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jones jones;1451164 wrote: You don't understand my reply or you don't understand earthling? Or are you taking the mickey?


I was calling YOU earthling!!!!! So it means I don't understand your reply!

AnneBoleyn;1451165 wrote: I was calling YOU earthling!!!!! So it means I don't understand your reply!


Then I'll explain ... Sometimes some earthlings go off topic ... in other words they take the thread off on another totally unrelated path. Then others join in and in no time what was a thread about "there is no god" becomes a thread about whether pilchards are more tasty than sardines.

Are they?

AnneBoleyn;1451168 wrote: Are they?


You just being naughty!

Wow.

Cry babies in action.

Tsk tsk.

halfway;1451191 wrote: Wow.

Cry babies in action.

Tsk tsk.


So refreshing when you aren't here. So UNrefreshing to see you back.

So much sensitivity and emotion.

It seems this overwhelming love has caused the deletion of my opinion as it may have been "not quite" emotional enough?

"Faith" towards the earthly or to the spritiual? That seems to be of some importance these days. :-3

AnneBoleyn;1451157 wrote: Of course! But you can't close off comments or opinions of others while the Thread is Open & Public. Or can you? Need an administrative referee here, please!

PS--you can, of course, ignore the comments of others, but that would be rude, & you are definitely not that.


Well they could have a private conversation, but they would have to set up a private thread to do so. Or use PM.

Anything posted publicly is, of course, public property.

Lars, how does one set up a private thread? Just by declaring it so? What is the procedure? Would this thread be at least seen by others? Please explain.

AnneBoleyn;1451233 wrote: Lars, how does one set up a private thread? Just by declaring it so? What is the procedure? Would this thread be at least seen by others? Please explain.


Ms Annie of Brooklyn New York which is my all time favourite city on this planet.

You know I love you to bits so let me put your mind to rest.

Citizen Sheep whom I refer to as "Shep" becos I mean, how can you address an earthling as Sheep? Well the aforementioned Shep aka Sheep, suggested to me that we should continue our discussion via private message so as to avoid a clash of egos.

I agreed. However despite a seemingly endless stream of private messages, we were unable to agree to the terms of engagement. So the Chosen One aka Jj, whom as you should be aware is an impatient man decided to opt out.

Therefore the debate? came to nought.

Ergo it is dead in the water.

May we draw a line under this?

Jj I can't believe you are still doing this! I know you got mad at me the last time I said anything in public but really. If you are so sure there's no God why do you keep bothering to put up stuff like this and hurt the feelings of people that you're claim to care about. Why don't you just leave the subject alone?

jones jones;1451242 wrote: Ms Annie of Brooklyn New York which is my all time favourite city on this planet.

You know I love you to bits so let me put your mind to rest.

Citizen Sheep whom I refer to as "Shep" becos I mean, how can you address an earthling as Sheep? Well the aforementioned Shep aka Sheep, suggested to me that we should continue our discussion via private message so as to avoid a clash of egos.

I agreed. However despite a seemingly endless stream of private messages, we were unable to agree to the terms of engagement. So the Chosen One aka Jj, whom as you should be aware is an impatient man decided to opt out.

Therefore the debate? came to nought.

Ergo it is dead in the water.

May we draw a line under this?


Hey! Sheep are Earthlings, too, ya know.

The intolerance and "bullying" that goes on here.

tsk tsk.

halfway;1451258 wrote: The intolerance and "bullying" that goes on here.

tsk tsk.


You have obviously lived a very sheltered life.

If two people converse in private then bring it out for public discussion, I don't see the problem.

LarsMac;1451254 wrote: Hey! Sheep are Earthlings, too, ya know.


LarsMac you did not answer my last questions to you. Please respond.

Hope6;1451251 wrote: Jj I can't believe you are still doing this! I know you got mad at me the last time I said anything in public but really. If you are so sure there's no God why do you keep bothering to put up stuff like this and hurt the feelings of people that you're claim to care about. Why don't you just leave the subject alone?


Hope, why should it hurt your feelings that JJ expresses his atheism? You are strong in your beliefs, so please explain why it matters. I ask this with the greatest respect for your opinion.

jones jones;1451242 wrote: Ms Annie of Brooklyn New York which is my all time favourite city on this planet.

You know I love you to bits so let me put your mind to rest.

Citizen Sheep whom I refer to as "Shep" becos I mean, how can you address an earthling as Sheep? Well the aforementioned Shep aka Sheep, suggested to me that we should continue our discussion via private message so as to avoid a clash of egos.

