It's a crying shame...

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:59 pm

that people keep bickering around here!

Seriously, grow up the lot of you before you drive all the members away, including me.

It doesn't take much to avoid the people you dislike, just ignore them, unless of course you just love the drama of it all :rolleyes:

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:14 pm

Where's the latest bust up ?

Have I missed something ?

But seriously I agree.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:23 pm

Bruv;1396633 wrote: Where's the latest bust up ?

Have I missed something ?

But seriously I agree. I also agree. Spot had posted this afternoon on the sandwich thread he's no longer be responding to my posts and I had mentally agreed to do the same. That was hours ago. It was over and finished but here we are now with a new drama. Considering the last spat was hours ago, It begs the question, why create a new drama?

I won't be responding to this pot stirring. I have reported the post.

Post by **spot** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:30 pm

By all means remove all new bicker-posts on sight into a bicker thread in the compost area. I'm sure it would work wonders. Reason and common sense haven't stopped her, maybe composting will.

Will someone please go back to that damned sandwich thread and confirm none of it was my doing? I will not be blamed or held responsible for her pissing wherever I post.

On a point of information I note that she's subsequently edited out the more obvious goading which originally consisted ofThere are a few reports on the net about this story and likewise, nowhere does It state they were all for his own consumption. You are merely guessing they were all for himself.

Maybe he'll give a press conference as to how many people he Indeed ordered for.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:32 pm

"Sandwich thread"?

Or sandwich spread ?

One I have missed......I should get out more. No that doesn't work.....must stay in more.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:54 pm

There we go.... All raked up again.... Job done....

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:57 pm

I'm referring to the petty games that have been going on here for weeks, months, we're probably into years now. Spot isn't go to win, Oscar isn't going to win. It's like watching a long term soap of an old married bickering couple.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:01 pm

oscar;1396639 wrote: There we go.... All raked up again.... Job done....

You do make me laugh, just because it happened yesterday doesn't mean it's all done and dusted. Other members that are not here on a daily basis are still going to see that thread tomorrow, the day after, next week etc etc they could just as easily put in their two penneth just as I have.

There have been lots of threads that I was going to post in, then on reading through the thread it has been taken off track with a load of bickering which quite frankly stops me. Why do ordinary members here want to get lost in the quagmire of the petty arguments.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:12 pm

Betty Boop;1396641 wrote: You do make me laugh, just because it happened yesterday doesn't mean it's all done and dusted. Other members that are not here on a daily basis are still going to see that thread tomorrow, the day after, next week etc etc they could just as easily put in their two penneth just as I have.

There have been lots of threads that I was going to post in, then on reading through the thread it has been taken off track with a load of bickering which quite frankly stops me. Why do ordinary members here want to get lost in the quagmire of the petty arguments.

Betty, maybe I was judgemental and a little harsh Initially because maybe you had the best of Intentions by posting this thread.

As you know, many of us here are on facebook etc and do actually talk to each other. There Is not a quagmire of petty arguments. There Is an odd spat. I myself deliberately refrain from personal Insults until the first personal Insult Is thrown at me just for the record as many members have noticed.

It Is not the odd spat that keeps people from coming here. In fact, watch how many guests watch a thread when there Is a spat !!!!

Because as members we do talk to each other, I can tell you that one of the things that Is stopping members posting Is the continual over analysing of any thread posted. Many threads of late have had the origin questioned, the source branded a lair and even the motive behind the posting of the thread. It has stopped members posting new threads and It has only come from two people, Spot and Ahso.

All forums survive spats... god forbid, In the real world, not everyone gets on but It Is the tiresome pulling threads to pieces that Is stopping some people from posting.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:18 pm

I was accused of starting that baby chimp thread to incite hatred and discontent here. I've seen cute dog threads turn into vicious name calling. Maybe I'm sounding a little defensive here but it seems that even the 'nice' threads end up getting trashed, along with the poster that started them.

By the way, has anyone seen Tabby recently?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:22 pm

SnoozeAgain;1396646 wrote: I was accused of starting that baby chimp thread to incite hatred and discontent here. I've seen cute dog threads turn into vicious name calling. Maybe I'm sounding a little defensive here but it seems that even the 'nice' threads end up getting trashed, along with the poster that started them.

By the way, has anyone seen Tabby recently?

Yes you were and by who ????

