FourPart;1496595 wrote: Writers, composers, painters - anyone who creates something will be inspired by things. Think how many songs / books / paintings are inspired by (romantic) love. The same can be said for travel, colours, moods, etc. Many people may get the same inspiration, but what comes of that inspiration is purely in the mind of the person who creates it. It doesn't mean that anything has been 'revealed' to them. It's just an inspiration. A trigger. Whatever it is that starts it off, the rest is pure imagination.
Well as I said, it would be hard to explain this to an Atheist. I have been a writer for years, and I know how it is to draw a blank and have nothing to say, and to be filled and write all day long. With the bible, or spiritual things, I know when something enters into my consciousness that was not my imagination. Biblical knowledge is mounting; it grows; the understanding will see something totally differing to the same thing you have read for years. Its like a whole new avenue being opened to now travel on. You put it together with other verses you have read and learned; you see humans and history doing exactly what the scripture stated.
You just shake your head in awe.
And sometimes it enables you to see right through the plastic in this world; in its people.
The fear of this site being religious
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1496598 wrote: Well as I said, it would be hard to explain this to an Atheist. I have been a writer for years, and I know how it is to draw a blank and have nothing to say, and to be filled and write all day long. With the bible, or spiritual things, I know when something enters into my consciousness that was not my imagination. Biblical knowledge is mounting; it grows; the understanding will see something totally differing to the same thing you have read for years. Its like a whole new avenue being opened to now travel on. You put it together with other verses you have read and learned; you see humans and history doing exactly what the scripture stated.
You just shake your head in awe.
And sometimes it enables you to see right through the plastic in this world; in its people.
I am a musician. I write music. I frequently get the same kind of blocks. As an art form it's self defeating to sit down & think, "Right, what masterpiece can I write today"? It comes from deep within. Emotions. Most of my best pieces are of a sombre nature, as they tend to be written at times when I'm feeling suicidal. What you might even call a 'troubled soul'. This, however is not a 'revealing' of some unseen deity, but an expression of an abstract something that is already there. Yes - by all means shake your head in awe, but don't attribute it to something that doesn't exist.
You just shake your head in awe.
And sometimes it enables you to see right through the plastic in this world; in its people.
I am a musician. I write music. I frequently get the same kind of blocks. As an art form it's self defeating to sit down & think, "Right, what masterpiece can I write today"? It comes from deep within. Emotions. Most of my best pieces are of a sombre nature, as they tend to be written at times when I'm feeling suicidal. What you might even call a 'troubled soul'. This, however is not a 'revealing' of some unseen deity, but an expression of an abstract something that is already there. Yes - by all means shake your head in awe, but don't attribute it to something that doesn't exist.
The fear of this site being religious
A good deal of the Bible is midrash which was an ancient form of writing and interpreting. It made a great use of metaphor and former stories to tell new ideas. It is for the most part midrash with maybe some of the actual letters that Paul wrote but not pseudo- Paul.
The fear of this site being religious
Midrash is fine - when it's accepted as such. It's when they start taking it literally when things start going awry. At least the Parables were accepted as being midrash, but only because they were stated as such outright - unless, of course, they actually believed that the Good Samaritan really existed.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1496573 wrote: Well again, I think it is meaningless for A theist explain to an Atheist, why they believe the bible to be the word God. If there is a God , he can only contact humans person to person, or through of written form; God actually did a bit of both. From as far as I can count, God has only visited earth only twice. God only personally wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone that got destroyed. All other biblical book were written by men and women. They wrote what they were inspired to write.
I believe in " Inspiration to write"; its a real motivating spirit, not limited to just religion. All writers know what I am talking about; something comes over you, you are full of ideas and motivation, and you can just go for hours. And you can be very profound in what you write; or what your consciousness has seen. Writers don't need a God to experience this, but when God does actually get involved in the motivation to write, when it is he who is motivating the human to write, its incredible, and that is how we got the bible.
I have written things before, went back and read it again, and I just knew that came out of a part of me that had motivation from somewherelse. Its the same way with " Spiritual understanding and Knowledge"; you just know it was not you who put those thoughts there. A spirit put it in your consciousness, and I can read others, and what they wrote, and can tell they were motivated to write as well. The biblical authors were motivated; its obvious to me, because I have experienced that spirit which complels you to write or talk. Even to live a certain way.
In other words you have no reason you just do. So far as the individual is concerned that's up to them and I have no issue with that except on an individual basis if their faith is so strong why get upset if anyone challenges it. Now mainstream religion is demanding that their beliefs should just be accepted and not criticised.
The problem with some theists and religions is that they go on to claim the moral high ground to lectrure people on how to lead their lives and claim the moral authority to impose their beliefs on civil society as a whole and to claim as inferior and in some cases as non human anyone who disagrees with them. That is the basis of every religious fundamentalist movement - god tells me therefore it is so all you others should have no say in the matter. In the more extreme cases they slaughter non believers even those who also belioeve in a supreme being but just worship in the wrong way. You wonder why atheists and secularists are always talking about religion it's because you can't live and let live.
I believe in " Inspiration to write"; its a real motivating spirit, not limited to just religion. All writers know what I am talking about; something comes over you, you are full of ideas and motivation, and you can just go for hours. And you can be very profound in what you write; or what your consciousness has seen. Writers don't need a God to experience this, but when God does actually get involved in the motivation to write, when it is he who is motivating the human to write, its incredible, and that is how we got the bible.
I have written things before, went back and read it again, and I just knew that came out of a part of me that had motivation from somewherelse. Its the same way with " Spiritual understanding and Knowledge"; you just know it was not you who put those thoughts there. A spirit put it in your consciousness, and I can read others, and what they wrote, and can tell they were motivated to write as well. The biblical authors were motivated; its obvious to me, because I have experienced that spirit which complels you to write or talk. Even to live a certain way.
In other words you have no reason you just do. So far as the individual is concerned that's up to them and I have no issue with that except on an individual basis if their faith is so strong why get upset if anyone challenges it. Now mainstream religion is demanding that their beliefs should just be accepted and not criticised.
The problem with some theists and religions is that they go on to claim the moral high ground to lectrure people on how to lead their lives and claim the moral authority to impose their beliefs on civil society as a whole and to claim as inferior and in some cases as non human anyone who disagrees with them. That is the basis of every religious fundamentalist movement - god tells me therefore it is so all you others should have no say in the matter. In the more extreme cases they slaughter non believers even those who also belioeve in a supreme being but just worship in the wrong way. You wonder why atheists and secularists are always talking about religion it's because you can't live and let live.
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1496833 wrote: In other words you have no reason you just do. So far as the individual is concerned that's up to them and I have no issue with that except on an individual basis if their faith is so strong why get upset if anyone challenges it. Now mainstream religion is demanding that their beliefs should just be accepted and not criticised.
The problem with some theists and religions is that they go on to claim the moral high ground to lectrure people on how to lead their lives and claim the moral authority to impose their beliefs on civil society as a whole and to claim as inferior and in some cases as non human anyone who disagrees with them. That is the basis of every religious fundamentalist movement - god tells me therefore it is so all you others should have no say in the matter. In the more extreme cases they slaughter non believers even those who also belioeve in a supreme being but just worship in the wrong way. You wonder why atheists and secularists are always talking about religion it's because you can't live and let live.
I actually agree with everything you stated, except that I have no reason to believe in God; you just do not accept my reasoning. I know religion has done to people what you have suggested. Its just sadly true and indefensible. But explain to me what other forms of reason that people have accepted, that has not resulted in some of them using those reasons to behave just as badly as religious reason has caused.
Are you suggesting that no Atheist, no scientist, or any other forms of reason has not caused a human to just go off in life and behave in manners that are just stupid? Or have not tried to persuade others to think like they do? There is no such way in human life that is devoid of human behavior.
Can I blame all women because I am single?
Can I blame science for anything that has developed in our lives?
