ForumGarden

Amazing........... Part 1

“I am a witness to history.



“I cannot tell you that Hitler took Austria by tanks and guns; it would distort history.



If you remember the plot of the Sound of Music, the Von Trapp family escaped over the Alps rather than submit to the Nazis. Kitty wasn’t so lucky. Her family chose to stay in her native Austria. She was 10 years old, but bright and aware. And she was watching.



“We elected him by a landslide – 98 percent of the vote, she recalls.



She wasn’t old enough to vote in 1938 – approaching her 11th birthday. But she remembers.



“Everyone thinks that Hitler just rolled in with his tanks and took Austria by force.



Not so.



Hitler is welcomed to Austria



“In 1938, Austria was in deep Depression. Nearly one-third of our workforce was unemployed. We had 25 percent inflation and 25 percent bank loan interest rates.



Farmers and business people were declaring bankruptcy daily. Young people were going from house to house begging for food. Not that they didn’t want to work; there simply weren’t any jobs.



“My mother was a Christian woman and believed in helping people in need. Every day we cooked a big kettle of soup and baked bread to feed those poor, hungry people – about 30 daily.’



“We looked to our neighbor on the north, Germany, where Hitler had been in power since 1933. she recalls. “We had been told that they didn’t have unemployment or crime, and they had a high standard of living.



“Nothing was ever said about persecution of any group – Jewish or otherwise. We were led to believe that everyone in Germany was happy. We wanted the same way of life in Austria. We were promised that a vote for Hitler would mean the end of unemployment and help for the family. Hitler also said that businesses would be assisted, and farmers would get their farms back.



“Ninety-eight percent of the population voted to annex Austria to Germany and have Hitler for our ruler.



“We were overjoyed, remembers Kitty, “and for three days we danced in the streets and had candlelight parades. The new government opened up big field kitchens and

everyone was fed.



“After the election, German officials were appointed, and, like a miracle, we suddenly had law and order. Three or four weeks later, everyone was employed. The government made sure that a lot of work was created through the Public Work Service.



“Hitler decided we should have equal rights for women. Before this, it was a custom that married Austrian women did not work outside the home. An able-bodied husband would be looked down on if he couldn’t support his family. Many women in the teaching profession were elated that they could retain the jobs they previously had been re- quired to give up for marriage.



“Then we lost religious education for kids



“Our education was nationalized. I attended a very good public school.. The population was predominantly Catholic, so we had religion in our schools. The day we elected Hitler (March 13, 1938), I walked into my schoolroom to find the crucifix replaced by Hitler’s picture hanging next to a Nazi flag. Our teacher, a very devout woman, stood up and told the class we wouldn’t pray or have religion anymore. Instead, we sang ‘Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Alles,’ and had physical education.



“Sunday became National Youth Day with compulsory attendance. Parents were not pleased about the sudden change in curriculum. They were told that if they did not send us, they would receive a stiff letter of warning the first time. The second time they would be fined the equivalent of $300, and the third time they would be subject to jail.



And then things got worse.



“The first two hours consisted of political indoctrination. The rest of the day we had sports. As time went along, we loved it. Oh, we had so much fun and got our sports equipment free.



“We would go home and gleefully tell our parents about the wonderful time we had.



“My mother was very unhappy, remembers Kitty. “When the next term started, she took me out of public school and put me in a convent. I told her she couldn’t do that and she told me that someday when I grew up, I would be grateful. There was a very good curriculum, but hardly any fun – no sports, and no political indoctrination.



“I hated it at first but felt I could tolerate it. Every once in a while, on holidays, I went home. I would go back to my old friends and ask what was going on and what they were doing.



“Their loose lifestyle was very alarming to me. They lived without religion. By that time, unwed mothers were glorified for having a baby for Hitler.



“It seemed strange to me that our society changed so suddenly. As time went along, I realized what a great deed my mother did so that I wasn’t exposed to that kind of humanistic philosophy.



“In 1939, the war started, and a food bank was established. All food was rationed and could only be purchased using food stamps. At the same time, a full-employment law was passed which meant if you didn’t work, you didn’t get a ration card, and, if you didn’t have a card, you starved to death.



“Women who stayed home to raise their families didn’t have any marketable skills and often had to take jobs more suited for men.



“Soon after this, the draft was implemented.



