it swap between the two states?
I am not aware of this example you gave, so I have no sure comment on it. Living matter cannot come from non living matter, there is no such thing as abiogenesis, and I have already been over that in previous post. As you scrape for meaningful rebuttal, I would hope that you offer things of more substance than a tabacco virus, or senseless mutations.
Peace.
If you then take some of those crystals and place them into the correct environment they promptly self-replicate - does that constitute "coming to life"?
Certainly, if I was talking of seeding a super-saturated solution to form more crystals then you would quite validly say no but try looking up Tobacco Mosaic Virus which exists in a crystalline form but which, when added to a tobacco plant will cause the plant to grow more virus.
Look it up and see what you think - is it non-living matter at all times but has some strange properties, is it living material all of the time or does it swap between the two states?
I am not aware of this example you gave, so I have no sure comment on it. Living matter cannot come from non living matter, there is no such thing as abiogenesis, and I have already been over that in previous post. As you scrape for meaningful rebuttal, I would hope that you offer things of more substance than a tabacco virus, or senseless mutations.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343783 wrote: They do not stand up in your view, but they do in mine. At the present stage of geological research, we have absolutely nothing in the geological records that runs contrary to the view of creationist, that God created each species seperately, presumably from the dust of the earth, I quote Dr. Edmund J Ambrose.
Peace.
Obviously, if you are a Creationist then the first sentence it true and so be it, we must agree to disagree.
Equally obviously, I totally disagree with your second sentence - the geological record is perfectly clear and comes down in favour of evolution.
Peace.
Obviously, if you are a Creationist then the first sentence it true and so be it, we must agree to disagree.
Equally obviously, I totally disagree with your second sentence - the geological record is perfectly clear and comes down in favour of evolution.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343792 wrote: I am not aware of this example you gave, so I have no sure comment on it. Living matter cannot come from non living matter, there is no such thing as abiogenesis, and I have already been over that in previous post. As you scrape for meaningful rebuttal, I would hope that you offer things of more substance than a tabacco virus, or senseless mutations.
Peace.
Not scraping for a meaningful rebuttal but giving a valid example of a case that crosses the boundary you state does not exist.
Basic question - are viruses alive?
Peace.
Not scraping for a meaningful rebuttal but giving a valid example of a case that crosses the boundary you state does not exist.
Basic question - are viruses alive?
Is God Real?
Bryn Mawr;1343793 wrote: Obviously, if you are a Creationist then the first sentence it true and so be it, we must agree to disagree.
Equally obviously, I totally disagree with your second sentence - the geological record is perfectly clear and comes down in favour of evolution.
Again I disagree, and give the example of Consciousness. I repeat, evolution cannot produce Consciousness. Where can this subjective experience which we introspect on, this constant companion of host of associations, hopes, fears, affections, knowledges, colors, smells, toothaches, thrills, tickles, pleasures, distresses, and desires-- where AND how in evolution could all this wonderful tapestry of inner experience have evolved? How can we derive this inwardness out of mere matter? And if so, When? Answer me that.
Peace.
Equally obviously, I totally disagree with your second sentence - the geological record is perfectly clear and comes down in favour of evolution.
Again I disagree, and give the example of Consciousness. I repeat, evolution cannot produce Consciousness. Where can this subjective experience which we introspect on, this constant companion of host of associations, hopes, fears, affections, knowledges, colors, smells, toothaches, thrills, tickles, pleasures, distresses, and desires-- where AND how in evolution could all this wonderful tapestry of inner experience have evolved? How can we derive this inwardness out of mere matter? And if so, When? Answer me that.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Bryn Mawr;1343795 wrote: Not scraping for a meaningful rebuttal but giving a valid example of a case that crosses the boundary you state does not exist.
Basic question - are viruses alive?
Viruses are mutations, I do not accept mutations as valid points to support your premise. They only replicate in things that are alrerady living.
Peace.
Basic question - are viruses alive?
