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A hypothetical situation----------You are in your Grocery Store which you own. There are rioting mobs of people in the street outside your business. A group of 8 or 9 suddenly breaks the glass door and windows and enters your store. They proceed to smash glass counters and take liquor, beer and foodstuffs. You fear for your own personal safety and the safety of your employees. Do you call 911? If you have access to a gun would you use it even if the mob is unarmed? If you had a club would you use it? Would it make any difference if you were at home with your family and a mob tried to break in?

Lon;1364569 wrote: A hypothetical situation----------You are in your Grocery Store which you own. There are rioting mobs of people in the street outside your business. A group of 8 or 9 suddenly breaks the glass door and windows and enters your store. They proceed to smash glass counters and take liquor, beer and foodstuffs. You fear for your own personal safety and the safety of your employees. Do you call 911? If you have access to a gun would you use it even if the mob is unarmed? If you had a club would you use it? Would it make any difference if you were at home with your family and a mob tried to break in?


Firstly, I would have sent my employees home and locked up as soon as the rioting started. but were I in the store at the time, I would just grab a bottle of the best Cognac, and head for home.

I would have plenty of insurance for the property and merchandise loss.

As for being at home with the family, I would probably shoot any that managed to get inside. No one messes with my family.

Lars plan is pretty good. I'd probably do it. I certainly would not try to stop them without some heavy firepower which would be highly unlikely and stupid.

Scrat;1364588 wrote: Lars plan is pretty good. I'd probably do it. I certainly would not try to stop them without some heavy firepower which would be highly unlikely and stupid.


Yeah, I never felt risking, or taking a life over "Stuff" made much sense.

Family, on the other hand, is another matter.

LarsMac;1364574 wrote: Firstly, I would have sent my employees home and locked up as soon as the rioting started. but were I in the store at the time, I would just grab a bottle of the best Cognac, and head for home.

I would have plenty of insurance for the property and merchandise loss.

As for being at home with the family, I would probably shoot any that managed to get inside. No one messes with my family.


But what if you felt physically threatened at your store?

If you want to shoot somebody keep in mind that we don't live in a John Wayne version of the Wild Wild West. If some looters come into your store and you shoot somebody remember this. They probably live not far from your store and are members of the local community. They have friends, and their friends have friends. Teens and thugs nowadays have access to weapons of almost all kinds.

You shoot somebody expect somebody to cap yo a** at some point in the future. If you want to go to war with some of the kids on our streets nowadays be my guest. I won't be soliciting your business if I see you on the evening news grinning from ear to ear, I don't want to catch a bullet meant for you.

Pick your battles.

Lon;1364594 wrote: But what if you felt physically threatened at your store?


Then I leave.

There is nothing in the store worth a life. Mine or anyone's

Lars has a similar view as mine. Material items-not worth it. Call 911, sure would if time permitted. I probably would have the handy baseball bat, and I would give them one warning, and that's it if they came after me. If they broke into my house, no warning since it is a break-in and family safety is the issue. The same if they assaulted me or a family member on the street.

I'd get myself and any employee's out of the building and let them get on with It should It be my shop. Stock and buildings can be replaced.

My home and family, a different story. I think I would grab the nearest weapon and take my chances to be honest.

I agree with LaMars stuff is stuff it can be replaced. I learned that first hand this year had a break in at my home they took electronics, money, and 2 fully stocked jewelry boxes yes it hurt some of the jewelery was from my mother and grandmother that still makes me sad. That was 4 months ago and to be honest I haven't missed any of the items except the jewelery as what I had on that day is all I have I'm alive and no one got hurt.

Yes get out as fast as possible if you own a business not worth the loss of life. Yes I would kill to protect my family without a doubt any day of the week.

It's an easier call, having never owned nor built my own shop from the ground up. Someone who has spent their life investing themselves into it may have an emotional attachment that I can't.

So I could see an attack against my shop as an attack against my person. I can imagine feeling the threat as being a personal threat. And if I owned a gun I could imagine doing unto others before they could do unto me. They've already proved their violence. I don't think I would try to reason with them.

Bats are nothing and would only be taken away and used against you, IMO.

I do own a shop. If it were only me and I could leave without worry of bodily harm on me or my employees I would just leave and come back later to repair.

If my wife were at work, me or my employees at any kind of risk, then there is a good chance that all hell would break loose. Yes I do have a gun in my desk.

Scrat;1364597 wrote: If you want to shoot somebody keep in mind that we don't live in a John Wayne version of the Wild Wild West. If some looters come into your store and you shoot somebody remember this. They probably live not far from your store and are members of the local community. They have friends, and their friends have friends. Teens and thugs nowadays have access to weapons of almost all kinds.

You shoot somebody expect somebody to cap yo a** at some point in the future. If you want to go to war with some of the kids on our streets nowadays be my guest. I won't be soliciting your business if I see you on the evening news grinning from ear to ear, I don't want to catch a bullet meant for you.

Pick your battles.


First off my friend Scrat---It's not my wish to KILL ANYBODY ----I don't even believe in the DEATH PENALTY, but I am perfectly willing to risk my own life in defense of my family, personal being and property.

Scrat;1364597 wrote: If you want to shoot somebody keep in mind that we don't live in a John Wayne version of the Wild Wild West. .


