what if

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:49 am

How to become unpopular in just one thread - well we have had quite a few discussions about race, religion ,gay marrage and racism recently an it got me thinking about mixed marriage or what if one of your children wanted to convert after marriage to say becoming a muslim.I for one know nothing about the muslim religion and if im completely honest would have reservations because i dont understand this way of life and again if i honest dont like the way women are treated.Im probably gonner get lynched for this but hey thats life .

venus · Post by **venus** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:49 am

Ok heres the deal.

Myself and my partner are from different cultures, religions and opposite ends of Britian (which actually caused more than a few giggles, him a southerner and me a northener)

We have been together years and plan to marry soon, there is no big deal about the religion. He loves me for me ans vica versa. Neither of our families has expected either of us to convert..

If it was such a big deal to them it could have caused issue, but as my partner said, he's marrying me and not my family.

We do however have the same sort of goals in life, morals etc, and that is what l feel counts.

I do understand however that others are deeply religious and could not or would not marry outside of their faith.

This is their right and choice, but so far it has not affected me. I also would not mind if my children were doing the same thing.

venus · Post by **venus** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:06 am

Sorry if you got the impression l was pulling you up on that Arnold l wasn't. I understand what you are saying about the times we are in etc. It is such a shame, feel like we are going backwards and not forwards in many ways...

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:14 am

ArnoldLayne wrote: I have made it known throughout this forum about my aborhance to racism and would not bat an eyelid should one of my children choose to marry outside my so called race (ie black or Asian)
You're a black Asian? I can't correspond with you anymore. :p

I'm married to a beautiful Japanese lady. My father, whom has not been my guardian since I was 9, said he disagreed with any interracial marriages because of the bigotry the grandkids would face. Of course, he sold his suburban home and moved to the country when the third black family moved into the neighborhood.

It's always a crapshoot when someone makes a controversial decision. It would have to eat parents alive inside. Of course it would be better if they alway chose along socially acceptable lines, but that's not always the case.

When such instances occur, the parents have to decide whether they will give their loyalty to their children or their bigotry. I don't understand how one can choose the latter.

actionfigurestepho · Post by **actionfigurestepho** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:31 am

I know a few couples where one partner converted to Catholocism to get married to their sweetie, even though they didn't really believe in Catholocism. That kind of irritates me. Especially when one of the women told she hates the Catholic church and doesn't believe in a lot of the restrictions at the exact moment she was writing a check for her youngest daughter to enroll in Catholic high school. I thought it was a little screwed up.

If you don't believe in a religion you shouldn't convert to it just to get married. I know some religions say you shouldn't marry outside the faith, but if someone's converting just on paper isn't that just as bad as "marrying outside the faith" because they don't truly believe in the religion? How is pretending to convert any better? I had an ex boyfriend change his "beliefs" to join my church for the sole purpose of controlling me, not because his heart or mind changed. To me it was incredibly offensive. It was kind of like he was mocking what I believe in just so he could tighten the collar a little. Conversion shouldn't be taken lightly.

Now if someone is honestly changing their beliefs as a consequence of getting to know the other person, that's totally different.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:54 am

I agree with Action, I would have problems if my cjildren changed religions just because it would make their partner happy, not for their own beliefs. I think I would have to be told why they would do this, since the family background is full of preachers and missionaries, many who died while in Christian service.

TenneseeGirl · Post by **TenneseeGirl** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:56 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: I have made it known throughout this forum about my aborhance to racism and would not bat an eyelid should one of my children choose to marry outside my so called race (ie black or Asian)

I would add however, that the conversion to another religion other than the principle one to which our countries revolve, can be fraught with problems especially in the present climate.

THAT I would have great reservations and concerns over. Not because I am anti Muslim, because principally I think the Muslim faith is a peaceful one. The highjacking of Islam, however, by fanatical factions, tends me to be very critical of any genuine, peaceful reasons, why an individual would want to convert in these radical , fundamentalist times

ok this is where i have to speak up. the islamic faith is one of peace and understanding. They tend to have more rigid phillosiphies of what is morally acceptable and not. But other then that there is no cause to be concerned.

One bad apple spoiles the bunch? is this what you are prescribing to? the majority of islam is not fanaticle. I have a hard time understanding how one such as yourself can be so accepting of one thing and so snood about another. that when it comes down to it is the same principle. These muslims that want nothing but to worship in peace and live out their lives now live in fear because of what a few people did. It is unfair to deem that reputation upon a whole religion.

If we did that then i would still consider all the christians murdering schmucks(crusaids). All africans are gangbangers. All asians are good at math. All pegans are sex crazed. These types of stereotypes are assinine(sp?) this is how hate and fear spread! I disagree highley with your statement. I find that especially in the time of fundamentalists (the Grahm family) we have to try exceptionally hard to find our common ground and realize that when it comes right down to it we are all struggaling to find our place on this earth.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:25 pm

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: How to become unpopular in just one thread - well we have had quite a few discussions about race, religion ,gay marrage and racism recently an it got me thinking about mixed marriage or what if one of your children wanted to convert after marriage to say becoming a muslim.I for one know nothing about the muslim religion and if im completely honest would have reservations because i dont understand this way of life and again if i honest dont like the way women are treated.Im probably gonner get lynched for this but hey thats life .

