Bryn Mawr;1497592 wrote: Granted, all of the generations from Adam until the crucifixion were, according to the Bible, tainted with the original sin but if "Jesus died for our sins" and "our sins" includes the original sin then do subsequent generations also carry that taint?
Catch 22.
The fear of this site being religious
-
AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6632
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
The fear of this site being religious
Bryn Mawr;1497587 wrote: My problem with him?
In his time here he has started six threads. He has only ever posted in those six threads - he has no interest in the Garden apart from pushing his own agenda.
Yup. I agree. A forum is, of course, a place to posit your views. But if you are so inflexible as to ignore discussion..what's the point? It's like muttering to yourself in a corner.
In his time here he has started six threads. He has only ever posted in those six threads - he has no interest in the Garden apart from pushing his own agenda.
Yup. I agree. A forum is, of course, a place to posit your views. But if you are so inflexible as to ignore discussion..what's the point? It's like muttering to yourself in a corner.
The fear of this site being religious
Saint_;1497602 wrote: Yup. I agree. A forum is, of course, a place to posit your views. But if you are so inflexible as to ignore discussion..what's the point? It's like muttering to yourself in a corner.
Why not? Macooo does it all the time.
Why not? Macooo does it all the time.
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497589 wrote:
Pahu talks to himself, as does mickiel to a large extent.
Quote;
I disagree with that.I answer all questions ,I discuss all inquiries , I never ignore anyone.
Why do you confuse an interest in religion and the meaning of existence as being anti religious?
I do no such thing. Give me an example of doing what you accuse.
Pahu talks to himself, as does mickiel to a large extent.
Quote;
I disagree with that.I answer all questions ,I discuss all inquiries , I never ignore anyone.
Why do you confuse an interest in religion and the meaning of existence as being anti religious?
I do no such thing. Give me an example of doing what you accuse.
The fear of this site being religious
Bryn Mawr;1497592 wrote: Granted, all of the generations from Adam until the crucifixion were, according to the Bible, tainted with the original sin but if "Jesus died for our sins" and "our sins" includes the original sin then do subsequent generations also carry that taint?
Seriously you need to ask? I'm an atheist remember I don't believe this crap.
But yes they do passed down to us from adam thanks to him was are mortal that why you need a redemmer.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Original Sin
Do you get redemotion through the priest and the teaching of the church or find find your own personal path to redemption.
posted by mickiel
I disagree with that.I answer all questions ,I discuss all inquiries , I never ignore anyone.
I do no such thing. Give me an example of doing what you accuse.
Posted by me
If he doesn't care what is the poiint in worshipping him then?
posted by mickiel
I am curious ,whatever he is , what could you do about it? You or anyone?
posted by me
What is it about atheism that you can't get your head round? I don't believe he exists so your question is pointless.
You're the one that calaims to believe the bible is the word of god if you read the bible the god of the old testament is sadistic, malevolent and capricious why do you believe in him.
posted by mickiel
The point I am making to you is , it does not matter to God what you think of him; and it does not matter to me how many insulting names you call him.
I believe in a destiny greater than your mind can conceive ;I believe in God because I can consciously conceive him.
posted by me
I can consciously conceive him as well the difference is I know I'm making him up and there is no god. Just because you can imagine a god it doesn't follow that there is one.
I am content with my imaginations and unaffected by yours.
OK I withdraw the comment and apologise I'm being uncharitable. The thing is though just because you can conceive of a god and choose to believe in one doesn''t make him real to anyone else except yourself. Also you claim the bible is revelation from god and youir proof of his existence and all thewriters but ignore all the contradictions within it and like most bible fundamentalists don;t want to face up to the reality of the god portrayed in the bible choosing to ignore all the bits that are unpleasant.
If you believe in the holy trinity (Father son and holy ghost) the you have to accept that god created his son and them sacrificed him to make up for the sins of adam who he created as he did the serpent who gave eve the apple knowing the decisions they were all going to make (no free will I think you said) who he then punished by making morta,l and chucking out of the garden giving a particularly unpleasant punishment to eve (eve's curse and all that). If you believe that to be true (and you said you did cos it's in the bible ) then good luck to you.
Well again, I think it is meaningless for A theist explain to an Atheist, why they believe the bible to be the word God. If there is a God , he can only contact humans person to person, or through of written form; God actually did a bit of both. From as far as I can count, God has only visited earth only twice. God only personally wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone that got destroyed. All other biblical book were written by men and women. They wrote what they were inspired to write.
I believe in " Inspiration to write"; its a real motivating spirit, not limited to just religion. All writers know what I am talking about; something comes over you, you are full of ideas and motivation, and you can just go for hours. And you can be very profound in what you write; or what your consciousness has seen. Writers don't need a God to experience this, but when God does actually get involved in the motivation to write, when it is he who is motivating the human to write, its incredible, and that is how we got the bible.
The more I studied the bible the less I could believe it. That's why the catholic church opposed the light of reason held back the light of reason and opposed letting the people read the bibnle for themselves for hundreds of years they knew that once people could read the bible for themselves the game was up. The mote you study the history of religgion the more you realsie it was just a tool used to manipulate the masses
Imagining a god in to existence makes more sense in a way but just because you can conceive a thing does not make it real - it might be to you but not to anyone else.
Seriously you need to ask? I'm an atheist remember I don't believe this crap.
But yes they do passed down to us from adam thanks to him was are mortal that why you need a redemmer.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Original Sin
Do you get redemotion through the priest and the teaching of the church or find find your own personal path to redemption.
posted by mickiel
I disagree with that.I answer all questions ,I discuss all inquiries , I never ignore anyone.
I do no such thing. Give me an example of doing what you accuse.
Posted by me
If he doesn't care what is the poiint in worshipping him then?
posted by mickiel
I am curious ,whatever he is , what could you do about it? You or anyone?
posted by me
What is it about atheism that you can't get your head round? I don't believe he exists so your question is pointless.
You're the one that calaims to believe the bible is the word of god if you read the bible the god of the old testament is sadistic, malevolent and capricious why do you believe in him.
posted by mickiel
The point I am making to you is , it does not matter to God what you think of him; and it does not matter to me how many insulting names you call him.
I believe in a destiny greater than your mind can conceive ;I believe in God because I can consciously conceive him.
posted by me
I can consciously conceive him as well the difference is I know I'm making him up and there is no god. Just because you can imagine a god it doesn't follow that there is one.