Can I blame Atheist if God does not speak to me?
Who should I blame if I become sick?
Who can I blame for cancer invading human life?
Who can I blame for my son being how he is?
Who can I thank for being cured of cancer?
Who do I need to convince if biblical principles has improved my life?
Is there anything wrong with me if I accept a combination of science, religion, and Atheism principles in my conscious observance of life?
How will you judge me if I like some of how you think, of how I think, and some of how others think? But then part of me dislikes how everyone thinks?
The problem with some theists and religions is that they go on to claim the moral high ground to lectrure people on how to lead their lives and claim the moral authority to impose their beliefs on civil society as a whole and to claim as inferior and in some cases as non human anyone who disagrees with them. That is the basis of every religious fundamentalist movement - god tells me therefore it is so all you others should have no say in the matter. In the more extreme cases they slaughter non believers even those who also belioeve in a supreme being but just worship in the wrong way. You wonder why atheists and secularists are always talking about religion it's because you can't live and let live.
I actually agree with everything you stated, except that I have no reason to believe in God; you just do not accept my reasoning. I know religion has done to people what you have suggested. Its just sadly true and indefensible. But explain to me what other forms of reason that people have accepted, that has not resulted in some of them using those reasons to behave just as badly as religious reason has caused.
Are you suggesting that no Atheist, no scientist, or any other forms of reason has not caused a human to just go off in life and behave in manners that are just stupid? Or have not tried to persuade others to think like they do? There is no such way in human life that is devoid of human behavior.
Can I blame all women because I am single?
Can I blame science for anything that has developed in our lives?
Can I blame Atheist if God does not speak to me?
Who should I blame if I become sick?
Who can I blame for cancer invading human life?
Who can I blame for my son being how he is?
Who can I thank for being cured of cancer?
Who do I need to convince if biblical principles has improved my life?
Is there anything wrong with me if I accept a combination of science, religion, and Atheism principles in my conscious observance of life?
How will you judge me if I like some of how you think, of how I think, and some of how others think? But then part of me dislikes how everyone thinks?
The fear of this site being religious
according to scholars the Bible was meant to be reinterpreted as time went on and as our knowledge grew. Epilepsy is not caused by demon possession.
The fear of this site being religious
posted by mickiel
I actually agree with everything you stated, except that I have no reason to believe in God; you just do not accept my reasoning. I know religion has done to people what you have suggested. Its just sadly true and indefensible. But explain to me what other forms of reason that people have accepted, that has not resulted in some of them using those reasons to behave just as badly as religious reason has caused.
No I don't accept your reasoning basically it seems to consists of you want to believe in god what evidence do you have and you claim the bible to be the inspired word of god ansd that all the versions have come down with the various translation and transcribers being insoired by god. It's absurd and if you do claom to take the bibe as the word of god that means you support slavery, the destrucion of non believers and in the absurd doctrine of origional sin.
What got me started on the track that led to my atheism was the simple question that If god made all men or people if you prefer why does he then select a chosen few to be his people? When he showed moses the promised land teeming with milk and honey and the people movimng amongst theri fileds was he really saying I made all this but you can go and take what you want it's no more than one tribe making a land grab from another. we arec the chosen of god is no more than an excuse.
I don't accept the bible as proof of god for the simple reason that anyone who studies it would realise all the contradictions and sheer insanity it contains if god exoists and that is his work he is at best insane at worst a malevolent capricious killer. Most christians I find have never actually sat down and stuidied the bible they just ingest the carfully edited bits they get at the pulpit and are unaware of the careful editing that has gone in to it. The enlightenment began when people started read the book for themselves and came to realise how much of what they had been told was false. It's a collection of myths and stories with some bits of historical information that can be verified no more than that. I could sit herte and deconstruct the whole thing but wonl;t because that is something you need to do for yourself.
But explain to me what other forms of reason that people have accepted, that has not resulted in some of them using those reasons to behave just as badly as religious reason has caused.
I wouldn't even try but one difference is what they did they did for their bown reasons and not because they claimed they had a god given right or god was on their sie and telling them what to do.
posted by mickiel
Well again, I think it is meaningless for A theist explain to an Atheist, why they believe the bible to be the word God. If there is a God , he can only contact humans person to person, or through of written form; God actually did a bit of both. From as far as I can count, God has only visited earth only twice. God only personally wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone that got destroyed. All other biblical book were written by men and women. They wrote what they were inspired to write.
That's nonsens if there is god then he can contact people any way he wants to if the bibe and person to person is the best he can do it's a bo=it poathetic is it not? Come to that why didn't he tell the chinese about himself after all they could write before anyone in the mediterranean.
You;re dead right i don't acceoptb your reasoning it doesn;lt make any kind of sense.
I actually agree with everything you stated, except that I have no reason to believe in God; you just do not accept my reasoning. I know religion has done to people what you have suggested. Its just sadly true and indefensible. But explain to me what other forms of reason that people have accepted, that has not resulted in some of them using those reasons to behave just as badly as religious reason has caused.
No I don't accept your reasoning basically it seems to consists of you want to believe in god what evidence do you have and you claim the bible to be the inspired word of god ansd that all the versions have come down with the various translation and transcribers being insoired by god. It's absurd and if you do claom to take the bibe as the word of god that means you support slavery, the destrucion of non believers and in the absurd doctrine of origional sin.
What got me started on the track that led to my atheism was the simple question that If god made all men or people if you prefer why does he then select a chosen few to be his people? When he showed moses the promised land teeming with milk and honey and the people movimng amongst theri fileds was he really saying I made all this but you can go and take what you want it's no more than one tribe making a land grab from another. we arec the chosen of god is no more than an excuse.
I don't accept the bible as proof of god for the simple reason that anyone who studies it would realise all the contradictions and sheer insanity it contains if god exoists and that is his work he is at best insane at worst a malevolent capricious killer. Most christians I find have never actually sat down and stuidied the bible they just ingest the carfully edited bits they get at the pulpit and are unaware of the careful editing that has gone in to it. The enlightenment began when people started read the book for themselves and came to realise how much of what they had been told was false. It's a collection of myths and stories with some bits of historical information that can be verified no more than that. I could sit herte and deconstruct the whole thing but wonl;t because that is something you need to do for yourself.
But explain to me what other forms of reason that people have accepted, that has not resulted in some of them using those reasons to behave just as badly as religious reason has caused.
I wouldn't even try but one difference is what they did they did for their bown reasons and not because they claimed they had a god given right or god was on their sie and telling them what to do.
posted by mickiel
Well again, I think it is meaningless for A theist explain to an Atheist, why they believe the bible to be the word God. If there is a God , he can only contact humans person to person, or through of written form; God actually did a bit of both. From as far as I can count, God has only visited earth only twice. God only personally wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone that got destroyed. All other biblical book were written by men and women. They wrote what they were inspired to write.
That's nonsens if there is god then he can contact people any way he wants to if the bibe and person to person is the best he can do it's a bo=it poathetic is it not? Come to that why didn't he tell the chinese about himself after all they could write before anyone in the mediterranean.
You;re dead right i don't acceoptb your reasoning it doesn;lt make any kind of sense.
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AnneBoleyn
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The fear of this site being religious
The Jews are not the Chosen People, they became so because they were the Choosing People. The god of Abraham was chosen by him to be the one & only god amongst many others. In Jewish theory, god had been rejected by other folks, so the Jews, through Abraham, chose and became the chosen. Theoretically, some other people could have gotten there first.
See: The Meaning of Jews as the Chosen People
See: The Meaning of Jews as the Chosen People
The fear of this site being religious
The main reason "Why" God choose Israel in the OT was to show the world that he will deal with a disobedient people and keep forgiving them. Which is symbolic of him forgiving the whole world. God has" Chosen" everyone! The bible says ALL have sinned! Jesus said in Luke 5:32, he came NOT to call the righteous,( or believers), but to CALL, ( or choose), the unbelievers, or sinners, which means us all!
