My 11 year old dog is Jonesing

[nvalleyvee]

I never had a problem with my dog at 10 years old. I married BTS and he started with the table scraps for her in the house. I always said it was going to be a real problem. Well D'OH . This dog ate my chicken thigh off my plate tonight - off the dining room table.!!! I told BTS the dog is grass - she is banned from the house until she re-learns her place in this house. I am top dog and she is not. Geez my dog is feeling unloved and out of sorts. She is scratching at every door to get in. Punishment is key here. The dog MUST relearn her place. My attitude is very bad - so very sad - she is still the dog and should be grateful I feed her and love her for her barking she does to protect our house.

[Pearl Harbor]

nvalleyvee wrote: I never had a problem with my dog at 10 years old. I married BTS and he started with the table scraps for her in the house. I always said it was going to be a real problem. Well D'OH . This dog ate my chicken thigh off my plate tonight - off the dining room table.!!! I told BTS the dog is grass - she is banned from the house until she re-learns her place in this house. I am top dog and she is not. Geez my dog is feeling unloved and out of sorts. She is scratching at every door to get in. Punishment is key here. The dog MUST relearn her place. My attitude is very bad - so very sad - she is still the dog and should be grateful I feed her and love her for her barking she does to protect our house.


A smart dog let's you think you are the Top Dog.

[nvalleyvee]

:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl The dog looses.

[Pearl Harbor]

nvalleyvee wrote: :yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl The dog looses.


But maybe he was really the top dog for those past 11 years!

[nvalleyvee]

but not now........

[nvalleyvee]

My 10 year old cat is gettting a hard on for her needs. I still think it hae to be close to putting them both down.

[nvalleyvee]

This is very sad for me - both my grrr animals are old. The dog is getting to the point she thinks she can run the house - that is the point I think she needs to be put down - she is getting possessive - I think violent. She is getting to a point I would NEVER trust another person to care take her. I would be afraid.

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

I personally would not put a dog down just because it was getting old .they have served you their whole life so why shouldnt they have some comfort in their old age, bad habits can be forgiven with training. my dog and cats will always have a home with me what ever happens and how ever grouchy they became - because i love them and couldnt imagine a home without animals

[abbey]

nvalleyvee wrote: I never had a problem with my dog at 10 years old. I married BTS and he started with the table scraps for her in the house. I always said it was going to be a real problem. Well D'OH . This dog ate my chicken thigh off my plate tonight - off the dining room table.!!! I told BTS the dog is grass - she is banned from the house until she re-learns her place in this house. I am top dog and she is not. Geez my dog is feeling unloved and out of sorts. She is scratching at every door to get in. Punishment is key here. The dog MUST relearn her place. My attitude is very bad - so very sad - she is still the dog and should be grateful I feed her and love her for her barking she does to protect our house.Poor old doggie! its BTS that should be put outside, he was the one that taught her it was acceptable to eat the table food.

Your dog "wont learn her place" by putting her outdoors, you're just putting her in an anxious situation, and in the process driving you all crazy with her crying, she must be wondering what the heck she's done wrong!

[greydeadhead]

WHAT... put down your trusted companions of 10 years.. Remember you are the one that brought a member into the household not them. The idea that you would even consider doing this is totally repugnant. In April I lost one of my best friends way to early and you are considering purposely doing this because you have confused her by changing her environment after 10 years... I would have been thrilled to have had 10 years with my girl.... shame....

[Accountable]

Get a pup. A family member has a golden retriever who's getting on in years. The got another golden pup because it's easier to train a pup when there's a role model around. Well, that pup brought new life and vigor into that old dog. The young'un bugs the old'un to play, but is respectful enough to know when to stop. It's a really cool thing to watch.

[valerie]

Boy, I don't even know where to start!!!



This is completely irresponsible behaviour on your part. Completely.

I can't hardly believe what I read except that I know it does happen.



I'm with abbey and grey on this one. And I wish BR were able to be

here because I know she'd have some insight.



Banning an 11 year old dog from the house is almost criminal. How could you?

How COULD you?



Please, please try some other methods of controlling her. An 11 year old

dog might also have health problems that you aren't aware of. She should

be vet checked.



