<t>This is becoming an interesting conversation, forcing me to face many things - as I agree with both Ted and Downag at different points. <br/>
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It makes me ask - what if the Bible is wrong in different details about Jesus? Does it change my relationship with Him? Nope. What if its right? Does ...

<t>I will have to check this out too - however - I still don't see why we would believe Jesus would fit into an historical profile when He wasn't a first century man - but the Son of God who existed before the world. (Unless, of course, you don't believe that He existed before He was born as the Son ...

<r>Some how I knew you would reference a book - lol - <br/>
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I will check it out - but I do have to say - I don't think that we can look at the people of the first century and make any determinations about a historical Jesus considering Jesus existed before the first century before He came in ...

<r>Ted - I have to say - I enjoy talking with you. <E>:)</E><br/>
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Even at that we must be careful. None of the words put into Jesus mouth by John can be traced back to the historical Jesus. They are what the early church had come to believe about him. In fact about 85% of the words attributed ...

<t>Within those copies there were some 400,000 variants of the NT alone. We have no idea if we have anything close to what the authors were saying.<br/>
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I would say it is unfair to say we have 'no idea' - as even with all the variants, the basics remain the same - don't they? I mean ...

<t>It has been said, that the "word of God" is pregnant, meaning new things are/can be/will be realised as things progress, either in time for all or the growing of the believer, individually.<br/>
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I don't know how many times I have read the Bible now, but I can say that everytime I ...

indeed - in the end it will all be clear - I guess we should be thankful that salvation rests on the Son of God - and not all the things people have built up around Him. :rolleyes:

<t>I agree with Ted here - I think Paul and the Apostles might be a little surprised at how Christians have declared their letters to be sacred, but more significantly - Christians have declared their writings infallible -we do know that Paul did intend for his letters to be read in more than one ...

<t>if what you said was true, then all would convert to Christianity<br/>
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Forgive me bro - but I believe a HUGE reason so many are rejecting Jesus (today) is because the religion has become so corrupted. Jesus wants His follows to be one - as He and the Father are one - but with ...

great point Ted!

I've often wondered if the influence of the Holy Spirit was our conscience - written on our hearts - I tend to agree with your take on it.

Ted - you may be right - it's just my opinion - I mean - Jesus did not teach the Law as it is known - did He? Therefore -the Law we know about that differs seems to me to be corrupt when held up to the truth of Jesus. I could be wrong, who knows -

Galatians rocks - I agree!

Start the thread and I will join you happily in that discussion, downag!

<t>When Jesus amends or ignores Jewish rabbinical scripture he is contradicting his own teachings - Matt. 5:17; Matt. 23:2-3; John 7:19; Mark 1:44 Luke 16:17. <br/>
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With concern to Mt 5:17, Luke 16:17, I believe you are assuming that we have the proper Jewish traditions ...

<t>Does this mean all the sayings which were attributed to Jesus, but in fact were taken from "the books of the Jewish religion", reworded by the authors of the gospels, and put in to the mouth of Jesus, do not apply to real christians? <br/>
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Not as I see it - I view the Jewish ...

<r>Well - before I answer that - let me say that I put Jesus first. He is my teacher and master - not the books of the Jewish religion. With that being said, what Jesus said trumps all else. I know that may sound narrow minded - and maybe it is - but if I am truly devoted to Christ - than that's how ...

hi memebias -

I personally do believe in a fallen angel who is personified as the 'devil' in our reality.

<t>While I am in complete agreement with downag -I can say that I respect what Ted is saying too. If Satan IS real - then he has certainly convinced many that he isn't real.<br/>
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Perhaps the bigger issue is that whether a person believes Satan is a truly fallen angel or just a metaphor - does ...

<t>Take a look through the Old Testament, read the occasions where God and Satan are mentioned together and ask yourself who comes across as the bad guy.<br/>
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But that isn't the point of the question - the question is really - is Satan a fallen angel - or a metaphor for ...

<t>Satan is a word and a mythological creature created to explain evil in the world. That was the only way that the ancients could grasp that concept.<br/>
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This is an interesting thought - I mean - while I can see what you are saying - there is plenty of scripture that would disagree ...

<t>'The lord of hosts' is a common phrase used to identify God in the OT if I am not mistaken, though many translations do not use the phrase...<br/>
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As for the name 'Lucifer' - I just have to speak up - because its a pet peeve of mine - but the name Lucifer was created through the Latin ...

<r>Blind obedience isn't something I can relate to, (and I don't bash anyone who can accept it) and I don't believe I need anyone to command me on how to live my life. <br/>
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My obedience isn't really blind though. It does take a leap of faith to begin, but once you have begun, you see ...

<r>I have to wonder at your wording above: "simply follow the command to love others"....I have a hard time being commanded to do a damn thing, especially love anyone, even more especially, love my enemies.<br/>
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I hear ya - BabyRider - it can be difficult - but as far as it being a ...

<t>But of all the religions - so few people simply follow the command to love others - especially our enemies....<br/>
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the only ones I can think of from the 20th century are Ghandi and Martin Luther King - Im sure there are others - but how many - a dozen? over a hundred years? - pickings are ...

<t>The point is the pagans who also developed this philosophy didn’t mention a reward of any kind. <br/>
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Perhaps that was one of the reasons God HAD to send His Son? Someone had to set the world straight!<br/>
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there are going to be a lot a disappointed people who think ...

<r>I thought the question was - 'Is salvation a reward?' -<br/>
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There is a 'reward' mentioned with concern to loving your enemy, but it isn't identified as 'salvation' as far as I know. <br/>
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A classic No True Scotsman argument. Who decides what 'true' Christianity is? Or even what a ...

<t>I don't think of salvation as a reward - it is a gift of grace! The pleasure of following Jesus is rewarding within itself - the only reward IS in the action itself. I am not claiming ALL or even MOST Christians are doing what they should, but true Christianity as Christ taught is not much like ...

<r>All three share the same God? I would challenge this in the sense of what is taught.<br/>
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Jews have it written that they are to take an eye for an eye - <br/>
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Exodus 21:23-25 - you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn ...

I agree - maybe he will learn that from ya all - but he didn't learn it from me - lol. Thanks for the greeting. I look forward to many great conversations here.

You will find serveandsave is very long winded - but he means well. I speak from experience.