“It was compulsory for young people, male and female, to give one year to the labor corps, remembers Kitty. “During the day, the girls worked on the farms, and at night they returned to their barracks for military training just like the boys.



“They were trained to be anti-aircraft gunners and participated in the signal corps. After the labor corps, they were not discharged but were used in the front lines.



“When I go back to Austria to visit my family and friends, most of these women are emotional cripples because they just were not equipped to handle the horrors of combat.



“Three months before I turned 18, I was severely injured in an air raid attack. I nearly had a leg amputated, so I was spared having to go into the labor corps and into military service.



“When the mothers had to go out into the work force, the government immediately established child care centers.



“You could take your children ages four weeks old to school age and leave them there around-the-clock, seven days a week, under the total care of the government.



“The state raised a whole generation of children. There were no motherly women to take care of the children, just people highly trained in child psychology. By this time, no one talked about equal rights. We knew we had been had.



“Before Hitler, we had very good medical care. Many American doctors trained at the University of Vienna..

Part 2



“After Hitler, health care was socialized, free for everyone. Doctors were salaried by the government. The problem was, since it was free, the people were going to the doctors for everything.

“When the good doctor arrived at his office at 8 a.m., 40 people were already waiting and, at the same time, the hospitals were full.

“If you needed elective surgery, you had to wait a year or two for your turn. There was no money for research as it was poured into socialized medicine. Research at the medical schools literally stopped, so the best doctors left Austria and emigrated to other countries.

“As for healthcare, our tax rates went up to 80 percent of our income. Newlyweds immediately received a $1,000 loan from the government to establish a household. We had big programs for families.

“All day care and education were free. High schools were taken over by the government and college tuition was subsidized. Everyone was entitled to free handouts, such as food stamps, clothing, and housing.

“We had another agency designed to monitor business. My brother-in-law owned a restaurant that had square tables.

“Government officials told him he had to replace them with round tables because people might bump themselves on the corners. Then they said he had to have additional bathroom facilities. It was just a small dairy business with a snack bar. He couldn’t meet all the demands.

“Soon, he went out of business. If the government owned the large businesses and not many small ones existed, it could be in control.

“We had consumer protection, too

“We were told how to shop and what to buy. Free enterprise was essentially abolished. We had a planning agency specially designed for farmers. The agents would go to the farms, count the livestock, and then tell the farmers what to produce, and how to produce it.

“In 1944, I was a student teacher in a small village in the Alps. The villagers were surrounded by mountain passes which, in the winter, were closed off with snow, causing people to be isolated.

“So people intermarried and offspring were sometimes retarded. When I arrived, I was told there were 15 mentally retarded adults, but they were all useful and did good manual work.

“I knew one, named Vincent, very well. He was a janitor of the school. One day I looked out the window and saw Vincent and others getting into a van.

“I asked my superior where they were going. She said to an institution where the State Health Department would teach them a trade, and to read and write. The families were required to sign papers with a little clause that they could not visit for 6 months.

“They were told visits would interfere with the program and might cause homesickness.

“As time passed, letters started to dribble back saying these people died a natural, merciful death. The villagers were not fooled. We suspected what was happening. Those people left in excellent physical health and all died within 6 months. We called this euthanasia.

“Next came gun registration. People were getting injured by guns. Hitler said that the real way to catch criminals (we still had a few) was by matching serial numbers on guns. Most citizens were law-abiding and dutifully marched to the police station to register their firearms. Not long afterwards, the police said that it was best for everyone to turn in their guns. The authorities already knew who had them, so it was futile not to comply voluntarily.

“No more freedom of speech. Anyone who said something against the government was taken away. We knew many people who were arrested, not only Jews, but also priests and ministers who spoke up.

“Totalitarianism didn’t come quickly, it took 5 years from 1938 until 1943, to realize full dictatorship in Austria. Had it happened overnight, my countrymen would have fought to the last breath. Instead, we had creeping gradualism. Now, our only weapons were broom handles. The whole idea sounds almost unbelievable that the state, little by little eroded our freedom.

“This is my eyewitness account.

“It’s true. Those of us who sailed past the Statue of Liberty came to a country of unbelievable freedom and opportunity.

“America is truly is the greatest country in the world. “Don’t let freedom slip away.

“After America, there is no place to go.

Kitty Werthmann

She is an amazing woman with an incredible history. Here message is very clear and the warning signs should never be ignored.

Tyranny is to be feared.