I don't care who my kid marries - as long as they love and respect each other. I'll be damned though if someone steals my Grandkids to a place where I can't see them, love them or hold them.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:19 pm

I thought ACC's comments about the "time" being important was very perceptive.

I like to think of myself as infinitely tolerant. After all, I grew up as the only Anglo-American boy on the Blackfoot reservation in Montana. Later, I lived in the "inner city" of Denver where my mother taught. Again, I was the only Anglo-American for miles, everyone else being Black-American. When I got older I moved to New Mexico and now all my friends are either Hispanic-American, or Native American.

The truth, however, is that even I am subject to the basest human emotions. If my son came to me and asked to marry a Muslim girl....I would disown him and ban him from our family.

I guess that puts me in the same category as the people who incarcerated Japanese Americans in WWII.

(sigh) The truth hurts. I hate this thread.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:52 pm

No, you are an honest man, Jives. It is just a difficult question to answer, and every individual is different. I know I would not be able to rectify my children changing religions, when my father died on the mission field while in the service of the Lord.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:00 am

Ok if we are all crazed BNP supporters for questioning the muslim faith - how do you feel about an arranged marriage. I would bet there would be more oppersition within the muslim faith if a child wanted to wed some body of their own choice . I would also say that a muslim would rather their child marry somebody within their own religion..so why is that not racist too

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:43 am

I do not agree with arranged marriages, in any faith. The forcing a life-time spouse on another is not beneficial, both mentally, or spiritually among any faith that I know of. Do not use the maxim, "Children obey their parents," because further on it says "Do not try a child to hard." That would try any person, to marry a mystery person.

TenneseeGirl · Post by **TenneseeGirl** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:01 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: TG, First of all let me say that I agree with everything you say.

I make no apologies for being totally, 100%, selfish in the way I care and protect my children and have always been concerned, without being judgmental (well maybe not in the early teen years ) about their proposed girl/boy friends. My daughter had an Asian boyfriend with a Sikh upbringing for 5 years. A delightful, polite and generous young man. His religion was never an issue, ever. If she had decided to convert to Sihkhism, she would have had her parents blessing in bucketfuls.

If you still want to regard me as being intolerant then there is not much else I can say. I really dont think I am. No. I know I am not. Just protective, given the present hate filled, highly charged, climate

I believe that every religion can be dangerous when taken to an extreme. I also think that it is sad that muslims are todays antagonists. If my daughter (if i had one) came home with anyone of a different religion i would not be frightfull. I would only react if they started spewing about beliefs such as "bombing abortion clinics is righteous" or that the "suicide bombers had every right" or that "we are going to join the leader on the spaceship after we drink the red koolaid" type of rhetoric would i be concerned. I think any generalization that is directed toward a religion is unjust at best. I am guilty of it. As i am sure everyone is. I do not believe that you are intolerant in most aspects. I respect your oppinions on most of the posts that i have read. I just think that the reason that muslims might be sympathizing is because we leave them no choice. You get called a theif enough. You become a Theif.

jimsaysletitgo · Post by **jimsaysletitgo** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:36 am

I love the expression "Listen to the words...........Look at the behavior." My experience of "so-called" Christians has led me to question my own beliefs as one.I think that the behavior of someone reflects their true beliefs. Can a Christian support a war based on lies? Can a Christian support the destruction of our environment? Do other faiths support these things? Every major religion I am familiar with is based on love and family. Regardless of what a person describes themselves as religiously, it is the living out of that religion that says who they are. I'd forget the "label" and look at the "life."

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:47 am

jimsaysletitgo wrote: I love the expression "Listen to the words...........Look at the behavior." My experience of "so-called" Christians has led me to question my own beliefs as one.I think that the behavior of someone reflects their true beliefs. Can a Christian support a war based on lies? Can a Christian support the destruction of our environment? Do other faiths support these things? Every major religion I am familiar with is based on love and family. Regardless of what a person describes themselves as religiously, it is the living out of that religion that says who they are. I'd forget the "label" and look at the "life."
Gee, what about "judge not" and all that?

TenneseeGirl · Post by **TenneseeGirl** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:29 am

ArnoldLayne wrote: Again I agree,

I dont think I'm generalising, however, when a majority hold a view to which I find abhorant. Whatever their (Muslims) thoughts on world events in the last God knows how many years, advocating the use of violance and justifying it as the word of Allah is reprehensable to put it mildly.

Choice ? What do you mean we leave them no choice ? We all have the choice of free will , especially in a democracy, a free will to denounce the violence and a responsibility to speak out publicly against it. The silence at times is deafening.

ok Arnold, maybe it is that i dont know enough about the brittan culture to agrue that point. I do agree with what you say also. I tend to take the devils advocate position on alot of things. Sometimes i get atop my soap box and i forget when it is time to get down. I Definatly agree that Holly War no matter in the name of whichever God is rediculous.