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AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6632
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
The fear of this site being religious
whatever...........................
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497232 wrote: The main reason "Why" God choose Israel in the OT was to show the world that he will deal with a disobedient people and keep forgiving them. Which is symbolic of him forgiving the whole world. God has" Chosen" everyone! The bible says ALL have sinned! Jesus said in Luke 5:32, he came NOT to call the righteous,( or believers), but to CALL, ( or choose), the unbelievers, or sinners, which means us all!
(Note to self watch the tyoping)
You need to read all of a post before you respond
I don't believe god exists quoting the bible at me is just not a good argument for anything. The notion of original sin is an obscene one that I find hard to believe anyone actually believes in. If god made all sinners and non sinners, gave us all free will (but he knows what we will decide) plus all those who have never heard of the hebrew god then sends all the ones to hell who don't convert but he made them knowing what they would decide.
The whole thing is a load of rubbish. I wish you would read the whole thing from beginning to end maybe if you did you would come to the same consclusion
posted by anne boleyn
The Jews are not the Chosen People, they became so because they were the Choosing People. The god of Abraham was chosen by him to be the one & only god amongst many others. In Jewish theory, god had been rejected by other folks, so the Jews, through Abraham, chose and became the chosen. Theoretically, some other people could have gotten there first.
See: The Meaning of Jews as the Chosen People
I know that but the basic premise - that god exists - is not one that can be proven to be true.
(Note to self watch the tyoping)
You need to read all of a post before you respond
I don't believe god exists quoting the bible at me is just not a good argument for anything. The notion of original sin is an obscene one that I find hard to believe anyone actually believes in. If god made all sinners and non sinners, gave us all free will (but he knows what we will decide) plus all those who have never heard of the hebrew god then sends all the ones to hell who don't convert but he made them knowing what they would decide.
The whole thing is a load of rubbish. I wish you would read the whole thing from beginning to end maybe if you did you would come to the same consclusion
posted by anne boleyn
The Jews are not the Chosen People, they became so because they were the Choosing People. The god of Abraham was chosen by him to be the one & only god amongst many others. In Jewish theory, god had been rejected by other folks, so the Jews, through Abraham, chose and became the chosen. Theoretically, some other people could have gotten there first.
See: The Meaning of Jews as the Chosen People
I know that but the basic premise - that god exists - is not one that can be proven to be true.
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AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6632
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
The fear of this site being religious
gmc: "posted by anne boleyn
The Jews are not the Chosen People, they became so because they were the Choosing People. The god of Abraham was chosen by him to be the one & only god amongst many others. In Jewish theory, god had been rejected by other folks, so the Jews, through Abraham, chose and became the chosen. Theoretically, some other people could have gotten there first.
See: The Meaning of Jews as the Chosen People
I know that but the basic premise - that god exists - is not one that can be proven to be true."
Yeah, gmc, I was just explaining a remark made by you. I don't believe there is a god or that the idea can be proven either way. Lots of Jews have always been secular or atheists, which makes us no less Jewish for reasons I can't begin to explain. Maybe it's in shared agonies, humor, it would take a book. If I go to hell I'll ask Adolph.
The Jews are not the Chosen People, they became so because they were the Choosing People. The god of Abraham was chosen by him to be the one & only god amongst many others. In Jewish theory, god had been rejected by other folks, so the Jews, through Abraham, chose and became the chosen. Theoretically, some other people could have gotten there first.
See: The Meaning of Jews as the Chosen People
I know that but the basic premise - that god exists - is not one that can be proven to be true."
Yeah, gmc, I was just explaining a remark made by you. I don't believe there is a god or that the idea can be proven either way. Lots of Jews have always been secular or atheists, which makes us no less Jewish for reasons I can't begin to explain. Maybe it's in shared agonies, humor, it would take a book. If I go to hell I'll ask Adolph.
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497247 wrote: (Note to self watch the tyoping)
You need to read all of a post before you respond
I don't believe god exists quoting the bible at me is just not a good argument for anything. The notion of original sin is an obscene one that I find hard to believe anyone actually believes in. If god made all sinners and non sinners, gave us all free will (but he knows what we will decide) plus all those who have never heard of the hebrew god then sends all the ones to hell who don't convert but he made them knowing what they would decide.
The whole thing is a load of rubbish. I wish you would read the whole thing from beginning to end maybe if you did you would come to the same consclusion
posted by anne boleyn
I know that but the basic premise - that god exists - is not one that can be proven to be true.
From what I have read, God has not given humanity free will, and there is no such place as this Christian hell you refer to; both of those things are rubbish, yes. The notion of original sin is also rubbish; you are judging me by the beliefs of others, not my beliefs; which I state clearly yearly on site. You need to read what I write from beginning to end.
You need to read all of a post before you respond
I don't believe god exists quoting the bible at me is just not a good argument for anything. The notion of original sin is an obscene one that I find hard to believe anyone actually believes in. If god made all sinners and non sinners, gave us all free will (but he knows what we will decide) plus all those who have never heard of the hebrew god then sends all the ones to hell who don't convert but he made them knowing what they would decide.
The whole thing is a load of rubbish. I wish you would read the whole thing from beginning to end maybe if you did you would come to the same consclusion
posted by anne boleyn
I know that but the basic premise - that god exists - is not one that can be proven to be true.
From what I have read, God has not given humanity free will, and there is no such place as this Christian hell you refer to; both of those things are rubbish, yes. The notion of original sin is also rubbish; you are judging me by the beliefs of others, not my beliefs; which I state clearly yearly on site. You need to read what I write from beginning to end.
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AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6632
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497250 wrote: From what I have read, God has not given humanity free will, and there is no such place as this Christian hell you refer to; both of those things are rubbish, yes. The notion of original sin is also rubbish; you are judging me by the beliefs of others, not my beliefs; which I state clearly yearly on site. You need to read what I write from beginning to end.
re: Hell. I was joking. Not being serious.
re: Judging you. I was writing only to gmc, didn't mean you at all.
re: Hell. I was joking. Not being serious.
re: Judging you. I was writing only to gmc, didn't mean you at all.
The fear of this site being religious
AnneBoleyn;1497249 wrote: gmc: "posted by anne boleyn
The Jews are not the Chosen People, they became so because they were the Choosing People. The god of Abraham was chosen by him to be the one & only god amongst many others. In Jewish theory, god had been rejected by other folks, so the Jews, through Abraham, chose and became the chosen. Theoretically, some other people could have gotten there first.
See: The Meaning of Jews as the Chosen People
I know that but the basic premise - that god exists - is not one that can be proven to be true."
Yeah, gmc, I was just explaining a remark made by you. I don't believe there is a god or that the idea can be proven either way. Lots of Jews have always been secular or atheists, which makes us no less Jewish for reasons I can't begin to explain. Maybe it's in shared agonies, humor, it would take a book. If I go to hell I'll ask Adolph.
When referring to the chosen people I was thinking more of the numerous sects that believe that they and they alone are the chosen few that will be saved at the end of times from catholiocs to zoroastrians and all the letters in between. Follow our way or got to hell.
posted by mickiel
From what I have read, God has not given humanity free will, and there is no such place as this Christian hell you refer to; both of those things are rubbish, yes. The notion of original sin is also rubbish; you are judging me by the beliefs of others, not my beliefs; which I state clearly yearly on site. You need to read what I write from beginning to end.
I'm not sure you know what you believe. Original sin is at the heart of christian doctrine it's what got adam and eve chucked out of paradise and JC came to earth to offer a path to redemption if you don't have free will then you are a plaything of the gods or god and your life has no purpose but to play his games. If you don't believe in original sin then you are not a christian since you don't need a path to redemption which is fine by me.
If you're making your own religion up as you go you can't have it all ways. If the bible is how god talks to people and you believe it to be the word of god and also the proof of god in that it is his revelation to the writers then if you reject concepts like original then what was the point of JC being sacrificed?