You need to widen your research a bit. Hitler wasn't a socialist despite the name if his party - why do you think he hated communists so much? In fact socialists, liberals and communists were the top three on his hit list and were imprisoned first. The vote that made him chancellor only went through because he stopped the liberals and socialists from voting by the simple expedient of suspending habues corpus and putting them in jail. Many industrialists including prominent american ones financed him because they saw him as a way to destroy workers rights and give them more control, they were terrified of the left and feared a workers revolution. Henry ford was one of his biggest financial supporters. How he ended up in control despite having such a small percentage of the overall support in electoral is the real lesson from history. When it came to his anti-semitism hitler thought he was doing god's work, an awful lot of people around the world were anti-semitic, two thousand years of propaganda has an effect.

How Hitler Got Financed and How Propaganda Helped - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Best one on the subject is by an american journalist who was there at the time. William L. Shirer: The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich

The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich - book excerpts

On January 31, 1933, the day after Hitler was named Chancellor, Goebbels wrote in his diary: "In a conference with the Fuehrer we lay down the line for the fight against the Red terror. For the moment we shall abstain from direct countermeasures. The Bolshevik attempt at revolution must first burst into flame. At the proper moment we shall strike."

[QUOTE] Despite increasing provocation by the Nazi authorities there was no sign of a revolution, Communist or Socialist, bursting into flames as the electoral campaign got under way. By the beginning of February the Hitler government had banned all Communist meetings and shut down the Communist press. Social Democrat rallies were either forbidden or broken up by the S.A. rowdies, and the leading Socialist newspapers were continually suspended. Even the Catholic Center Party did not escape the Nazi terror. Stegerwald, the leader of the Catholic Trade Unions, was beaten by the Brownshirts when he attempted to address a meeting, and Bruening was obliged to seek police protection at another rally after S.A. troopers had wounded a number of his followers. Altogether fifty-one anti-Nazis were listed as murdered during the electoral campaign, and the Nazis claimed that eighteen of their own number had been done to death.




One of the reasons so many in europe are wary of what is happening in america with the rise in right wing political parties and the influence of right wing Christians is they see parallels with what happened in germany especially with the extreme nationalistic - my country right or wrong you're with us or against us mentality. You've become a corporatist state but I reckon americans are just too stroppy to let that continue much longer.

On the day following the fire, February 28, he prevailed on President Hindenburg to sign a decree "for the Protection of the People and the State" suspending the seven sections of the constitution which guaranteed individual and civil liberties. Described as a "defensive measure against Communist acts of violence endangering the state," the decree laid down that:

[QUOTE]Restrictions on personal liberty, on the right of free expression of opinion, including freedom of the press; on the rights of assembly and association; and violations of the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications; and warrants for house searchers, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond the legal limits otherwise prescribed.


Sound familiar? Substitute global war on terror for communist. Shouldn't believe all you read in right wing blogs.

I doubt anyone would get much valid 1960s political and economical history from my childhood memories.

It is a good message.

I am historian of the nazi and bolshevik revolutions / rise to power. My research is quite wide. Should I post several thousand pages here...in a forum? Should I present a thesis or thousands more pages of doctorate work, strategic studies articles, historical findings?

Hitler was an opportunist using socialism and government control as an engine. His party is SOCIALIST. He was viewed as the "right" when the final competing ideology was communist (left). Many on the left falsely label Hitler as "right wing" in an attempt to remove socialism from the vocabulary. This is widespread even at the academic level.

Back to Hitler....He was a crony-capitalist...much like you see today. He knew well enough to let the experts run the big companies as opposed to central control. But the government controlled everything through direct or proxy.

She makes her point well. I'm not sure why anyone would argue, refute, or counter what she has to say...it is her experience.

Thanks for the condescension. You really have no idea the person you are talking to and your mind is shrouded by your own per-conceived notions. I knew someone would jump on this thread as an insult to their own ideology or beliefs.

Good day to you.

Other than some rather obvious divergences from history, it is really very interesting reading.

Oy vey!

LarsMac;1415845 wrote: Other than some rather obvious divergences from history, it is really very interesting reading.


"Divergences". Yeah, let's not use first hand accounts in our view of history.

That would shake academia to the core, LOL!

halfway;1415848 wrote: "Divergences". Yeah, let's not use first hand accounts in our view of history.

That would shake academia to the core, LOL!And you know so much more than academia, don't you.