I am content with my imaginations and unaffected by yours.
OK I withdraw the comment and apologise I'm being uncharitable. The thing is though just because you can conceive of a god and choose to believe in one doesn''t make him real to anyone else except yourself. Also you claim the bible is revelation from god and youir proof of his existence and all thewriters but ignore all the contradictions within it and like most bible fundamentalists don;t want to face up to the reality of the god portrayed in the bible choosing to ignore all the bits that are unpleasant.
If you believe in the holy trinity (Father son and holy ghost) the you have to accept that god created his son and them sacrificed him to make up for the sins of adam who he created as he did the serpent who gave eve the apple knowing the decisions they were all going to make (no free will I think you said) who he then punished by making morta,l and chucking out of the garden giving a particularly unpleasant punishment to eve (eve's curse and all that). If you believe that to be true (and you said you did cos it's in the bible ) then good luck to you.
Well again, I think it is meaningless for A theist explain to an Atheist, why they believe the bible to be the word God. If there is a God , he can only contact humans person to person, or through of written form; God actually did a bit of both. From as far as I can count, God has only visited earth only twice. God only personally wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets of stone that got destroyed. All other biblical book were written by men and women. They wrote what they were inspired to write.
I believe in " Inspiration to write"; its a real motivating spirit, not limited to just religion. All writers know what I am talking about; something comes over you, you are full of ideas and motivation, and you can just go for hours. And you can be very profound in what you write; or what your consciousness has seen. Writers don't need a God to experience this, but when God does actually get involved in the motivation to write, when it is he who is motivating the human to write, its incredible, and that is how we got the bible.
The more I studied the bible the less I could believe it. That's why the catholic church opposed the light of reason held back the light of reason and opposed letting the people read the bibnle for themselves for hundreds of years they knew that once people could read the bible for themselves the game was up. The mote you study the history of religgion the more you realsie it was just a tool used to manipulate the masses
Imagining a god in to existence makes more sense in a way but just because you can conceive a thing does not make it real - it might be to you but not to anyone else.
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497638 wrote: Seriously you need to ask? I'm an atheist remember I don't believe this crap.
But yes they do passed down to us from adam thanks to him was are mortal that why you need a redemmer.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Original Sin
Do you get redemption through the priest and the teaching of the church or find find your own personal path to redemption.
In my case? I was never a Catholic so never listened to a priest. The Church I grew up in taught that no one came between you and God - the preacher was there to advise and guide you, not to instruct you and as I am now an agnostic the answer must be that I find my own personal path to redemption and I define what redemption is necessary
But yes they do passed down to us from adam thanks to him was are mortal that why you need a redemmer.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Original Sin
Do you get redemption through the priest and the teaching of the church or find find your own personal path to redemption.
In my case? I was never a Catholic so never listened to a priest. The Church I grew up in taught that no one came between you and God - the preacher was there to advise and guide you, not to instruct you and as I am now an agnostic the answer must be that I find my own personal path to redemption and I define what redemption is necessary
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497638 wrote: Seriously you need to ask? I'm an atheist remember I don't believe this crap.
But yes they do passed down to us from adam thanks to him was are mortal that why you need a redemmer.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Original Sin
Do you get redemotion through the priest and the teaching of the church or find find your own personal path to redemption.
posted by mickiel
Posted by me
posted by mickiel
posted by me
posted by mickiel
posted by me
OK I withdraw the comment and apologise I'm being uncharitable. The thing is though just because you can conceive of a god and choose to believe in one doesn''t make him real to anyone else except yourself. Also you claim the bible is revelation from god and youir proof of his existence and all thewriters but ignore all the contradictions within it and like most bible fundamentalists don;t want to face up to the reality of the god portrayed in the bible choosing to ignore all the bits that are unpleasant.
If you believe in the holy trinity (Father son and holy ghost) the you have to accept that god created his son and them sacrificed him to make up for the sins of adam who he created as he did the serpent who gave eve the apple knowing the decisions they were all going to make (no free will I think you said) who he then punished by making morta,l and chucking out of the garden giving a particularly unpleasant punishment to eve (eve's curse and all that). If you believe that to be true (and you said you did cos it's in the bible ) then good luck to you.
The more I studied the bible the less I could believe it. That's why the catholic church opposed the light of reason held back the light of reason and opposed letting the people read the bibnle for themselves for hundreds of years they knew that once people could read the bible for themselves the game was up. The mote you study the history of religgion the more you realsie it was just a tool used to manipulate the masses
Imagining a god in to existence makes more sense in a way but just because you can conceive a thing does not make it real - it might be to you but not to anyone else.
I do not believe in some Trinity; and you have never seen me write that I did. The term " Trinity" is not even in the bible , its a Christian deception. You are too influenced by religion and Christianity to understand me and my views. I am glad you withdrew your comment; I wish you would stop doing that manipulative stuff that you do.
But yes they do passed down to us from adam thanks to him was are mortal that why you need a redemmer.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Original Sin
Do you get redemotion through the priest and the teaching of the church or find find your own personal path to redemption.
posted by mickiel
Posted by me
posted by mickiel
posted by me
posted by mickiel
posted by me
OK I withdraw the comment and apologise I'm being uncharitable. The thing is though just because you can conceive of a god and choose to believe in one doesn''t make him real to anyone else except yourself. Also you claim the bible is revelation from god and youir proof of his existence and all thewriters but ignore all the contradictions within it and like most bible fundamentalists don;t want to face up to the reality of the god portrayed in the bible choosing to ignore all the bits that are unpleasant.
If you believe in the holy trinity (Father son and holy ghost) the you have to accept that god created his son and them sacrificed him to make up for the sins of adam who he created as he did the serpent who gave eve the apple knowing the decisions they were all going to make (no free will I think you said) who he then punished by making morta,l and chucking out of the garden giving a particularly unpleasant punishment to eve (eve's curse and all that). If you believe that to be true (and you said you did cos it's in the bible ) then good luck to you.
The more I studied the bible the less I could believe it. That's why the catholic church opposed the light of reason held back the light of reason and opposed letting the people read the bibnle for themselves for hundreds of years they knew that once people could read the bible for themselves the game was up. The mote you study the history of religgion the more you realsie it was just a tool used to manipulate the masses
Imagining a god in to existence makes more sense in a way but just because you can conceive a thing does not make it real - it might be to you but not to anyone else.
