ForumGarden

The rhetoric building up for war with Iran fails to disclose what a war with Iran will really mean to the public that will fund it. The bumpy trail through Afghanistan and Iraq pale in comparison to what will happen if war is waged in Iran, an intensely more powerful adversary.

There is a pdf report here that attempts to inform the public what support for the war will bring. Do not count on your mainstream sources to give an accurate picture. We are talking about a war that will last generations. A war that will strip all ability of Western governments to deal with the tragic economic problems at home. A war that will impoverish our children now and for the rest of their lives.

Canada has already withdrawn their ambassadors in preparation for war. If you think Vietnam went badly, that Iraq was dubious in any way, get informed on the hell our governments plan to lead us into in the near future.

I wouldn't look at a war with Iran as a single war. We are in a war of proxies now, look at Syria, Libya. Look at Afghanistan in the 1980s. A conflict with Iran will simply be another battle, although one of larger proportions.

The low level conflicts between NATO, America and others will continue. I now wonder what role Russia would play in this if she doesn't just stand aside as usual. I do suspect Russian politicians know who will be next when the Muslim world is under the wests thumb once again or adequately "peaceful".

Romney’s remarks validate Moscow’s stance on missile defense - Putin — RT

Maybe if Romney gets elected things might heat up in a completely new area. China as well probably will view a militarily aggressive america in a new light with a right wing nutcase in charge.

Remind me again why the politicians are banging the war drums for Iran? I can understand why the Iranian people would be pissed at the US, since subjecting them to decades of rule by dictators tends to do that, but what have we got against Iran?

Same old tired excuse: they have/will have weapons of mass destruction.

Like anyone really believes that. It's more a play on people who think they have to choose between Iran or Israel.

Oh the irony of the only nation to ever use nuclear weapons being afraid that other countries might gain equal capability...

It would be interesting to see what the defense budget would need to be if if was used for defense, rather than offensive meddling all over the world.

Found a great reason to blow up Iran:

Salman Rushdie is a wanted man...again: 'Satanic Verses' fatwa renewed

Salman Rushdie is a wanted man...again: 'Satanic Verses' fatwa renewed | New York Daily News

Iran increases the bounty on Salman Rushdie's head to $3m after anti-Islam video - even though he called it 'garbage'

Read more: Anti-Islam video leads Iran to increase bounty on Rushdie's head - even though he had nothing to do with it and called it 'garbage' | Mail Online

What can I say except I'm sick of their threats, sick of their BS, sick of them.

Actually, I would NOT blow up Iran, but I wouldn't wipe their tears either.

Keep in mind you are talking about an entire country full of people. They have poets, they have dissidents, they have children.

Wandrin;1404680 wrote: Remind me again why the politicians are banging the war drums for Iran? I can understand why the Iranian people would be pissed at the US, since subjecting them to decades of rule by dictators tends to do that, but what have we got against Iran?


The Shah's been dead for decades. Since then they are subjected to religious dictators, chosen by them. As the overwhelming majority of Iranians are fairly young, they don't even remember the Shah---only the hell their "revolution" created. Sick of this nonsense, sorry.

The only nonsense is that anyone would consider blowing up millions of civilians because a few prominent individuals say stupid things.

koan;1404757 wrote: Keep in mind you are talking about an entire country full of people. They have poets, they have dissidents, they have children.


So did Germany.

But seriously, folks--I found their election protests to be brave, courageous, all the good adjectives. I believe I made a disclaimer, saying *I*, that is me personally, would not bomb Iran. I believe in peaceful methods first & foremost. That does not require me, however, to give any sympathy toward their government. It is worse, worse, worse than ours & does not deserve comparison. IMO.

I see absolutely no reason, at this juncture, for anyone to go to war with Iran.

AnneBoleyn;1404759 wrote: The Shah's been dead for decades. Since then they are subjected to religious dictators, chosen by them. As the overwhelming majority of Iranians are fairly young, they don't even remember the Shah---only the hell their "revolution" created. Sick of this nonsense, sorry.


No, the main thing that the majority of Iranians remember is the hell that the First Gulf War created back when Saddam was "our guy in the region" - an entire generation of Iranians wiped out in revenge for rebelling against the puppet government we (re-)installed after they'd kicked the tyrant out the first time.

Bryn Mawr;1404831 wrote: No, the main thing that the majority of Iranians remember is the hell that the First Gulf War created back when Saddam was "our guy in the region" - an entire generation of Iranians wiped out in revenge for rebelling against the puppet government we (re-)installed after they'd kicked the tyrant out the first time.


Can you give a link for this, I can't remember, & I'm not finding a good link on my own. Some reading material please.

AnneBoleyn;1404849 wrote: Can you give a link for this, I can't remember, & I'm not finding a good link on my own. Some reading material please.


