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We don't hear much now about the reckless over-spending that led to bail out.

Last night I watched a news Item that left me angry to say the least.

If you have debts of under £6,000 you can now apply for a 'debt release order' rather than full blown bankrupcy.

For the small sum of £90, you can shaft your creditors to the tune of £6,000, not pay a penny and after 6 years, you are free to rack up on the plastic again. You are free to keep your property such as your plasma screen etc.

I find this an affront. I was brought up that you paid your bills above everything else and saved for the luxeries.

Surely this Is sending the wrong message?

Why can't It just be Insisted that these people pay their bloody debts even It's a very small amount a month to teach them a lesson?

I sympathise with the genuine cases where the downturn has led to unemployment but this Is just a 'get out of jail card' at the expense of the tax payer.

Surely this Is sending the wrong message?

I tend to agree. Unless you are hopelessly unemployed, that should be able to be paid back over time.

In the States, you can go to a credit counselor, who will work out a payment plan that you can afford, based upon your income, and debt.

I don't get myself into that sort of difficulty, but I don't have a problem with people who run up debt and avoid paying. The banks have got the laws stacked in their favor with tax write-offs and now they get to write-off the debt and go after your assets unconditionally, I've been reading lately where people have been locked up. The police have become industry's muscle.

All the while the banks are being bailed out for their own immoral behavior. Deregulate the system and let the banks hire private goons to collect and let's see some old fashioned shoot outs in the street. Now that's freedom.

Gosh, you two sure have a strange idea. The rich laugh & say "Look at those suckers who bailed us out & are too 'moral' to take a bailout for themselves! Let's steal more from them! They may whine but they empty their pockets for US anyway."

Right after I posted, I then saw your post Ahso. I kinda agree with you.

AnneBoleyn;1379989 wrote: Right after I posted, I then saw your post Ahso. I kinda agree with you.It would make the drug war look like armature's play, that hostility.

Ahso!;1379991 wrote: It would make the drug war look like armature's play, that hostility. My thread Is not about the banks so please keep on topic.

The subject is new legislation in the UK of a new 'Debt release order' that allows Joe Average to cop out of paying his bills for 6 years.

I have always been very "honest" & always payed what I owed. But now I feel stupid about it. I see people hold out & connive & get the same thing I paid for for free. I do want to say that those dishonest ones I find to be despicable people. It runs into their personalities. There must be some happy medium here, how to remain a person of integrity while at the same time not being a sucker. Everyone has their hands out & want more & more & more & couldn't care less about anyone else. It's hard not to be a hater. My vet wants to charge between 4 & 8 hundred dollars to remove one of my cat's teeth. Last week my son had a tooth removed for $250 & a cat costs more? What is going on?

I can't find anything about this on the internet, Oscar, perhaps you can provide a link.

Here's the best I can come up with. New Legislation – Debt Written Off – Spam Text Message | James Wiseman

Ahso!;1379996 wrote: I can't find anything about this on the internet, Oscar, perhaps you can provide a link. Apologies.... I should have said 'Relief order' not release order'.... It's the same thing anyway.



Commonly Asked Debt Relief Order DRO Questions | Debt Relief Order UK Information

There are quite a lot of hoops to jump through and restrictions to qualifying for this relief, and it only applies to the worst off. The people who would qualify for this program are in line for bankruptcy anyway and this program is merely fast-tracking the process. The legislation will obviously relieve the courts of some of their burden and apparently create some jobs.

I don't don't see this as outrageous as you do, that's for sure.

Ahso!;1380004 wrote: There are quite a lot of hoops to jump through and restrictions to qualifying for this relief, and it only applies to the worst off. The people who would qualify for this program are in line for bankruptcy anyway and this program is merely fast-tracking the process. The legislation will obviously relieve the courts of some of their burden and apparently create some jobs.

I don't don't see this as outrageous as you do, that's for sure. The news report last night stated that the highest % of population taking advantage was the young. I find that reckless, to allow someone not even 30 years old to shaft their creditors and then start again with a clean slate 6 years later.

oscar;1379980 wrote: We don't hear much now about the reckless over-spending that led to bail out.

Last night I watched a news Item that left me angry to say the least.

If you have debts of under £6,000 you can now apply for a 'debt release order' rather than full blown bankrupcy.

For the small sum of £90, you can shaft your creditors to the tune of £6,000, not pay a penny and after 6 years, you are free to rack up on the plastic again. You are free to keep your property such as your plasma screen etc.