Is the dog crate-trained? Put her in her crate before you have a meal.

Use baby gates to confine her to an area, hopefully where she can still

see you. Leash her to a solid object away from the dining area.



Here's a link to something you could try that really works:



http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm



I'm begging you to change your attitude, for that poor old girl's sake.

She deserves much better than being tossed outside.



And I'm sorry, Acc, I have to advise against getting a pup.

[ubetta]

nvalleyvee wrote: My attitude is very bad


That says it all for me!

[BabyRider]

Hey NV...I understand your frustration with this dog all of a sudden changing her attitude about her proper place in the heirarchy. Some gentle but FIRM correction should be able to correct it, though, but keep in mind that EVERYONE in the house must be consistent with the corrections, and praise. If BTS isn't going to comply, there is not much hope.

The puppy idea is probably not your best bet right now, as it will make your current dog feel the need to re-assert her own place that much more. Some things can be aided by the introduction of a puppy, but not a dominance issue.

Here's what I recommend:

At your mealtimes, make sure the dog is in the room with you, but on a very short leash, tethered where she can see you. Completely ignore her, no matter what she does and eat your meal in leisure. After you have finished, feed the dog, but only her food and only AFTER she has gone through a few commands, such as sit, down and stay. If she will not obey, she does not eat till later, when she will obey. She has to be made to understand that her food comes from you, and only when she has submitted to your wishes.

Also, please tell BTS that people food is NOT meant for dogs. EVER. You create a finicky eater, and the dog (as you have seen) will believe the food on your plate should be hers.

Also, Val's right again: Get her vet checked. A sudden behavioral change is often the result of some illness, even if there are no other symptoms. Ask your vet for a "pre-operative" or "general" blood screen. The general will catch most things, but the pre-op is a bit more in depth. A dog that age, there's any number of things that could cause this.

[ubetta]

I have always fed my dogs "people" food without any trouble. And I've owned quite a few dogs. They neither were finicky nor did they think my food was theirs. They might have tried to sneak something but were reprimanded firmly and didn't do it again. Just like kids.

I wouldn't be surprised if the dog is acting up a little as it seems the dog was there before the husband. That, or the chicken smelled REALLY good.

[BabyRider]

ubetta wrote: I have always fed my dogs "people" food without any trouble. And I've owned quite a few dogs. They neither were finicky nor did they think my food was theirs. They might have tried to sneak something but were reprimanded firmly and didn't do it again. Just like kids.

I wouldn't be surprised if the dog is acting up a little as it seems the dog was there before the husband. That, or the chicken smelled REALLY good.
Every single DVM that I ever worked with has always recommended dog food only, no people food. Many things in people food can be detrimental to a dog's overall health. Kibble is ALWAYS your best bet, with the exception being a vet recommended diet for specific reasons.

[ubetta]

I will agree to respectfully disagree. Just as there are different ways to bring up children, there are different ways to bring up dogs. All dogs are not the same, as I'm sure you know. Like my German Shep has a very sensitive stomach and skin. He can eat certain foods, can't eat others. My Golden can eat just about anything.

Both LOVE vegetables and digest them very well. The Golden loves fruit. Both, of course love meat. Real meat. Neither are the worse for it, neither behave badly because of it. I'm 50 years old and have had quite a few pets. All of them, including my cats, ate people food. All were/are taken to the vet and are healthy.

Just as people can have different diets so can animals. What do you figure they would be eating if you weren't around to feed them manufactured dog food?

[BabyRider]

ubetta wrote:

Like my German Shep has a very sensitive stomach and skin. He can eat certain foods, can't eat others.


As I said, when a vet recommends a particular diet for circumstances such as this; food allergies, etc.

All the dogs in all the clinics that I worked in, when fed a diet of people food as opposed to dog food, were more overweight, and had more digestive tract troubles than those kept on food made for dogs. Period.

[ubetta]

I guess that's why you see them. Because they are brought in for some ailment.

As I said, the German will react to some foods. That by no means he can't eat others, lol. Just like people. So, again, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[BabyRider]

Actually, most were brought in to have their yearly exam, vaccinations and heartworm test.

