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We have all seen the images on TV, Budapest the drowned child, seen the banter back and forth between governments....Merkel........Cameron........................so what is the answer ?

Food and shelter and open arms. This is a human crisis that these host countries need to address NOW. Future ramifications be damned.



I am ashamed.

I am just watching the events in Hungary, the authorities have been stopping Syrians boarding trains in Budapest, but today they allowed them to board only to stop further down the line to off load them for processing.

The panic as they rushed to board, and then the scenes when they forcefully unloaded the train is horrific.

It's the narrative. It's the language. And it seems all pervasive every where. I know the circumstances are different but is this how it sounded before the Nazis decided to rid the world of Jews.

It horrifies me that so many people are so dismissive of all of them and are able to just switch off from it.

It shameful to read the language on FB. I thought we were better than that.

along-for-the-ride;1485523 wrote: Food and shelter and open arms. This is a human crisis that these host countries need to address NOW. Future ramifications be damned.



I am ashamed.


Maybe America should offer to take some of these migrants fleeing ISIS; you've definitely got the room for them!

Maybe we could ship over some republicans to make room for them.

Smaug;1485611 wrote: Maybe America should offer to take some of these migrants fleeing ISIS; you've definitely got the room for them!


If they could find a way to get here, they should be welcomed.

We have a spare bedroom.

Jeremy Corbyn's opinion.....I go along with that HERE

along-for-the-ride;1485641 wrote: If they could find a way to get here, they should be welcomed.

We have a spare bedroom.


Well, that's a few catered for. Not sure how much room we've got spare at our place, though!

Bruv;1485705 wrote: Jeremy Corbyn's opinion.....I go along with that HERE


So would I, by-and-large. The US/UK alliance has caused most of this (Bliar/Dubyer), so it is morally incumbent on us to sort OUR mess out, as it is for the US. If the US were to send a fleet of large passenger ships, and offer aslum to 50% of these refugees, maybe they would be doing their share! Until then....

As for us being able to take most of this almost endless migration, I personally doubt out ability to achieve this. Our infrastructure is struggling now; we NEED help, 'big-time'. Already, we have one of the highest populations per square mile in the EU, and one of the smallest agricultural outputs, plus the swingeing cuts foisted upon us by the tory 'silver-spoon brigade', in response to the previous labour government overspend, and it's own continuing incompetence.

What a mess these 'book-learned' political animals have made of millions of lives....And for what?

Here is a PETITION to stop Immigrants coming here........................wonder if the muppet that posted it, worded it this way so as to accept Refugees ?

Yes I doubt it too....................

UK to accept 20,000 refugees from Syria by 2020

Spread over the next 5 years ?

That is a strange time scale limitation to an immediate crisis.

That's what I was trying to warn spot about. Too great an influx would trigger a backlash.

then there's the whole "Syrians are our enemies, aren't they?" thing. There's no guarantee of gratefulness for letting them in. Within a generation, I'll bet the newcomers will be a problem...

What I want to know is............ Dubbya started all this off and his poodle Tony BLIAR (yes I know it's Blair) agreed with everything and dragged both America and the UK into conflict in Iraq and de-stabilised the Middle East. So what is America going to do to help?

There were millions (including my hubby and son) who went to London for a massive rally against attacking Iraq, even Dubbya was at No.10 at the time !!!! But even though there was tremendous shouting and terrific noise, nobody at No.10 heard the cries. But they did really, because Dubbya mentioned to Bliar that it was interesting that the British public could still protest in numbers. They couldn't not hear. But even though the masses stopped London, they could not stop Dubbya and his poodle going to war with Iraq.

So America and UK caused de-stabilisation in the Middle East which developed into the problems that we see now. So America when are you going to offer help and take in thousands of refugees like other countries are doing in Europe. You have as much responsibility for causing this terrible situation as UK and other countries. Your country is massive where UK is tiny in comparison. So how about sending a load of passenger ships to Calais and the Mediterranean and fetching thousands of those poor refugees, including women and children, fleeing from their war torn countries, and take them to America.

G#Gill;1485862 wrote: What I want to know is............ Dubbya started all this off and his poodle Tony BLIAR (yes I know it's Blair) agreed with everything and dragged both America and the UK into conflict in Iraq and de-stabilised the Middle East. So what is America going to do to help?


Hey...you can't blame us. Bush lied to us too!

So America and UK caused de-stabilisation in the Middle East which developed into the problems that we see now.


You're implying that the Middle East was previously "stable." It hasn't been for thousands of years.

So how about sending a load of passenger ships ...and take them to America.


Oh, sorry about that. Actually we wanted to, but even if we brought them over here, they'd never get over the "Trump Wall" surrounding our country.

The Middle East has hardly been stable since the Collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Sure, Bush and Blair didn't help when they went to beat up on Saddam, but they didn't cause all of this.

Regardless of the causes, is it right for the call to go out for people to house refugees for free, while the Death List of the thousands of those who have had their benefits stopped after being deemed 'fit for work' have died - many who have been evicted & living on the streets for not being able to pay their rent.