It is your opinion there is no hell - go on line no doubt you will find many who disagree with you - but if there is no hell who needs redemption to save themselves from eternal damnation
I have no real intention of discussing doctrine with you but it's hard to resist the temptation - if god hasn't given us free will the it makes religion even more pointless than I thought it was - except that's not what I think since i don't have free will the thought is not my own.
So you don't believe in the christian god neither do I Hooray we agree on something
The Jews are not the Chosen People, they became so because they were the Choosing People. The god of Abraham was chosen by him to be the one & only god amongst many others. In Jewish theory, god had been rejected by other folks, so the Jews, through Abraham, chose and became the chosen. Theoretically, some other people could have gotten there first.
See: The Meaning of Jews as the Chosen People
I know that but the basic premise - that god exists - is not one that can be proven to be true."
Yeah, gmc, I was just explaining a remark made by you. I don't believe there is a god or that the idea can be proven either way. Lots of Jews have always been secular or atheists, which makes us no less Jewish for reasons I can't begin to explain. Maybe it's in shared agonies, humor, it would take a book. If I go to hell I'll ask Adolph.
When referring to the chosen people I was thinking more of the numerous sects that believe that they and they alone are the chosen few that will be saved at the end of times from catholiocs to zoroastrians and all the letters in between. Follow our way or got to hell.
posted by mickiel
From what I have read, God has not given humanity free will, and there is no such place as this Christian hell you refer to; both of those things are rubbish, yes. The notion of original sin is also rubbish; you are judging me by the beliefs of others, not my beliefs; which I state clearly yearly on site. You need to read what I write from beginning to end.
I'm not sure you know what you believe. Original sin is at the heart of christian doctrine it's what got adam and eve chucked out of paradise and JC came to earth to offer a path to redemption if you don't have free will then you are a plaything of the gods or god and your life has no purpose but to play his games. If you don't believe in original sin then you are not a christian since you don't need a path to redemption which is fine by me.
If you're making your own religion up as you go you can't have it all ways. If the bible is how god talks to people and you believe it to be the word of god and also the proof of god in that it is his revelation to the writers then if you reject concepts like original then what was the point of JC being sacrificed?
It is your opinion there is no hell - go on line no doubt you will find many who disagree with you - but if there is no hell who needs redemption to save themselves from eternal damnation
I have no real intention of discussing doctrine with you but it's hard to resist the temptation - if god hasn't given us free will the it makes religion even more pointless than I thought it was - except that's not what I think since i don't have free will the thought is not my own.
So you don't believe in the christian god neither do I Hooray we agree on something
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497252 wrote: When referring to the chosen people I was thinking more of the numerous sects that believe that they and they alone are the chosen few that will be saved at the end of times from catholiocs to zoroastrians and all the letters in between. Follow our way or got to hell.
posted by mickiel
I'm not sure you know what you believe. Original sin is at the heart of christian doctrine it's what got adam and eve chucked out of paradise and JC came to earth to offer a path to redemption if you don't have free will then you are a plaything of the gods or god and your life has no purpose but to play his games. If you don't believe in original sin then you are not a christian since you don't need a path to redemption which is fine by me.
If you're making your own religion up as you go you can't have it all ways. If the bible is how god talks to people and you believe it to be the word of god and also the proof of god in that it is his revelation to the writers then if you reject concepts like original then what was the point of JC being sacrificed?
It is your opinion there is no hell - go on line no doubt you will find many who disagree with you - but if there is no hell who needs redemption to save themselves from eternal damnation
I have no real intention of discussing doctrine with you but it's hard to resist the temptation - if god hasn't given us free will the it makes religion even more pointless than I thought it was - except that's not what I think since i don't have free will the thought is not my own.
So you don't believe in the christian god neither do I Hooray we agree on something
Well I am not a Christian and I disagree with their views. And I think religion is pointless ; but I do not see free will in humanity ; a will that is free , would be free from all outside influences ,which I view as impossible. And I reject that concept of original sin ; it was God who predeternmined the events in Eden. I think both Theism and Atheism is pointless in many areas. Not all areas, but in my view , most of them.
posted by mickiel
I'm not sure you know what you believe. Original sin is at the heart of christian doctrine it's what got adam and eve chucked out of paradise and JC came to earth to offer a path to redemption if you don't have free will then you are a plaything of the gods or god and your life has no purpose but to play his games. If you don't believe in original sin then you are not a christian since you don't need a path to redemption which is fine by me.
If you're making your own religion up as you go you can't have it all ways. If the bible is how god talks to people and you believe it to be the word of god and also the proof of god in that it is his revelation to the writers then if you reject concepts like original then what was the point of JC being sacrificed?
It is your opinion there is no hell - go on line no doubt you will find many who disagree with you - but if there is no hell who needs redemption to save themselves from eternal damnation
I have no real intention of discussing doctrine with you but it's hard to resist the temptation - if god hasn't given us free will the it makes religion even more pointless than I thought it was - except that's not what I think since i don't have free will the thought is not my own.
So you don't believe in the christian god neither do I Hooray we agree on something
Well I am not a Christian and I disagree with their views. And I think religion is pointless ; but I do not see free will in humanity ; a will that is free , would be free from all outside influences ,which I view as impossible. And I reject that concept of original sin ; it was God who predeternmined the events in Eden. I think both Theism and Atheism is pointless in many areas. Not all areas, but in my view , most of them.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497254 wrote: Well I am not a Christian and I disagree with their views. And I think religion is pointless ; but I do not see free will in humanity ; a will that is free , would be free from all outside influences ,which I view as impossible. And I reject that concept of original sin ; it was God who predeternmined the events in Eden. I think both Theism and Atheism is pointless in many areas. Not all areas, but in my view , most of them.
Which is one of the reasons original sin doesn't make any sense as a core belief. Maybe that's why you are not supposed to ask questions of your faith.
There is no point to atheism all it is is the simple rejection of the existence of god because there is insufficient evidence that there is such a being. Don't tell me you are fallking in to then mistake of thinking atheism is just a variation on religion with it's own system of core beliefs etc etc.
So what is the point of theism in your view?
can anyone tell me why I don't notice my typing errors until I go back in and look at a post the next day? I really can spell you know.
Which is one of the reasons original sin doesn't make any sense as a core belief. Maybe that's why you are not supposed to ask questions of your faith.
There is no point to atheism all it is is the simple rejection of the existence of god because there is insufficient evidence that there is such a being. Don't tell me you are fallking in to then mistake of thinking atheism is just a variation on religion with it's own system of core beliefs etc etc.
So what is the point of theism in your view?
can anyone tell me why I don't notice my typing errors until I go back in and look at a post the next day? I really can spell you know.
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497259 wrote: Which is one of the reasons original sin doesn't make any sense as a core belief. Maybe that's why you are not supposed to ask questions of your faith.
There is no point to atheism all it is is the simple rejection of the existence of god because there is insufficient evidence that there is such a being. Don't tell me you are fallking in to then mistake of thinking atheism is just a variation on religion with it's own system of core beliefs etc etc.
So what is the point of theism in your view?
can anyone tell me why I don't notice my typing errors until I go back in and look at a post the next day? I really can spell you know.
I would disagree with that. You are describing a passive rejection "because there is insufficient evidence" and that is more agnosticism - atheism is an active rejection of the whole concept of God and the possibility of His existence.
More "I have evidence that He does not exist" than "there is insufficient evidence to prove that He does".
There is no point to atheism all it is is the simple rejection of the existence of god because there is insufficient evidence that there is such a being. Don't tell me you are fallking in to then mistake of thinking atheism is just a variation on religion with it's own system of core beliefs etc etc.
So what is the point of theism in your view?
can anyone tell me why I don't notice my typing errors until I go back in and look at a post the next day? I really can spell you know.
