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Constitutional bombshell

The constitutional bombshell that would reshape British politics - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

Imagine what rabid tories with nothing to stop them will do to the country. Maybe now you can understand why labour are terrified of a yes vote for independence.

Another West Lothian question in the offing - Editorials - Voices - The Independent

The implications of English-only fourth readings are not restricted to day-to-day politics, however. By creating two different classes of MP for the first time – those who can engage in all the business of the House and those who cannot – the plan also raises profound constitutional issues and, in its most extreme interpretation, even undermines Westminster’s status as the United Kingdom Parliament.


Wonder of daily mail readers will be able to grasp this:sneaky:

gmc;1431349 wrote:



Wonder of daily mail readers will be able to grasp this:sneaky:


Oh we grasp It.

We just have no Interest unless It Involves Muslims or benefit scroungers.

oscar;1431351 wrote: Oh we grasp It.

We just have no Interest unless It Involves Muslims or benefit scroungers.


The tragedy is I don't you are kidding. Our electoral system distorts things so much most people don't even bother voting nowadays.

gmc;1431359 wrote: The tragedy is I don't you are kidding. Our electoral system distorts things so much most people don't even bother voting nowadays.


The real Issue Is the apathy of the electorate. You can change the voting system with proportional representation, Gerrymandering whatever but If the electorate can not e bothered to go to the Polls, It will never make any difference,

gmc;1431349 wrote: Constitutional bombshell

The constitutional bombshell that would reshape British politics - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

Imagine what rabid tories with nothing to stop them will do to the country. Maybe now you can understand why labour are terrified of a yes vote for independence.

Another West Lothian question in the offing - Editorials - Voices - The Independent



Wonder of daily mail readers will be able to grasp this:sneaky:


I think they're wrong, I think we already have two classes of MP - those who can vote an a devolved assembly and those that cannot.

By introducing the proposed changes they would be bringing Parliament back to having a single class of MP - all MPs would be able to vote on general matters covering all of the regions and all MPs would be able to vote on matters concerning only their own region.

That the result of the change would be one sided and favour the party currently in power is another question completely but they cannot say that this would create a two class Parliament.

oscar;1431368 wrote: The real Issue Is the apathy of the electorate. You can change the voting system with proportional representation, Gerrymandering whatever but If the electorate can not e bothered to go to the Polls, It will never make any difference,


And what, in your opinion, is the cause of the apathy?

Bryn Mawr;1431369 wrote: I think they're wrong, I think we already have two classes of MP - those who can vote an a devolved assembly and those that cannot.

By introducing the proposed changes they would be bringing Parliament back to having a single class of MP - all MPs would be able to vote on general matters covering all of the regions and all MPs would be able to vote on matters concerning only their own region.

That the result of the change would be one sided and favour the party currently in power is another question completely but they cannot say that this would create a two class Parliament.


Scots law and education have been separate since the union so most of the recent reforms would not have affected us anyway. The NHS is now devolved in effect we already have an english parliament. It was rather irritating to have the supreme court in england overturning decisions made in the scottish high court. They were not supposed to have that authority. The NHS is now devolved it was always slightly farcical that scots labour MP's would vote in favour of policies that they would not dare support if it also affected scotland - I'm thinking of some of tony blair's reforms to the NHS that needed the scots to get them through.

Without scots labour mp's labour does not have enough English MP's to have any say in what happens in england. The present coalition would not be necessary for the tories to rule in england and what you have is a de facto takeover by the tory party excluding the other two parties from having any say. Unless they also introduce PR you are looking at a future right wing england run by a very small portion of the population. If in reality most english want the tories to rule that's fine because the chances of getting rid of them will be rather severely diminished.

And what, in your opinion, is the cause of the apathy?