Betty

We are as equally sick to death of the trashing of threads Betty !!! Put a stop to that and more members will start posting again and there will be no cause for the spats In the first place.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:23 pm

oscar;1396645 wrote: Betty, maybe I was judgemental and a little harsh Initially because maybe you had the best of Intentions by posting this thread.

As you know, many of us here are on facebook etc and do actually talk to each other. There Is not a quagmire of petty arguments. There Is an odd spat. I myself deliberately refrain from personal Insults until the first personal Insult Is thrown at me just for the record as many members have noticed.

It Is not the odd spat that keeps people from coming here. In fact, watch how many guests watch a thread when there Is a spat !!!!

Because as members we do talk to each other, I can tell you that one of the things that Is stopping members posting Is the continual over analysing of any thread posted. Many threads of late have had the origin questioned, the source branded a lair and even the motive behind the posting of the thread. It has stopped members posting new threads and It has only come from two people, Spot and Ahso.

All forums survive spats... god forbid, In the real world, not everyone gets on but It Is the tiresome pulling threads to pieces that Is stopping some people from posting.

Picking apart though is actually having a discussion over something. Calling each other names is not. Neither is goading people or demanding links to back things up when such things evidently cannot be backed up. If people want to participate and bring other findings (links) into the matter then how is that not discussion. No one person can post here and not think that someone is going to disagree. If people can't cope with being disagreed with then they need to stick to cosy facebook where they can control what's happening on their page. They needn't be in a general forum where differing opinions make for threads that make some of us really think about the matter in hand, where we're forced to view things from other perspectives, all that's good, it's all about learning.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:25 pm

Betty Boop;1396650 wrote: Picking apart though is actually having a discussion over something. Calling each other names is not. Neither is goading people or demanding links to back things up when such things evidently cannot be backed up. If people want to participate and bring other findings (links) into the matter then how is that not discussion. No one person can post here and not think that someone is going to disagree. If people can't cope with being disagreed with then they need to stick to cosy facebook where they can control what's happening on their page. They needn't be in a general forum where differing opinions make for threads that make some of us really think about the matter in hand, where we're forced to view things from other perspectives, all that's good, it's all about learning.
I absolutely agree with you however,

members have historically had links or evidence demanded on this forum until such time a member asks him for evidence and then toys are thrown out of the pram. If you set the rules In the first place, don't whine when the same Is asked of you eh ?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:25 pm

oscar;1396649 wrote: Yes you were and by who ????

Betty

We are as equally sick to death of the trashing of threads Betty !!! Put a stop to that and more members will start posting again and there will be no cause for the spats In the first place.

Fine, if you like as soon I see a post that I consider to be an example of ongoing bickering I shall place it in a 'bickering for bickering's sake' thread.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:27 pm

Betty Boop;1396652 wrote: Fine, if you like as soon I see a post that I consider to be an example of ongoing bickering I shall place it in a 'bickering for bickering's sake' thread.

Who decides what Is bickering ? You can't... what you can do is stop Innocent threads being trashed In the first place for absolutely no reason other than the trashee thinks It makes them look Intelligent.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:28 pm

I've got no problem with differing opinions but when someone relentlessly posts over and over, for days on end about dogs being slaves when the thread was originally a cute video, then something's wrong. It's taken the fun out many of the threads when they were intended as something cute and funny and you've got people getting over-analytical and causing other posters to feel attacked.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:30 pm

oscar;1396653 wrote: Who decides what Is bickering ? You can't... what you can do is stop Innocent threads being trashed In the first place for absolutely no reason other than the trashee thinks It makes them look Intelligent.

You ask me to do something and then in the next post you tell me I can't :wah:

I know what the long term bickering consists of, I've read enough of it over the years, that's at the point that threads get trashed.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:39 pm

Betty Boop;1396655 wrote: You ask me to do something and then in the next post you tell me I can't :wah:

I know what the long term bickering consists of, I've read enough of it over the years, that's at the point that threads get trashed. I don't agree. No-one goes Into a thread for a bicker... It starts when as Snooze pointed out, a thread Is posted just for a cute video etc and In comes all the same old same old over analysing, physco mumbo jumbo, question the origin of the video, question the source of the video etc etc etc.... That Is why no-one Is posting here. The bickering only starts when the poster gets sick to death of having their threads trashed by the same people over and over again and It's the same two people doing It time after time.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:39 pm

SnoozeAgain;1396654 wrote: I've got no problem with differing opinions but when someone relentlessly posts over and over, for days on end about dogs being slaves when the thread was originally a cute video, then something's wrong. It's taken the fun out many of the threads when they were intended as something cute and funny and you've got people getting over-analytical and causing other posters to feel attacked.