I agreed. However despite a seemingly endless stream of private messages, we were unable to agree to the terms of engagement. So the Chosen One aka Jj, whom as you should be aware is an impatient man decided to opt out.

Therefore the debate? came to nought.

Ergo it is dead in the water.

May we draw a line under this?


I knew all along you would come to this conclusion.

Anne....it hurts my feelings because my faith teaches that those who don't believe, their soul is destined for a very bad place when they die. It hurts me because I have a great affection for Jj as you can probably tell. So it hurts my feelings to think of anything like that happening to him and I don't like to be reminded of it.

Hope6;1451272 wrote: Anne....it hurts my feelings because my faith teaches that those who don't believe, their soul is destined for a very bad place when they die. It hurts me because I have a great affection for Jj as you can probably tell. So it hurts my feelings to think of anything like that happening to him and I don't like to be reminded of it.


That's a lovely sentiment Hope, but we are all responsible for ourselves. JJ has chosen what he feels is right for him, & you are not accountable for his path. He does not see dire consequences as you do; it is not under your control no matter how much you care for him.

I know what your saying Anne but I am a very sensitive person and even though I respect his opinions, it still hurts me.

So much hate on here.

Wow Anne. It's your way or no way. Just as you have been trained.

Sad.

Diversity has passed you by.

halfway, I don't think we've met before so let me say nice to meet you.



I don't feel hated. I think Anne has been very polite in her replies. I like Anne, even though we my differ in our opinions of some things, I think she's a sweetheart.

Hope6;1451300 wrote: halfway, I don't think we've met before so let me say nice to meet you.



I don't feel hated. I think Anne has been very polite in her replies. I like Anne, even though we my differ in our opinions of some things, I think she's a sweetheart.


I'm glad you do not feel hated. That would be terrible. And nice to meet you as well!

Thank you, you must have joined up at a time when I wasn't around much. I hope you are enjoying being here in the garden?

No less a heavyweight than il papa … aka Pope Francis, who is able to tell when one of his flock is seated next to God so that he, il papa, can declare them a saint, met in the Vatican with Israeli President Shimon Peres & Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas for a prayer session. It’s not often that Judaism, Islam & Christianity come together to pray and ask Yahweh/ Allah/God to bring peace to a region.

I guess expectations must have been high because Francis’ secretary of state, Cardinal Pietro Parolin, at the end of il papa’s recent Middle East trip said, and I quote: “Prayer has a political strength that we maybe don’t even realise and should be exploited to the full. Prayer has the ability to transform hearts and thus to transform history,”



So what does Yahweh/Allah/God do? Nothing/zilch/nada cos the same day armed gunmen attack Karachi airport and 23 earthlings die.

Guess God was busy and didn’t hear Francis.

Guess God was busy and didn�t hear Francis.

Maybe he just wasn't interested.

jones jones;1456858 wrote: No less a heavyweight than il papa � aka Pope Francis, who is able to tell when one of his flock is seated next to God so that he, il papa, can declare them a saint,


Was that ignorance, or just being a smart alec?

jones jones;1456858 wrote: met in the Vatican with Israeli President Shimon Peres & Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas for a prayer session. It�s not often that Judaism, Islam & Christianity come together to pray and ask Yahweh/ Allah/God to bring peace to a region.

I guess expectations must have been high because Francis� secretary of state, Cardinal Pietro Parolin, at the end of il papa�s recent Middle East trip said, and I quote: �Prayer has a political strength that we maybe don�t even realise and should be exploited to the full. Prayer has the ability to transform hearts and thus to transform history,�




I agree with Papa

jones jones;1456858 wrote: Guess God was busy and didn�t hear Francis.


You see that attack a transformation of history?

jones jones;1456858 wrote: No less a heavyweight than il papa � aka Pope Francis, who is able to tell when one of his flock is seated next to God so that he, il papa, can declare them a saint, met in the Vatican with Israeli President Shimon Peres & Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas for a prayer session. It�s not often that Judaism, Islam & Christianity come together to pray and ask Yahweh/ Allah/God to bring peace to a region.

I guess expectations must have been high because Francis� secretary of state, Cardinal Pietro Parolin, at the end of il papa�s recent Middle East trip said, and I quote: �Prayer has a political strength that we maybe don�t even realise and should be exploited to the full. Prayer has the ability to transform hearts and thus to transform history,�



So what does Yahweh/Allah/God do? Nothing/zilch/nada cos the same day armed gunmen attack Karachi airport and 23 earthlings die.