I would not presume to speak for oscar but it seems to me no matter how people vote it makes no difference. Half the country hate thatcherism yet new labour now vaunt the fact they accept her reforms. be interesting to see how a platform or renationalisation the utilities - without giving any compensation to shareholders and throwing companies that don't pay taxes out of the UK as well as jailing a few bankers would go down I would be willing to bet people would be dancing in the streets in celebration and vote then=m in on a landslide. Most people are bright enough to realise the eu and immigration are not the real problem with this country.

gmc;1431410 wrote:

I would not presume to speak for oscar but it seems to me no matter how people vote it makes no difference. Half the country hate thatcherism yet new labour now vaunt the fact they accept her reforms. be interesting to see how a platform or renationalisation the utilities - without giving any compensation to shareholders and throwing companies that don't pay taxes out of the UK as well as jailing a few bankers would go down I would be willing to bet people would be dancing in the streets in celebration and vote then=m in on a landslide. Most people are bright enough to realise the eu and immigration are not the real problem with this country.


The point I was trying to make is that the apathy is an effect, not the cause and that you have to go after the root causes of the problems rather than point at the side effects.

Bryn Mawr;1431370 wrote: And what, in your opinion, is the cause of the apathy?


I think the Importance of why we vote has been lost somewhere.

I think the voting should be covered In schools and higher education so when young people arrive at their first General, they are In possession of what Its about and why their vote Is Important.

I believe the mainstream parties do not appeal to the younger electorate enough and rely on stalwart safe votes. Younger people may feel confused.

Expenses scandals and sleeze lead the electorate to assume they are all as bad as each other and just don't bother.

Whatever the Party, there Is an air of mistrust born out of renegading on pre-election promises that Is historic.

Safe seats add to the problem. The electorate tend to think ' whats the point because so and so will get back In again'...

Disengagement with politicians and governments and lazy candidates who can't be buggered to get out on the streets and engage new voters.

Under tony blair and gordon brown labour have lost 60% of ther membership the tories have not faired much better only around 1% of the electorate are members of either of the main parties overall less than 3% actually bother joining any party. I think people are interested in politics only when something gets them annoyed enough at the politicians. What it does mean is that we effectively have a kind of elected dictatorship that the majority of those who vote actively vote against. No wonder they don't want electoral reform and this move will kill off the labour party -until people get angry enough and start taking to the streets. We should ban all funding of political parties and allow subscription only from their membership. That would be interesting to see.

www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN05125.pdf

gmc;1431500 wrote: Under tony blair and gordon brown labour have lost 60% of ther membership the tories have not faired much better only around 1% of the electorate are members of either of the main parties overall less than 3% actually bother joining any party. I think people are interested in politics only when something gets them annoyed enough at the politicians. What it does mean is that we effectively have a kind of elected dictatorship that the majority of those who vote actively vote against. No wonder they don't want electoral reform and this move will kill off the labour party -until people get angry enough and start taking to the streets. We should ban all funding of political parties and allow subscription only from their membership. That would be interesting to see.

www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN05125.pdf


Your post doesn't add up.

Recent gov polls show that If we had an election today, there will be a Labour landslide..... as I predicted 2 years ago :p

Ed Miliband will win landslide at next election according to Tory poll | Mail Online

oscar;1431516 wrote: Your post doesn't add up.

Recent gov polls show that If we had an election today, there will be a Labour landslide..... as I predicted 2 years ago :p

Ed Miliband will win landslide at next election according to Tory poll | Mail Online


That is a result of government incompitence rather than the status quo. Take the long term trend and Labour is dead in England.

oscar;1431516 wrote: Your post doesn't add up.

Recent gov polls show that If we had an election today, there will be a Labour landslide..... as I predicted 2 years ago :p

Ed Miliband will win landslide at next election according to Tory poll | Mail Online


You rather miss the point. The proposal is that a vote by parliament on issues that solely affect england can be overridden by english MP's. labour does not have a majority of seats in england, the tories do not have a majority in the overall vote in england but the first past the post system given them most of the seats. Take the 65 Scottish labour MPs out of it plus the 40 welsh and 16 irish and the picture looks rather different. I'll leave you to do the arithmetic. There were already proposals to cut the number of Westminster MP's by 50 in the pipeline. This alone, even without a scottish yes vote for independence, would mean the de facto end of the parliamentary union. It's ironic, while campaigning to keep the union intact they are effectively proposing to end it anyway.

