Re: We got a new POTUS
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:40 am
So, #46 is on the books.
It's nice to see some dignity return to the office.
It's nice to see some dignity return to the office.
I thought any bomber was capable of dropping nuclear weapons?magentaflame wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:33 pm Meanwhile 2000 people have been detained in Russia. And China just flew over Taiwanese waters with nuclear capable bombers.
And the world bumfight continues.
A little history - maybe it ought to be in a new thread though.magentaflame wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:33 pm China just flew over Taiwanese waters with nuclear capable bombers.
Actually, Folks running Taiwan claim to be "The Real China"spot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:35 pmA little history - maybe it ought to be in a new thread though.magentaflame wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:33 pm China just flew over Taiwanese waters with nuclear capable bombers.
Taiwan was ruled from China from 1683 to 1895, following previous colonial exploitation by the Dutch and the Spanish who had taken the island from earlier local Chinese rule.
From 1895 to 1945, much as with Korea, Taiwan was a colony of Japan. The Japanese lost their empire in 1945 and the island reverted to Chinese rule. The Chinese government from 1945 to 1949 was the Nationalist government. When the Nationalists lost mainland China to the Communist party, it fled to Taiwan and continued to rule that part of China while the Communist party ruled the mainland. That political separation of one country continues today.
The reason Taiwan has not reunified with the mainland from 1949 to now is that America backs the pro-American local Nationalist party, just as Korea has not reunified from 1953 to now is because America backs the pro-American local regime in South Korea. America is, you might notice, half a world away on another continent but that doesn't stop it from interfering in local affairs across Asia.
Perhaps you think Taiwan is not part of China.
As best I understand matters, both the government of Mainland China and the government of Taiwan agree that the two areas constitute a single country called China. Each government maintains that it is the sole legitimate government of China. The Taiwan government considers Mao to have been a war criminal and the Beijing government to be illegitimate, the Mainland government considers Chiang Kai-shek (leader of the Kuomintang from 1925 until his death in 1975) to have been a war criminal and quite reasonably laugh at the absurd pretensions of Taipei.LarsMac wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:22 amActually, Folks running Taiwan claim to be "The Real China"spot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:35 pmA little history - maybe it ought to be in a new thread though.magentaflame wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:33 pm China just flew over Taiwanese waters with nuclear capable bombers.
Taiwan was ruled from China from 1683 to 1895, following previous colonial exploitation by the Dutch and the Spanish who had taken the island from earlier local Chinese rule.
From 1895 to 1945, much as with Korea, Taiwan was a colony of Japan. The Japanese lost their empire in 1945 and the island reverted to Chinese rule. The Chinese government from 1945 to 1949 was the Nationalist government. When the Nationalists lost mainland China to the Communist party, it fled to Taiwan and continued to rule that part of China while the Communist party ruled the mainland. That political separation of one country continues today.
The reason Taiwan has not reunified with the mainland from 1949 to now is that America backs the pro-American local Nationalist party, just as Korea has not reunified from 1953 to now is because America backs the pro-American local regime in South Korea. America is, you might notice, half a world away on another continent but that doesn't stop it from interfering in local affairs across Asia.
Perhaps you think Taiwan is not part of China.
That pretty well sums it up.spot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:36 amAs best I understand matters, both the government of Mainland China and the government of Taiwan agree that the two areas constitute a single country called China. Each government maintains that it is the sole legitimate government of China. The Taiwan government considers Mao to have been a war criminal and the Beijing government to be illegitimate, the Mainland government considers Chiang Kai-shek (leader of the Kuomintang from 1925 until his death in 1975) to have been a war criminal and quite reasonably laugh at the absurd pretensions of Taipei.LarsMac wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:22 amActually, Folks running Taiwan claim to be "The Real China"spot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:35 pmA little history - maybe it ought to be in a new thread though.magentaflame wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:33 pm China just flew over Taiwanese waters with nuclear capable bombers.
Taiwan was ruled from China from 1683 to 1895, following previous colonial exploitation by the Dutch and the Spanish who had taken the island from earlier local Chinese rule.
From 1895 to 1945, much as with Korea, Taiwan was a colony of Japan. The Japanese lost their empire in 1945 and the island reverted to Chinese rule. The Chinese government from 1945 to 1949 was the Nationalist government. When the Nationalists lost mainland China to the Communist party, it fled to Taiwan and continued to rule that part of China while the Communist party ruled the mainland. That political separation of one country continues today.
The reason Taiwan has not reunified with the mainland from 1949 to now is that America backs the pro-American local Nationalist party, just as Korea has not reunified from 1953 to now is because America backs the pro-American local regime in South Korea. America is, you might notice, half a world away on another continent but that doesn't stop it from interfering in local affairs across Asia.
Perhaps you think Taiwan is not part of China.
