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Atheists do not believe in God. Why? Because they think God is a Person. God refers actually to the State. If you see on the back of the US dollar bill that says, " In God We Trust, " it means that you trust in the United States of America whose head is the US President Barack Obama. He is the Supreme Personality of God simply because by majority the Americans chose US Pres Obama to represent God. In other words, those who do not believe in the United States of America believe perhaps in the People`s Republic of China.

rajakrsna;1391434 wrote: Atheists do not believe in God. Why? Because they think God is a Person. God refers actually to the State. If you see on the back of the US dollar bill that says, " In God We Trust, " it means that you trust in the United States of America whose head is the US President Barack Obama. He is the Supreme Personality of God simply because by majority the Americans chose US Pres Obama to represent God. In other words, those who do not believe in the United States of America believe perhaps in the People`s Republic of China.


You've been drinking haven't you?

Lon;1391436 wrote: You've been drinking haven't you?


Common sense, my dear Watson. Common sense.

rajakrsna;1391434 wrote: Atheists do not believe in God. Why? Because they think God is a Person. God refers actually to the State. If you see on the back of the US dollar bill that says, " In God We Trust, " it means that you trust in the United States of America whose head is the US President Barack Obama. He is the Supreme Personality of God simply because by majority the Americans chose US Pres Obama to represent God. In other words, those who do not believe in the United States of America believe perhaps in the People`s Republic of China.


lol. Just lol.

I am uncertain if this is some new type of a logical fallacy or just pure nonsense. I will have to give it a thought.

EDIT: Righto, this is no logical fallacy, this is just nonsensical, apparently trying to tie the first secular state in the world (the US) to some image of a god as a state rather than a personal god. Not even sure where he was going with this.

The United States of America were founded as the first secular country in the world, by founders whose beliefs ranged from deists to secularists. The "christian nation" crap began in late 1970s during the vehement USA vs USSR stalemate. Even the "under god" statement was not present in the US Pledge of Allegiance until 1948.

The presidential body of the United States is a secular position of power, granting no direct control to the country, serving as a second opinion next to the parliament/senate and the joint chiefs of staff respectively. President Obama does not represent a deity, but instead is the head of state and head of the government - the person representing the current views of the ruling party in the country, and its people by proxy. The presidential position cannot act without the senate's consent, and is mostly representative bar in war times.

And, both USA and China exist, if that was some weird analogy that eluded me somehow.

Townes;1391454 wrote: I am uncertain if this is some new type of a logical fallacy or just pure nonsense. I will have to give it a thought.

No, wait, found what I was looking for before I posted this.



EDIT: Scratch that, gotta look further, so far it only qualifies as nonsense.


Only the US President can pardon an American sentenced to death for third degree murder. Only the US President can sign a bill into a Law. When the US President says, " We go to war!"" We go to war. In other words, Americans who do not believe in the US President who represents the American people is an atheist. Since the US President was electives from the collective voice of the American people then there`s meaning to the dictum that " The voice of the people is indeed the voice of God?"

rajakrsna;1391456 wrote: Is the Queen of England worshiped as if she were a Goddess? Only the US President can pardon a hardened criminal sentenced to death. Only the US President can sign a bill into a Law. When The US President says, " We go to war!"" We go to war. In other words, those who do not believe in the US President who represents the American people I consider the unbeliever American an atheist. Is it not the true the voice of the people the voice of God?


Man I hope you're just a troll. You'd be great at it.

If, on the other hand, you mean what you say: go get help. For real.

I think the "IN GOD WE TRUST" is nothing other than American arrogance, pure and simple.

It's Dick Cheney who decides when America goes to war. Isn't that right?

rajakrsna;1391456 wrote: Is the Queen of England worshiped as if she were a Goddess? Only the US President can pardon a hardened criminal sentenced to death. Only the US President can sign a bill into a Law. When The US President says, " We go to war!"" We go to war. In other words, those who do not believe in the US President who represents the American people I consider the unbeliever American an atheist. Is it not the true the voice of the people the voice of God?
The queen of England is no goddess, and her people worship her in no way that you are describing. They see her as the unifier of the British spirit, in a way. (checked with a friend in the UK just now, he says what I am writing about the Queen sounds about right, also he had something to add about your statement: "Bollocks!")

The US president cannot singlehandedly declare a war. This is decided by the joint chiefs of staff, and they can stop any such act, even to a point of impeaching him.

The voice of the people is the voice of their own, a deity of any sort is not even proven to exist. The people within a nation range in their beliefs or lack of thereof.