I would disagree with that. You are describing a passive rejection "because there is insufficient evidence" and that is more agnosticism - atheism is an active rejection of the whole concept of God and the possibility of His existence.
More "I have evidence that He does not exist" than "there is insufficient evidence to prove that He does".
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497259 wrote:
can anyone tell me why I don't notice my typing errors until I go back in and look at a post the next day? I really can spell you know.
Because you don't have your spelling checker switched on - I don't go anywhere without mine
can anyone tell me why I don't notice my typing errors until I go back in and look at a post the next day? I really can spell you know.
Because you don't have your spelling checker switched on - I don't go anywhere without mine
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497259 wrote:
So what is the point of theism in your view?
.
I am still forming that answer within my thoughts; I am getting to the area of thinking even further, " What is the point of it all?" Even one biblical writer said " All is vanity", its like he was saying everything is useless. He was in an expressive mood, he said everything is vexed; and the bible labels him as one of the wisest men to have lived. I kind of think he may have meant that human life is a fixed thing ; set like a trap.
But I am getting the feeling that it really does not matter; we can live our lives Theist or Atheist, or anythingelse, and still reach a destiny that is already predetermined. What we are living now is the birth pangs of consciousness. Our beginning of another existence far better than this one.
So what is the point of theism in your view?
.
I am still forming that answer within my thoughts; I am getting to the area of thinking even further, " What is the point of it all?" Even one biblical writer said " All is vanity", its like he was saying everything is useless. He was in an expressive mood, he said everything is vexed; and the bible labels him as one of the wisest men to have lived. I kind of think he may have meant that human life is a fixed thing ; set like a trap.
But I am getting the feeling that it really does not matter; we can live our lives Theist or Atheist, or anythingelse, and still reach a destiny that is already predetermined. What we are living now is the birth pangs of consciousness. Our beginning of another existence far better than this one.
The fear of this site being religious
I got a nagging feeling that human life is really like we are embryo's , all inside of a giant incubator,( the earth), and our life experience's are contained in a marvelous strange prescripted evolution , leading to our being born again into a lavish conscious existence that is simply beyond imagination and explaining. This is retarded to Atheist thinking, and perverted by Theist thinking; but I get the notion that human life was "Laid out onto a very real pattern of stages", which we all must go through and cannot avoid. I think the Theist thinking of a God is correct , but I part with them there. Well I do think the bible is one of the keys to life ;I think science is as well. ( or knowledge-science just means knowledge ,explanation and definitions. ) But religion has misused the bible and messed even it up.
Man can mess up anything it gets its hands on, even science. When mankind has shown its abuse of women, our most precious source, we will abuse anything. We kill our children, kill each other, and kill each others thoughts and beliefs.
But out of this mess , I think God is cooking an eternal meal that we will feast on forever; all of us. Using ,strangely using the mess itself to form and shape the very beginning of our consciousness. Why cook it like that , why use these hardcore ingredients , why the confusion and suffering and pain, I just don't know. But its something about it that is weirdly going to benefit us all; I don't see how , but I suspect it will.
I don't agree with the Atheist, I think life is here because of a marvelous intended designed purpose , and it will continue to live and evolve forever. We are only going through stages ; like being in a giant incubator,( the earth itself), and life experiences are our birth pains. I don't agree with the Theist , who seem bent on separating humanity into classes , giving a future to some, and insanely dooming others to their hells.
I think our destiny is a pre set done deal.
Look at this strange biblical suggestion in Revelations 22:11," He that is that is unjust, let him be unjust still, he which is filthy, let him be filthy still, he that is righteous, let him be righteous still, he who is holy , let him be holy still. "
That is highly unusual for the bible , to advise a person to remain filthy and unjust. I get the sense of," It just does not matter what we do"; not matter like we tend to think it does. Like religion thinks it does. They think we must exist in a type of religious survival of the fittest program. Like God is only taking the cream of the crop and burning the rest. I think they are SO wrong about that.
Religion is not going to take over this world , no need to fear that.
I don't think God is religious , or that he even likes religion. I don't think he likes Atheism either . I think all our ways and beliefs are absolutely meaningless to him. Isaiah 40:17 stunningly states that all the nations to him are counted as " Less than nothing" and meaningless.
Goodness, "Less than nothing"; wow!
Man can mess up anything it gets its hands on, even science. When mankind has shown its abuse of women, our most precious source, we will abuse anything. We kill our children, kill each other, and kill each others thoughts and beliefs.
But out of this mess , I think God is cooking an eternal meal that we will feast on forever; all of us. Using ,strangely using the mess itself to form and shape the very beginning of our consciousness. Why cook it like that , why use these hardcore ingredients , why the confusion and suffering and pain, I just don't know. But its something about it that is weirdly going to benefit us all; I don't see how , but I suspect it will.
I don't agree with the Atheist, I think life is here because of a marvelous intended designed purpose , and it will continue to live and evolve forever. We are only going through stages ; like being in a giant incubator,( the earth itself), and life experiences are our birth pains. I don't agree with the Theist , who seem bent on separating humanity into classes , giving a future to some, and insanely dooming others to their hells.
I think our destiny is a pre set done deal.
Look at this strange biblical suggestion in Revelations 22:11," He that is that is unjust, let him be unjust still, he which is filthy, let him be filthy still, he that is righteous, let him be righteous still, he who is holy , let him be holy still. "
That is highly unusual for the bible , to advise a person to remain filthy and unjust. I get the sense of," It just does not matter what we do"; not matter like we tend to think it does. Like religion thinks it does. They think we must exist in a type of religious survival of the fittest program. Like God is only taking the cream of the crop and burning the rest. I think they are SO wrong about that.
Religion is not going to take over this world , no need to fear that.
I don't think God is religious , or that he even likes religion. I don't think he likes Atheism either . I think all our ways and beliefs are absolutely meaningless to him. Isaiah 40:17 stunningly states that all the nations to him are counted as " Less than nothing" and meaningless.
Goodness, "Less than nothing"; wow!
The fear of this site being religious
Bryn Mawr;1497264 wrote: I would disagree with that. You are describing a passive rejection "because there is insufficient evidence" and that is more agnosticism - atheism is an active rejection of the whole concept of God and the possibility of His existence.
More "I have evidence that He does not exist" than "there is insufficient evidence to prove that He does".
Can't say i agree with you - it's a moot point. I don't have evidence he doesn't exist and with all due respect I doubt you do either you can't prove something doesn't exist it's up to thiose who believe to prove it does. You're shifting the burden of proof big mistake imo.
As to religion it is so obviously man made and those who espouse so lacking in knowledge and unwilling to think about why and what they believe and intolerant of dissent and freethinkiers it saddens me.
Because you don't have your spelling checker switched on - I don't go anywhere without mine
I use firefox how do you turn it on? so long as it's not that really annoying american version. Sod it I've had four beers this evening I'll do something abouit it tomorrow. Spanish beer who says nothing good comes from the eu!
More "I have evidence that He does not exist" than "there is insufficient evidence to prove that He does".
Can't say i agree with you - it's a moot point. I don't have evidence he doesn't exist and with all due respect I doubt you do either you can't prove something doesn't exist it's up to thiose who believe to prove it does. You're shifting the burden of proof big mistake imo.
As to religion it is so obviously man made and those who espouse so lacking in knowledge and unwilling to think about why and what they believe and intolerant of dissent and freethinkiers it saddens me.
Because you don't have your spelling checker switched on - I don't go anywhere without mine
I use firefox how do you turn it on? so long as it's not that really annoying american version. Sod it I've had four beers this evening I'll do something abouit it tomorrow. Spanish beer who says nothing good comes from the eu!
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497337 wrote: Can't say i agree with you - it's a moot point. I don't have evidence he doesn't exist and with all due respect I doubt you do either you can't prove something doesn't exist it's up to thiose who believe to prove it does. You're shifting the burden of proof big mistake imo.
