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FourPart
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Post by FourPart »

Bruv;1481374 wrote: At work they have changed rear of house lighting to be movement sensitive, turning off when nobody is in the warehouse/toilet or whatever. Many lights are now LED and that, all over the country must save a huge amount of energy/cost.............yet the low pay wage bill is subsidised by benefits........there ought to be a law against it.
There is - although not quite in the right way. They take away the benefits.
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Post by Smaug »

Bruv;1481341 wrote: There are a lot of savings to be made by the way we use energy, energy efficient bulbs must have made huge savings.

It would be interesting if the deaths relating from mining oil and coal could be collated worldwide and compared to the ongoing death toll following the 2 atomic bombs on Japan from the date of detonation to today, including such tragedies as Aberfan, and lung disease.

I wouldn't mind a few quid on the bombs being 2nd or 3rd league killers.


Easily so, I would imagine. However, I suspect that would change abruptly in the event of a nuclear war! Let's hope we never "go there"...
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
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Post by Bruv »

Smaug;1481413 wrote: Easily so, I would imagine. However, I suspect that would change abruptly in the event of a nuclear war! Let's hope we never "go there"...


You do 'get' what I am alluding to don't you ?

That despite the nuclear bombs being designed to kill, the daily jobs of many people help kill with as much efficiency.

So on the balance sheet of risk, mining is more dangerous than nuclear bombs over this same time scale, and nuclear power is comparatively harmless.

By the same token wind power doesn't factor in the mining and manufacturing processes that go into producing this 'green' product and the environmental damage caused.

I live just up the road from Dungeness power station and would be in grave danger if anything went wrong, it has never worried me, whereas those great windmill monstrosities you spot while traveling offend my sensitivities and my intelligence......because logically the maintenance and constant movement and where they plant the ugly big things make them a liability. Of course this is my gut feeling and not based on any scientific study.
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Bruv;1481425 wrote: You do 'get' what I am alluding to don't you ?

That despite the nuclear bombs being designed to kill, the daily jobs of many people help kill with as much efficiency.

So on the balance sheet of risk, mining is more dangerous than nuclear bombs over this same time scale, and nuclear power is comparatively harmless.

By the same token wind power doesn't factor in the mining and manufacturing processes that go into producing this 'green' product and the environmental damage caused.

I live just up the road from Dungeness power station and would be in grave danger if anything went wrong, it has never worried me, whereas those great windmill monstrosities you spot while traveling offend my sensitivities and my intelligence......because logically the maintenance and constant movement and where they plant the ugly big things make them a liability. Of course this is my gut feeling and not based on any scientific study.


I'll just clarify. I'm aware that nuclear energy, thus far, has been relatively hassle-free, hasn't killed many people, and with adequate safeguards is an "acceptable risk", and for all practical purposes a "must" at this time, and until green energy can take up the "slack", we have little alternative, unless fracking can be carried out safely, and trusting a money-making commercial outfit to invest the time, trouble,research AND money into "guaranteed safe" fracking doesn't sit too comfortably with me at all. Industry and government has a long, bad track record for lying and warping the truth of many important issues, I for one, don't trust them at all, especially if there's a strong chance of collusion between the two.

Everything is subservient to money and profit. On that basis, are you inclined to trust their "findings"?

As for the wind-turbines, I think they're better offshore, both from the generation aspect, and the aesthetic point of view. Producing them is another matter entirely, regarding pollution. We're getting into "carbon-neutral" territory here...

We also need to move away from fossil-fuel dependency over the next decade or so. the alternatives DO exist, and we need to make good use of them!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
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Personally I find the windmills graceful.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Smaug;1481331 wrote: But they only work when the wind blows. With that in mind, maybe we should store some of the energy generated by them on suitably windy days for release to the grid on still days, to even up the distribution. These turbines work better offshore, where the wind is stronger, and more "even" for longer periods than onshore. I find them an eyesore, TBH. And intrusive. Even if they do produce as much as 17% of the energy (ave) requirements for the national grid. I can go with offshore development, though. 17% is, I suppose, becoming more significant. As you say, not something we can necessarily afford to ignore, though I've heard many different percentages quoted.