Yes, we do have to agree to disagree, and that's fine. I just want people who come in here looking for answers to questions about their pets to understand that your (and others) practices are not what is recommended by most vets. That's not a shot at you at all, ubetta, just a general statement.

[valerie]

If we weren't around to feed them manufactured food they'd probably be

eating more like this: (Known as the BARF diet)









http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm



And if we weren't around to give them manufactured, we wouldn't be around

to give them "people" food, either!



My only concern, ubetta, is a certain number of inexperienced dog people

tossing whatever out the back door to the dog because they read here

that it's "okay". Not a good scenario at all. You might have gotten away

with it, and you may have known others who did, but on the whole I

think it is a poor choice for the overall health of a dog.

[ubetta]

I would like to make sure that I am not misunderstood. I do not only feed my animals "people" food. But... if it's not good for the dog, what makes you think it's good for you? Dog food is a business. All of us, people and animals have allergies and sensitivies. That's a fact. Now. To think that animals are any different than people, to me, is rediculous. To think that the veterarian world is any different than the rest of the medical professions, is again, rediculous. It's a business. The idea, IMO, that an animal has to be only fed manufactured food...well, what can I say? There are reports about different dog food manufacturers. Personally, and again, this is only my opinion from experience, if I can eat it, so can my dog. Can every dog? No. Just like I have foods that my husband can't eat. To me, there is no difference. Again, what did animals do before there was a BUSINESS of animal food. We will have to agree to disagree. IMO there is no difference between which is better..margarine (manufactured and totally fake) vs butter. The powers that be went back and forth between that for years and years and years.

Regardless...the thread was originally about a dog who took food off the table and how it was being 'punished' vs. trained and what that cause may have been.

I'm afraid we've gotten off track from the original issue and the option of putting the dog to 'sleep' because it took a piece of chicken of the table. For me, it may possibly be jealousy, or that the food smelled awfully good and he likes that, or as someone suggested, there is something else going on. We were not speaking to a new owner...the dog is 11. Her option, to me, of putting the dog down is not a good one.

[BabyRider]

People keep saying things like "If it's ok for me, it must be ok for my dog." This is simply NOT the case. Not by a long shot. Dogs are not people, and people are not dogs. They have very different systems, and react differently to different diets.

Dogs turn chocolate into a substance toxic to them.. Their livers cannot process it.

Tylenol is deadly for a dog.

How can anyone think that what's ok for a person is AUTOMATICALLY good for their dog?? IT is NOT so.

Yes, the thread got off track, but it has taken a direction that could be harmful to a pet, and that I HAVE to address.

[valerie]

I didn't suggest that the OP was an inexperienced dog owner, I meant

other people who might see this thread. Lurkers, even.



I don't know what type of veterinarians you've come across but WAY

beyond just being a business I've known some of the most caring

people EVER.



Comparing your foods and your husband's versus the dog's food is apples

and oranges.



Tamsen is too old now but I used to occasionally give her "people" food

but never more than 1 or 2% of her total diet. If you think people food

is good for your dogs then I ask why DON'T you only feed them that?

You, too, resort to kibble, apparently.



What did they do before the "business" of dog food? An awful lot more of

them died an awful lot earlier. I know there are questionable companies

out there, but with just a little research good ones can be found.

Or, with commitment, an owner could do a BARF diet. That would be the

most natural of all.



Powers that be may have gone back and forth on butter versus margarine,

but *I* never did!



A certain amount of thread "drift" is common. This is from others MUCH more

familiar with forums than I.



I must add, ubetta, that even though we disagree, I do respect you.

After a recent experience here, I appreciate the mature back and forth.

[BabyRider]

valerie wrote: I must add, ubetta, that even though we disagree, I do respect you.

After a recent experience here, I appreciate the mature back and forth.
A refreshing change from recent activity, yes?



Same goes here, ubetta.

[ubetta]

I have no clue where tylenol came into this or why that is even brought up.

