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I don't know just how much truth there is to this or exactly what the status is but if true I do think this sets a precedent. If the IMF and EU can all but take over a country, I think somethings seriously wrong.

I think politicians in Greece should be worried, I don't know Greeks to be tolerant of stuff like this.

GREECE: Shocking New Bailout Conditions Mean The End Of National Sovereignty

Your thoughts?

Scrat;1360752 wrote: I don't know just how much truth there is to this or exactly what the status is but if true I do think this sets a precedent. If the IMF and EU can all but take over a country, I think somethings seriously wrong.

I think politicians in Greece should be worried, I don't know Greeks to be tolerant of stuff like this.

GREECE: Shocking New Bailout Conditions Mean The End Of National Sovereignty

Your thoughts?


Tough conditions, but what is the alternative?

It doesn't make Greece the first state in the new country of Europe but it appears to be a step in that direction. Sadly it appears to be an increase it the power of the bureaucrats rather than the elected parliament.

Lon;1360753 wrote: Tough conditions, but what is the alternative?


Lynch the politicians.

gmc;1360766 wrote: Lynch the politicians.


Definitely a viable alternative but where do you stop?

They should declare bankruptcy.

Definitely a viable alternative but where do you stop?


It goes like this. You will need 3 candidates for each position including the current politicians.

Step 1. Assemble all of the current politicians and their potential replacements in a large fenced (preferably electrified) field.

Step 2. Build a set gallows or guillotines at one end of the field.

Step 3. Assemble all of the current and aspiring politicians into 3 rows facing the gallows. The current politicians should be in the front rank.

Step 4. Take the front rank of current politicians to the gallows or guillotines and execute them.

Step 5. Repeat the process with the second rank.

Step 6. March the third rank of aspiring politicians in a line to the base of the execution platform and have them stand at attention amongst the corpses of their cohorts for 24 hours. When 24 hours have passed tell them in very plain words that if they fail to place their country before themselves they will meet the same end as the first 2 ranks of ummmm... people.

This is just a suggestion. And in case anyone is asking why off the second rank they're just being offed so that the third has little doubt the people mean business. It's just to hammer the point home as some politicians can by very dense.

If a Bank can take you house.. are you losing personal sovereignty?

And if a bank can take your house, can the IMF take you country?

Sovereignty is now only a myth in the minds of the romantics.. we’ve have all been sold off for the personal wealth of a very few and we all sat back and watch it happen so that we could get our cheep Ipods.

Does Greece really think it can (like Ireland) borrow countless billions to fund a life style that they cannot afford, and then not pay it back?

If they and all people want their sovereignty back it is actually kind of simple.. stop spending more that you have, and do not borrow to live a life style you cannot afford.

There really is no such thing as free or easy money..

mikeinie;1360813 wrote: If a Bank can take you house.. are you losing personal sovereignty?

And if a bank can take your house, can the IMF take you country?

Sovereignty is now only a myth in the minds of the romantics.. we’ve have all been sold off for the personal wealth of a very few and we all sat back and watch it happen so that we could get our cheep Ipods.

Does Greece really think it can (like Ireland) borrow countless billions to fund a life style that they cannot afford, and then not pay it back?

If they and all people want their sovereignty back it is actually kind of simple.. stop spending more that you have, and do not borrow to live a life style you cannot afford.

There really is no such thing as free or easy money..


You only keep sovereignty when you have the wherewithal to do so. The people losing thir jobs and houses are doing so not because they have spent more than they earn or have been careless or foolish it's because someone else has, the politocians and banking establishment - individuals who were entrusted with great responsibility. So to suggest that everybody is going to have to suffer while those who caused it not only get away with it some of them still get their bonuses rather misses the point. It's easy to be independent when you have loads of money but when what you have is just taken away without a by your leave people are going to get rather pissed. When people have nothing to lose they are not going to care any more about keeping the status quo. The people not only want their sovereignty back they are going to take it and make their anger very clear indeed. If the peoples of europe had been asked about the bank bail out the answer would have been a resounding NO. If they'd been asked should the crooks who caused it shpuld go to jail the answer would have been yes. If they had been asked if the assets of those responsible should have been sequestrated the answer would have been yes. I look forward to the irish getting annoyed in the near future.

some food for thought

Will Iceland Vote

BBC News - Iceland rejects plan to repay Icesave debts

The EU’s nightmare is that voters may wake up in the same way that Argentina finally did when it announced that the neoliberal advice it had taken from U.S. and IMF advisors had destroyed the economy so much that it could not pay. As matters turned out, it had little trouble in imposing a 70% write-down on foreign creditors. Its economy is now booming – because it became credit-worthy again, once it freed itself from its financial albatross!

Much the same occurred in Latin America and other Third World countries after Mexico announced that it could not pay its foreign debts in 1982. A wave of defaults spread – inspiring negotiated debt write-downs in the form of Brady Bonds. U.S. and other creditors calculated what debtors realistically could pay, and replaced the old irresponsible bank loans with new bonds. The United States and IMF members applauded the write-downs as a success story.




If we all turn round and say no to the bankers there is nothing they can do about it.

If we all turn round and say no to the bankers there is nothing they can do about it.


It's not something I would bet on GMC. If you read the BBC article closely you will see that even though 93% of the people said no the politicians are still trying to get a deal through. And ultimately they have the option below.

Attached files

Scrat;1360847 wrote: It's not something I would bet on GMC. If you read the BBC article closely you will see that even though 93% of the people said no the politicians are still trying to get a deal through. And ultimately they have the option below.


Not in Iceland they don't. I'm not sure they have an army.

I looked it up. They do have plenty of friends. I think the rulers of the country will simply bow down to the special interests and do it without the consent of the people. Like congress here in America when they give themselves a pay raise in the dark of night.

From Wiki.

Has not had a standing army since 1869, but is a member of NATO. There was a defense agreement with the United States, which maintained an Iceland Defense Force and a military base in the country from 1951 to September 2006; in March 2006 the US announced it would continue to provide for Iceland's defense but without permanently basing forces in the country; Naval Air Station Keflavik closed in 2006 after 55 years.[20] Even though Iceland does not have a standing army, it still maintains a military expeditionary peacekeeping force, an air defense system, an extensive militarised coast guard, a police service, and a tactical police force. There are also agreements about military and other security operations with Norway,[21][22] Denmark,[23][24][25] and other NATO countries. See Military of Iceland for more information.

Scrat;1360900 wrote: I looked it up. They do have plenty of friends. I think the rulers of the country will simply bow down to the special interests and do it without the consent of the people. Like congress here in America when they give themselves a pay raise in the dark of night.

From Wiki.


That's quite sad really. It seems you have given up all expectation that government by the people for the people will prevail in the US.

As to Iceland, of they ignore the rerefenda decisions how long do you think any government will stay in power?

In europe there is a tradition of civil disobedience if governments make the mistake of not listening there's not the same sense of despair and powerlessness many americans seem to feel. Although mass protest movements tend to build up slowly they are unstoppable when they get going. You all have votes - you don't need to take this crap.