Seeing is believeing

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu May 26, 2005 6:45 am

flopstock wrote: I think you are in trouble when ted sees this, that is what I think

:yh_rotfl

Ted is not one "to be feared" no worries. He is the resident religious scholar.

Welcome. Interesting theory. I like that you maintain a connection to nature if not to a divine source.

minks · Post by **minks** » Thu May 26, 2005 8:10 am

Oh and welcome I saw this after i got into the first thread with you.

I like your theory on religion, and it is my belief as well, but I won't debate it. But have to agree, seeing is believing, and if god truly existed I would like to have a few words with him on how he has NOT been there for everyone. (tongue in cheek)

minks · Post by **minks** » Thu May 26, 2005 8:20 am

Hah I dont' debate religion sorry. I just wanted to jump in and mention I support your views on it.

john8pies · Post by **john8pies** » Thu May 26, 2005 2:35 pm

Mmmm, can I just ask if you have ever SEEN the wind? I don`t mean seen its effects, but actually seen the wind? So do you say that wind doesn`t exist? Ditto with things like silence, honesty, etc etc

Frederick · Post by **Frederick** » Thu May 26, 2005 2:54 pm

acydikeen wrote: Hey, I'm new here, and this is my first post so listen up

Basicaly, this is about the religious view I have that "seeing is believeing".

I have not seen God, nor have I seen any proof he exists.. So I don't particuarly believe in him.

But what I have see, is nature, in its glory and destructive vengance..

I believe that we all owe allegance to nature, as what else is it that nutures us, that helps us grow our food and animals, and indeed ourselves?

What do you think of this?

The book of Genesis, chapter ! clearly gives you the answer: In the beginning, GOD created the heaven and the earth, INCLUDING US! Therefore as Christians we accept that if God made all things, including everything that comes under the description of "nature", the air we breath to keep us alive etc. He must not only be Omni potent, but OMNIPRESENT as well. If God was a singular being, how could he possibly be with everybody all at the same time. Gog lives within ALL OF US ALL OF THE TIME whether we like it or not, as do we live in Him. He also gave us something so presious. He gave us a free will whether or not to serve him. You look, and see nature, but you are sightless. Peace be with you.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu May 26, 2005 6:55 pm

acydikeen wrote: Not really.

Humanity would have rebelled :p

He gave us personality, so he gave us the ability to rebel..

Briefly confused. Your OP says you don't believe in God and this statement seems to contradict that. Was it just a joke? Or are you rebelling? :sneaky:

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Fri May 27, 2005 2:30 am

here is how you spell "believing".

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Fri May 27, 2005 2:46 am

go for it.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:01 am

hahahaha...you and i could be friends after this! LOL

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:15 am

me too...sent you a pm. we'll be fine.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:24 am

acydikeen wrote: *Is suspicious, cos all the English are paranoid*

You gonna rat on me to the FBI or something ;)LOL LOL...my lover is an Englishman, i am moving there!

minks · Post by **minks** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:15 pm

And you end words spelled with ed with T instead of ed, Just what is up with that

Spelt = spelled

Spelt is a grain dam it a grain. The word is spelled.

Frederick · Post by **Frederick** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:20 pm

acydikeen wrote: What a derogatory bunch of nit-witidness..

Do I come before yo to mock your religious insights or beliefs?

No, I do not.. I respect all those that practice religion, whatever that religion may be..

Unless they act like you..

Just because it is written down in a book, that has been edited by man, you instantly assume it to be true?

Next thing you know, you'll be looking for a doorway to Narnia in your closet mate

I do not come her to seek a "Christian" slating my beliefs..

Show some respect!

I'm a pompous, derogative nit-wit, am I? Why, because my opinion differs from yours? You posted this under an adult Christian forum, seeking other people's opinions - IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLE'S ARGUMENTS, WHY POST IT IN THE FIRST PLACE??!! Your pompous, Christian brother.

Frederick · Post by **Frederick** » Fri May 27, 2005 2:03 pm

:-2 minks wrote: And you end words spelled with ed with T instead of ed, Just what is up with that

Spelt = spelled

Spelt is a grain dam it a grain. The word is spelled.

My learned friend,

From the Concise Oxford dictionary: SPELL v. (past and past past. SPELLED or CHIEFLY BRIT. SPELT). End quote.