Viruses are mutations, I do not accept mutations as valid points to support your premise. They only replicate in things that are alrerady living.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343567 wrote: Did you know that no one, no scientist has ever documented a single case of non-living matter comming to life in a self replicating form. There is no such thing as abiogenesis. There is no example of spontaneous generation which includes self replicating machinery ( DNA and RNA). There is ZERO scientific evidence of abiogenesis. This lack of evidence supports biogenesis, and that supports evidence for God being real.
Peace.Wrong again, Mickiel.
Life’s First Spark Re-Created in the Laboratory | Wired Science | Wired.com
Peace.Wrong again, Mickiel.
Life’s First Spark Re-Created in the Laboratory | Wired Science | Wired.com
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Is God Real?
Ahso!;1343802 wrote: Wrong again, Mickiel.
Life’s First Spark Re-Created in the Laboratory | Wired Science | Wired.com
Again, I totally disagree, what they did was a mutation, it was not life. I do not accept mutations as examplers of life. Come on now, you guys are scraping, you can do better than that. Or can you? You are reduced to scraping the barrell for rebuttals.
Peace.
Life’s First Spark Re-Created in the Laboratory | Wired Science | Wired.com
Again, I totally disagree, what they did was a mutation, it was not life. I do not accept mutations as examplers of life. Come on now, you guys are scraping, you can do better than that. Or can you? You are reduced to scraping the barrell for rebuttals.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343797 wrote: Again I disagree, and give the example of Consciousness. I repeat, evolution cannot produce Consciousness. Where can this subjective experience which we introspect on, this constant companion of host of associations, hopes, fears, affections, knowledges, colors, smells, toothaches, thrills, tickles, pleasures, distresses, and desires-- where AND how in evolution could all this wonderful tapestry of inner experience have evolved? How can we derive this inwardness out of mere matter? And if so, When? Answer me that.
Peace.
I already did - you ignored my comments
Peace.
I already did - you ignored my comments
Is God Real?
Bryn Mawr;1343807 wrote: I already did - you ignored my comments
Come on man, answer the question. Don't be afraid, I am not going to hurt your answer.
Peace.
Come on man, answer the question. Don't be afraid, I am not going to hurt your answer.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343805 wrote: Again, I totally disagree, what they did was a mutation, it was not life. I do not accept mutations as examplers of life. Come on now, you guys are scraping, you can do better than that. Or can you? You are reduced to scraping the barrell for rebuttals.
Peace.Wrong again, Mickiel. Read the article. You've been shown to be mistaken or incorrect in every instance you've been challanged, and when unable to support your claims you run and hide in places like:Thats what I was told in school back in the 70's or I'm going by such and such college papers, and yet are unable to produce the papers or books.
The good news here is that the members of this forum are refusing to allow you to continue to post your propaganda unchallenged. People who will read this thread in the future will see what a mockery you make of yourself and your god.
Peace.Wrong again, Mickiel. Read the article. You've been shown to be mistaken or incorrect in every instance you've been challanged, and when unable to support your claims you run and hide in places like:Thats what I was told in school back in the 70's or I'm going by such and such college papers, and yet are unable to produce the papers or books.
The good news here is that the members of this forum are refusing to allow you to continue to post your propaganda unchallenged. People who will read this thread in the future will see what a mockery you make of yourself and your god.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Is God Real?
Atheist are on Gods automatic pilot, as are Theist. We can only be conscious of, those things we are conscious of. Atheist are doing and thinking exactly how God wills them to be. As are Theist.
God is in total control, and no human can take that control away.
Peace.
God is in total control, and no human can take that control away.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Ahso!;1343810 wrote: Wrong again, Mickiel. Read the article. You've been shown to be mistaken or incorrect in every instance you've been challanged, and when unable to support your claims you run and hide in places like:Thats what I was told in school back in the 70's or I'm going by such and such college papers, and yet are unable to produce the papers or books.
The good news here is that the members of this forum are refusing to allow you to continue to post your propaganda unchallenged. People who will read this thread in the future will see what a mockery you make of yourself and your god.
