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Have facial features changed or has our perspective changed?

I asked my mum and dad this question yesterday..

A few years ago they had a temp. foster child. He who felt like a she was kicked out of his parents place because he said he was a transgender.

He asked us if we would call him by his "female" name and refer to him as her.

So we did. I don't like to call her by her real name, this being an open forum. But lets say she used to be called; Martin and now is called Margret.

When Margret put her wig and make up on, I swear you could not tell she was born a boy. Since the past year she has "fully" changed into a woman. According to the law, she is now also a woman.

I swear, you cannot tell she was ever born male.

Back to the first question.. Have facial features changed or has our perspective changed?

I was thinking that a lot of people born in the 1920's - 1960's (at least) seem to have definite male/female facial features.

Bringing the timeline forward a bit, not all of the people in my age group (1980's) have distinguished male / female facial features.. So when it turns out they are transgender, a lot of them, you can't ever really tell they used to be of the other sex , even before they have started hormonal treatment.

But have facial features actually changed or have we become more accepting of people coming in all different types/shapes/features etc. ?

I must say, I'm very proud of Margret.. She's now renting her first ever home. She forced herself to go back to school and work 2 jobs aswell! And during this she was having her "gender OP".

She said, if it wasn't for us, she wouldn't of known what to do, and thought she would have ended up in a horrible place. I'm glad she is doing so well

That discussion has actually been going on since I was a kid.

Several Science Fiction writers of the sixties approached it.

You might find this site interesting:ANDROGYNY BECOMING GLOBAL

Or this: The News and Courier - Google News Archive Search

LarsMac;1448123 wrote: That discussion has actually been going on since I was a kid.

Several Science Fiction writers of the sixties approached it.

You might find this site interesting:ANDROGYNY BECOMING GLOBAL

Or this: The News and Courier - Google News Archive Search


ohh that is interesting!

thanks!

I believe it has more to do with what our mind perceives as "male" or "female." We are accustomed, even in the 21st century, to associate a certain mode of dress and bearing with like him or her.

In other words, unless you are a member of the gay community, when you encounter an earthling wearing lipstick & mascara with long hair and wearing some sort of female attire, you automatically assume that he/she is a female.

Likewise a person with short hair wearing a three piece men's suit and a derby would be like a man to the uninitiated.

Appearances of course can be very deceiving.

jones jones;1448142 wrote: I believe it has more to do with what our mind perceives as "male" or "female." We are accustomed, even in the 21st century, to associate a certain mode of dress and bearing with like him or her.

In other words, unless you are a member of the gay community, when you encounter an earthling wearing lipstick & mascara with long hair and wearing some sort of female attire, you automatically assume that he/she is a female.

Likewise a person with short hair wearing a three piece men's suit and a derby would be like a man to the uninitiated.

Appearances of course can be very deceiving.


Also interesting.. So nothing to do with actual facial features or anything, but purely on wardrobe etc..

Good point JJ!

jones jones;1448142 wrote: I believe it has more to do with what our mind perceives as "male" or "female." We are accustomed, even in the 21st century, to associate a certain mode of dress and bearing with like him or her.

In other words, unless you are a member of the gay community, when you encounter an earthling wearing lipstick & mascara with long hair and wearing some sort of female attire, you automatically assume that he/she is a female.

Likewise a person with short hair wearing a three piece men's suit and a derby would be like a man to the uninitiated.

Appearances of course can be very deceiving.


Not really that simple.

My cousin married a fellow who wanted to, and finally did go through a transgender process. and no matter how he/she dresses, or how make-up is applied, his facial features are basically masculine. I used to know quite a few Transgenders and a lot of female impersonators when I lived in New Orleans, some years back.

Some could transform very nicely between male and female appearance, others, well, not so well. You could tell where they came from, if you know what I mean.

I remember one fellow who I knew for several months before I realized she was a he. He was quite good at being female, and when I met his male side, we had talked for half an hour before I caught on.

And, perhaps because of that time, I learned not to make assumptions based on the outward appearance so much. I can usually tell the difference.

Younger folk can pull off the transformation much easier than older, so there is something about mileage in the formula, of course.

It seems that as children, humans appear quite androgynous, but as their identities take shape, they take on the characteristics of their own identity. Perhaps it's true that modern society may not focus on the distinction as much as it used to.

I guess some are more lucky than others when being transgender..

And I guess there is not just one simple answer to my question in my OP. I do wonder how Margret will age, seen as men do age differently than woman do (hairline etc.)

Margret learned that the more makeup she put on, the more of a man she looked (like drag make up). Now she keeps it quite natural and you could never tell she was ever a he.

She's training to be a beautician now, rents her own home and has never been happier.

The only sad thing is even though she is now a woman even according to the law, her mum and dad will not speak to her and still refer to her as a man. (Margret knows this because she is still in contact with her sister).

I agree with you Lars it is hard sometimes for people to tell with children . Jake has been mistaken for a girl at times all his life and even though he's now 7, it just happened again the other day. I think its the hair!

Chloe, I think it is facial expressions that have changed, along with our outlook. The WWII generation, for example, were more serious & took adulthood seriously & that showed on their faces. They had a tougher life which was a serious matter. Life was bleaker, more invested in reality. They were meeker people, in general, had more respect.

Then, after the sixties came the youth culture, where everyone wants to be carefree, youthful as long as possible, many people resent responsibility to marriage, family. We have less respect, & sometimes, like in daring to question society--that's a good thing. We expect happiness. Happiness has become our main goal. We feel we deserve more than our parents, grandparents, did.

So, to briefly sum up, our perspective has changed, changing us.

Chloe_88;1448163 wrote: I guess some are more lucky than others when being transgender..

And I guess there is not just one simple answer to my question in my OP. I do wonder how Margret will age, seen as men do age differently than woman do (hairline etc.)




But we are discovering that gender is not binary. Hairline and other things are not simply a matter of whether one was born with M/F genitals. It is far more complicated than that. Now that they have discovered that some medications behave differently for males and females, it becomes even more complicated.

Wandrin;1448232 wrote: But we are discovering that gender is not binary. Hairline and other things are not simply a matter of whether one was born with M/F genitals. It is far more complicated than that. Now that they have discovered that some medications behave differently for males and females, it becomes even more complicated.


So to sum it up there isn't just one simple answer to my question..

How interesting that there seem to be many different factors..