Savage;1391457 wrote: Man I hope you're just a troll. You'd be great at it.

If, on the other hand, you mean what you say: go get help. For real.


Only the US President can pardon an American sentenced to death for third degree murder. Only the US President can sign a bill into a Law. When the US President says, " We go to war!"" We go to war. In other words, Americans who do not believe in the US President who represents the American people is an atheist. Since the US President was elected from the collective voice of the American people then there`s meaning to the dictum that " The voice of the people indeed is the voice of God?"

Note: Please do not quote me immediately when I reply to a post because I still have to delete words or a sentence that may not be too close to call.

Townes;1391460 wrote: The queen of England is no goddess, and her people worship her in no way that you are describing. They see her as the unifier of the British spirit, in a way. (checked with a friend in the UK just now, he says what I am writing about the Queen sounds about right, also he had something to add about your statement: "Bollocks!")


Nobody owns land in England because it`s owned by the Queen. ( That`s what I been told.)



Townes;1391460 wrote: The US president cannot singlehandedly declare a war. This is decided by the joint chiefs of staff, and they can stop any such act, even to a point of impeaching him.

The voice of the people is the voice of their own, a deity of any sort is not even proven to exist. The people within a nation range in their beliefs or lack of thereof.


Even if the joint chiefs of staff approved in declaring war against say Afghanistan yet it`s still the US President who has the last word.

Townes;1391460 wrote:

The US president cannot singlehandedly declare a war. This is decided by the joint chiefs of staff, and they can stop any such act, even to a point of impeaching him.

I've never heard this before. My understanding is that impeachment of a US president can only be done by The House of Representatives and tried before the senate. Also, while the Joint Chiefs and the Pentagon might hold lots of influence, only a President can take America to War, while the official declaration is done by our congress.

I think I have that right.

This is why I added specifically "unless in war times" in my post a few posts above. Typically in a parliamentary government it is the prime minister and the president as a duo, where in president-centric systems he/she does have a say in such matters. But in all honesty, this is more for show, it is the chiefs of staff that are the real thinkers, coupled with the president's advisors. Rarely does a head of state override institutions' decisions, but yea, theoretically it is possible, albeit has not happened to date, to my knowledge.

Ahso!;1391464 wrote: I've never heard this before. My understanding is that impeachment of a US president can only be done by The House of Representatives and tried before the senate. Also, while the Joint Chiefs and the Pentagon might hold lots of influence, only a President can take America to War, while the official declaration is done by our congress.

I think I have that right.
I will check my facts, you might be right about this.

Townes;1391465 wrote: This is why I added specifically "unless in war times" in my post a few posts above. Typically in a parliamentary government it is the prime minister and the president as a duo, where in president-centric systems he/she does have a say in such matters. But in all honesty, this is more for show, it is the chiefs of staff that are the real thinkers, coupled with the president's advisors. Rarely does a head of state override institutions' decisions, but yea, theoretically it is possible, albeit has not happened to date, to my knowledge.


I did not say the Prime Minister or the President of England is God. I was referring to the US President. England does not have a currency that says, " In God We Trust" only the United States of America. In other words the American people have placed God ( US President ) at the center of their daily lives. To become an American citizen you have to memorize the 50 States of America & her Presidents starting from George Washington. That is how patriotic are the Americans to their country. Unlike in England where the Royal Family is always given priority more than her Prime Minister or President.

rajakrsna;1391467 wrote: I did not say the Prime Minister or the President of England is God. I was referring to the US President. England does not have a currency that says, " In God We Trust" only the United States of America. In other words the American people have placed God ( US President ) at the center of their daily lives. To become an American citizen you have to memorize the 50 States of America & her Presidents starting from George Washington. That is how patriotic are the Americans to their country. Unlike in England where the Royal Family is always given priority more than her Prime Minister or President.I think Raja's point here has to do with conditioning, and if I'm correct, it's a legitimate position, to a degree.

The US "IN GOD WE TRUST" means, in short, that we listen or answer to nobody but God. As I said earlier, it's pure arrogance, and is a good argument for why America needs to become atheistic.

Did some quick reading, the president cannot declare war on his own. Only the congress.

Wikipedia also states that, seems that the quote there is legit. Actually, I think Wikipedia has a pretty accurate representation to the US President's position, we all seem more or less off target.

Honestly, does it matter that much what's on your nation's currency? I can unerstand your position, I would not like it if it says 'In God we trust' on my money, but I wouldn't care too much.

I'm just blown away by the far-going and utterly laughable conclusions rajakrsna is making.