I can accrept this, and in the future they will equally see that no Atheist here has offered rebuttal for at least 75 examples of proofs of God that I have posted. They will see how Atheist got stomped on.
Peace.
The good news here is that the members of this forum are refusing to allow you to continue to post your propaganda unchallenged. People who will read this thread in the future will see what a mockery you make of yourself and your god.
I can accrept this, and in the future they will equally see that no Atheist here has offered rebuttal for at least 75 examples of proofs of God that I have posted. They will see how Atheist got stomped on.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Is every non-believer in your god an Atheist, Mickiel?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343799 wrote: Viruses are mutations, I do not accept mutations as valid points to support your premise. They only replicate in things that are alrerady living.
Peace.
I think you need to review your definitions.
Viruses are not mutations, mutations happen in any form of life that relies on mechanisms like DNA / RNA when an error occurs in the copying process.
Viruses are segments of RNA that cause the target organism to create more of that form of RNA - exactly the same principle as the RNA reproduction within the mitochondria within each of the cells of your body using the same mechanism as your DNA uses to reproduce itself.
That it does not fit into your worldview does not mean that it is not a question to be answered - indeed, viruses are one of the more interesting questions in life science which will give insights into the origin of life itself. It is natural, therefore, given that you believe that all life was created, that you should not accept any discussion of viruses as valid.
Peace.
I think you need to review your definitions.
Viruses are not mutations, mutations happen in any form of life that relies on mechanisms like DNA / RNA when an error occurs in the copying process.
Viruses are segments of RNA that cause the target organism to create more of that form of RNA - exactly the same principle as the RNA reproduction within the mitochondria within each of the cells of your body using the same mechanism as your DNA uses to reproduce itself.
That it does not fit into your worldview does not mean that it is not a question to be answered - indeed, viruses are one of the more interesting questions in life science which will give insights into the origin of life itself. It is natural, therefore, given that you believe that all life was created, that you should not accept any discussion of viruses as valid.
Is God Real?
Ahso!;1343814 wrote: Is every non-believer in your god an Atheist, Mickiel?
No, Atheist are Atheist. Those who are not, but not believers in God can be many things, and I am not placing those things in catagorys.
Peace.
No, Atheist are Atheist. Those who are not, but not believers in God can be many things, and I am not placing those things in catagorys.
Peace.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1343809 wrote: Come on man, answer the question. Don't be afraid, I am not going to hurt your answer.
Peace.
Excuse me but that's my line - you are the one refusing to answer my questions.
Peace.
Excuse me but that's my line - you are the one refusing to answer my questions.
Is God Real?
Bryn Mawr;1343816 wrote: I think you need to review your definitions.
Viruses are not mutations, mutations happen in any form of life that relies on mechanisms like DNA / RNA when an error occurs in the copying process.
Viruses are segments of RNA that cause the target organism to create more of that form of RNA - exactly the same principle as the RNA reproduction within the mitochondria within each of the cells of your body using the same mechanism as your DNA uses to reproduce itself.
That it does not fit into your worldview does not mean that it is not a question to be answered - indeed, viruses are one of the more interesting questions in life science which will give insights into the origin of life itself. It is natural, therefore, given that you believe that all life was created, that you should not accept any discussion of viruses as valid.
Anything created in a labortory is a mutation in my view. Your scraping.
Peace.
Viruses are not mutations, mutations happen in any form of life that relies on mechanisms like DNA / RNA when an error occurs in the copying process.
Viruses are segments of RNA that cause the target organism to create more of that form of RNA - exactly the same principle as the RNA reproduction within the mitochondria within each of the cells of your body using the same mechanism as your DNA uses to reproduce itself.
That it does not fit into your worldview does not mean that it is not a question to be answered - indeed, viruses are one of the more interesting questions in life science which will give insights into the origin of life itself. It is natural, therefore, given that you believe that all life was created, that you should not accept any discussion of viruses as valid.
Anything created in a labortory is a mutation in my view. Your scraping.
Peace.