Guess God was busy and didn�t hear Francis.


It has never really been about what God will do. I has always been what humans are going to do.

God said, love one another. We humans can't even get that right. and then we blame God.

LarsMac;1456908 wrote: It has never really been about what God will do. I has always been what humans are going to do.

God said, love one another. We humans can't even get that right. and then we blame God.


Totally agree. God didn't kill those in the Holocaust. People did.

Your first remark about my post is disingenuous in the extreme.

The next two make little sense to me so I suggest you re-read my post.

Your first remark about my post is disingenuous in the extreme.

The next two make little sense to me so I suggest you re-read my post.

LarsMac;1456908 wrote: It has never really been about what God will do. I has always been what humans are going to do.

God said, love one another. We humans can't even get that right. and then we blame God.


No sense in praying then is there?

AnneBoleyn;1456916 wrote: Totally agree. God didn't kill those in the Holocaust. People did.


See my reply to Lars Annie.

jones jones;1457094 wrote: See my reply to Lars Annie.


I agree with that too! Very little sense in much of what we do, IMO.

jones jones;1457093 wrote: No sense in praying then is there?


I pray daily.

I pray that one day, humans will 'get it' and actual listen to the words the religious leaders have been preaching all this time.

I pray that they will learn that caring for each other and loving each other is far more useful than distrust and hatred.

I pray that one day no child will go to sleep at night hungry and scared for his or her life.

I pray that we can get through the day without some idiot pushing the button. (At least THAT one has been answered. So far)

I guess we will see if that ever makes sense.

LarsMac;1457117 wrote: I pray daily.

I pray that one day, humans will 'get it' and actual listen to the words the religious leaders have been preaching all this time.

I pray that they will learn that caring for each other and loving each other is far more useful than distrust and hatred.

I pray that one day no child will go to sleep at night hungry and scared for his or her life.

I pray that we can get through the day without some idiot pushing the button. (At least THAT one has been answered. So far)

I guess we will see if that ever makes sense.




However prayers are never answered despite this:

In John chapter 14 Jesus describes just how easy prayer can be: 12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. 13 Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; 14 if you ask anything in my name, I will do it

He says: "Whatever you ask in my name etc" and "if you ask anything in my name, I will do it."

So was Jesus lying?

Instead of being literal in the interpretation of the Bible (which wasn't even written down for three centuries) why not take it as a book full of Good Advice for living?

As to me...I believe in a Big God. A God of the Universe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad

Why are we here ?

Me: To become intelligent. The single greatest survival trait is intelligence, It is better and more powerful than any other trait such as fangs or speed. Therefore, where ever life begins, it will evolve towards intelligence eventually. Therefore the reason for the Universe is to create intelligence. The real question is why does the Creator want life to be intelligent?

Quote:

On Earth that is. Is there a reason ?

Yes. Earth lies in the "life belt". In our orbit, we are not too close to the Sun or too far away. It's not too hot or cold to sustain carrbon-based life here. The early self-replicating molecules found that they could sustain reproduction here. The more complex the form, the better it's chance for survival. Therefore life evolved into humans.

Quote:

Is it a fluke ?

No...The speed of light is 6.0 X 10^6 mph., the acceleration of gravity is 32 ft.^2, and the distance around a circle (or your atom or a planet, or a galaxy) divided by the distance across it is 3.1415926... These constants are set and have been set since creation. Change just one number by one digit and the entire Universe would cease to exist. So, no. It's no fluke, there is a plan to the Universe.

Quote:

If God exists, why are we on this tiny blue planet

suspended in a vast and seemingly endless void of harsh

uninhabitable cosmos ?

Now you are asking the right question. Why does life exist at all? Since it's obvious that life exists to create intelligence, then the real question is "Why does life need to be intelligent?" No one has this answer, although I have a suspicion. I suggest that since "God lives in the birds and the bees, the rocks and the trees," He experiences his creation through us. Most religious people would agree that an omniscient God would see, hear and experience everything an intelligent human does. Perhaps we are how God lives...He lives through us.

Quote:

Do we have a unified purpose ?

Once, long, long ago, you and I and everyone else were in the center of a star. That is the only place where heavy atoms like carbon and iron can be made. That star blew up and the dust cloud it made eventually condensed into this solar system. From those very atoms, your mother's body broke down the food molecules that she ate and made your body. That seems pretty unifying to me, but it's still just a unified history, not a purpose.