It is generally accepted that we already have a housing crisis, with thousands of homeless families of our own. How can we possibly expect to open the doors to 20,000 more by 2020 (very conveniently, the next election year)?

It may fly in the face of the common PC humanitarian trend, but surely we have to start doing some hard thinking with our minds instead of with our hearts. Emotions are one thing. Realities, unfortunately, are an entirely different thing.

It seems only fair. We (US and Europe) send all manner of bombs and missiles flying into their country and then run away from the killing and want to come to the supply side of the destruction rather than stay in the receiving side.

FourPart;1485884 wrote: Regardless of the causes, is it right for the call to go out for people to house refugees for free, while the Death List of the thousands of those who have had their benefits stopped after being deemed 'fit for work' have died - many who have been evicted & living on the streets for not being able to pay their rent.

It is generally accepted that we already have a housing crisis, with thousands of homeless families of our own. How can we possibly expect to open the doors to 20,000 more by 2020 (very conveniently, the next election year)?

It may fly in the face of the common PC humanitarian trend, but surely we have to start doing some hard thinking with our minds instead of with our hearts. Emotions are one thing. Realities, unfortunately, are an entirely different thing.


Any housing crisis is down to Thatchers Right to Buy in my opinion, nothing to do with there not being enough dwellings. I can take you to at least three empty properties within 2 minutes walk of my house (make that 4) all in the hands of private landlords who for some reason have left them empty. If they were in Council hands the waiting list would be that much shorter.

Stopped Benefit payment is down to political dogma, not lack of money, as the purchase and later sale of Big Banks 'in trouble' proves......more dogma.

This is the sort of thing that says it all...

Sweets Way shows London what regeneration should look like | Ellie Mae O’Hagan | Comment is free | The Guardian

While we are being encouraged to take refugees into our homes for free...,

According to some residents, though it’s not clear who was responsible for the evictions, they involved people being dragged screaming out of their homes in February and then offered alternative accommodation as far away as Essex and Luton.

FourPart;1485884 wrote: Regardless of the causes, is it right for the call to go out for people to house refugees for free, while the Death List of the thousands of those who have had their benefits stopped after being deemed 'fit for work' have died - many who have been evicted & living on the streets for not being able to pay their rent.

It is generally accepted that we already have a housing crisis, with thousands of homeless families of our own. How can we possibly expect to open the doors to 20,000 more by 2020 (very conveniently, the next election year)?

It may fly in the face of the common PC humanitarian trend, but surely we have to start doing some hard thinking with our minds instead of with our hearts. Emotions are one thing. Realities, unfortunately, are an entirely different thing.


I totally agree with you on this, FourPart!! What happened to reality and common sense? If we keep on blaming previous administrations for the current housing crisis, we'll eventually end up blaming Hitler! It's no good blaming Thatcher for THIS crisis; we've had plenty of time to put it right, haven't we?

If you're looking to point the finger of blame, look no further than Tony 'war criminal' Bliar of the Labour party with his WMD lies. The 'domino effect' began right there.

LarsMac;1485881 wrote: The Middle East has hardly been stable since the Collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Sure, Bush and Blair didn't help when they went to beat up on Saddam, but they didn't cause all of this.


Power vacuums, Lars. That's what Dubya and Bliar caused between then; it has fostered the growth of ISIS and other terror/Jihadi groups. When the US/UK alliance went into Iraq, it utterly de-stabilized that country, and left it wide open to ISIS takeover. The blame lies with US/UK foreign policy. We are largely to blame for everything that follows. If we had kept our noses out of Iraq, ISIS wouldn't be there now.

And to think, we nearly bombed president Assad's forces in Syria. Had we done that, we'd have presented Syria to ISIS on a plate!

I can see a pattern forming here....

Smaug;1485912 wrote: Power vacuums, Lars. That's what Dubya and Bliar caused between then; it has fostered the growth of ISIS and other terror/Jihadi groups. When the US/UK alliance went into Iraq, it utterly de-stabilized that country, and left it wide open to ISIS takeover. The blame lies with US/UK foreign policy. We are largely to blame for everything that follows. If we had kept our noses out of Iraq, ISIS wouldn't be there now.

And to think, we nearly bombed president Assad's forces in Syria. Had we done that, we'd have presented Syria to ISIS on a plate!

I can see a pattern forming here....


I am not ignorant of the recent happenings in the region, Thank you. But situation was hardly stable when we took Saddam out of the picture.



All we did was change the neighborhood bully.

LarsMac;1485916 wrote: I am not ignorant of the recent happenings in the region, Thank you. But situation was hardly stable when we took Saddam out of the picture.



All we did was change the neighborhood bully.


We've done more than that, Lars! We've launched something utterly evil in the region and it's hell-bent on subjugating most of the Middle East and a goodly chunk of Europe. We've caused the growth of an implacable cancer here. A bit more than changing the local bully, methinks! Time for the US to step up to the plate and take some of these refugees that US/UK illegal war has caused, rather than leaving the whole issue for Europe to deal with, otherwise we'll all wake up to a Fascist Europe in the next decade or so!