As to religion it is so obviously man made and those who espouse so lacking in knowledge and unwilling to think about why and what they believe and intolerant of dissent and freethinkiers it saddens me.
I use firefox how do you turn it on? so long as it's not that really annoying american version. Sod it I've had four beers this evening I'll do something abouit it tomorrow. Spanish beer who says nothing good comes from the eu!
I have not the slightest shred of evidence that He does not exist - that's why I count myself as agnostic rather than atheist. My beef is not with God, should He exist, it's with the Church (whichever one you like to choose) which has suborned His teachings to their own purpose.
Tools > Add Ons (Shift Control A) > Plug Ins
or for the newer versions
Tools > Add Ons (Shift Control A) > Languages
to see if you have one loaded but not active. If not then
Tools > Add Ons (Shift Control A) > Get Add Ons
and search for "Spell Check EN-GB"
As to religion it is so obviously man made and those who espouse so lacking in knowledge and unwilling to think about why and what they believe and intolerant of dissent and freethinkiers it saddens me.
I use firefox how do you turn it on? so long as it's not that really annoying american version. Sod it I've had four beers this evening I'll do something abouit it tomorrow. Spanish beer who says nothing good comes from the eu!
I have not the slightest shred of evidence that He does not exist - that's why I count myself as agnostic rather than atheist. My beef is not with God, should He exist, it's with the Church (whichever one you like to choose) which has suborned His teachings to their own purpose.
Tools > Add Ons (Shift Control A) > Plug Ins
or for the newer versions
Tools > Add Ons (Shift Control A) > Languages
to see if you have one loaded but not active. If not then
Tools > Add Ons (Shift Control A) > Get Add Ons
and search for "Spell Check EN-GB"
The fear of this site being religious
Bryn Mawr;1497342 wrote: I have not the slightest shred of evidence that He does not exist - that's why I count myself as agnostic rather than atheist. My beef is not with God, should He exist, it's with the Church (whichever one you like to choose) which has suborned His teachings to their own purpose.
Tools > Add Ons (Shift Control A) > Plug Ins
or for the newer versions
Tools > Add Ons (Shift Control A) > Languages
to see if you have one loaded but not active. If not then
Tools > Add Ons (Shift Control A) > Get Add Ons
and search for "Spell Check EN-GB"
I have it set to check spelling but no add on for that function. thanks for the help. Tried to teach myself touch typing all that happened was i make typing mistakes at a faster pace. :-5
I have not the slightest shred of evidence that He does not exist - that's why I count myself as agnostic rather than atheist. My beef is not with God, should He exist, it's with the Church (whichever one you like to choose) which has suborned His teachings to their own purpose.
That's the thing you see they are not his teachings religion is man made in it's entirety you can trace the development and all the various interactions between peoples and how it was woven in to christian teachings and practice . Hell in the old testament is not eternal the one in the new testament owes more to greek and roman pagan tradition, limbo is another idea from roman paganism. All the rituals are adapted from pagan times. You can read the trancsripts form the various early christian church whn they were deciding what should and shouldn;t be in the bible and what was and wasn't correct doctrine how anyone can hold o the notion the bible in all it;s forms was divinely inspired and is the word of god to me beggars belief.
posted by mickiel
I don't agree with the Atheist, I think life is here because of a marvelous intended designed purpose , and it will continue to live and evolve forever. We are only going through stages ; like being in a giant incubator,( the earth itself), and life experiences are our birth pains. I don't agree with the Theist , who seem bent on separating humanity into classes , giving a future to some, and insanely dooming others to their hells.
I think our destiny is a pre set done deal.
I would find that idea very depressing. There is no point to life because it's not up to you you're the creation of a god who has already decided your destiny.
I don't think God is religious , or that he even likes religion. I don't think he likes Atheism either . I think all our ways and beliefs are absolutely meaningless to him. Isaiah 40:17 stunningly states that all the nations to him are counted as " Less than nothing" and meaningless.
You're not really thinking about god because he had decided it your destiny to think aboity god so it wasn't your decision but his.
But I am getting the feeling that it really does not matter; we can live our lives Theist or Atheist, or anythingelse, and still reach a destiny that is already predetermined. What we are living now is the birth pangs of consciousness. Our beginning of another existence far better than this one.
That is the sop that religion (in particular the christian one) gave to the masses. Your position and fat in life is in god's hands so don't bother resisting your rulers or object to your fate by trying to make trhings better mankind was out on earth to suffer and die so they can go to heaven. Bow to god and to those appointed by him to rule over you.
genesis 3
6 To the woman He said: "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you." 17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. 18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return." 20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
there are still plenty around that think it ias the destiny of women to be ruled by men in all things. Your biblical god is a viscious sadistic bastard, unless of course you are going to suggest that the bible is not the word of god after all. Believing the bible is the word of god causes so much misery in the world, incidentally I take it you know the old testamant is the basis of the Koran.
I don't think God is religious , or that he even likes religion. I don't think he likes Atheism either . I think all our ways and beliefs are absolutely meaningless to him. Isaiah 40:17 stunningly states that all the nations to him are counted as " Less than nothing" and meaningless.
Goodness, "Less than nothing"; wow!
If he doesn't care what is the poiint in worshipping him then?
Tools > Add Ons (Shift Control A) > Plug Ins
or for the newer versions
Tools > Add Ons (Shift Control A) > Languages
to see if you have one loaded but not active. If not then
Tools > Add Ons (Shift Control A) > Get Add Ons
and search for "Spell Check EN-GB"
I have it set to check spelling but no add on for that function. thanks for the help. Tried to teach myself touch typing all that happened was i make typing mistakes at a faster pace. :-5
I have not the slightest shred of evidence that He does not exist - that's why I count myself as agnostic rather than atheist. My beef is not with God, should He exist, it's with the Church (whichever one you like to choose) which has suborned His teachings to their own purpose.
That's the thing you see they are not his teachings religion is man made in it's entirety you can trace the development and all the various interactions between peoples and how it was woven in to christian teachings and practice . Hell in the old testament is not eternal the one in the new testament owes more to greek and roman pagan tradition, limbo is another idea from roman paganism. All the rituals are adapted from pagan times. You can read the trancsripts form the various early christian church whn they were deciding what should and shouldn;t be in the bible and what was and wasn't correct doctrine how anyone can hold o the notion the bible in all it;s forms was divinely inspired and is the word of god to me beggars belief.
posted by mickiel
I don't agree with the Atheist, I think life is here because of a marvelous intended designed purpose , and it will continue to live and evolve forever. We are only going through stages ; like being in a giant incubator,( the earth itself), and life experiences are our birth pains. I don't agree with the Theist , who seem bent on separating humanity into classes , giving a future to some, and insanely dooming others to their hells.
I think our destiny is a pre set done deal.
I would find that idea very depressing. There is no point to life because it's not up to you you're the creation of a god who has already decided your destiny.
I don't think God is religious , or that he even likes religion. I don't think he likes Atheism either . I think all our ways and beliefs are absolutely meaningless to him. Isaiah 40:17 stunningly states that all the nations to him are counted as " Less than nothing" and meaningless.
You're not really thinking about god because he had decided it your destiny to think aboity god so it wasn't your decision but his.
But I am getting the feeling that it really does not matter; we can live our lives Theist or Atheist, or anythingelse, and still reach a destiny that is already predetermined. What we are living now is the birth pangs of consciousness. Our beginning of another existence far better than this one.
That is the sop that religion (in particular the christian one) gave to the masses. Your position and fat in life is in god's hands so don't bother resisting your rulers or object to your fate by trying to make trhings better mankind was out on earth to suffer and die so they can go to heaven. Bow to god and to those appointed by him to rule over you.
genesis 3
6 To the woman He said: "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you." 17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. 18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return." 20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
there are still plenty around that think it ias the destiny of women to be ruled by men in all things. Your biblical god is a viscious sadistic bastard, unless of course you are going to suggest that the bible is not the word of god after all. Believing the bible is the word of god causes so much misery in the world, incidentally I take it you know the old testamant is the basis of the Koran.