Quote:

An individual purpose ?

Absolutely. Like the threads in a great tapestry, you and I cannot know our actual purpose or the repercussions of everything we do each day. But the beauty of the mathematics of creation suggests that there is a very clear purpose.

Let me put it this way. When you throw a stone into the water, you make ripples. When hundreds of stones are thrown, the ripples cross and recross making fantastic patterns. These patterns are just like our lives. You help a little old lady across the street today. Because of that, she doesn't get hit by a car. She now has a child. That child grows up to invent a cure for cancer. Without your individual purpose of helping her across the street, her son could never realize his individual purpose of inventing a cancer cure.

Quote:

Is this a test ?

Most likely, yes. If you abscribe to the theory that there is a purpose to the universe, then there is a purpose to every part of the universe, including you. If you do not fulfill your purpose, you fail the test.

Quote:

How are we doing ?

You'll know every detail. Excatly which lives you affected, how much, and when. Every nuance of the millions of decisions that you made throughout your lifespan will be made clear to you....

when you die.

Saint_: "why not take it as a book full of Good Advice for living?"

I've learned that Good Advice can come from anywhere, from anyone, even those I feel disinclined to believe. I've learned much from many various sources. For example, I really get a lot from Joel Osteen & especially Joyce Meyer. They are sensible people on many levels, & have been good companions on my 'quest'.

JJ,

We are here to do our own work. God will not do it for us.

We can rage at him, we can plead with him, we can discard him, whatever. The only thing we can control is our own being. Asking God to solve our problems is a waste of our time, and his.

We can have a positive effect on those around us, and perhaps help them to have a better life than they would without us in their lives. Or we can make their lives more difficult for having us around. I believe you are right in one respect about God. The God that you often rage against probably does not exist.

The God I believe in is the one that wrote the "Golden Rule". The one that says to us, "Love even your enemies, as if they were your own." "Treat each other with love and respect." "Do to others and you would have them do to you." "If you want something changed in the world, you have to do the changing."

LarsMac;1457142 wrote: "If you want something changed in the world, you have to do the changing."


"God helps those who help themselves," eh? Yep. I agree.

Gosh, Saint_ you get handsomer (more handsome?) day by day!

AnneBoleyn;1457182 wrote: Gosh, Saint_ you get handsomer (more handsome?) day by day!


lol. Awww.. you kid!:yh_youkid

My daddy used to always say that God answers all prayers just sometimes the answer is no.

Hope6;1457587 wrote: My daddy used to always say that God answers all prayers just sometimes the answer is no.


That's a very sensible answer Georgia.

Hope6;1457587 wrote: My daddy used to always say that God answers all prayers just sometimes the answer is no.


Best answer I've ever heard...

Whether God exists or doesn't exist, people still have to find meaning and purpose in their lives, so the opener is kind of pointless in the long run! Because you can find scientific evidence against special creation and knock down one evidence of supernatural one after another, and still be left with a void when it comes to what to do with your life.

The scientific method is excellent at finding answers for the how questions, just not very good at the why's.

recovering conservative;1457676 wrote: Whether God exists or doesn't exist, people still have to find meaning and purpose in their lives, so the opener is kind of pointless in the long run! Because you can find scientific evidence against special creation and knock down one evidence of supernatural one after another, and still be left with a void when it comes to what to do with your life.

The scientific method is excellent at finding answers for the how questions, just not very good at the why's.
A very good point - That's one for Pahu.

FourPart;1457728 wrote: A very good point - That's one for Pahu.


You know, I've noticed that name, but never opened his threads, because they have titles like 'proof of creation' or proof against Darwinism etc., and I gave up on arguing with creationists more than 10 years ago. I figure that if someone really wants to wall themselves off from science, there's not much that I can do about it.

recovering conservative;1457771 wrote: You know, I've noticed that name, but never opened his threads, because they have titles like 'proof of creation' or proof against Darwinism etc., and I gave up on arguing with creationists more than 10 years ago. I figure that if someone really wants to wall themselves off from science, there's not much that I can do about it.


I feel that way about abortion & a female's right to ownership of her person. Abortion--no apologies/no excuses. That was our motto for it in the very beginning of the women's movement. I still have trouble in ignoring the ignorant. I must put that on my "To Do" list.