Ahso!;1415849 wrote: And you know so much more than academia, don't you.


Not "more than". But an observation of how group think tends to dominate the field.

Is there an ignore button on here?

There's a "ban" button somewhere in the back and I wouldn't be surprised to see it pushed if you don't straighten up soon.

Ahso!;1415857 wrote: There's a "ban" button somewhere in the back and I wouldn't be surprised to see it pushed if you don't straighten up soon.


I'm not conforming to your ideals and beliefs. Yup....ban that guy!

This forum does need an "ignore" button. Until then, consider my silence just that.

Ahso!;1415857 wrote: There's a "ban" button somewhere in the back and I wouldn't be surprised to see it pushed if you don't straighten up soon.


Really, I haven't noticed anything to justify a ban.

halfway;1415859 wrote: I'm not conforming to your ideals and beliefs. Yup....ban that guy!

This forum does need an "ignore" button. Until then, consider my silence just that.
I appreciate the account you have shared. Very interesting reading. Thanks.

SnoozeAgain;1415820 wrote: I doubt anyone would get much valid 1960s political and economical history from my childhood memories.


Would depend where you live perhaps. Where were you when all the civil rights marches etc were going on? Wherever it was bet it was more fun than a council housing estate in the arse end of scotland.

posted by halfway

It is a good message.

I am historian of the nazi and bolshevik revolutions / rise to power. My research is quite wide. Should I post several thousand pages here...in a forum? Should I present a thesis or thousands more pages of doctorate work, strategic studies articles, historical findings?

Hitler was an opportunist using socialism and government control as an engine. His party is SOCIALIST. He was viewed as the "right" when the final competing ideology was communist (left). Many on the left falsely label Hitler as "right wing" in an attempt to remove socialism from the vocabulary. This is widespread even at the academic level.

Back to Hitler....He was a crony-capitalist...much like you see today. He knew well enough to let the experts run the big companies as opposed to central control. But the government controlled everything through direct or proxy.

She makes her point well. I'm not sure why anyone would argue, refute, or counter what she has to say...it is her experience.

Thanks for the condescension. You really have no idea the person you are talking to and your mind is shrouded by your own per-conceived notions. I knew someone would jump on this thread as an insult to their own ideology or beliefs.

Good day to you.








It's a discussion forum where you will find a wide range of opinions people have passionate disagreements usually with a high degree of mutual respect. If you don't want to discuss perhaps another forum might suit you better if you think you post and we will all be impressed by your perspicacity and rendered speechless you will be disappointed. If you feel people are being condescending towards you that is your problem.

There is currently an attempt by what seem to be primarily american academics to re-write history. Hitler was really a socialist and he was also an atheist - which is one the pope seems to be really pushing. The reasons for that have a great deal to do with amrican politics and not with the actual historical facts.

His economics were fascist or corporatist if you prefer which is indeed what you have today particularly in america. Go far enough to the ight or left and the two begin to look very much alike. Think right wing, nationalistic, christian fundamentalist and you get a better understanding. They are right wing because they acted to preserve the power of the capitalist classess, who made the mnistake of thinking they could control him, against the anti-capitalistic socialist and communist parties. The terms right and left are vey much european way of looking at things, americans, with a supposely classless society have trouble, I think, in grasping just exactly what the comnnotations are. The left were also very much against the power of the church (opiate of the people and all that) that's why europeans view religious fundamentalists as right wing christians because given half a chance they will be oppressive and impose their will on the people. You don't really have any socialist in america only right wing and a lot more to the right.

It is her experience, and as such is entirely subjective - her experience is not sonehow more meaningful or relavant than anyone elses. There are many witnesses to history amongst my immediate family, for instance, I had several who fought against the nazis for seven long years, I slao knew several poles who found themselves unable to go home after the war despite it having started supposedly to preserve the state of poland - went to school with their children that's how I knew them. Evn had the privilege of meeting one of those who fought with the international brigade in Spain, should have herad him on the subject of the communists.

If you really are a histirian the you should appreciate things are never black and white but if you can't handle discussion then you should perhaps consider elsewhere or stay and here and talk to yourself it's uop top you. If you are going to lecture about european history to a bunch of europeans you might find us less impressed than you think we should be.

I knew someone would jump on this thread as an insult to their own ideology or beliefs.




