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Obama has a dream, a dream from his father, that the sins of Colonialism be set right and America be downsized. American has a dream from our founding fathers, that together we must perfect liberty and America must grow, so that Liberty grows.

Which dream will be carry into 2016?



2016 Teaser Trailer - YouTube

Your Founding Fathers may or may not have wanted the United States to occupy more of continental North America but I don't think they had any desire that "America must grow" in any economic sense, nor that "Liberty grows" as a consequence of economic growth. Do you have any reason to think they did seek economic growth and that they tied their concept of Liberty to economic success? If you do, what is it?

As for spreading across the North American continent you have a very simple way to do that, since you only possess about a third of it at the moment despite two centuries of genocidal slaughter. Offer Mexico federal admission to the USA as an additional ten or so States, with full citizenship and representation and rights of residence. Offer Canada federal admission to the USA as an additional seven States, with full citizenship and representation and rights of residence. Would you like to do that?

spot;1402542 wrote: Your Founding Fathers may or may not have wanted the United States to occupy more of continental North America but I don't think they had any desire that "America must grow" in any economic sense, nor that "Liberty grows" as a consequence of economic growth. Do you have any reason to think they did seek economic growth and that they tied their concept of Liberty to economic success? If you do, what is it?

As for spreading across the North American continent you have a very simple way to do that, since you only possess about a third of it at the moment despite two centuries of genocidal slaughter. Offer Mexico federal admission to the USA as an additional ten or so States, with full citizenship and representation and rights of residence. Offer Canada federal admission to the USA as an additional seven States, with full citizenship and representation and rights of residence. Would you like to do that?


I seriously doubt that Canada would be interested.

Wandrin;1402552 wrote: I seriously doubt that Canada would be interested.


I'm amazed how scared Americans become when you suggest doing it with Mexico though.

Canada either needs to do that or, along with Britain, join the Federal European Community. The US wouldn't look kindly on the latter, in my opinion. The days of an independent Canada are numbered either way.

We kicked butt in 1814. Just celebrated it with some commemorative stamps.

Most of Canada has no interest in joining with the US and are highly suspicious of all trade "deals" with them. We don't respect our own politicians any more than we do those currently running for US president, though. The Bloc is probably the only party we trust to not cater to the whims of what the US asks of us. Formerly living Jack Layton is going to be glorified in a film about his life. I doubt they'll represent the shady side of what the man "of the people" was actually like. He died before he won parliament and showed Canada that the NDP is no different than any other party who fought their way into the current electoral system.

Canadians are looking for politicians they can unite in hating. The best chance we have in making a difference is continuing to elect the current system representatives who reveal how corrupt the electoral system is to the point we reject all "party" systems and insist that only independents be elected. Or install a form of anarchy. Outside of that, don't look to Canada to teach any lessons. We're turning our soil into tar sands.

FACT CHECK: Anti-Obama film muddy on facts

"2016: Obama's America," a new conservative film exploring the roots of President Barack Obama's political views, took in $6.2 million to make it one of the highest-grossing movies of last weekend. The film, written and narrated by conservative scholar Dinesh D'Souza, argues that Obama was heavily influenced by what D'Souza calls the "anti-colonial" beliefs of his father, Barack Obama Sr., a Kenyan academic who was largely absent from the president's life."

FACT CHECK: Anti-Obama film muddy on facts - Yahoo! News

That claim is so ridiculous it makes me gasp for air.

Besides, we all know the reason America must be downsized is the sins of Capitalism. Colonialism doesn't come into it.

spot;1402643 wrote: Besides, we all know the reason America must be downsized is the sins of Capitalism. Colonialism doesn't come into it.
Led by Americans, possibly, but it is a cabal of international supermega capitalists reaping the rewards because after all they are the puppeteers. They have absolutely no genuine alligience to the U.S. or any other country per se. They are not patriots, they don't give a damn for people except how to manipulate them.

AnneBoleyn;1402741 wrote: Led by Americans, possibly, but it is a cabal of international supermega capitalists reaping the rewards because after all they are the puppeteers. They have absolutely no genuine alligience to the U.S. or any other country per se. They are not patriots, they don't give a damn for people except how to manipulate them.


Then if you'd just tax the buggers they might go elsewhere, don't you think. If your electorate can't be bothered to see behind the faux patriotism then your electorate is 100% responsible for what's happened.

PS

The old money is European, held by the same families for hundreds, maybe a thousand, years.

spot;1402744 wrote: Then if you'd just tax the buggers they might go elsewhere, don't you think. If your electorate can't be bothered to see behind the faux patriotism then your electorate is 100% responsible for what's happened.
Chin up boy, I couldn't agree with you more. Can't be bothered, can't be capable with the facts that make their lives tougher, can't show up to vote. Maybe we're lucky they don't.

AnneBoleyn;1402747 wrote: Chin up boy, I couldn't agree with you more. Can't be bothered, can't be capable with the facts that make their lives tougher, can't show up to vote. Maybe we're lucky they don't.


I'll stop being annoyed once your armed forces are all permanently corralled on US soil. I can't see it happening until then. You can have as many armed folk with as big a clutch of weapons as you want so long as they don't step beyond the border.

AnneBoleyn;1402745 wrote: PS

The old money is European, held by the same families for hundreds, maybe a thousand, years.Have you no idea how the British have totally destroyed the landed gentry over the last hundred years? We've had a revolution, they've gone from ownership to financial irrelevance. It's called socialism and it works.

spot;1402750 wrote: I'll stop being annoyed once your armed forces are all permanently corralled on US soil. I can't see it happening until then. You can have as many armed folk with as big a clutch of weapons as you want so long as they don't step beyond the border.
It's funny--Fat chance & Slim chance mean the same thing.

AnneBoleyn;1402756 wrote: It's funny--Fat chance & Slim chance mean the same thing.


Patience is a virtue I possess. Besides, having seen the turning point I already know the end result.

I always thought americans didn't see themselves as a colonial power only attacking other countries to set them free. What sins of colonialism has america committed. Does he think it was america that colonised kenya? So what is the film maker suggesting, vote for Obama or some bastardised version of manifest destiny?

gmc;1402834 wrote: I always thought americans didn't see themselves as a colonial power only attacking other countries to set them free. What sins of colonialism has america committed. Does he think it was america that colonised kenya? So what is the film maker suggesting, vote for Obama or some bastardised version of manifest destiny?
That's an example of how twisted we have become. As if colonialism was a good thing that only communists are against. Up is down/black is white. The republicans agree with Adolph Hitler:

"Tell a lie often enough, loud enough, and long enough and people will believe you."

& Goebbels: "If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. // If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. // If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. // If you repeat a lie long enough, it becomes truth. // If you repeat a lie many times, people are bound to start believing it."

Joseph Goebbels - Wikiquote

Or maybe it's just newspeak.

eta--although attributed to Goebbels, I think the quotes are from Mein Kampf.