I feed my dogs dog food because its always been there. And that's the god's honest truth. If a designated product was not there, I would be feeding my animals a mixture of what I eat. And, I probably would be eating better myself because of it. I'm not saying they should only eat what is designated people food...although, I really have to tell you...after thinking about it, if it's not part of the manufactured screwed up crap we eat ourselves, why not? All I'm saying is that dog food, vets, people food,USDA, doctors are a business. You can't possibly deny that. They don't do this out of the kindness of their hearts. While we would like for that to be the case, it isn't. And that's not against vets in particular.

I don't believe in the pyramid of healthy foods for humans either.

So. While yes, I feed my dogs mainly a cross of dry and canned dog food, I see nothing wrong with supplementing their diet with 'people' food. My people food consists of fresh veggies, meat and fowl. If there were no such thing as dog food, they would be eating what I put in my system, modified by what their system can handle...no different than what I would do for a child or adult. Each animal and person's system, IMO, can deal with different things. When your dog is ill, are you telling me that a diet, after a day of no food, of rice and cook ground meat is not recommended? That's people food, is it not?

edit: ill meaning diarrhea?

[valerie]

It's been my experience that when a dog is "ill" (barring giardia and a

few other things I can think of) that it is because it has gotten

something not usually in its' diet. I have given Tamsen the boiled skinless

chicken breast, cottage cheese, rice diet on occasion. And I do suggest

baby carrots as a "treat" for overweight dogs. All "people" food. But as

a GENERAL RULE I think the best way to get the best nutrition for most

dogs and their owners is to feed them a well-balanced kibble. Or, if

the owner can make the commitment, the BARF diet.



And I see what you're saying about the "business" thing. But, that isn't

always a bad thing.



The vet I had for my last dog OUT OF THE KINDNESS OF HIS HEART,

(Thank you, Dr. Bill Barboni, DVM) came to put my dog down where

she was in her own backyard, on a warm fall day, where she was laying

on green grass, flowers all around her, birds chirping and a few

butterflies flying overhead. She was peaceful and unafraid. Dr. Bill even

put his arm around me, and told me it was okay to cry if I needed to.

Then he and the vet tech took my beautiful girl away... all this at

NO CHARGE WHATSOEVER. Tell me that's only a business, if you can.

I don't think so.

[abbey]

valerie wrote:



The vet I had for my last dog OUT OF THE KINDNESS OF HIS HEART,

(Thank you, Dr. Bill Barboni, DVM) came to put my dog down where

she was in her own backyard, on a warm fall day, where she was laying

on green grass, flowers all around her, birds chirping and a few

butterflies flying overhead. She was peaceful and unafraid. Dr. Bill even

put his arm around me, and told me it was okay to cry if I needed to.

Then he and the vet tech took my beautiful girl away... all this at

NO CHARGE WHATSOEVER. Tell me that's only a business, if you can.

I don't think so.Am i the only one that cried when i read this? :-1

[valerie]

abbey wrote: Am i the only one that cried when i read this? :-1


I cried when I typed it... and it was 16 years ago...



Ah me. Guess we're just big ol' softies, eh?!?!?



:-4

[BabyRider]

ubetta wrote: I have no clue where tylenol came into this or why that is even brought up.
I brought it up to prove a point: That point being that anything good for a human is not necessarily good for a dog, even though people continue to believe it. I thought I'd said it, several times, before this.

The question of what they'd eat if dog food wasn't available has been answered already, too. Are you being obtuse?



Val, your story brought back many memories of doing just that very thing. Vets and technicians alike do bond with their patients after seeing them for their whole lives. We would bend over backwards to do things like that for the clients we knew well. I put down many dogs in their yards or beds, just so they could be at home.

I recall one case with a very old cat, named "Lucifer." This cat was 22 when I met him, (only 3 years older than me!) and he'd gotten a URI. We put him on IV fluids, and antibiotics, but it was pretty clear he wasn't happy in the clinic. I gathered up all the things I needed to maintain an IV line at his home and made three trips a day, 7 days a week for 2 weeks to his owner's house so he could get the care he needed, but still be at home. I went on my breaks, and at lunch time, when I was off the clock.