SPELT - an old kind of wheat with bearded ears... TOP MARKS!! As Chairman Mao once said, "Every third man I meet is a teacher."

koan · Post by **koan** » Fri May 27, 2005 5:26 pm

Frederick wrote:

I'm a pompous, derogative nit-wit, am I? Why, because my opinion differs from yours? You posted this under an adult Christian forum, seeking other people's opinions - IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLE'S ARGUMENTS, WHY POST IT IN THE FIRST PLACE??!! Your pompous, Christian brother.

You are mistaken. This is not a Christian Forum. There is a section called Christianity in which you can preach yourself silly but the general religious forum is for discussion of any and all beliefs.

I am not offering an opinion on whether you were pompous or not. Just that this site, as a whole, should not be considered solely Christian. All beliefs are considered equal here.

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Tue May 31, 2005 6:52 am

Whoa... brutal thread. Love the flame action going on here. And am totally impressed with the lack of understanding be exhibited by the parties involved.

I understand about the seeing is believing.. but Acydikeen, haven't you ever read anything that made you feel something.. some book or literature that formed how you think.. or feel about something.. to be trashing Fred because he believes differently than you is not real cool...

Course his narrowmindness can be slightly frustrating too...

but I do have a question for you...

You say do don't believe in God..

What do you believe in..

some other higher authority perhaps...

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:32 am

Hmmmm... well first of all how do you know that anything holy that has been written by man is not factual.. that is a pretty far reaching statment.

Second of all... I didn't miss the point of the thread... you can believe in the power of nature all you want.. there are plenty of "religions" that worship the gods of nature.. the freedom to worship whatever dieties one wants to belongs to all of us...

Thirdly... don't make the assumption that just because I want to discuss this with you on a rational level that I am a Christian... you don't know what I believe in or follow.. and to make that assumption demonstrates a closed mind...

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:56 am

Well.. first of all I apologize for what was prolly a wrong use of double quotes.. or inverted commas.. that could be a grammatical difference between the US and the UK... I merely meant it as there are multiple nature based religions... ranging from Native Americans here in the US. to the Druids in your neck of the world.. least I think they practiced there.. that was all that was meant by that....

Yes.. the bible has been edited thru the years.. but that can be said for any work.. not just the bible.. and I will agree.. Fred did have difficulty defending his position... just quoting the bible is not a good anwser in this debate.. myself..

Personally I believe we all end uup somewhere after we leave this existance.. where I am not sure.. all I do know is it has to be better than here..

Additionally, I am not enuff of a biblical scholar to really debate this in the manner I should...

Ted... ohhhh Ted... where are you....

He is the biblical scholar here and you will find his posts intellingent and logical...

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Tue May 31, 2005 9:29 am

and that is pretty much all you can ask for... fun discussion though... besides.. some peeps consider themselves experts.. if you can catch my drift..

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:16 pm

To label the Bible as just fiction is to misunderstand its nature and its intent as well as the style of writing that the ancients used in putting the sacred scriptures together.

If anyone is interested in furthering that discussion I am willing.

One should remember however, that truths can be taught through fiction as well as historical accounts. I would draw to your attention that Dickens "Oliver Twist" is fiction but loaded with truths nonetheless.

Shalom

Ted :-6

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:21 pm

What would convince the auld buzzard into Seeing and Believing. That's the question. Over to you.:-2

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:50 pm

Capt :-6

That is a journey that each of us must make. Perhaps a lot of prayer and meditation.

Actually you might find some of the writings of Mattew Fox interesting and enlightening.

http://www.matthewfox.org/sys-tmpl/htmlpage10/

Shalom

Ted :-6

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:55 pm

I've given up on that too Ted. Its all in the mind, this Jesus,God thing.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:07 pm

Capt. :-6

Does that mean that you are giving up on the message of Yeshua of Nazareth: his message of love, compassion and justice (as distributive justice)?

As I have said you might find the writings of Matthew Fox a breath of fresh air. But we must each walk our own path. I just cannot get out of my head that messges and wisdom that has been around for thousands of years is completely useless. That a simple eastern Mediterranean peasant could make such a difference in the course of world history. Most, if not all peasants have long disappeared into the dust of history.

Neither, of course, can I get out of my very being the experiences that I have had.

Shalom

Ted :-6