Look for it under the Iran - Iraq war which is how our glorious leaders like to portray it - just the locals having a dust up and nothing to do with us!

Ugh. I was afraid you'd say that. You mean stuff like this?:

"The Friends World Committee for Consultation in London estimates that a quarter-million children bear arms in the world. Conservative estimates are that 95,000 child soldiers were killed during the Iran-Iraq war. My organization, Defense for Children International, was instrumental in caring for a number of the Iranian child prisoners of war - some as young as 11 - who were used as front-line troops, and our experience convinces us that military service has a devastating effect on children, leaving many of the survivors emotionally crippled."

Child-Soldier Treaty Has Wide Support - New York Times

AnneBoleyn;1404855 wrote: Ugh. I was afraid you'd say that. You mean stuff like this?:

"The Friends World Committee for Consultation in London estimates that a quarter-million children bear arms in the world. Conservative estimates are that 95,000 child soldiers were killed during the Iran-Iraq war. My organization, Defense for Children International, was instrumental in caring for a number of the Iranian child prisoners of war - some as young as 11 - who were used as front-line troops, and our experience convinces us that military service has a devastating effect on children, leaving many of the survivors emotionally crippled."

Child-Soldier Treaty Has Wide Support - New York Times


Over a million were killed on each side and a high proportion of those were teenagers - towards the end Iran had no army left and had no choice but to use young recruits.

Bryn Mawr;1404831 wrote: No, the main thing that the majority of Iranians remember is the hell that the First Gulf War created back when Saddam was "our guy in the region" - an entire generation of Iranians wiped out in revenge for rebelling against the puppet government we (re-)installed after they'd kicked the tyrant out the first time.


People tend to remember when someone overthrows their government to install a dictator and then supports that dictator both militarily and monetarily. As I recall, the Soviet research showed that it takes more than 6 generations for the grudge to subside.

Wandrin;1404886 wrote: People tend to remember when someone overthrows their government to install a dictator and then supports that dictator both militarily and monetarily. As I recall, the Soviet research showed that it takes more than 6 generations for the grudge to subside.


The crimes of the fathers will fall upon the sons, yea unto the seventh generation thereof

I'm loving the little stoush between Japan and China at the moment . Now there's a couple of guys waving their dicks at each other....lol lol .



anne boleyn...... Iran–United States relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

fuzzywuzzy;1404910 wrote: I'm loving the little stoush between Japan and China at the moment . Now there's a couple of guys waving their dicks at each other....lol lol .



anne boleyn...... Iran–United States relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It is amazing how many countries have border disputes that have been going on for decades or even longer. I haven't heard much about the Japan/Russia dispute on those tiny islands recently, but it's still there.

AnneBoleyn;1404855 wrote: Ugh. I was afraid you'd say that. You mean stuff like this?:

"The Friends World Committee for Consultation in London estimates that a quarter-million children bear arms in the world. Conservative estimates are that 95,000 child soldiers were killed during the Iran-Iraq war. My organization, Defense for Children International, was instrumental in caring for a number of the Iranian child prisoners of war - some as young as 11 - who were used as front-line troops, and our experience convinces us that military service has a devastating effect on children, leaving many of the survivors emotionally crippled."

Child-Soldier Treaty Has Wide Support - New York Times
It constantly amazes me how people can pick and choose which bits of linear history are important to their narrative.

It's like only remembering Saddam Hussein dropped chemical weapons from helicopters but forgetting who gave him the helicopters and, indeed, the chemicals. (That'd be you fine folks)

Watching this sweet boy made me think of this thread and what his song says to those who forget that Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran aren't just outlines on maps full of hate filled terrorists. These are real people.

Same old tired excuse: they have/will have weapons of mass destruction.


You have to look at the "Great Game" too. Iran is THE major country in the region that stands in the way of the west getting to the mines and oil fields of central Asia, it is also THE most ideal way to get those goods to market. Look at the location, it borders the Caspian Sea in the north and the Persian Gulf in the south. Iran is not going to be obedient and cooperate with the west and their demands. Some things have become very apparent over the last few years also, Iran has been increasing its involvement in covert actions in the ME. The Syrian government is getting significant material support from them. Syrias Assad took the same position as Iran has essentially.

Your average Iranian has a list of grievances against the US, the Iran-Iraq war probably the biggest. I consider it justified, they lost a whole generation in a war the US essentially sponsored.

I do think that war is coming soon, the west cannot allow China to gain more influence in Central Asia. China and Russia are like 2 teenagers in a closet, infrastructure is being built that will only make China more powerful. With the Stans cooperating with China she will become unstoppable. Right now Americas power lies in the fact that we can strangle her if we choose. If that were to change and China to become independent of the sea lanes that are so vulnerable then she can take a whole different course.

We need to get to the Stans first, we will go to war with Iran in 2013 is my bet. Time is running out.