I find this an affront. I was brought up that you paid your bills above everything else and saved for the luxeries.

Surely this Is sending the wrong message?

Why can't It just be Insisted that these people pay their bloody debts even It's a very small amount a month to teach them a lesson?

I sympathise with the genuine cases where the downturn has led to unemployment but this Is just a 'get out of jail card' at the expense of the tax payer.

Surely this Is sending the wrong message?


If you've lost your job through no fault of your own £6,000 is an awful lot of money that with added interest with very quickly spiral out of control this a way people can quickly get on top of a debt before it ends up being £,000's. As usual our favourite daily mail reader jumps to the worst possible scenario assuming everybody is on the fiddle. People taking this option haven't necessarily been foolhardy. this could be something as simple as a car loan where someone loses their job and can't pay. The most common reason people get in to financial problems are ill health or unexpectedly being made redundant. The banks for instance, have been laying off people in their thousands you just don't hear about it because it's one or two people in a branch or a few hundred in a big call centre.

What is sending the wrong message is those responsible for the financial crisis getting off with it or walking off with massive pension pots and the MP's who we should expect to look after our interests are too busy fiddling their expenses to notice meanwhile those ordinary people going about their daily lives just get made redundant and end up unable top pay their bills and losing their homes as lenders leap at the chance to pick up nice properties they can sell at a profit and clear their books. You get two months of arrears if you have a mortgage at that point the lender can take the property off you so you have to rent for a higher amount than your mortgage was - always assuming you can get somewhere to rent in the first place. Or if they take the sensible course to stop their debt liabilities from growing by getting a debt release order they have pillocks like you who should know better ranting and raving at them.

Do the country a favour, next time you meet your local MP kick him in the balls just on principle.

gmc;1380012 wrote: If you've lost your job through no fault of your own £6,000 is an awful lot of money that with added interest with very quickly spiral out of control this a way people can quickly get on top of a debt before it ends up being £,000's. As usual our favourite daily mail reader jumps to the worst possible scenario assuming everybody is on the fiddle. People taking this option haven't necessarily been foolhardy. this could be something as simple as a car loan where someone loses their job and can't pay. The most common reason people get in to financial problems are ill health or unexpectedly being made redundant. The banks for instance, have been laying off people in their thousands you just don't hear about it because it's one or two people in a branch or a few hundred in a big call centre.

What is sending the wrong message is those responsible for the financial crisis getting off with it or walking off with massive pension pots and the MP's who we should expect to look after our interests are too busy fiddling their expenses to notice meanwhile those ordinary people going about their daily lives just get made redundant and end up unable top pay their bills and losing their homes as lenders leap at the chance to pick up nice properties they can sell at a profit and clear their books. You get two months of arrears if you have a mortgage at that point the lender can take the property off you so you have to rent for a higher amount than your mortgage was - always assuming you can get somewhere to rent in the first place. Or if they take the sensible course to stop their debt liabilities from growing by getting a debt release order they have pillocks like you who should know better ranting and raving at them.

Do the country a favour, next time you meet your local MP kick him in the balls just on principle. My opening post stated I sympathised with the genuine unemployed.

I think you're missing the point, Oscar. Anyone can attempt to apply for this but that sure doesn't mean they will get past even the first round. This is strictly for those who are an easy-call for bankruptcy. The people who will qualify for this are the worst off among you. You seem to be offended at people who are applying, not necessarily being approved.

This program is not easy to qualify for by any means. Have you read your link?

Ahso!;1380018 wrote: I think you're missing the point, Oscar. Anyone can attempt to apply for this but that sure doesn't mean they will get past even the first round. This is strictly for those who are an easy-call for bankruptcy. The people who will qualify for this are the worst off among you. You seem to be offended at people who are applying, not necessarily being approved.

This program is not easy to qualify for by any means. Have you read your link? Last night.... purely as a test... my husband went on line with ficticious debts and was accepted.....

oscar;1380019 wrote: Last night.... purely as a test... my husband went on line with ficticious debts and was accepted.....According to your link, in phase one, they have only agreed to look further at your situation. The application process can only be completed with the help of a staff member (I forget the name they applied to the staff person).

Incidentally, I'd be careful if I were you because they can track your IP address.

Ahso!;1380023 wrote: According to your link, in phase one, they have only agreed to look further at your situation. The application process can only be completed with the help of a staff member (I forget the name they applied to the staff person).