In another instance, I had a very young lab in renal failure that needed to be checked on frequently and I left Thanksgiving dinner at my mom's to be with him while the clinic was closed.

No, people that get into the line of work sure don't do it for the money. I've yet to meet a vet or a tech who is rich, or even close to it.

[nvalleyvee]

I'm so hard hearted the dog was banished from the house just for the night. BTS has been put on standing orders not to feed her from the table or he may be outside for the night. I did change her food though and YES I mixed the new food with old food. She seems to be better now. I bought her some cow hip bones from the store because I felt so bad.

[BabyRider]

They can make you feel as guilty as your own kids, can't they?!

[nvalleyvee]

I was very mad but my animals have always been a part of the family. Did I ever tell you about the 450 pound Duroc pigs I had............when they were wieners they used come in and out of the dog door and watch TV with us. They got so big all they could do was stick their heads in the door and snort. Ever try getting a 450 pound pig out of the house that didn't want to leave?? :-4

[BabyRider]

nvalleyvee wrote: I was very mad but my animals have always been a part of the family. Did I ever tell you about the 450 pound Duroc pigs I had............when they were wieners they used come in and out of the dog door and watch TV with us. They got so big all they could do was stick their heads in the door and snort. Ever try getting a 450 pound pig out of the house that didn't want to leave?? :-4
Oh geez....I have GOT to hear that story!!!

[nvalleyvee]

BabyRider wrote: Oh geez....I have GOT to hear that story!!!


These pigs were great. We got them at 2 months old. The kids loved them. They used to come in - lay on the living room rug and watch TV with us. We'd put them in their pen at night. When they got to be 450 pounds we made bridles for them - hackamores - and the kids would ride them around the 3 acres. They got waaaaay too big to be in the house. The pigs (Christine and TJ) were very upset at being outcasted from the house so they would stick their heads in the dog door and SNORT SNORT SNORT. I still have pictures.

[BTS]

OK here goes.................

I feed the Mutt table scraps................



BUTTTTTT

BUTTTTTTTT



It is ALWAYS on the back porch outside.

I dare NV to post differently.



The dogs name is Kala and when I walk in the door from work I am attacked with licks and affection from her. She is so happy to see me.

I only read down to BTS is the one who needs to be put outside by abby and was welll sorta (no REALLY) pissed. (Not her Abby's fault I know as she only had a part of the story).

How does that go?

There is my side your side and the truth?..........

So please NV put the truth out here........

Signed

Your Luvin, Scap feeddin muttt,

BTS

[BabyRider]

nvalleyvee wrote: These pigs were great. We got them at 2 months old. The kids loved them. They used to come in - lay on the living room rug and watch TV with us. We'd put them in their pen at night. When they got to be 450 pounds we made bridles for them - hackamores - and the kids would ride them around the 3 acres. They got waaaaay too big to be in the house. The pigs (Christine and TJ) were very upset at being outcasted from the house so they would stick their heads in the dog door and SNORT SNORT SNORT. I still have pictures.
That is priceless. I would LOVE to see those pics if you're inclined. Those great big chubby faces are SOOOO cute!!!!

[nvalleyvee]

Guilty - guilty - guilty. The mutt is Kayla and has a real affinity for BTS. I admit jealousy. :-5

[BabyRider]

nvalleyvee wrote: The mutt is Kayla and has a real affinity for BTS.
There's no accounting for taste.



I'M KIDDING, I'M KIDDING!!!!! It's hard for me to resist those open doors. :yh_bigsmi

[BTS]

BabyRider wrote: There's no accounting for taste.



I'M KIDDING, I'M KIDDING!!!!! It's hard for me to resist those open doors. :yh_bigsmi


Speakin of taste.......... Kayla told me that thigh tasted MIGHTY good........

Wasn't that the whole premise of this thread?

LOL



Oh and if I banned her out for a week outa the house, she would have been back in the house BEFORE morning...........

Tough ain't I?

[valerie]

You know, when my dad was a little boy, (he's about to turn 79!) he had

pigs and one time he called the "doctor" and said "Come quick, Poopidoop

is havin' her baby" well, the doc raced out only to find out Poopidoop was

the PIG.



:-6