I am far more concerned with how China treats the Uigars and Tibetans, than how the relationship with the old Kuomintang goes.spot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:36 am The island of Taiwan is smaller than the US State of West Virginia or Maine. Mainland China, by contrast, is 20% larger than the entire Contiguous United States. To express that as a purely Chinese comparison, Mainland China is 2,750 times larger than Taiwan. I'm not sure why anyone would be so daft as to think China should be governed by the Kuomintang these days but it would be nice if the country could just be left to its own devices and reunify instead of being pushed around by successive American administrations.
I think the present regime in Taiwan should be asked a simple question. When the Nationalists fled to Taiwan in 1949 and transferred their government to Taipei, did they land on Chinese territory or did they invade a foreign nation?China sees democratic Taiwan as a breakaway province, but Taiwan sees itself as a sovereign state, with its own constitution, military, and elected leaders.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55851052
The US and UK have been meddling in the affairs of China and the region for at least century. Why stop now?spot wrote: ↑Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:09 pm The challenge relating to Taiwan is summed up by the BBC today as:
I think the present regime in Taiwan should be asked a simple question. When the Nationalists fled to Taiwan in 1949 and transferred their government to Taipei, did they land on Chinese territory or did they invade a foreign nation?China sees democratic Taiwan as a breakaway province, but Taiwan sees itself as a sovereign state, with its own constitution, military, and elected leaders.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55851052
I can't imagine you'll find anyone in the government on Taiwan who will say it was an invasion. I think they'd all agree it was Chinese territory before the transfer and that they then continued to insist they were the sole legitimate government of all China.
They may still be engaged in a civil war, but there are definitely not two Chinas. Why the White House feels it has skin in this game is the only remaining puzzle.
Executive orders are going to haunt the US government for the rest of this century.
The British - all the European powers - found China too large a mouthful, none of us ever managed to govern it, but Britain in particular succeeded in destroying it as a working country from 1840 for 80 years, after which the Japanese kept it that way for the next thirty. It's only with the decisive victory of Mao that the country came out from under foreign domination and evolved, spectacularly quickly and with a lot of pain, back to the world leader status it rightly occupied for millennia before the European Christians arrived and started evangelizing.
The Irishspot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:12 amThe British - all the European powers - found China too large a mouthful, none of us ever managed to govern it, but Britain in particular succeeded in destroying it as a working country from 1840 for 80 years, after which the Japanese kept it that way for the next thirty. It's only with the decisive victory of Mao that the country came out from under foreign domination and evolved, spectacularly quickly and with a lot of pain, back to the world leader status it rightly occupied for millennia before the European Christians arrived and started evangelizing.
Before World War Two, the only impact America had on China was as one of many foreign countries where money could be made, by renting out peasants. Who else laid your railroads.
And them. We starved the Irish over here which you then allowed to become corrupt policemen in your big cities. Chinese labour gangs back then didn't fit the American category of White so they couldn't take jobs. Something's niggling in the back of my head about how long discrimination lasts, hang on. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Tami+Barker%22+%22asian%22 - that's it. Three years ago. God only knows how anyone can be brought up to keep a prejudice that long, but I reckon it also has something to do with the nationalistic enmity against China in the press now.LarsMac wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:12 pmThe Irishspot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:12 amThe British - all the European powers - found China too large a mouthful, none of us ever managed to govern it, but Britain in particular succeeded in destroying it as a working country from 1840 for 80 years, after which the Japanese kept it that way for the next thirty. It's only with the decisive victory of Mao that the country came out from under foreign domination and evolved, spectacularly quickly and with a lot of pain, back to the world leader status it rightly occupied for millennia before the European Christians arrived and started evangelizing.
Before World War Two, the only impact America had on China was as one of many foreign countries where money could be made, by renting out peasants. Who else laid your railroads.
Discrimination is certainly nothing new. And will likely never be eliminated.spot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:39 pmAnd them. We starved the Irish over here which you then allowed to become corrupt policemen in your big cities. Chinese labour gangs back then didn't fit the American category of White so they couldn't take jobs. Something's niggling in the back of my head about how long discrimination lasts, hang on. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Tami+Barker%22+%22asian%22 - that's it. Three years ago. God only knows how anyone can be brought up to keep a prejudice that long, but I reckon it also has something to do with the nationalistic enmity against China in the press now.LarsMac wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:12 pmThe Irishspot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:12 amThe British - all the European powers - found China too large a mouthful, none of us ever managed to govern it, but Britain in particular succeeded in destroying it as a working country from 1840 for 80 years, after which the Japanese kept it that way for the next thirty. It's only with the decisive victory of Mao that the country came out from under foreign domination and evolved, spectacularly quickly and with a lot of pain, back to the world leader status it rightly occupied for millennia before the European Christians arrived and started evangelizing.