House reforms: Division of powers

English-only matters:

* Agriculture, forestry and fisheries

* Education and training

* Environment

* Health and social services

* Housing

* Law and order (including the licensing of air weapons)

* Local government

* Sport and the arts

* Tourism and economic development

* Transport (including drink-driving and speed limits).

Waterless, odorless and sanitary;

Can be used by men, women and children;

Eliminates messes on the toilet seat;

Saves on well water and well pump use and cuts down on sewage pumping costs;

Reduces your water metre bill by 35%;

Recommended for potty training young boys;

There is no need for cleaning pucks or products;

Makes a great gift;

Assist people with special needs or disabilities;

Ease of use;

Saves hydro;

AND MOST OF ALL - it is helping our environment!

Moeroy is here to spam us, not to join us. Moeroy is bad.

moeroy;1438987 wrote: Waterless, odorless and sanitary;

Can be used by men, women and children;

Eliminates messes on the toilet seat;

Saves on well water and well pump use and cuts down on sewage pumping costs;

Reduces your water metre bill by 35%;

Recommended for potty training young boys;

There is no need for cleaning pucks or products;

Makes a great gift;

Assist people with special needs or disabilities;

Ease of use;

Saves hydro;

AND MOST OF ALL - it is helping our environment!




What a crappy post.

YZGI;1439032 wrote: What a crappy post.


At first read, I thought It was a description of gmc...:sneaky::yh_rotfl

oscar;1439035 wrote: At first read, I thought It was a description of gmc...:sneaky::yh_rotfl


You need to work on your insults a bit more.



George Galloway reads joke-text on banker, Daily Mail reader and benefits claimant - YouTube

gmc;1439042 wrote: You need to work on your insults a bit more.



George Galloway reads joke-text on banker, Daily Mail reader and benefits claimant - YouTube


You've surfaced then ? I was about to send out the emergency services In case you'd fallen off your mountain bike up some crevice.

Alas I have not been biking much recently. My bike needs new chain, chain set, wheels disc brakes the rear shpck loses pressure and badly needs a service but is of a vintage where parts may not be available so do i go for a rebuild or buy a new bike? Being skint replacement or rebuild is far down my list of priorities at present. Besides your daily mail inspired inanities have been less of late so no reason to wind you up. Found myself in a bike shop recently saying to a smart alec salesman "I have been mountain biking longer than you have been alive" Sadly it was true I hate been patronised by some spotty oick that thinks I've never been on a bike before and know nothing about it but such pomposity coming out unexpectedly is is depressing. I think there should be a t-shirt with the slogan I was doing this before it was trendy. Would cover all the activities don't you think?

gmc;1439104 wrote: Alas I have not been biking much recently. My bike needs new chain, chain set, wheels disc brakes the rear shpck loses pressure and badly needs a service but is of a vintage where parts may not be available so do i go for a rebuild or buy a new bike? Being skint replacement or rebuild is far down my list of priorities at present. Besides your daily mail inspired inanities have been less of late so no reason to wind you up. Found myself in a bike shop recently saying to a smart alec salesman "I have been mountain biking longer than you have been alive" Sadly it was true I hate been patronised by some spotty oick that thinks I've never been on a bike before and know nothing about it but such pomposity coming out unexpectedly is is depressing. I think there should be a t-shirt with the slogan I was doing this before it was trendy. Would cover all the activities don't you think?


When I get some oik trying to be clever I use the Immortal words of Bet Lynch:

" Shut It.. I got tights older than you".

As for being served by spotty oiks, they need to be banned.

I absolutely refuse to use my local Tesco Express on account of Natalie who works there full time on the checkout. I take great exception at some oily, zit laden face and greasy haired Individual who can not address her body odour handling my button mushrooms.