Incidentally, I'd be careful if I were you because they can track your IP address. He applied on line to as a means test to see If he'd qualify. It seemed all rather easy.

oscar;1380025 wrote: He applied on line to as a means test to see If he'd qualify. It seemed all rather easy.That means nothing, you'd now need to provide proof of what you entered.

Ahso!;1380026 wrote: That means nothing, you'd now need to provide proof of what you entered. It was just a test.

As with other forms of personal insolvency, a DRO debtor’s credit rating will be affected and there will be civil and criminal penalties for those who abuse the system.



The Official Receiver is able to investigate, either on his own account or as the result of an objection from creditors, and is able to revoke the order if the debtor is found to have failed to provide a full and accurate account of their financial affairs (for example, an understatement in their assets or income). Failure to provide such an account may result in civil and criminal sanctions.


He qualified because he was lying. Go ahead and carry it through if you think it is so easy to fiddle then.

posted by oscar

My opening post stated I sympathised with the genuine unemployed.


Unemployed? Try not being able to afford your gas bill or council tax. Costs more of you don;t pay by direct debit. It really doesn't take very much to get yourself in to problems if you are on a low income, this is a way to stop it escalating out of control. How does it cost the taxpayer money? We used to have warrant sales in scotland until they were abolished in 2001. I suppose you would have approved of them - bailiffs kicking in your door and selling your goods off at whatever they felt like valuing them at and tough **** if you were too poor to afford a lawyer or made the mistake of think no one would really bother over a few hundred quid. I knew one businessman who was declared bankrupt over a disputed £500 invoice, all it took was stupidity in not getting legal advice and a magistrate that took action and declared him bankrupt without giving him a chance to settle. when really he should have given him the chance to do so. Knowing you have been wringed does not help. First thing that happens is they seize your bank account so you can't use any monies you might have to defend yourself. There's another firm I know where a supplier sent the wrong goods, refuses to accept them back and is suing for payment, any idea how much it costs to defend yourself? He's hoping they just give in and pay, happens a lot more than you would think especially big firm to a small firm. Large construction contractors are notorious for making late payments to their sub-contractors How would you like to go bankrupt being owed more than you are being sued for knowing full well you now won't be paid what you are owed and you have no money to fight it.

How's your restaurant going by the way - just don't be late paying any bills.

Stop reading the daily mail.

gmc;1380039 wrote: He qualified because he was lying. Go ahead and carry it through if you think it is so easy to fiddle then.

posted by oscar



Unemployed? Try not being able to afford your gas bill or council tax. Costs more of you don;t pay by direct debit. It really doesn't take very much to get yourself in to problems if you are on a low income, this is a way to stop it escalating out of control. How does it cost the taxpayer money? We used to have warrant sales in scotland until they were abolished in 2001. I suppose you would have approved of them - bailiffs kicking in your door and selling your goods off at whatever they felt like valuing them at and tough **** if you were too poor to afford a lawyer or made the mistake of think no one would really bother over a few hundred quid. I knew one businessman who was declared bankrupt over a disputed £500 invoice, all it took was stupidity in not getting legal advice and a magistrate that took action and declared him bankrupt without giving him a chance to settle. when really he should have given him the chance to do so. Knowing you have been wringed does not help. First thing that happens is they seize your bank account so you can't use any monies you might have to defend yourself. There's another firm I know where a supplier sent the wrong goods, refuses to accept them back and is suing for payment, any idea how much it costs to defend yourself? He's hoping they just give in and pay, happens a lot more than you would think especially big firm to a small firm. Large construction contractors are notorious for making late payments to their sub-contractors How would you like to go bankrupt being owed more than you are being sued for knowing full well you now won't be paid what you are owed and you have no money to fight it.

How's your restaurant going by the way - just don't be late paying any bills.

Stop reading the daily mail.
I am not talking about all the above... I am talking about the people who simply live beyond their means by way of credit then expect the slate to be wiped clean when they can't pay It.

Besides, there Is a wealth of help and ways of affordable repayments for those who really want to pay their debts. There are free debt advisors who can get Interest stopped and come to an arrangement for an affordable repayment.

I am also not talking about business's where bad debtors have led to you being In debt. The news Item ( on BBC ) was about under 30 year old's living beyond their means and then getting a debt release order leaving them free to start again In 6 years time.... I just feel there has to be some responsibility somewhere.

Maybe I am just old fashioned... I pay my bills, save for the luxeries, don't live on credit, don't buy what I can't afford and keep some by for emergencies.

This article was printed In 2005.... The stats are far higher now.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2005/se ... .business1

And yes, things are going well, just slower than we hoped.