Smaug;1485909 wrote: I totally agree with you on this, FourPart!! What happened to reality and common sense? If we keep on blaming previous administrations for the current housing crisis, we'll eventually end up blaming Hitler! It's no good blaming Thatcher for THIS crisis; we've had plenty of time to put it right, haven't we?

If you're looking to point the finger of blame, look no further than Tony 'war criminal' Bliar of the Labour party with his WMD lies. The 'domino effect' began right there.


I only wish I was more historically aware of dates and stuff. But as you mentioned Hitler and Thatcher and that you can't blame past administrations, I suspect Hitler was the direct cause for the need for a post war boom in house building for decades after his death. Similarly Thatchers policies didn't die when she left office, they are still with us and now and with the latest proposal to sell off Housing Association property getting worse.

The affect has been to move vast amounts of property from Council owned and maintained firstly into private ownership, then into private landlord's hands as the financial crisis bit with over stretched home owners at the mercy of the bankers and increasing mortgage payments. The homes got sold off cheaply and the banks got bailed out..........strange turn out ?

Now as the benefit bill rises, paying those private landlords excessive rents, the government puts a cap on benefit.....................and all down to Thatchers policies.

Stop Migration Petition........................bit of a worry ain't it?

Bruv;1485921 wrote: I only wish I was more historically aware of dates and stuff. But as you mentioned Hitler and Thatcher and that you can't blame past administrations, I suspect Hitler was the direct cause for the need for a post war boom in house building for decades after his death. Similarly Thatchers policies didn't die when she left office, they are still with us and now and with the latest proposal to sell off Housing Association property getting worse.

The affect has been to move vast amounts of property from Council owned and maintained firstly into private ownership, then into private landlord's hands as the financial crisis bit with over stretched home owners at the mercy of the bankers and increasing mortgage payments. The homes got sold off cheaply and the banks got bailed out..........strange turn out ?

Now as the benefit bill rises, paying those private landlords excessive rents, the government puts a cap on benefit.....................and all down to Thatchers policies.


Yes, they DO have a bearing. The trouble is that we have not built more houses for council stock. And successive governments had plenty of time to do this. Having said that, we don't have unlimited space for houses in this small kingdom of ours; not and have an agricultural output

too. The tories privatised just about everything; the idiots! Any fool can sell 'the family silver', can't they? They didn't have the right, IMO, as WE OWNED MOST OF WHAT THEY SOLD TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR!!

Theft on a grand scale; very in keeping with the dictionary definition of 'tory'.

Bruv;1485922 wrote: Stop Migration Petition........................bit of a worry ain't it?


It is a worry, but as I have said on other threads, most recetly on 'the lessons of history',post #4 ;

I blame US/UK foreign policy for most of our current problems. We have caused power vacuums in various Middle Eastern countries with 'regime change', which has allowed and encouraged groups such as ISIS to flourish, which, in turn, has displaced masses of people who are heading for 'pastures new'; Europe, in most cases. This, in turn, is providing much fuel for the fire to the far-right groups here in Europe.

Combine this with financial hardship, and a lack of work; classic 'domino effect'.

Greece is a prime example, though there are many other EU nations with a growing fascist threat!

But....but....but there is a glimmer of light.......an alternative Petition

I signed the first one. Although it is clearly directed towards being anti Islam, I believe that we are physically too small a country to allow EU open door immigration policies to continue, let alone inviting all asundry in from around the rest of the world as well. We have our own Housing Crisis. We have our own people relying on Food Banks. Our National Health Service is falling apart. We simply cannot afford to fund all comers.

Bruv;1485928 wrote: But....but....but there is a glimmer of light.......an alternative Petition


To be honest, I feel we are groaning at the seams as it is, with all the migration from within the Eu ( approx 200,000 per annum), PLUS those from outside the EU ( approx 300,000 per annum), making a grand total of approx. 500,000 NEW residents yearly, not to mention all the illegals! How long is it reasonable to expect his process to be allowed to continue? The strain on every aspect of this nation's infrastructure, jobs, housing and culture is going to be insupportable before long;-leading to the inevitable backlash I.E. the accelerated rise of the far-right!

This process CANNOT continue indefinitely. We simply haven't the resources available. We house refugees and migrants at the expense of the already vunerable people who were born here. It's equivalent to turning out your own

family from their home to house strangers, and it's just not 'on'.

Thousands have died already because of benefit cuts.

The help we give must be in the form of stabilizing, as opposed to invading tottering states, thus reducing the need for people to flee their homeland.

Why oh why have we followed the US down the road of 'regime change' tactics? It's a relatively recent thing, Bruv, and very shortsighted. There are no easy answers, I'm afraid, but if we continue on this course, there WILL be a huge backlash, and that will cost many more lives than have already been lost so far. People will only take so much before becoming militant/violent or revolutionary. Time to come to our senses!

To say nothing of subsequent generations that will be born here of 'temporary' refugees.

FourPart;1485933 wrote: To say nothing of subsequent generations that will be born here of 'temporary' refugees.


With it's inevitable effect on the demographics....