I don't think God is religious , or that he even likes religion. I don't think he likes Atheism either . I think all our ways and beliefs are absolutely meaningless to him. Isaiah 40:17 stunningly states that all the nations to him are counted as " Less than nothing" and meaningless.
Goodness, "Less than nothing"; wow!
If he doesn't care what is the poiint in worshipping him then?
The fear of this site being religious
gmc wrote:
. Your biblical god is a viscious sadistic bastard, ?
I am curious ,whatever he is , what could you do about it? You or anyone?
. Your biblical god is a viscious sadistic bastard, ?
I am curious ,whatever he is , what could you do about it? You or anyone?
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497370 wrote: I am curious ,whatever he is , what could you do about it? You or anyone?
Simple enough - refuse to accept or acknowledge Him as your God.
Simple enough - refuse to accept or acknowledge Him as your God.
The fear of this site being religious
No matter what men do , God will be what he is; whatever God is , there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. Whatever men say or think about him, its just meaningless .
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497370 wrote: I am curious ,whatever he is , what could you do about it? You or anyone?
What is it about atheism that you can't get your head round? I don't believe he exists so your question is pointless.
You're the one that calaims to believe the bible is the word of god if you read the bible the god of the old testament is sadistic, malevolent and capricious why do you believe in him.
What is it about atheism that you can't get your head round? I don't believe he exists so your question is pointless.
You're the one that calaims to believe the bible is the word of god if you read the bible the god of the old testament is sadistic, malevolent and capricious why do you believe in him.
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497386 wrote: What is it about atheism that you can't get your head round? I don't believe he exists so your question is pointless.
You're the one that calaims to believe the bible is the word of god if you read the bible the god of the old testament is sadistic, malevolent and capricious why do you believe in him.
The point I am making to you is , it does not matter to God what you think of him; and it does not matter to me how many insulting names you call him.
I believe in a destiny greater than your mind can conceive ;I believe in God because I can consciously conceive him.
You're the one that calaims to believe the bible is the word of god if you read the bible the god of the old testament is sadistic, malevolent and capricious why do you believe in him.
The point I am making to you is , it does not matter to God what you think of him; and it does not matter to me how many insulting names you call him.
I believe in a destiny greater than your mind can conceive ;I believe in God because I can consciously conceive him.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497390 wrote: The point I am making to you is , it does not matter to God what you think of him; and it does not matter to me how many insulting names you call him.
I believe in a destiny greater than your mind can conceive ;I believe in God because I can consciously conceive him.
I can consciously conceive him as well the difference is I know I'm making him up and there is no god. Just because you can imagine a god it doesn't follow that there is one.
I believe in a destiny greater than your mind can conceive ;I believe in God because I can consciously conceive him.
I can consciously conceive him as well the difference is I know I'm making him up and there is no god. Just because you can imagine a god it doesn't follow that there is one.
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497400 wrote: I can consciously conceive him as well the difference is I know I'm making him up and there is no god. Just because you can imagine a god it doesn't follow that there is one.
I am content with my imaginations and unaffected by yours.
I am content with my imaginations and unaffected by yours.
The fear of this site being religious
I can imagine the mind of an Atheist here , holding a fear of this site being perceived as religious. It would be like loosing a marketing war. An image disappointment.
One child taking the candy from the other.
One child taking the candy from the other.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497422 wrote: I can imagine the mind of an Atheist here , holding a fear of this site being perceived as religious. It would be like loosing a marketing war. An image disappointment.
One child taking the candy from the other.
You'd also have to imagine atheists caring what people think. Anyone with half an intellect looking at thgis site would realise it's not a religious site in the sense that it's not run with the aim of promoting any religion but rather one where there is quite a lot of religious discussion then a period browsing they would realise most of the religious posts are by religious people talking to themselves completely ignoring any attempts at discussion by non-believers who nevertheless tolerate the religious posters.
You're the one that brought this matter of fear of this site being religious. Speaking for myelf it hadn't occurred to me that it would be perceived as being a religious site. Having spent a few seconds in amazed wonderment at the posibility I decided I didn't care.
One child taking the candy from the other.
You'd also have to imagine atheists caring what people think. Anyone with half an intellect looking at thgis site would realise it's not a religious site in the sense that it's not run with the aim of promoting any religion but rather one where there is quite a lot of religious discussion then a period browsing they would realise most of the religious posts are by religious people talking to themselves completely ignoring any attempts at discussion by non-believers who nevertheless tolerate the religious posters.
You're the one that brought this matter of fear of this site being religious. Speaking for myelf it hadn't occurred to me that it would be perceived as being a religious site. Having spent a few seconds in amazed wonderment at the posibility I decided I didn't care.
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497430 wrote: You'd also have to imagine atheists caring what people think. Anyone with half an intellect looking at thgis site would realise it's not a religious site in the sense that it's not run with the aim of promoting any religion but rather one where there is quite a lot of religious discussion then a period browsing they would realise most of the religious posts are by religious people talking to themselves completely ignoring any attempts at discussion by non-believers who nevertheless tolerate the religious posters.
You're the one that brought this matter of fear of this site being religious. Speaking for myelf it hadn't occurred to me that it would be perceived as being a religious site. Having spent a few seconds in amazed wonderment at the posibility I decided I didn't care.
Well I will not go as far as to imply an insult to the intellect of visitors ,but I agree they " Should realize " this is not a religious site , just a site where religion is among the top interest.
You're the one that brought this matter of fear of this site being religious. Speaking for myelf it hadn't occurred to me that it would be perceived as being a religious site. Having spent a few seconds in amazed wonderment at the posibility I decided I didn't care.
Well I will not go as far as to imply an insult to the intellect of visitors ,but I agree they " Should realize " this is not a religious site , just a site where religion is among the top interest.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497435 wrote: Well I will not go as far as to imply an insult to the intellect of visitors ,but I agree they " Should realize " this is not a religious site , just a site where religion is among the top interest.
So who was claiming it is a religious site then?
Why would religion and politics not be the two most popular topics?
So who was claiming it is a religious site then?
Why would religion and politics not be the two most popular topics?
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497447 wrote: So who was claiming it is a religious site then?
Why would religion and politics not be the two most popular topics?
You missed sex
If we've ever mistaken for anything it's a horticultural site.
Why would religion and politics not be the two most popular topics?
You missed sex
If we've ever mistaken for anything it's a horticultural site.
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;149744 wrote:
Why would religion and politics not be the two most popular topics?
There you go , its normal; its common; its logical; its supposed to be that way.
Why would religion and politics not be the two most popular topics?
There you go , its normal; its common; its logical; its supposed to be that way.
The fear of this site being religious
Politics and religion were historically a number. In Rome Caesar was a god. This goes for many places around the world.
The fear of this site being religious
Bryn Mawr;1497455 wrote: You missed sex
If we've ever mistaken for anything it's a horticultural site.
Must be all that bull**** getting spread around.
posted by ted
Politics and religion were historically a number. In Rome Caesar was a god. This goes for many places around the world.
That does not make any sense. Elucidate please.
If we've ever mistaken for anything it's a horticultural site.
Must be all that bull**** getting spread around.
posted by ted
Politics and religion were historically a number. In Rome Caesar was a god. This goes for many places around the world.
That does not make any sense. Elucidate please.
The fear of this site being religious
Religion would make the top ten things to discuss in most places.
Atheism would not.
Atheism would not.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497520 wrote: Religion would make the top ten things to discuss in most places.
Atheism would not.
So why do you think this site is "afraid" of being religious?
It is one of the top two or three subjects discussed and we have a wide variety of opinions represented in those discussions.
Atheism would not.
So why do you think this site is "afraid" of being religious?