Ah..... found It

Figures show more young people are resorting to debt relief orders - Business News - Yorkshire Post

AnneBoleyn;1379988 wrote: Gosh, you two sure have a strange idea. The rich laugh & say "Look at those suckers who bailed us out & are too 'moral' to take a bailout for themselves! Let's steal more from them! They may whine but they empty their pockets for US anyway."


Probably a good point, but still, what about personal responsibility?

I mean, if I signed the paper to borrow money, and then get myself into so much debt that I cannot keep up with it, is that not basically my fault?

True, there are people who, after amassing a debt load that puts them on the edge, and something happens to push them off that edge, the creditors have little sympathy and will seldom give much ground. Soon the interest and late fees pile up, and the calls start coming, and it is just too much to deal with.

I know this from my own experience. There comes a time when you have no choice, but to seek relief.

Somehow, 12000 dollars seems like a manageable amount, unless you are out of work and out of options.

I can see where the idea of being released from all that might be good for desperate people.

However I can see the potential for abuse, as well.

Not that I hold a lot of sympathy for the credit card companies and such.

LarsMac;1379983 wrote: I tend to agree. Unless you are hopelessly unemployed, that should be able to be paid back over time.

In the States, you can go to a credit counselor, who will work out a payment plan that you can afford, based upon your income, and debt.
Sure, but that's a deal struck between debtor and debtee, it's not a legislated requirement.

Ahso!;1380004 wrote: There are quite a lot of hoops to jump through and restrictions to qualifying for this relief, and it only applies to the worst off. The people who would qualify for this program are in line for bankruptcy anyway and this program is merely fast-tracking the process. The legislation will obviously relieve the courts of some of their burden and apparently create some jobs.

I don't don't see this as outrageous as you do, that's for sure.


oscar;1380009 wrote: The news report last night stated that the highest % of population taking advantage was the young. I find that reckless, to allow someone not even 30 years old to shaft their creditors and then start again with a clean slate 6 years later.
I didn't realize the thread was so long. I agree with Ahso; if only the worst off are accepted. As for the young taking advantage, six years is a very long time to have crappy credit; plus they are going to be bankrupt anyway, if Ahso is right. It might actually help the economy in the long run because without ready credit, they will be forced to learn how to manage their funds. Since they're young, they will likely pass this knowledge to the next generation.

As gmc pointed out, I can see the benefits for the genuine but there Is another side of the coin always.

When we decided we were going to go into business, we were approached by a friend of a friend of a friend who was Interested In coming In with us.

As he was a friend of a friend of a friend, we met with him to discuss the option.

Within one week of knowing this guy, he was bragging to us how many people he had ripped off and how.

He also bragged he had opened 9 resturants but as we pointed out.... he only had one In operation. The other 8 had gone under and due to our legislation, he simply moved round the corner and set up In a new name owing thousands.

His postal address turned out to be a room In his brothers house so the bailiffs couldn't sieze his furnature while he lived with his wife and kids In a council house on benefit because he claimed he only worked part time In his resturant.

His cars were In his brothers name so the bailiffs couldn't take them and the fixtures and fittings In the resturant were In his chef's name.

He hired Bangladeshi staff In the kitchen and payed them £2 an hour. And boy.... did he think he was clever ???

When we got down to the finer points of costings, It turned out there wasn't a supplier within 100 square miles who would give him credit nor a bank to give him a business loan.

He even talked about the new resturant he was opening 5 miles away In a few months when the recievers shut that one down.

As Mr O and I laughed at him and made a quick exit... he assured us we were stupid to even try to make a success of a resturant by going legit and above board and all his family did business that way and screwed the system along with the DSS...

So for all the genuine cases In the UK right now..... there's a whole bunch of arssewipes like him.

Ahso!;1379987 wrote: I don't get myself into that sort of difficulty, but I don't have a problem with people who run up debt and avoid paying. The banks have got the laws stacked in their favor with tax write-offs and now they get to write-off the debt and go after your assets unconditionally, I've been reading lately where people have been locked up. The police have become industry's muscle.

All the while the banks are being bailed out for their own immoral behavior. Deregulate the system and let the banks hire private goons to collect and let's see some old fashioned shoot outs in the street. Now that's freedom.


You're making a huge assumption there - that the debts that people are avoiding paying at to the banks.

More often than not, where the debt is that small it is to a small business or three - and they get no compensation for the loss. It is a spiral of debt as the small business then goes under and its debts take down the supplier who's debt takes down ....