So who says there`s no God? There is a God. In America, he is the US President Barack Obama. Proof? Go to America & yell in public, " I will kill the President of the United States!" & let us see what happens to you after doing that. Or you yell in public in London with these words, " I will kill the Queen of England!!!" Let us see what the Brits will do to you.

Townes;1391469 wrote: Did some quick reading, the president cannot declare war on his own. Only the congress.

Wikipedia also states that, seems that the quote there is legit. Actually, I think Wikipedia has a pretty accurate representation to the US President's position, we all seem more or less off target.It's true that only the Congress has the authority to "declare" war, but the president may take America to war for national security reason before an official declaration by congress.

This issue has been a bone of contention ever since I can recall.

rajakrsna;1391471 wrote: So who says there`s no God? There is a God. In America, he is the US President Barack Obama. Proof? Go to American & yell in public, " I will kill the President of the United States!" & let us see what happens to you after doing that. Or you yell in public in London with these words, " I will kill the Queen of England!!!" Let us see what the Brits will do to you.


Erm, what has that has to do with anything?

Aree you saying people will let you kill whoever you want except the US president and the English Queen and therefor they are God?

...



Really?

rajakrsna;1391437 wrote: [QUOTE=Lon;1391436]You've been drinking haven't you?


Common sense, my dear Watson. Common sense.
I agree!

Ahso!;1391468 wrote: I think Raja's point here has to do with conditioning, and if I'm correct, it's a legitimate position, to a degree.

The US "IN GOD WE TRUST" means, in short, that we listen or answer to nobody but God. As I said earlier, it's pure arrogance, and is a good argument for why America needs to become atheistic.
Ah, duno, I am in no position to state that for the US, as I am a Bulgarian and thus I do not feel I have the right to say how another country should be governed. Lucky for me, here we are a secular country with a bit different church-state separation - we do have a state religion (Orthodox Christianity), and it gets some funding by the government, hence we have no teleganvelists, etc. begging for money, and teaching of anything religious in a school outside of specific classes is considered both rude and absurd by the general population, we are as secular as it goes in this case - there is an opt-in religion class that a child can choose to attend, but intruduction to any religion into, say, science, leads to huge scandals. Religion-driven agendas are also non-existant - gay rights are lower by general population mistrust, sadly, however issues like the right of a woman to choose are set in stone - the government has no say in a woman's freedoms, including abortion.

A secular state actually grants more religious freedoms than a theocratic one, as all religions are treated equally, nobody is mistreated because of their religion or their lack of one (especially here, we have 15% Muslim population, largest in the European Union, but since they are natives here for 500 or so years, we have no issues with them, and religious holidays are even celebrated together by households of different or no religions), and there is no nonsense like the US Christian Right and their agendas.

Savage;1391470 wrote: Honestly, does it matter that much what's on your nation's currency? I can unerstand your position, I would not like it if it says 'In God we trust' on my money, but I wouldn't care too much.

I'm just blown away by the far-going and utterly laughable conclusions rajakrsna is making.It doesn't matter much to me either personally (I'll accept and spend the stuff either way), except for the fact that I'd like any official or public announcements regarding God gone. Too much of the divisiveness we endure here in America centers on the God thing.

As for Raja not making sense: I'm thinking most of it is language and cultural differences.

Savage;1391473 wrote: Erm, what has that has to do with anything?

Aree you saying people will let you kill whoever you want except the US president and the English Queen and therefor they are God?

...



Really?


Yes, man. The Americans do not want a repeat of history, the assassination of US Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy.

rajakrsna;1391477 wrote: Yes, man. The Americans do not want a repeat of history, the assassination of US Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy.


But how does that make the US president 'God'?

Perhaps your definition of 'God' is somwhat, unconventional.

Accountable;1391474 wrote: I agree! That might be another reason for Raja's interesting posts.

Hmmm...maybe you're kind of right. How about 'God's a state...of mind?" Or better yet, "God's a state...of spirit?":D

Savage;1391478 wrote: But how does that make the US president 'God'?

Perhaps your definition of 'God' is somwhat, unconventional.


Question: Can God, the President of the United States perform a miracle?

Answer: To end the Pacific War which had cost countless of lives to the American people US President Truman dropped 2 A-Bombs in Hiroshima & Nagasaki, Japan. The miracles Jesus of Nazareth performed ( resurrecting Lazarus from the grave, etc) pales in comparison.

Ahso!;1391479 wrote: That might be another reason for Raja's interesting posts.