That's not insulting it's ignorant and childish

Unfortunately, you are leaving the US Constitution out of your opinion. And that is the core...not corporate protectionism.

Conservatism is just that. Conserving the Constitution.

Conservatism ended slavery.

Conservatism ended women's suffrage.

Conservatism initiated the Civil Rights act.

Conservatism fought affirmative action ad the use of skin color as a benchmark.

Conservatism fought gender feminism while praising and promoting gender equality.

We have some re-written history to contend within the US. Disinformation is the cruelest, but many fail to become educated on the very topics they perceive themselves as experts at.

Thanks for the name-calling. I am a childish Constitutional scholar as well.

YZGI;1415868 wrote: Really, I haven't noticed anything to justify a ban.


Neither have I - a bit emotional maybe but adds to the discussion.

halfway;1415852 wrote: Not "more than". But an observation of how group think tends to dominate the field.

Is there an ignore button on here?


In the top right hand corner of the page, next to logout, find "settings"

On the left hand side, under my settings / my account is "Edit Ignore List"

Within that you can add any name(s) to the list.

Bryn Mawr;1415908 wrote: In the top right hand corner of the page, next to logout, find "settings"

On the left hand side, under my settings / my account is "Edit Ignore List"

Within that you can add any name(s) to the list.


Outstanding!

I found your articles very interesting, halfway. This is not the first time I have heard about this "creeping gradualism" that Hitler used. People who were suspicious were silenced and/or take away...disappeared.

This is a lesson we should learn and remember. Beware of smiling tyrants.

along-for-the-ride;1415929 wrote: I found your articles very interesting, halfway. This is not the first time I have heard about this "creeping gradualism" that Hitler used. People who were suspicious were silenced and/or take away...disappeared.

This is a lesson we should learn and remember. Beware of smiling tyrants.


Indeed. Fear of tyranny led to explicit protection of individual rights through a Constitution and a Republic.

Very wise men indeed.

This is a viral email camapign by the right once again trying to compare Obama to Hitler..

https://www.google.com/search?client=ub ... 8&oe=utf-8

halfway;1415839 wrote: It is a good message.

I am historian of the nazi and bolshevik revolutions / rise to power. My research is quite wide. Should I post several thousand pages here...in a forum? Should I present a thesis or thousands more pages of doctorate work, strategic studies articles, historical findings?

Hitler was an opportunist using socialism and government control as an engine. His party is SOCIALIST. He was viewed as the "right" when the final competing ideology was communist (left). Many on the left falsely label Hitler as "right wing" in an attempt to remove socialism from the vocabulary. This is widespread even at the academic level.

Back to Hitler....He was a crony-capitalist...much like you see today. He knew well enough to let the experts run the big companies as opposed to central control. But the government controlled everything through direct or proxy.

She makes her point well. I'm not sure why anyone would argue, refute, or counter what she has to say...it is her experience.

Thanks for the condescension. You really have no idea the person you are talking to and your mind is shrouded by your own per-conceived notions. I knew someone would jump on this thread as an insult to their own ideology or beliefs.

Good day to you.Are you taking credit for this research?

YZGI;1415868 wrote: Really, I haven't noticed anything to justify a ban.You're right. I was confused.

halfway;1415905 wrote: Unfortunately, you are leaving the US Constitution out of your opinion. And that is the core...not corporate protectionism.

Conservatism is just that. Conserving the Constitution.

Conservatism ended slavery.

Conservatism ended women's suffrage.

Conservatism initiated the Civil Rights act.

Conservatism fought affirmative action ad the use of skin color as a benchmark.

Conservatism fought gender feminism while praising and promoting gender equality.

We have some re-written history to contend within the US. Disinformation is the cruelest, but many fail to become educated on the very topics they perceive themselves as experts at.

Thanks for the name-calling. I am a childish Constitutional scholar as well.


Unfortunately, you are leaving the US Constitution out of your opinion. And that is the core...not corporate protectionism.


My opinion is my opinion you are not obliged to agree with it. I said corporatism not corporate protectionism. If you are indeed a a historian you will be aware of corporatism and it's part in fascist and later nazi ideology.

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.

Benito Mussolini


Conservatism preserving the liberal principles enshrined in your constitution? Interesting way of looking at things.



Conservatism ended women's suffrage.




When did they do that? Or do you mean the conservative intention is to take away women's rights.

This could be an interesting thread but not of all you are prepared to do is rant.