Before World War Two, the only impact America had on China was as one of many foreign countries where money could be made, by renting out peasants. Who else laid your railroads.
LarsMac wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:02 pmDiscrimination is certainly nothing new. And will likely never be eliminated.spot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:39 pmAnd them. We starved the Irish over here which you then allowed to become corrupt policemen in your big cities. Chinese labour gangs back then didn't fit the American category of White so they couldn't take jobs. Something's niggling in the back of my head about how long discrimination lasts, hang on. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Tami+Barker%22+%22asian%22 - that's it. Three years ago. God only knows how anyone can be brought up to keep a prejudice that long, but I reckon it also has something to do with the nationalistic enmity against China in the press now.LarsMac wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:12 pmThe Irishspot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:12 amThe British - all the European powers - found China too large a mouthful, none of us ever managed to govern it, but Britain in particular succeeded in destroying it as a working country from 1840 for 80 years, after which the Japanese kept it that way for the next thirty. It's only with the decisive victory of Mao that the country came out from under foreign domination and evolved, spectacularly quickly and with a lot of pain, back to the world leader status it rightly occupied for millennia before the European Christians arrived and started evangelizing.
Before World War Two, the only impact America had on China was as one of many foreign countries where money could be made, by renting out peasants. Who else laid your railroads.
Various and sundry collective populations will fall in and out of the unfavored, but humans are actually quite proud of our ability to segregate ourselves from this, or that, other sort.
I often have wondered how much of the discrimination against the Irish in America was due to them simply being Irish, and how much was due to them being primarily Catholic.
"I often have wondered how much of the discrimination against the Irish in America was due to them simply being Irish, and how much was due to them being primarily Catholic." -LarsMac wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:12 pmLarsMac wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:02 pmDiscrimination is certainly nothing new. And will likely never be eliminated.spot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:39 pmAnd them. We starved the Irish over here which you then allowed to become corrupt policemen in your big cities. Chinese labour gangs back then didn't fit the American category of White so they couldn't take jobs. Something's niggling in the back of my head about how long discrimination lasts, hang on. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Tami+Barker%22+%22asian%22 - that's it. Three years ago. God only knows how anyone can be brought up to keep a prejudice that long, but I reckon it also has something to do with the nationalistic enmity against China in the press now.LarsMac wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:12 pmThe Irishspot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:12 amThe British - all the European powers - found China too large a mouthful, none of us ever managed to govern it, but Britain in particular succeeded in destroying it as a working country from 1840 for 80 years, after which the Japanese kept it that way for the next thirty. It's only with the decisive victory of Mao that the country came out from under foreign domination and evolved, spectacularly quickly and with a lot of pain, back to the world leader status it rightly occupied for millennia before the European Christians arrived and started evangelizing.
Before World War Two, the only impact America had on China was as one of many foreign countries where money could be made, by renting out peasants. Who else laid your railroads.
Various and sundry collective populations will fall in and out of the unfavored, but humans are actually quite proud of our ability to segregate ourselves from this, or that, other sort.
I often have wondered how much of the discrimination against the Irish in America was due to them simply being Irish, and how much was due to them being primarily Catholic.
An interesting bit on the subject
"I often have wondered how much of the discrimination against the Irish in America was due to them simply being Irish, and how much was due to them being primarily Catholic." -
No, sweetie. That's not what happened. What actually got discussed was "Amy Coney Barrett: spotlight falls on secretive Catholic group People of Praise - Trump’s pick is a member of a ‘covenant community’ that faces claims of a ‘highly authoritarian’ structure". That's not Catholicism, that's a mind-control cult comparable with Waco or Jonestown. Its keywords are Charismatic Renewal, Pentecostal religious experience, speaking in tongues and prophecy.
condescending and passive aggressive.............I like it. lolspot wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:36 pmNo, sweetie. That's not what happened. What actually got discussed was "Amy Coney Barrett: spotlight falls on secretive Catholic group People of Praise - Trump’s pick is a member of a ‘covenant community’ that faces claims of a ‘highly authoritarian’ structure". That's not Catholicism, that's a mind-control cult comparable with Waco or Jonestown. Its keywords are Charismatic Renewal, Pentecostal religious experience, speaking in tongues and prophecy.
It is a world in which safety from Satan can only be found in submission to enlightened leaders who claim a special power from God to discern the true workings of the devil. It is a world in which a person loses psychological control of his or her own life."
A sneaky way to go after a Catholic.spot wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:36 pmNo, sweetie. That's not what happened. What actually got discussed was "Amy Coney Barrett: spotlight falls on secretive Catholic group People of Praise - Trump’s pick is a member of a ‘covenant community’ that faces claims of a ‘highly authoritarian’ structure". That's not Catholicism, that's a mind-control cult comparable with Waco or Jonestown. Its keywords are Charismatic Renewal, Pentecostal religious experience, speaking in tongues and prophecy.