My father who`ll be 83 on May 29 drinks 4-8 bottles of cold San Miguel beer per day ( 9am-12pm-4PM-9PM ). He`s a pathologist & still practicing family medicine was trained at the Leonard Wood Memorial Research Foundation in West Virginia, Washington DC on a scholarship grant ( 1960-63). He returned to the Philippines & vowed not going back to the Land of Milk & Honey ( Las Vegas, etc ) because he missed the cockfights here. He breeds roosters for cockfighting.

So, by definition God`s a State where she elects city mayors & governors to public office. The governor may run for congress or senate. In that pool, they elect a representative who they feel deserves to be the next US President representing the 51 States of America. The States can`t be united without a US President. True or False? Take the case of US President George Bush Jr. It was too close to call when Gore won by a margin of people`s votes against Bush but was nullified by the Electoral Congress when the latter won against the former.

rajakrsna;1391482 wrote: Question: Can God, the President of the United States perform a miracle?

Answer: To end the Pacific War which had cost countless of lives to the American people US President Truman dropped 2 A-Bombs in Hiroshima & Nagasaki, Japan. The miracles Jesus of Nazareth performed ( resurrecting Lazarus from the grave, etc) pales in comparison.
I'm sorry but :wah::wah::wah:

But the US President of the United States pales in comparison to Krishna lifting the Govardhana Hill to cover Vrndavan from the deluge caused by Indra the King of Heaven. It was Krishna`s associates-the Vishnudutas who blew up Sodom & Gomorrah to smithereens. I`m sorry too if you can not comment, so to speak, on a movie you have not seen it yet. You can not therefore conclude there`s no God. What you know is only the tip of the ice berg.

rajakrsna;1391467 wrote: I did not say the Prime Minister or the President of England is God. I was referring to the US President. England does not have a currency that says, " In God We Trust" only the United States of America. In other words the American people have placed God ( US President ) at the center of their daily lives. To become an American citizen you have to memorize the 50 States of America & her Presidents starting from George Washington. That is how patriotic are the Americans to their country. Unlike in England where the Royal Family is always given priority more than her Prime Minister or President.


England does not have a currency that says in god we trust because the last king that tried to tell his people what religion to follow got his head chopped off, the ensuing conflict fought over who should rule - parliament or kings by divine right was so horrific that some argue we have had an aversion to religious extremism burned in to our psyche. Christian fundamentalists screw things up for everybody when they get their hands on power, if you want to be free keep religion out of it, something the writers of your constitution know only too well learning from the experiences of their one time mother country. Americans are the only ones that believe their bill of rights is an original document, everybody else knows it was a blatant rip off from an agreement of the people written in 1647 by the levellers.

I hope you are just winding people up it would be sad to think you are serious and believed the crap you are coming out with.

gmc;1391492 wrote: England does not have a currency that says in god we trust because the last king that tried to tell his people what religion to follow got his head chopped off, the ensuing conflict fought over who should rule - parliament or kings by divine right was so horrific that some argue we have had an aversion to religious extremism burned in to our psyche. Christian fundamentalists screw things up for everybody when they get their hands on power, if you want to be free keep religion out of it, something the writers of your constitution know only too well learning from the experiences of their one time mother country. Americans are the only ones that believe their bill of rights is an original document, everybody else knows it was a blatant rip off from an agreement of the people written in 1647 by the levellers.

I hope you are just winding people up it would be sad to think you are serious and believed the crap you are coming out with.


That`s precisely why some Englishmen left to other lands because of this controversial issue & settled in America. They were the pilgrims-the forefathers of the American people who believed in the divine. Guided accordingly by God himself they were able to settle their differences by vote (democracy). That the voice of the American people is the voice of God. So, whoever becomes the head of state is deemed to be chosen by God to rule his kingdom here on earth.. There`s no sense in calling the 51 States of America UNITED if the American people are not One with God.

Dude really.

Think for a minute.

Savage;1391506 wrote: Dude really.

Think for a minute.


You are a Bulgarian, right?

rajakrsna;1391509 wrote: You are a Bulgarian, right?


I'm a Belgian. Why?

Savage;1391511 wrote: I'm a Belgian. Why?


Are you representing Belgians by calling yourself, Savage?

rajakrsna;1391512 wrote: Are you representing Belgians by calling yourself, Savage?


Dear me! Beginning to think you like stirring up trouble for the sake of it raj.

Betty Boop;1391513 wrote: Dear me! Beginning to think you like stirring up trouble for the sake of it raj.


Because he suspects I`m a troll.

rajakrsna;1391514 wrote: Because he suspects I`m a troll.