I do not believe in some Trinity; and you have never seen me write that I did. The term " Trinity" is not even in the bible , its a Christian deception. You are too influenced by religion and Christianity to understand me and my views. I am glad you withdrew your comment; I wish you would stop doing that manipulative stuff that you do.
The fear of this site being religious
Bryn Mawr;1497649 wrote: In my case? I was never a Catholic so never listened to a priest. The Church I grew up in taught that no one came between you and God - the preacher was there to advise and guide you, not to instruct you and as I am now an agnostic the answer must be that I find my own personal path to redemption and I define what redemption is necessary
The conflict between catholic and protestant in a nutsheel. You are a heretic and a freethinker no doubt you going to hell.
Posted by mickiel
I do not believe in some Trinity; and you have never seen me write that I did. The term " Trinity" is not even in the bible , its a Christian deception. You are too influenced by religion and Christianity to understand me and my views. I am glad you withdrew your comment; I wish you would stop doing that manipulative stuff that you do.
I thought you believed the bible was the word of god, proof of his existence, and that the writers were inspired by him. You seem to cherry pick or is it you think some were deluded.
Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.
Matthew 28:18 - 28:20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Father son and holy ghost known as the holy trinity. "Christian" is not in the bible either. is that also a christian deception was JC not really the on of god? Are you suggesting the new testament ws all made up and not inspired by god?
The conflict between catholic and protestant in a nutsheel. You are a heretic and a freethinker no doubt you going to hell.
Posted by mickiel
I do not believe in some Trinity; and you have never seen me write that I did. The term " Trinity" is not even in the bible , its a Christian deception. You are too influenced by religion and Christianity to understand me and my views. I am glad you withdrew your comment; I wish you would stop doing that manipulative stuff that you do.
I thought you believed the bible was the word of god, proof of his existence, and that the writers were inspired by him. You seem to cherry pick or is it you think some were deluded.
Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.
Matthew 28:18 - 28:20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Father son and holy ghost known as the holy trinity. "Christian" is not in the bible either. is that also a christian deception was JC not really the on of god? Are you suggesting the new testament ws all made up and not inspired by god?
The fear of this site being religious
I do not believe in the Trinity and I am not Christian. I am not Mormon either , but I like this article about there being one God;
28 Biblical Passages Which Explicitly Teach There is Only One God | Mormons In Transition
28 Biblical Passages Which Explicitly Teach There is Only One God | Mormons In Transition
The fear of this site being religious
What are the signs of the fear of a site being perceived as religious?
1. When you want others posting in the religion section to leave.
2. When you think others are listening to someone more than they listen to you.
3. When you get out debated.
4. When your patience runs out and your anger runs in more.
5. When the religious section keeps getting top billing.
1. When you want others posting in the religion section to leave.
2. When you think others are listening to someone more than they listen to you.
3. When you get out debated.
4. When your patience runs out and your anger runs in more.
5. When the religious section keeps getting top billing.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497711 wrote: What are the signs of the fear of a site being perceived as religious?
1. When you want others posting in the religion section to leave.
2. When you think others are listening to someone more than they listen to you.
3. When you get out debated.
4. When your patience runs out and your anger runs in more.
5. When the religious section keeps getting top billing.
That is not Fear. That is Contempt. I do not Fear Far Right Politics, such as BNP, Britain First, EDL, etc. I have Contempt for them. Fear & Contempt are 2 entirely different things.
1. When has it ever been said about others posting in the Religious section to leave?
2. Whan has anyone said anything about anyone listening more to one person than another - listening to one's self, yes. That's hardly the same thing.
3. Out debated? No chance.
4. Patience running out? Not really. Anger? Hardly. Only one person has come close to that degree, and that is Macooo - he's the only one on my Blocked list. Even that much annoys me, as he still keeps popping up on my New Posts list, even though his posts are (thankfully) hidden.
5. The Religious Section only gets "Top Billing" because you keep posting your constant drivel in it, driving more interesting & rational things out of the way. If it were possible to block the section from my "New Posts", believe you me, I would.
I would find a fly extremely irritating, especially when it won't go away. When it keeps buzzing right in front of my face, but it is not something I would fear. You & your like are that fly.
1. When you want others posting in the religion section to leave.
2. When you think others are listening to someone more than they listen to you.
3. When you get out debated.
4. When your patience runs out and your anger runs in more.
5. When the religious section keeps getting top billing.
That is not Fear. That is Contempt. I do not Fear Far Right Politics, such as BNP, Britain First, EDL, etc. I have Contempt for them. Fear & Contempt are 2 entirely different things.
1. When has it ever been said about others posting in the Religious section to leave?
2. Whan has anyone said anything about anyone listening more to one person than another - listening to one's self, yes. That's hardly the same thing.
3. Out debated? No chance.
4. Patience running out? Not really. Anger? Hardly. Only one person has come close to that degree, and that is Macooo - he's the only one on my Blocked list. Even that much annoys me, as he still keeps popping up on my New Posts list, even though his posts are (thankfully) hidden.
5. The Religious Section only gets "Top Billing" because you keep posting your constant drivel in it, driving more interesting & rational things out of the way. If it were possible to block the section from my "New Posts", believe you me, I would.
I would find a fly extremely irritating, especially when it won't go away. When it keeps buzzing right in front of my face, but it is not something I would fear. You & your like are that fly.
The fear of this site being religious
FourPart;1497766 wrote:
I would find a fly extremely irritating, especially when it won't go away. When it keeps buzzing right in front of my face, but it is not something I would fear. You & your like are that fly.
Welcome to the planet of the flies.
I would find a fly extremely irritating, especially when it won't go away. When it keeps buzzing right in front of my face, but it is not something I would fear. You & your like are that fly.
Welcome to the planet of the flies.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497780 wrote: Welcome to the planet of the flies.
Come into my parlour.
Come into my parlour.
The fear of this site being religious
Religion can get into people's head , swelling the cranium with all kinds of emotions , and some Atheist experience this as well. Religion has introduced all kinds of innovations into this world. You see how technology has influenced this world , religion has done it far greater! Welcome to the planet of religion. To the organized influence. It has a history that can be placed into four stages of education; Episcopal , Monastic , Scholastic and Seminarian. Theology that started in the Patristic age , or the third to fifth centuries ; and listen, all the time since those ages, it has covered the world with constant education ; schoolmasters whose techniques became popular theologians and pastors of monster size churches.