Speak for yourself. I live in new Mexico. You can legally carry a gun concealed into a bar while you're drinking, a school, a restaurant, church, or on your hip in public.



YOU TALKIN" TO ME?!!!!

Lon;1364641 wrote: First off my friend Scrat---It's not my wish to KILL ANYBODY ----I don't even believe in the DEATH PENALTY, but I am perfectly willing to risk my own life in defense of my family, personal being and property.


I came to this thread after replying to the 'Why not shoot the rioters' thread, glad to see many of us value life more than objects......Lon too apparently, but he would delegate shooting rioters to his hired help, the Police.

Saint_;1364690 wrote: Speak for yourself. I live in new Mexico. You can legally carry a gun concealed into a bar while you're drinking, a school, a restaurant, church, or on your hip in public.



YOU TALKIN" TO ME?!!!!Ya think anyone has the gumption to tell that guy he has breasts?

Smoke 'em, they have violent genes.

flopstock;1364631 wrote: It's an easier call, having never owned nor built my own shop from the ground up. Someone who has spent their life investing themselves into it may have an emotional attachment that I can't.

So I could see an attack against my shop as an attack against my person. I can imagine feeling the threat as being a personal threat. And if I owned a gun I could imagine doing unto others before they could do unto me. They've already proved their violence. I don't think I would try to reason with them.

Bats are nothing and would only be taken away and used against you, IMO.


Having owned a business, and sunk my entire life into it, I can certainly understand the emotional attachment that some have shown under such circumstances.

Fortunately, I have come to understand, from my own perspective, that stuff is not worth lives.

And for the question here, then, I can only speak for myself.

Ever been in a road rage situation where someone tried to force you off the road or get you to come out you car? Ever get out your car to tell the idiot behind you blowing his horn because you haven't moved out his way fast enough what a pillock he is? How did you react? violent or under control?

Ahso!;1364721 wrote: Smoke 'em, they have violent genes. Some of the British looters are as young as 9 years old. Opportunist 9 year olds, that's all.

You would kill them would you, rather than Invest In the community and give them jobs to look forward to ?

gmc;1364750 wrote: Ever been in a road rage situation where someone tried to force you off the road or get you to come out you car? Ever get out your car to tell the idiot behind you blowing his horn because you haven't moved out his way fast enough what a pillock he is? How did you react? violent or under control?


Always under control.

gmc;1364750 wrote: Ever been in a road rage situation where someone tried to force you off the road or get you to come out you car? Ever get out your car to tell the idiot behind you blowing his horn because you haven't moved out his way fast enough what a pillock he is? How did you react? violent or under control?


yeah, one time a guy was driving like a maniac, weaving in and out and almost bashed me from behind just to speed past. At the next light he almost drove right through a red with heavy traffic. I was beside him and gave him the universal "hey slow down" sign by waving my hand downward. He jumps out and runs over to my passenger window and screams at me, 'What did you say to me?!!" I calmly told him, "I waved to you to slow down and be more careful because you could hurt someone or yourself." He was stunned for second and had a look like I'd just hit him with a sledgehammer on the forehead, then he jumped back in his car and blasted away without a word.

I found out later that an entire car of my students was behind me ready to jump out and beat him if he accosted me. Also, apparently everyone around me called him in to the police because I saw them chasing him through the mall parking lot about a mile later.

The world's a crazy place.

TV Auto Commercials don't do much to encourage safe and responsible driving habits. They always show excessive speed, spin outs, etc. I call them EXCESSIVE TESTOSTERONE COMMERCIALS.

gmc;1364750 wrote: Ever been in a road rage situation where someone tried to force you off the road or get you to come out you car? Ever get out your car to tell the idiot behind you blowing his horn because you haven't moved out his way fast enough what a pillock he is? How did you react? violent or under control?


Yup, once while taking my grandkids for an outing, I had a guy get peeved with me because I didn't turn right at the red light soon enough to suit him. After we turned, he pulled up to beside me and rolled down his window, yelled all sorts of things at me which I could not hear because I had my grandson's Dropkick Murphys CD going at full blast.

He then pulled up enough to force me to stop or run off the road.

I stopped, he jumped out of his car with a rather large piece of wood, (ball bat, or axe handle or something) and came towards us like he was going to bash in my windshield. I calmly reached under the seat and brought my favorite .45 Revolver up where he could see it. He stopped in his tracks, returned to his car, tossed the wood into the back seat, got in and drove away quickly.

Of course, at dinner with grandkids that evening, the conversation was primarily about proper use and constraint of force.

Lon;1364831 wrote: TV Auto Commercials don't do much to encourage safe and responsible driving habits. They always show excessive speed, spin outs, etc. I call them EXCESSIVE TESTOSTERONE COMMERCIALS.There was a time, as I'm sure you and most American members here recall, when public service commercial were the norm. Not any more as market forces have made those commercials unaffordable. Too bad too.

Ahso!;1364848 wrote: There was a time, as I'm sure you and most American members here recall, when public service commercial were the norm. Not any more as market forces have made those commercials unaffordable. Too bad too.Remember theres?

1977-78 Public Service Annoucement for "Wheels" - YouTube

1970s Cross At the Green, Not In Between PSA - YouTube

Don't cross the Street in the Middle of the Block - YouTube