I'm glad I missed that one then, or I've probably just put it out of mind. Maybe the posters with such opinions could be more respectful and start another discussion thread, or maybe we can do it for them by moving their posts.

I think there's a distinctive difference between people. Some people are happy to just state their opinion and walk away, popping back if others bring up other points they're interested in. Then there's the type of person that's got to be prolific in every thread, got to have the last word, got to stamp their word down with authority and if in their perception no one is listening they just go on and on.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:41 pm

Betty Boop;1396660 wrote: I'm glad I missed that one then, or I've probably just put it out of mind. Maybe the posters with such opinions could be more respectful and start another discussion thread, or maybe we can do it for them by moving their posts.

I think there's a distinctive difference between people. Some people are happy to just state their opinion and walk away, popping back if others bring up other points they're interested in. Then there's the type of person that's got to be prolific in every thread, got to have the last word, got to stamp their word down with authority and if in their perception no one is listening they just go on and on.

There are so few people posting on this forum of late that of course, the same members keep coming up.

WAMOMMA · Post by **WAMOMMA** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:26 pm

With all due respect, this is never going to change. Ive been in and out of this forum for about 8 years now and it seems cyclical. For a few months its fluff and serious and polite discussions, then its spatting between groups and then heavy regulation and then we are back to square one. It just "is what it is".....no better, no worse...just is.

WAMOMMA · Post by **WAMOMMA** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:29 pm

Also, Ive had spats and Ive taken them personally, Ive seen the pettiness and downright evil. Maybe Ive grown or just decided to take life less seriously. I dont remember all the people Ive insulted. But I have made some long time friends. Snooze for one. Spot named our boat inadvertently....its just the internet, you make connections and you dont. Just keep in mind, its hard to detect tone and intonation over the internet....

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:16 am

WAMOMMA;1396673 wrote: Also, Ive had spats and Ive taken them personally, Ive seen the pettiness and downright evil. Maybe Ive grown or just decided to take life less seriously. I dont remember all the people Ive insulted. But I have made some long time friends. Snooze for one. Spot named our boat inadvertently....its just the internet, you make connections and you dont. Just keep in mind, its hard to detect tone and intonation over the internet....

Isn't it just! I think the problem is everyone needs to step back and then react rather than respond in a knee jerk fashion.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:56 am

Here's a perfect example of what some of us have to go through after posting an amusing and innocent thread. I don't remember this kind of harassment before (and I'm embarrassed I prolonged the 'discussion', I've since put this man on ignore.)

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/pets- ... -does.html

Once again, has anyone seen Tabby recently?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:05 am

SnoozeAgain;1396679 wrote: Here's a perfect example of what some of us have to go through after posting an amusing and innocent thread. I don't remember this kind of harassment before (and I'm embarrassed I prolonged the 'discussion', I've since put this man on ignore.)

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/pets- ... -does.html

Snooze, what is it exactly you'd like to see going forward? What will bring resolution to you?

Post by **spot** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:33 am

WAMOMMA;1396673 wrote: Spot named our boat inadvertently....Though that was several usernames ago. A startlingly elegant boat, though

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:52 am

Betty Boop;1396660 wrote: .......... got to have the last word, got to stamp their word down with authority and if in their perception no one is listening they just go on and on.

Seriously, I recognise myself there, as Vic Reeves says "You wouldn't let it lie" that's me that is...... sometimes.

*Point noted*

Deep breathe....deep breathe....walk away.......just walk away.....slowly...don't look back.

Post by **spot** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:31 am

WAMOMMA;1396672 wrote: With all due respect, this is never going to change. Ive been in and out of this forum for about 8 years now and it seems cyclical. For a few months its fluff and serious and polite discussions, then its spatting between groups and then heavy regulation and then we are back to square one. It just "is what it is".....no better, no worse...just is.I note that we've had a year and a half of peer regulation with no moderator infraction or banning at all - looking at the logs there are just three non-spam infractions over that entire period, all three aimed at avoiding lawsuits.