But the church was deeply influenced by pagan philosophy , it flowed in such mass into Christianity , and its theological education has never recovered from its influence ; its in the bloodstream of religion itself . Most of the things that Atheist and Agnostics see in religion that they don't like , I would say comes from the pagan influence and deadly mix. Bear in mind that contemporary theology is a blending of Christian thought and pagan philosophy.
It has been a thing to fear.
But the church was deeply influenced by pagan philosophy , it flowed in such mass into Christianity , and its theological education has never recovered from its influence ; its in the bloodstream of religion itself . Most of the things that Atheist and Agnostics see in religion that they don't like , I would say comes from the pagan influence and deadly mix. Bear in mind that contemporary theology is a blending of Christian thought and pagan philosophy.
It has been a thing to fear.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497705 wrote: I do not believe in the Trinity and I am not Christian. I am not Mormon either , but I like this article about there being one God;
28 Biblical Passages Which Explicitly Teach There is Only One God | Mormons In Transition
You rather miss the point about the holy trinity don't you. the trinity is the word used to describe what is in the bible God the Son, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit three in one it's all the one god not three gods. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God.
While it mat be something christians argue over whether you are a christian or not is irrelevant to the point I am trying to make. You claim to believe in god and the bible is your proof of his existence the writers having been insopired by god. Are you now saying that bits of the bible are wrong in which casec does that mean your god is actually man made and not real?
3. When you get out debated.
Never happens worst case scenario is people agree to disagree amicably. Besides it's not about winning a debate anyway. Most theists core argument is I believe it so there. They don't want to debate because they always lose which is why and fall back on their core argument or you can't prove god doesn't exist therefore it's possible he does so I must be right. Also most I find have not actually read the very book they claim to be their authority as youi have just clearly demonstrated.
first denial
I do not believe in some Trinity; and you have never seen me write that I did. The term " Trinity" is not even in the bible , its a Christian deception. You are too influenced by religion and Christianity to understand me and my views. I am glad you withdrew your comment; I wish you would stop doing that manipulative stuff that you do.
Then acceptance followed by this bit is righter than that bit.
I do not believe in the Trinity and I am not Christian. I am not Mormon either , but I like this article about there being one God;
28 Biblical Passages Which Explicitly Teach There is Only One God | Mormons In Transition
I wish you would stop doing that manipulative stuff that you do
What you mean picking up what ypou say and then pointing out you are contradicting yourself?
The Religious Section only gets "Top Billing" because you keep posting your constant drivel in it, driving more interesting & rational things out of the way. If it were possible to block the section from my "New Posts", believe you me, I would.
I drivel therefore I am and I exist so god must have made me. .
28 Biblical Passages Which Explicitly Teach There is Only One God | Mormons In Transition
You rather miss the point about the holy trinity don't you. the trinity is the word used to describe what is in the bible God the Son, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit three in one it's all the one god not three gods. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God.
While it mat be something christians argue over whether you are a christian or not is irrelevant to the point I am trying to make. You claim to believe in god and the bible is your proof of his existence the writers having been insopired by god. Are you now saying that bits of the bible are wrong in which casec does that mean your god is actually man made and not real?
3. When you get out debated.
Never happens worst case scenario is people agree to disagree amicably. Besides it's not about winning a debate anyway. Most theists core argument is I believe it so there. They don't want to debate because they always lose which is why and fall back on their core argument or you can't prove god doesn't exist therefore it's possible he does so I must be right. Also most I find have not actually read the very book they claim to be their authority as youi have just clearly demonstrated.
first denial
I do not believe in some Trinity; and you have never seen me write that I did. The term " Trinity" is not even in the bible , its a Christian deception. You are too influenced by religion and Christianity to understand me and my views. I am glad you withdrew your comment; I wish you would stop doing that manipulative stuff that you do.
Then acceptance followed by this bit is righter than that bit.
I do not believe in the Trinity and I am not Christian. I am not Mormon either , but I like this article about there being one God;
28 Biblical Passages Which Explicitly Teach There is Only One God | Mormons In Transition
I wish you would stop doing that manipulative stuff that you do
What you mean picking up what ypou say and then pointing out you are contradicting yourself?
The Religious Section only gets "Top Billing" because you keep posting your constant drivel in it, driving more interesting & rational things out of the way. If it were possible to block the section from my "New Posts", believe you me, I would.
I drivel therefore I am and I exist so god must have made me. .
The fear of this site being religious
Religion has done more than say "Boo" to the world , it has scared millions of people.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497818 wrote: Religion has done more than say "Boo" to the world , it has scared millions of people.
Not religion per se rather the idiots who follow them theist just like to mkid themselves they are more rational but they still believe in an invisible friend.
Not religion per se rather the idiots who follow them theist just like to mkid themselves they are more rational but they still believe in an invisible friend.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497818 wrote: Religion has done more than say "Boo" to the world , it has scared millions of people.
Religion (or, rather, "the Church") has done more than scare millions of people, it has killed millions of people.
Religion (or, rather, "the Church") has done more than scare millions of people, it has killed millions of people.
The fear of this site being religious
"Project Fear" all over again. We have a modern equivalent. They're called "Protection Rackets".
The fear of this site being religious
Bryn Mawr;1497837 wrote: Religion (or, rather, "the Church") has done more than scare millions of people, it has killed millions of people.
They have killed certain biblical principles as well. Atheist have killed the bible as a whole; there are many killers among us ; and many ways to kill. All killing is not premeditated , I don't think Theist and Atheist planned on their killing , but we still live in the killing fields.
They have killed certain biblical principles as well. Atheist have killed the bible as a whole; there are many killers among us ; and many ways to kill. All killing is not premeditated , I don't think Theist and Atheist planned on their killing , but we still live in the killing fields.
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497826 wrote: Not religion per se rather the idiots who follow them theist just like to mkid themselves they are more rational but they still believe in an invisible friend.
I agree.
I agree.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497864 wrote: They have killed certain biblical principles as well. Atheist have killed the bible as a whole; there are many killers among us ; and many ways to kill. All killing is not premeditated , I don't think Theist and Atheist planned on their killing , but we still live in the killing fields.