Not suspecting, hoping. Sadly it seems you're not.

Only the US President can pardon an American sentenced to death for third degree murder.
The US President is not allowed to pardon state crimes, only federal. Third degree murder is manslaughter & there is no death penalty for that. You are also factually incorrect on your next two points. The president can only sign Federal bills into law & if congress does not agree, there is no funding for military pursuits, although the Presidents do seem to get their way on this.

:-3I have come to the conclusion that while some of raj's post are clear most are off the wall and are incomprehensible to most readers on this forum. It has been alluded to that he may be a Troll (I personally don't think so). He apparently has followed in his father's footsteps and became a physician himself. He said his father was a Pathologist (my own secret ambition) and that was a clear and understandable post of his. All this other bilge that he has posted smarts of either pulling one's leg or a mental disorder. Which ever, I will continue to read your posts raj in anticipation that there will be more of a understandable content.:-3

AnneBoleyn;1391525 wrote: The US President is not allowed to pardon state crimes, only federal. Third degree murder is manslaughter & there is no death penalty for that. You are also factually incorrect on your next two points. The president can only sign Federal bills into law & if congress does not agree, there is no funding for military pursuits, although the Presidents do seem to get their way on this.


What? You mean the President of the United States can not pardon a man in death row? Then I must be referring to the President of the Philippines where everything here is patterned after the United States. Ours is a Republican form of government separating the Church & State. There was even a priest assigned in the northern part of the Philippines who ran in the election for governor against a gambling lord & won. It`s only here were politicians solicit votes from a solid religious organization INK ( Iglesia Ni Kristo ) which has millions of voters on its fold. The Philippines was once under the United States of America. The Filipinos by heart love America. They pleaded & pleaded from Uncle Sam that the country be one of the States of America but unfortunately the former Philippine President Ferdinand E. Marcos did the unthinkable & declared Martial Law on 1972. Who became a dictator until he was kicked out from his office in a bloodless revolution ( People`s Power ) in 1986. I dreamed the Philippines become the number 52 State of America like Hawaii & Guam. Why? Because if ever we become part of the United States chances are the Philippines will be able to produce a President of the United States. Imagine how many there are qualified voters in the Philippines. Is it roughly 50-60 million? Plus how many are there in the United States who are Filipino-Americans? That will be the day when the world produced the most powerful representative of God in the world- a Catholic Filipino-American President of the United States.

If it`s God it tastes good.

rajakrsna;1391493 wrote: That`s precisely why some Englishmen left to other lands because of this controversial issue & settled in America. They were the pilgrims-the forefathers of the American people who believed in the divine. Guided accordingly by God himself they were able to settle their differences by vote (democracy). That the voice of the American people is the voice of God. So, whoever becomes the head of state is deemed to be chosen by God to rule his kingdom here on earth.. There`s no sense in calling the 51 States of America UNITED if the American people are not One with God.


Eleven of the first fifteen american presidents were of ulster scots descent, in total 17 of the 44 have been of ulster scots descent. your heritage and constitution owes more and also less to englishmen than I think you know or appreciate. The last thing any god fearing protestant will accept is the notion of the divine right of presidents. The pilgrim fathers were protestant not catholic the notion of the divine right of kings was anathema to them. ou have only had one catholic president and he was assassinated.

gmc;1391556 wrote: ou have only had one catholic president and he was assassinated.


why was he assassinated? because atheists like oswald hate catholics?

rajakrsna;1391559 wrote: why was he assassinated? because atheists like oswald hate catholics?


Was oswald an atheist? If he was I seriously doubt that was his reason for killing him. atheists don't hate catholics, protestants do, On the other hand i don't have to look very far or very far back to find protestant terrorists killing catholics or Catholic terrorists killing protestants. His problem was with fellow Christians who feared a catholic president would take instruction from the pope. Of course as an american you are probably very well aware of all that.

John F Kennedy speech - I Believe in an America Where the Separation of Church and State is Absolute - Beliefnet.com



I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish--where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source--where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials--and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.

For while this year it may be a Catholic against whom the finger of suspicion is pointed, in other years it has been, and may someday be again, a Jew--or a Quaker--or a Unitarian--or a Baptist. It was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, for example, that helped lead to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom. Today I may be the victim--but tomorrow it may be you--until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped at a time of great national peril.

Finally, I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end--where all men and all churches are treated as equal--where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice--where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind--and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their works in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.




Some battles never end do they? Bet his religion would still be a problem were he standing today.