It is one of the top two or three subjects discussed and we have a wide variety of opinions represented in those discussions.
The fear of this site being religious
Bryn Mawr;1497523 wrote: So why do you think this site is "afraid" of being religious?
It is one of the top two or three subjects discussed and we have a wide variety of opinions represented in those discussions.
Understand that I did not say the site fears religion, as if I included everyone, The thread is about the fear of this site being perceived as being religious, by some of its popular members. And I would never post those names. I have seen that in some here , and in some, almost a hatred for religious threads that have become popular or elongated , like Pahu's thread. The fact remains, as you have stated , religion is a top topic here and on most sites. Its not going to go away. You can't snap your fingers , and poof its gone!
Its like seeing a group of people with sledge hammers coming to tear a wall down , spiritually I saw a few here wanting to tear down religion ; I saw the hammers in their conscious desires, as they expressed themselves ; so I went down to the religious wall, and posted a warning sign; or I started this thread.
It is one of the top two or three subjects discussed and we have a wide variety of opinions represented in those discussions.
Understand that I did not say the site fears religion, as if I included everyone, The thread is about the fear of this site being perceived as being religious, by some of its popular members. And I would never post those names. I have seen that in some here , and in some, almost a hatred for religious threads that have become popular or elongated , like Pahu's thread. The fact remains, as you have stated , religion is a top topic here and on most sites. Its not going to go away. You can't snap your fingers , and poof its gone!
Its like seeing a group of people with sledge hammers coming to tear a wall down , spiritually I saw a few here wanting to tear down religion ; I saw the hammers in their conscious desires, as they expressed themselves ; so I went down to the religious wall, and posted a warning sign; or I started this thread.
The fear of this site being religious
I can agree with Mickiel. I not to long ago read the book "Christianity After Religion by Dianna Butler-Bass. Good book.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497527 wrote: and in some, almost a hatred for religious threads that have become popular or elongated , like Pahu's thread. .
Personally, my problem with Pahu, other than the fact that he bumps his blasted thread to the top every single blasted day, is that he blatantly ignores science. You can be both religious and scientific, but Pahu, twists and warps science into a pseudo-science that fits his views and puts that forth as true science.
I can't stand deliberate ignorance, especially from those who are smart enough to know better.
Personally, my problem with Pahu, other than the fact that he bumps his blasted thread to the top every single blasted day, is that he blatantly ignores science. You can be both religious and scientific, but Pahu, twists and warps science into a pseudo-science that fits his views and puts that forth as true science.
I can't stand deliberate ignorance, especially from those who are smart enough to know better.
The fear of this site being religious
Saint_;1497558 wrote: Personally, my problem with Pahu, other than the fact that he bumps his blasted thread to the top every single blasted day, is that he blatantly ignores science. You can be both religious and scientific, but Pahu, twists and warps science into a pseudo-science that fits his views and puts that forth as true science.
I can't stand deliberate ignorance, especially from those who are smart enough to know better.
Well I don't know if he does those things or not, I mentioned the longevity of his thread. I use science at times ,but I don't twist it to suit my terms. But I know it can be done ,I mean we can twist anything ; I just see no need to. Science " Should be neutral" ,but both sides try to make science seem prejudiced towards others outside of their group , and favoritism towards their cause. Really science is not Theist or Atheist , but both dynamics are selfish in really defining science in its raw terms. Basically and simply, science is "An area of knowledge" , an area subject to study and examination ; what has Atheism or Theism to do with that? Really nothing. But we try to force science into our space. Instead of sharing it.
I can't stand deliberate ignorance, especially from those who are smart enough to know better.
Well I don't know if he does those things or not, I mentioned the longevity of his thread. I use science at times ,but I don't twist it to suit my terms. But I know it can be done ,I mean we can twist anything ; I just see no need to. Science " Should be neutral" ,but both sides try to make science seem prejudiced towards others outside of their group , and favoritism towards their cause. Really science is not Theist or Atheist , but both dynamics are selfish in really defining science in its raw terms. Basically and simply, science is "An area of knowledge" , an area subject to study and examination ; what has Atheism or Theism to do with that? Really nothing. But we try to force science into our space. Instead of sharing it.
The fear of this site being religious
According to the Bible, Jesus died to cleanse Mankind of its sins, yet the Church still clings to the notion of Original Sin. Seems a bit of a pointless death to me.
The fear of this site being religious
Saint_;1497558 wrote: Personally, my problem with Pahu, other than the fact that he bumps his blasted thread to the top every single blasted day, is that he blatantly ignores science. You can be both religious and scientific, but Pahu, twists and warps science into a pseudo-science that fits his views and puts that forth as true science.
I can't stand deliberate ignorance, especially from those who are smart enough to know better.
My problem with him?
In his time here he has started six threads. He has only ever posted in those six threads - he has no interest in the Garden apart from pushing his own agenda.
I can't stand deliberate ignorance, especially from those who are smart enough to know better.
My problem with him?
In his time here he has started six threads. He has only ever posted in those six threads - he has no interest in the Garden apart from pushing his own agenda.
The fear of this site being religious
FourPart;1497584 wrote: According to the Bible, Jesus died to cleanse Mankind of its sins, yet the Church still clings to the notion of Original Sin. Seems a bit of a pointless death to me.
Do you sleep in church? Without original sin there would have been no need for Jesus to have die for us. You can't be a christian without accepting that you were born a sinner.
Your particular religious affinity, The three in one or unitarian?
You can't talk about theism without atheism coming in to it. The fundamental premise of theism is that there is a god, if you can conceive of god you must be able to conceive that there isn't one.
Pahu talks to himself, as does mickiel to a large extent.
posted by mickiel
Its like seeing a group of people with sledge hammers coming to tear a wall down , spiritually I saw a few here wanting to tear down religion ; I saw the hammers in their conscious desires, as they expressed themselves ; so I went down to the religious wall, and posted a warning sign; or I started this thread.
Why do you confuse an interest in religion and the meaning of existence as being anti religious?
Do you sleep in church? Without original sin there would have been no need for Jesus to have die for us. You can't be a christian without accepting that you were born a sinner.
Your particular religious affinity, The three in one or unitarian?
You can't talk about theism without atheism coming in to it. The fundamental premise of theism is that there is a god, if you can conceive of god you must be able to conceive that there isn't one.
Pahu talks to himself, as does mickiel to a large extent.
posted by mickiel
Its like seeing a group of people with sledge hammers coming to tear a wall down , spiritually I saw a few here wanting to tear down religion ; I saw the hammers in their conscious desires, as they expressed themselves ; so I went down to the religious wall, and posted a warning sign; or I started this thread.
Why do you confuse an interest in religion and the meaning of existence as being anti religious?
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497589 wrote: Do you sleep in church? Without original sin there would have been no need for Jesus to have die for us. You can't be a christian without accepting that you were born a sinner.
Your particular religious affinity, The three in one or unitarian?
You can't talk about theism without atheism coming in to it. The fundamental premise of theism is that there is a god, if you can conceive of god you must be able to conceive that there isn't one.
Pahu talks to himself, as does mickiel to a large extent.
posted by mickiel
Why do you confuse an interest in religion and the meaning of existence as being anti religious?
Granted, all of the generations from Adam until the crucifixion were, according to the Bible, tainted with the original sin but if "Jesus died for our sins" and "our sins" includes the original sin then do subsequent generations also carry that taint?
Your particular religious affinity, The three in one or unitarian?
You can't talk about theism without atheism coming in to it. The fundamental premise of theism is that there is a god, if you can conceive of god you must be able to conceive that there isn't one.
Pahu talks to himself, as does mickiel to a large extent.
posted by mickiel
Why do you confuse an interest in religion and the meaning of existence as being anti religious?
Granted, all of the generations from Adam until the crucifixion were, according to the Bible, tainted with the original sin but if "Jesus died for our sins" and "our sins" includes the original sin then do subsequent generations also carry that taint?