There I'll have to disagree with you, "the Church" has knowingly and deliberately been responsible for millions of deaths in God's name - from the Inquisition and the massacre of heretics / witches to the Crusades to the internecine infighting between Sunni and Shia, the list goes on.
There I'll have to disagree with you, "the Church" has knowingly and deliberately been responsible for millions of deaths in God's name - from the Inquisition and the massacre of heretics / witches to the Crusades to the internecine infighting between Sunni and Shia, the list goes on.
The fear of this site being religious
Bryn Mawr;1497873 wrote: There I'll have to disagree with you, "the Church" has knowingly and deliberately been responsible for millions of deaths in God's name - from the Inquisition and the massacre of heretics / witches to the Crusades to the internecine infighting between Sunni and Shia, the list goes on.
Well your right , I was trying to give them the benefit of doubt ; but I cannot deny it. I just know who really caused it beneath the surface , and it was not humanity. But that is going much deeper into things; and many cannot go that deep, or their thoughts drown. There is a moment of manipulation in the spirit world that impulses humanity , but one has to know the spirit world exist, or it is excused away.
Well your right , I was trying to give them the benefit of doubt ; but I cannot deny it. I just know who really caused it beneath the surface , and it was not humanity. But that is going much deeper into things; and many cannot go that deep, or their thoughts drown. There is a moment of manipulation in the spirit world that impulses humanity , but one has to know the spirit world exist, or it is excused away.
The fear of this site being religious
I fear this thread. It's being bumped to the top of the new post list all day long.
The fear of this site being religious
Saint_;1497882 wrote: I fear this thread. It's being bumped to the top of the new post list all day long.
Your imagining things , the new post list is really backwards; were in the bottom of the line. I am willing to look at things backwards in order to pacify your fears.
Your imagining things , the new post list is really backwards; were in the bottom of the line. I am willing to look at things backwards in order to pacify your fears.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497865 wrote: I agree.
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
At least now you seem to concede the bible is not the word of god since you happily ignoreor pretend they don't exist those bits you don't agree with. In which case I ask again why do you believe in god?
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
At least now you seem to concede the bible is not the word of god since you happily ignoreor pretend they don't exist those bits you don't agree with. In which case I ask again why do you believe in god?
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497888 wrote: :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
At least now you seem to concede the bible is not the word of god since you happily ignoreor pretend they don't exist those bits you don't agree with. In which case I ask again why do you believe in god?
Because I am too intelligent not to believe in him.
At least now you seem to concede the bible is not the word of god since you happily ignoreor pretend they don't exist those bits you don't agree with. In which case I ask again why do you believe in god?
Because I am too intelligent not to believe in him.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497890 wrote: Because I am too intelligent not to believe in him.
But not intelligent enough to prove he exists.
But not intelligent enough to prove he exists.
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497893 wrote: But not intelligent enough to prove he exists.
I have proved it to myself , what you believe about God is meaningless to me.
I have proved it to myself , what you believe about God is meaningless to me.
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497893 wrote: But not intelligent enough to prove he exists.
A God that relied of proof would not be much of a God.
A God that relied of proof would not be much of a God.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497895 wrote: I have proved it to myself , what you believe about God is meaningless to me.
As your belief in god is meaningless to anyone else.
posted by Larsmac
A God that relied of proof would not be much of a God.
That's the great catch all isn't it. God moves in mysterious ways, god will talk to you when you are ready, ours not to reason why etc etce.
people like mickiel cite the bible as their authority and proof of god's existence and claim it to be the revealed word of god that the writers were all insprired through the ages and it's how god talks to us all then when you point out the contradictions inherent in the bible when you point things they they choose not to believe (like the trinity or original sin) are actually in the bible it becomes clear they haven't actually read the whole thing and that they are basically picking those bits they like and ignoring the implications of what they claim to believe - the bible is true except for that bit and well may be that bit. IMO you should at least read it before you start holding forth about it especially if you are claiming it is the unchanged word of god and stop.
You may quote the bits in the bible where it warns against thinking too much and to be wary of those who question and that all will be revealed at the end of days. That's your prerogative but it's not much of a god if that is the best way he can find to communicate. Did god make the devil? If he did then he's malavolent, if he didn't then he's impotent or at least there is another god arouind a powerful as him. Do you have free will? If you don't as mickiel says we don't then god made you ensuring and knowing all the choices you were going to make why then would he send you to eternal hell unless you are just a plaything of nthe gods. If you do have free will but god knows what you are going to do then it must be a bit like watching soap reruns so far as he is concerned - knows what will happen but watches anyway. Why would you want to worship such a being? troture me father for I nhave sinned.
Belief in god and belief in religion mught not necessarily go hand in hand but if you believe in god at least acknowledge it makes no sense to do so. So far as I am concerned there is no evidence that god exists and I've yet to meet any theist that come up with any better arguments than I do so it must be true. So if you can do btter than that please do so.
There is no fear of this site being religious, given the number of political threads just now you might rather think it a political forum dominated by uk residents.
On a religious site the existence of god is usually a given. Atheists tend not to bother posting on them very often since you can't actually argue about religion unless you believe in god in the first place and the ligious are incredbly intolerant of free thinkers. On a secular site like this one the religiois post all the time and then get upset when they are challenged about their basic belief or scared off or upset when it dawns on them they know a lot less about their belief system than they thouight they did. Pahu doesn't discuss he just posts he's probably get tuirfed off a religious site for being the "wrong" religion.
A God that relied of proof would not be much of a God.
You know I could as well as you can cite all the relevant arguments about just believing, have faikth, don't question, don't be taken in by those who test your faith. Blind faith just doesn't do it for me I don't really care what p[eople believe but religion has a baleful impact on the world and it seems we are in the midst of a revival and a few have always been able to do great harm in the name of religion at least in a global society more people ae able to question that's why they preach the internet is the devil's instrument it's a gateway to knowledge the rleigious donlt like that.
As your belief in god is meaningless to anyone else.
posted by Larsmac
A God that relied of proof would not be much of a God.