If this thread's coming to a consensus that moderators will from now on compost goading inflammatory posts as they occur, as opposed to composting entire threads after they've gone haywire, I'd back the notion. I regard myself as a long-suffering victim of online bullying on this site, anything at all which might put a stop to it will be welcome. And anyone who thinks I'm joking has got it completely wrong, I'm not. And I particularly don't want any response to this post from the person concerned, thank you.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:43 am

spot;1396686 wrote: If this thread's coming to a consensus that moderators will from now on compost goading inflammatory posts as they occur, as opposed to composting entire threads after they've gone haywire, I'd back the notion.I vote in the affirmative as well.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:46 am

spot;1396686 wrote: I note that we've had a year and a half of peer regulation with no moderator infraction or banning at all - looking at the logs there are just three non-spam infractions over that entire period, all three aimed at avoiding lawsuits.

If this thread's coming to a consensus that moderators will from now on compost goading inflammatory posts as they occur, as opposed to composting entire threads after they've gone haywire, I'd back the notion. I regard myself as a long-suffering victim of online bullying on this site, anything at all which might put a stop to it will be welcome. And anyone who thinks I'm joking has got it completely wrong, I'm not. And I particularly don't want any response to this post from the person concerned, thank you.

You mean me, don't you. It's always all about me, me, me.

Post by **spot** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:16 am

SnoozeAgain;1396689 wrote: You mean me, don't you. It's always all about me, me, me.

I don't mean you in the slightest. I'd quite happily have you police it if you'd take the job on.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:19 am

Let's make something clear here...

Whenever there Is a problem, there will be one maybe two common denominators.

..

Find the common denominator and you find the root cause... Standard trouble shooting practice.

The Spats and the down right evil as Wammona puts It were taking place on this forum years before I even joined. They were happening when I joined.

The spats continued during both of my long absences from this forum and the spats continue now.

All of the spats Involved various members. Jones, Red Glitter etc etc but Spot was either right In the thick of those spats or he had Instigated them.

If spats on this forum only begun with my joining and ceased during my absences, then I would be the common denominator but I am not. If I left this forum today, It Is rather predictable that the spats would continue with a different day, different thread, and different member.

No-one seems to have paid any attention to the point Snooze raised. N-one has seen Tabby since her thread was shamelessly trashed. It's that, as I said before that needs to be addressed not because some-one who has historically demanded factual evidence from members for years now has a hissy fit because the same has been asked of him... that's just pathetic.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:25 am

FTR, neither Snooze nor anyone else contacted me and asked me to

post here.

Betty, I stated that because that HAS been an accusation in the past.

And I'll re-state that I can comfortably put users on ignore in my head.

But the whole thing is just so damn tiring. I flatter myself that usually

my posts are interesting to people and good posts, yet I do precious

little of it any more, I guess you could say that I am one of the ones

who felt attacked and been (for the most part) driven off. It's just not

worth it to try and post something when dollars to doughnuts anything

you can think of to post will be torn apart by the usual suspects.

Yes, a lot of guests like the "drama" threads and that's fine as far as it

goes, but the variance between readers and posters is very large

(as I see it and no I'm not going to get into specifics or links or any of

it, not worth my time) and FG is losing a lot, I think.

I have to say I do sometimes read and applaud both Snooze and Oscar

for fighting the good fight. I don't know how they manage to keep doing

it, but I feel it's important that they do. But it's a sad, sad state of

affairs when I see something and think hmmm, that might be fun to

give a response to, but in the end I don't because at this point in my

life, it's just not worth it.

I'm with Snooze, I certainly don't mind differing opinions, I can even enjoy

them on occasion, and appreciate that someone has given me some

food for thought. But I guess it's a matter of degree, isn't it?

Any 'solution' to the problem that I would have in mind has been cast

aside through utter assurance to myself THAT IT WOULD NOT WORK.

Pity.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:13 pm

It does feel that everything here turns into a fight at the moment. I wonder if we are just mirroring the wider world: it sometimes seems a tense and scary time everywhere! Perhaps some of that tension and fear is creeping in here.

Post by **spot** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:24 pm

Clodhopper;1396765 wrote: It does feel that everything here turns into a fight at the moment. I wonder if we are just mirroring the wider world: it sometimes seems a tense and scary time everywhere! Perhaps some of that tension and fear is creeping in here.

I, for one, am tired of being held responsible for the malice involved.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:31 pm

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:56 pm

Well, I don't consider you malicious. Occasionally a touch incautious in your choice of language, perhaps, but not malicious. And I don't really feel in a position to criticise you for occasionally incautious language. :wah: