ForumGarden

I am all behind our Welfare system, the idea that lower paid pay less or no tax, that people on hard times, out of work can live modestly without worrying too much short term.

I was speaking to a cleaner today from one of the large super markets, she works 27 hours a week, but couldn't survive without the Child Tax Credits, Working Tax Credit and Child Benefit which totals nearly £100 per week.

Is the Government subsidising her employer ?

How have we come to the situation where such a high proportion of working people are dependent on Benefits and Credits ?

Gordon Brown. It'as thanks to him things are so complicated, he was in love with means testing and the like. Ironic considering traditional labour, when the weklfarte state was brought in, thought means testing for benefits degrading and were bitterly opposed to it. A lot of what has gione wrong since 1997can be laid at his door. He was a first class idiot.

Left to her employer she wouldn't even be receiving the minimum wage. just watch the tories go for that next.

gmc;1415883 wrote: Gordon Brown. It'as thanks to him things are so complicated, he was in love with means testing and the like. Ironic considering traditional labour, when the weklfarte state was brought in, thought means testing for benefits degrading and were bitterly opposed to it. A lot of what has gione wrong since 1997can be laid at his door. He was a first class idiot.

Left to her employer she wouldn't even be receiving the minimum wage. just watch the tories go for that next.


I'm sick of you slating his Lushiwonderfullness... You know he was the best Prime Minister this country ever had....You're just jealous of his sex appeal.

gmc;1415883 wrote: Gordon Brown. It'as thanks to him things are so complicated, he was in love with means testing and the like. Ironic considering traditional labour, when the weklfarte state was brought in, thought means testing for benefits degrading and were bitterly opposed to it. A lot of what has gione wrong since 1997can be laid at his door. He was a first class idiot.

Left to her employer she wouldn't even be receiving the minimum wage. just watch the tories go for that next.


I don't know who brought in the child and working tax credits or how they work, but the lady in question gets herself into work everyday at 5.30 am, works weekends, but the government makes up her wages.

She would not work if the wages were her only income, she couldn't afford to live.

I get the idea behind the credit system, it needs to evolve so that the employers get to pay a living wage.

Bruv;1415951 wrote: I don't know who brought in the child and working tax credits or how they work, but the lady in question gets herself into work everyday at 5.30 am, works weekends, but the government makes up her wages.

She would not work if the wages were her only income, she couldn't afford to live.

I get the idea behind the credit system, it needs to evolve so that the employers get to pay a living wage.


I don't think it's quite that simple. Good employers will want to pay a decent wage and in a capitalist economy having wages so people have a disposable income primes the economy but there is tremendous pressure to keep costs as low as possible and a lot of employers will pay as little as possible. Politicians like low paid part time work - they can blow their trumpet about how more people are in work. Without the welfare system she would still be working perhaps but barely getting by. Her rent is probably more than she earns.

Having thought about it, any rise in her wages will be added to the customer's food bill.

But then we would have less benefits to pay, so less tax from everybody's wages.

So basically the cost is the same to all of us, except now we pay tax to subsidise other people working, rather than paying a realistic price for our super market shopping.

The whole system is in need of rationalisation, but everybody in the chain will resist.