That's the great catch all isn't it. God moves in mysterious ways, god will talk to you when you are ready, ours not to reason why etc etce.
people like mickiel cite the bible as their authority and proof of god's existence and claim it to be the revealed word of god that the writers were all insprired through the ages and it's how god talks to us all then when you point out the contradictions inherent in the bible when you point things they they choose not to believe (like the trinity or original sin) are actually in the bible it becomes clear they haven't actually read the whole thing and that they are basically picking those bits they like and ignoring the implications of what they claim to believe - the bible is true except for that bit and well may be that bit. IMO you should at least read it before you start holding forth about it especially if you are claiming it is the unchanged word of god and stop.
You may quote the bits in the bible where it warns against thinking too much and to be wary of those who question and that all will be revealed at the end of days. That's your prerogative but it's not much of a god if that is the best way he can find to communicate. Did god make the devil? If he did then he's malavolent, if he didn't then he's impotent or at least there is another god arouind a powerful as him. Do you have free will? If you don't as mickiel says we don't then god made you ensuring and knowing all the choices you were going to make why then would he send you to eternal hell unless you are just a plaything of nthe gods. If you do have free will but god knows what you are going to do then it must be a bit like watching soap reruns so far as he is concerned - knows what will happen but watches anyway. Why would you want to worship such a being? troture me father for I nhave sinned.
Belief in god and belief in religion mught not necessarily go hand in hand but if you believe in god at least acknowledge it makes no sense to do so. So far as I am concerned there is no evidence that god exists and I've yet to meet any theist that come up with any better arguments than I do so it must be true. So if you can do btter than that please do so.
There is no fear of this site being religious, given the number of political threads just now you might rather think it a political forum dominated by uk residents.
On a religious site the existence of god is usually a given. Atheists tend not to bother posting on them very often since you can't actually argue about religion unless you believe in god in the first place and the ligious are incredbly intolerant of free thinkers. On a secular site like this one the religiois post all the time and then get upset when they are challenged about their basic belief or scared off or upset when it dawns on them they know a lot less about their belief system than they thouight they did. Pahu doesn't discuss he just posts he's probably get tuirfed off a religious site for being the "wrong" religion.
A God that relied of proof would not be much of a God.
You know I could as well as you can cite all the relevant arguments about just believing, have faikth, don't question, don't be taken in by those who test your faith. Blind faith just doesn't do it for me I don't really care what p[eople believe but religion has a baleful impact on the world and it seems we are in the midst of a revival and a few have always been able to do great harm in the name of religion at least in a global society more people ae able to question that's why they preach the internet is the devil's instrument it's a gateway to knowledge the rleigious donlt like that.
The fear of this site being religious
I disagree with the notion that Atheist tend not to post on religious threads. That is not true and its based on individual sites. On this one they do.
I also disagree with the notion that there is no God. We have reasoned this out ; reason itself is proof of God. Humans did not grow a body and a brain from dirt and rocks , conscious reason did not create itself from meat and bones. What's wrong with you ; what's wrong with people who think that our ability to reason is a thing that decided to evolve into reality slowly over the years and just some how become a part of man. Reason is not a plant that grew in the dirt , after it just created itself beneath the surface. Reason is a software from God , downloaded into humanity.
I also disagree with the notion that there is no God. We have reasoned this out ; reason itself is proof of God. Humans did not grow a body and a brain from dirt and rocks , conscious reason did not create itself from meat and bones. What's wrong with you ; what's wrong with people who think that our ability to reason is a thing that decided to evolve into reality slowly over the years and just some how become a part of man. Reason is not a plant that grew in the dirt , after it just created itself beneath the surface. Reason is a software from God , downloaded into humanity.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497909 wrote: I disagree with the notion that Atheist tend not to post on religious threads. That is not true and its based on individual sites. On this one they do.
I also disagree with the notion that there is no God. We have reasoned this out ; reason itself is proof of God. Humans did not grow a body and a brain from dirt and rocks , conscious reason did not create itself from meat and bones. What's wrong with you ; what's wrong with people who think that our ability to reason is a thing that decided to evolve into reality slowly over the years and just some how become a part of man. Reason is not a plant that grew in the dirt , after it just created itself beneath the surface. Reason is a software from God , downloaded into humanity.
Might I ask who you're trying to convince - the members of this site or yourself?
You are making a statement of belief, there is no logic behind it - what is wrong with me is that I don't hold your belief and I see nothing in your statement that leads me towards it.
As a statement of belief it is fine, as a logical argument it is not convincing.
I also disagree with the notion that there is no God. We have reasoned this out ; reason itself is proof of God. Humans did not grow a body and a brain from dirt and rocks , conscious reason did not create itself from meat and bones. What's wrong with you ; what's wrong with people who think that our ability to reason is a thing that decided to evolve into reality slowly over the years and just some how become a part of man. Reason is not a plant that grew in the dirt , after it just created itself beneath the surface. Reason is a software from God , downloaded into humanity.
Might I ask who you're trying to convince - the members of this site or yourself?
You are making a statement of belief, there is no logic behind it - what is wrong with me is that I don't hold your belief and I see nothing in your statement that leads me towards it.
As a statement of belief it is fine, as a logical argument it is not convincing.
The fear of this site being religious
Bryn Mawr;1497910 wrote: Might I ask who you're trying to convince - the members of this site or yourself?
You are making a statement of belief, there is no logic behind it - what is wrong with me is that I don't hold your belief and I see nothing in your statement that leads me towards it.
As a statement of belief it is fine, as a logical argument it is not convincing.
I am not trying to convince anyone ; why should I try to change an Atheist ? For what? An Atheist is an Atheist, because they are supposed to be Atheist; that has been my expressed view , I don't try to convince Theist of anything , they are more blind than Atheist in my view.
I present my argument as my statement of views , holding absolutely nothing to do with convincing others. I hold no interest in changing minds , I already know people think like they think , because they are supposed to , I have nothing to do with their conscious position.
You are making a statement of belief, there is no logic behind it - what is wrong with me is that I don't hold your belief and I see nothing in your statement that leads me towards it.
As a statement of belief it is fine, as a logical argument it is not convincing.
I am not trying to convince anyone ; why should I try to change an Atheist ? For what? An Atheist is an Atheist, because they are supposed to be Atheist; that has been my expressed view , I don't try to convince Theist of anything , they are more blind than Atheist in my view.
I present my argument as my statement of views , holding absolutely nothing to do with convincing others. I hold no interest in changing minds , I already know people think like they think , because they are supposed to , I have nothing to do with their conscious position.