Maybe these figures depend on which way you're prejudiced!


The Severn Barrage (a rock solid, green, source of large quantities of reliable energy not dependant on quirks in the weather) was blocked, from memory, by the Greens on the grounds that it would disturb migrating birds. Those trying to save the planet need to decide what they consider to be important - one area of salt marsh or the pollution that comes from the ageing fossil fuelled power stations we have to keep running because the barrage wasn't built.
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Post by spot »

FourPart;1481440 wrote: Personally I find the windmills graceful.


I remember when the first group of three was erected on one side of the Brecon Beacons, and the entire concept of orienteering disintegrated overnight. Going out with a map and compass used to be enjoyable, there's an entire generation now which has never seen the point of it. GPS one can avoid, but wind turbines on the horizon are a different matter.
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Post by tude dog »

I love fracking.

Good for the nation and good for the economy.

I've made four trips to North Dakota.

Nothing wrong with making money.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
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I don't doubt that fracking will reduce the life expectancy of a large number of poor Americans. If that finally induces poor Americans to vote en masse in their own interests instead of those of their plutocrat owners then there's an up-side after all.
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Post by tude dog »

spot;1481476 wrote: I don't doubt that fracking will reduce the life expectancy of a large number of poor Americans.


That is quite a statement. How about the so called "middle calls"?

spot;1481476 wrote: If that finally induces poor Americans to vote en masse in their own interests instead of those of their plutocrat owners then there's an up-side after all.


Maybe poor, but not stupid. Of course they will vote in their own interests.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
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Post by spot »

tude dog;1481477 wrote: That is quite a statement. How about the so called "middle calls"?

Maybe poor, but not stupid. Of course they will vote in their own interests.


America no longer has a majority middle class, there's too little job security for too many people. What you have is a majority living on the edge of destitution should their job be downsized to another continent.

There are practically no Americans whose vote for either a Republican or a Democrat is in their own interest.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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Post by Bruv »

tude dog;1481472 wrote: I love fracking.

Good for the nation and good for the economy.

I've made four trips to North Dakota.

Nothing wrong with making money.


Making money......sometimes has a cost that isn't worth it.
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spot;1481478 wrote: There are practically no Americans whose vote for either a Republican or a Democrat is in their own interest.


If you bother to vote, whose interest would you vote for?
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
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Bruv;1481479 wrote: Making money......sometimes has a cost that isn't worth it.


I agree.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
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Post by Bruv »

tude dog;1481481 wrote: I agree.


Fracking ?
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Post by Smaug »

tude dog;1481472 wrote: I love fracking.

Good for the nation and good for the economy.

I've made four trips to North Dakota.

Nothing wrong with making money.


Unless it wrecks your environment! Still, you've got the space to make mistakes, to "live and learn", and develop better, safer techniques. We haven't in the UK. It's got to be right first time here.
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Post by spot »

tude dog;1481480 wrote: If you bother to vote, whose interest would you vote for?A third party, neither Republican nor Democrat, which advocates a socialist platform internally and has a totally Isolationist foreign policy so as not to piss off the rest of humanity any longer. I suspect that if any such party tried to form in America it would have the FBI chewing its ankles all the way, arresting its leadership on trumped-up charges. I still think it would be worth doing.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by FourPart »

Surely regardless of their Social Graces, anyone who is in the majority is, by definition, Middle Class. There are people above them. There are people below them. Fracking only benefits the Upper Class. Making those with the money richer still at the expense of everyone else.



Or the updated version:

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Post by spot »

FourPart;1481543 wrote: Surely regardless of their Social Graces, anyone who is in the majority is, by definition, Middle Class. There are people above them. There are people below them.
It would be so were it not that "Middle Class" doesn't mean "the ones in the middle". It has very specific connotations to do with behavior, outlook, education and expectations whether it's in the USA or the UK.

Secondly, I can't think of any time in history when the middle class in England has formed the majority of the population. I would be startled to discover it had ever been true in the USA either.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by spot »

The Lancashire fracking application just bit the dust, much to the surprise of everyone in Lancashire. Three votes going the other way would have changed the result.

Council blocks Little Plumpton fracking application - BBC News
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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