At least I was quoting a respected American academic on the cultish nature of People of Praise.tude dog wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:51 amA sneaky way to go after a Catholic.spot wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:36 pmNo, sweetie. That's not what happened. What actually got discussed was "Amy Coney Barrett: spotlight falls on secretive Catholic group People of Praise - Trump’s pick is a member of a ‘covenant community’ that faces claims of a ‘highly authoritarian’ structure". That's not Catholicism, that's a mind-control cult comparable with Waco or Jonestown. Its keywords are Charismatic Renewal, Pentecostal religious experience, speaking in tongues and prophecy.
I don't think you guys understand, China believes all of the south pacific is theirs. I think spot needs to understand the role America played in the south pacific in WW11 before calling it "pushed around" .LarsMac wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:38 pmThat pretty well sums it up.spot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:36 amAs best I understand matters, both the government of Mainland China and the government of Taiwan agree that the two areas constitute a single country called China. Each government maintains that it is the sole legitimate government of China. The Taiwan government considers Mao to have been a war criminal and the Beijing government to be illegitimate, the Mainland government considers Chiang Kai-shek (leader of the Kuomintang from 1925 until his death in 1975) to have been a war criminal and quite reasonably laugh at the absurd pretensions of Taipei.LarsMac wrote: ↑Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:22 amActually, Folks running Taiwan claim to be "The Real China"spot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:35 pmA little history - maybe it ought to be in a new thread though.magentaflame wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:33 pm China just flew over Taiwanese waters with nuclear capable bombers.
Taiwan was ruled from China from 1683 to 1895, following previous colonial exploitation by the Dutch and the Spanish who had taken the island from earlier local Chinese rule.
From 1895 to 1945, much as with Korea, Taiwan was a colony of Japan. The Japanese lost their empire in 1945 and the island reverted to Chinese rule. The Chinese government from 1945 to 1949 was the Nationalist government. When the Nationalists lost mainland China to the Communist party, it fled to Taiwan and continued to rule that part of China while the Communist party ruled the mainland. That political separation of one country continues today.
The reason Taiwan has not reunified with the mainland from 1949 to now is that America backs the pro-American local Nationalist party, just as Korea has not reunified from 1953 to now is because America backs the pro-American local regime in South Korea. America is, you might notice, half a world away on another continent but that doesn't stop it from interfering in local affairs across Asia.
Perhaps you think Taiwan is not part of China.
In interesting story:
When I was very young, my parents met and were favored by a family from Quanzhou who owned a restaurant in the DC area. They adopted us as family. I called them Grandma and Grandpa. We were very close until my father took a job in California.
We remained in touch for many years. In the mid 70s I paid them a visit and we had many conversations. They decided to return to China in the early 80s and I never heard from them, again.
When I mentioned them during my visit to Beijing in 2010, I was advised not to speak of them, as any association with the old nationalists could still cause heartburn for people on the mainland.
I am far more concerned with how China treats the Uigars and Tibetans, than how the relationship with the old Kuomintang goes.spot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:36 am The island of Taiwan is smaller than the US State of West Virginia or Maine. Mainland China, by contrast, is 20% larger than the entire Contiguous United States. To express that as a purely Chinese comparison, Mainland China is 2,750 times larger than Taiwan. I'm not sure why anyone would be so daft as to think China should be governed by the Kuomintang these days but it would be nice if the country could just be left to its own devices and reunify instead of being pushed around by successive American administrations.
All I need do really is ask you to write here what it is that China has taken. "They take what they want", yes? What have they taken?magentaflame wrote: ↑Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:27 pm
I don't think you guys understand, China believes all of the south pacific is theirs. I think spot needs to understand the role America played in the south pacific in WW11 before calling it "pushed around" .
Fact is China doesn't care if you're concerned or not . They take what they want and laugh at anyone who criticises them. They are an extremely dangerous country and anyone who doesn't see it will perish. And if spot can't see how Hong Kong is turning out then spot is blind.
I'm not sure how you think an article of 4,345 words is going to help, to be honest. It takes me an hour to read that many words and all I really need is a couple of sentences of what you, yourself, have as answers to my very specific brief questions. What it is that China has taken, and has Hong Kong always been a part of China or not? That's all, and I asked them because those are the issues your post raised. I don't need someone else's novella, just a glimpse of what you meant.magentaflame wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:32 pm https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/22/ch ... -cold-war/
and it's happening Now.
It depends whether anyone will be able to stand for election to Washington during the next four years on a Republican ticket while at the same time disowning Trump. I don't see how that will be possible. I think anyone trying it will face a sea of Trump supporters chanting his name and demanding the candidate be locked up.