The fear of this site being religious
The fear of this site being religious , you know, you don't always want something in your window. Your measure of Consciousness. You know , you get tired of looking at it. Its always there , haunting you ; draining you , rotting your peace. A sore that will not heal. A train going the wrong way. A thing you cannot control.
The fear of this site being religious
I have the fear of this religion becoming site-ish.
And this thread is haunting me, draining me, rotting my peace. This thread is a sore that will not heal. A thread train going the wrong way. A thread I cannot control....
And this thread is haunting me, draining me, rotting my peace. This thread is a sore that will not heal. A thread train going the wrong way. A thread I cannot control....
The fear of this site being religious
Saint_;1497915 wrote: I have the fear of this religion becoming site-ish.
And this thread is haunting me, draining me, rotting my peace. This thread is a sore that will not heal. A thread train going the wrong way. A thread I cannot control....
Why are you reading it?
And this thread is haunting me, draining me, rotting my peace. This thread is a sore that will not heal. A thread train going the wrong way. A thread I cannot control....
Why are you reading it?
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497909 wrote: I disagree with the notion that Atheist tend not to post on religious threads. That is not true and its based on individual sites. On this one they do.
I also disagree with the notion that there is no God. We have reasoned this out ; reason itself is proof of God. Humans did not grow a body and a brain from dirt and rocks , conscious reason did not create itself from meat and bones. What's wrong with you ; what's wrong with people who think that our ability to reason is a thing that decided to evolve into reality slowly over the years and just some how become a part of man. Reason is not a plant that grew in the dirt , after it just created itself beneath the surface. Reason is a software from God , downloaded into humanity.
you should note I said atheists tend not to post on religious SITES. This is a secular discussion forum with a religious section.
I also disagree with the notion that there is no God. We have reasoned this out ; reason itself is proof of God
You have reasoned it out and that satisfies you but it is not proof of god to anyone else but you. I don't agree with you. The existence of reason is proof of god to you since you believe it must have a cause but positing the existence of God in order to explain the existence of reason doesn't get you anywhere. - If all things have a cause Who made god? I disagree with your basic premise that all things must have a cause and that is god.
If you argue that god is has been and always will be that is inconsistent with an argument that all things must have a cause. Without God there is one entity the existence of which we cannot explain, namely the universe; with God there is one entity the existence of which we cannot explain, namely God.
You also claimed that the bible was proof of god and that was how he talked to mankind you kind of changed your tune on that one when it bacame aoparent you hadn't actually read it.
I present my argument as my statement of views , holding absolutely nothing to do with convincing others. I hold no interest in changing minds , I already know people think like they think , because they are supposed to , I have nothing to do with their conscious position.
If all is preordained and we have no free will what is the point of our existence existence as you see it? I assume you do think god has a purpose or are you going to come out with god moves in mysterious ways and it is n ot for us to question type of nonsense.
I also disagree with the notion that there is no God. We have reasoned this out ; reason itself is proof of God. Humans did not grow a body and a brain from dirt and rocks , conscious reason did not create itself from meat and bones. What's wrong with you ; what's wrong with people who think that our ability to reason is a thing that decided to evolve into reality slowly over the years and just some how become a part of man. Reason is not a plant that grew in the dirt , after it just created itself beneath the surface. Reason is a software from God , downloaded into humanity.
you should note I said atheists tend not to post on religious SITES. This is a secular discussion forum with a religious section.
I also disagree with the notion that there is no God. We have reasoned this out ; reason itself is proof of God
You have reasoned it out and that satisfies you but it is not proof of god to anyone else but you. I don't agree with you. The existence of reason is proof of god to you since you believe it must have a cause but positing the existence of God in order to explain the existence of reason doesn't get you anywhere. - If all things have a cause Who made god? I disagree with your basic premise that all things must have a cause and that is god.
If you argue that god is has been and always will be that is inconsistent with an argument that all things must have a cause. Without God there is one entity the existence of which we cannot explain, namely the universe; with God there is one entity the existence of which we cannot explain, namely God.
You also claimed that the bible was proof of god and that was how he talked to mankind you kind of changed your tune on that one when it bacame aoparent you hadn't actually read it.
I present my argument as my statement of views , holding absolutely nothing to do with convincing others. I hold no interest in changing minds , I already know people think like they think , because they are supposed to , I have nothing to do with their conscious position.
If all is preordained and we have no free will what is the point of our existence existence as you see it? I assume you do think god has a purpose or are you going to come out with god moves in mysterious ways and it is n ot for us to question type of nonsense.
The fear of this site being religious
gmc;1497951 wrote:
If all is preordained and we have no free will what is the point of our existence existence as you see it? I assume you do think god has a purpose or are you going to come out with god moves in mysterious ways and it is n ot for us to question type of nonsense.
I won't bother you with nonsense , this discussion is meaningless. We are polar oppisites , destined to think like we do.
If all is preordained and we have no free will what is the point of our existence existence as you see it? I assume you do think god has a purpose or are you going to come out with god moves in mysterious ways and it is n ot for us to question type of nonsense.
I won't bother you with nonsense , this discussion is meaningless. We are polar oppisites , destined to think like we do.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497981 wrote: I won't bother you with nonsense , this discussion is meaningless. We are polar oppisites , destined to think like we do.
Sometimes destiny has nothing to do with it.
You start with known, provable, fact and apply strict, provable, logic to those facts and end up with a provable conclusion.
In the absence of such proof you are left with balance of probability reasoning - this still applies the strict rules of logic but with an assigned balance of probability to any unprovable "facts".
In the absence of reasoning you are left with faith in what you have been told.
To those who believe in reason, destiny has no part in the process.
Sometimes destiny has nothing to do with it.
You start with known, provable, fact and apply strict, provable, logic to those facts and end up with a provable conclusion.
In the absence of such proof you are left with balance of probability reasoning - this still applies the strict rules of logic but with an assigned balance of probability to any unprovable "facts".
In the absence of reasoning you are left with faith in what you have been told.
To those who believe in reason, destiny has no part in the process.
The fear of this site being religious
Bryn Mawr;1497985 wrote: Sometimes destiny has nothing to do with it.
You start with known, provable, fact and apply strict, provable, logic to those facts and end up with a provable conclusion.
In the absence of such proof you are left with balance of probability reasoning - this still applies the strict rules of logic but with an assigned balance of probability to any unprovable "facts".
In the absence of reasoning you are left with faith in what you have been told.
To those who believe in reason, destiny has no part in the process.
I believe in reason , and consider it an insult for Atheist to suggest that Theist have no reason , or are devoid of it; as if we are unreasonable beings.I believe Theist and Atheist are destined to be locked into disagreement. And that is just how it is ; wisdom is knowing how it is.
You start with known, provable, fact and apply strict, provable, logic to those facts and end up with a provable conclusion.
In the absence of such proof you are left with balance of probability reasoning - this still applies the strict rules of logic but with an assigned balance of probability to any unprovable "facts".
In the absence of reasoning you are left with faith in what you have been told.
To those who believe in reason, destiny has no part in the process.
I believe in reason , and consider it an insult for Atheist to suggest that Theist have no reason , or are devoid of it; as if we are unreasonable beings.I believe Theist and Atheist are destined to be locked into disagreement. And that is just how it is ; wisdom is knowing how it is.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1497987 wrote: I believe in reason , and consider it an insult for Atheist to suggest that Theist have no reason , or are devoid of it; as if we are unreasonable beings.I believe Theist and Atheist are destined to be locked into disagreement. And that is just how it is ; wisdom is knowing how it is.
It way you that suggested that it depended on "destiny" - I did not specify that "thiests have no reason, or are devoid of it", just that destiny should not feature in the equation and it should depend on reason alone.
It way you that suggested that it depended on "destiny" - I did not specify that "thiests have no reason, or are devoid of it", just that destiny should not feature in the equation and it should depend on reason alone.
The fear of this site being religious
Bryn Mawr;1497990 wrote: It way you that suggested that it depended on "destiny" - I did not specify that "thiests have no reason, or are devoid of it", just that destiny should not feature in the equation and it should depend on reason alone.
Well maybe it "Should not" ,but I think it does feature into reality , or things as they have been , are now , and will be.In other words , destiny.
Well maybe it "Should not" ,but I think it does feature into reality , or things as they have been , are now , and will be.In other words , destiny.
The fear of this site being religious
Bryn Mawr;1497985 wrote:
To those who believe in reason, destiny has no part in the process.
Well, you can still believe in reason and play the probabilities, but sometimes you still see highly improbably or even "impossible" outcomes. (Accroding to quantum physics, ther is, for example, a finite probability of walking through a wall)
That said, I've often found in my life there were times that I felt as though I was not following the given probability line of least resistance. Going horribly off road so to speak. And other times when I got the distinct feeling that my decisions and life were unfolding exactly as they should. That's why I believe that both there is a plan, and that you can still get lost from it through free will.
To those who believe in reason, destiny has no part in the process.
Well, you can still believe in reason and play the probabilities, but sometimes you still see highly improbably or even "impossible" outcomes. (Accroding to quantum physics, ther is, for example, a finite probability of walking through a wall)
That said, I've often found in my life there were times that I felt as though I was not following the given probability line of least resistance. Going horribly off road so to speak. And other times when I got the distinct feeling that my decisions and life were unfolding exactly as they should. That's why I believe that both there is a plan, and that you can still get lost from it through free will.
The fear of this site being religious
What will be will be. Destiny is purpose. Its supposed to be . I am a man because I am supposed to be.I am a Theist because I am supposed to be. Atheist are Atheist because they are " Supposed" to be. Agnostics are supposed to be what they are .
Supposed -- A plan , to assume as true ; to expect or design.
Supposed -- A plan , to assume as true ; to expect or design.
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1498024 wrote: What will be will be. Destiny is purpose. Its supposed to be . I am a man because I am supposed to be.I am a Theist because I am supposed to be. Atheist are Atheist because they are " Supposed" to be. Agnostics are supposed to be what they are .
Supposed -- A plan , to assume as true ; to expect or design.
If our lives are that tightly controlled that even our thoughts are a pre-determined part of "a plan" then why bother to lead them?
I reject your statement as a false belief.
Supposed -- A plan , to assume as true ; to expect or design.
If our lives are that tightly controlled that even our thoughts are a pre-determined part of "a plan" then why bother to lead them?
I reject your statement as a false belief.
The fear of this site being religious
I don't believe it either. There are times in history where it's painfully obvious that things went off the rails. The young prince died. The gifted scientist didn't get the education he needed. The brilliant leader lost a critical election...
But there are other times when the right person is born, into the right family, at the right time, survives to adulthood and gets the opportunities they need. Then all of mankind takes a step forward.
Both Abraham Lincoln and Winston Churchill are good examples.
So it seems to me that there is a underlying plan, but free will does affect it.
But there are other times when the right person is born, into the right family, at the right time, survives to adulthood and gets the opportunities they need. Then all of mankind takes a step forward.
Both Abraham Lincoln and Winston Churchill are good examples.
So it seems to me that there is a underlying plan, but free will does affect it.
The fear of this site being religious
I reject the notion of free will. Here is a rather long series on why I reject it, please excuse the length of it , but I wanted to give an extensive reasoning;
The Lake of Fire - Part 15
The Lake of Fire - Part 15
The fear of this site being religious
Mickiel;1498032 wrote: I reject the notion of free will. Here is a rather long series on why I reject it, please excuse the length of it , but I wanted to give an extensive reasoning;
The Lake of Fire - Part 15
We live in different worlds
The Lake of Fire - Part 15
We live in different worlds
The fear of this site being religious
Bryn Mawr;1498033 wrote: We live in different worlds
Oh yes, we do. In my world , there is no such thing as free will . We know that in order for a will to be free , it must be uninfluenced by outside sources ; which is impossible! We consider Jeremiah 10:23," O Lord I know that the way of man is not IN himself , it is not in man that walks to direct his path." Free will is not in us , we are constantly manipulated by hundreds of things. We have a will , but we are contained; limited ; freedom is unlimited.
Oh yes, we do. In my world , there is no such thing as free will . We know that in order for a will to be free , it must be uninfluenced by outside sources ; which is impossible! We consider Jeremiah 10:23," O Lord I know that the way of man is not IN himself , it is not in man that walks to direct his path." Free will is not in us , we are constantly manipulated by hundreds of things. We have a will , but we are contained; limited ; freedom is unlimited.