CAROL McCain- what John doesn't want you to know!

cars · Post by **cars** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:08 pm

Just received this email about Carol McCain, so checked it out on Snopes, & Snopes says it's true. So . . .

http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/carol.asp

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:17 pm

I saw McCain on the reverand's show claiming "I'm sorry my first marriage didn't work out". Well, no wonder. You left her.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:47 am

qsducks;1000120 wrote: I saw McCain on the reverand's show claiming "I'm sorry my first marriage didn't work out". Well, no wonder. You left her.
If you're going to use quotation marks make sure your quote is accurate.

From the transcript

http://rickwarrennews.com/transcript/ci ... ipt-04.txt

Q. [...] WHAT'S BEEN YOUR GREATEST MORAL FAILURE AND WHAT HAS BEEN THE -- WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE GREATEST MORAL FAILURE OF AMERICA?

A. THEY DON'T GET ANY EASIER?

Q. NO THEY DON'T GET ANY EASIER.

A. MY GREATEST MORAL FAILING, AND I HAVE BEEN A VERY IMPERFECT PERSON IS THE FAILURE OF MY FIRST MARRIAGE. IT'S MY GREATEST MORAL FAILURE.

QUINNSCOMMENTARY · Post by **QUINNSCOMMENTARY** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:25 am

cars;1000069 wrote: Just received this email about Carol McCain, so checked it out on Snopes, & Snopes says it's true. So . . .

http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/carol.asp

Smacks of the Swift Boat attacks, let's keep this garbage out of here, for either candidate. If America can dismiss an adulterer in the Oval Office, I hardly think that what any candidate has done in their past matters much these days.

I for one have lost faith in the integrity of any politician.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:33 am

It goes to integrity.I think it matters a heck of a lot. Dude wants my vote, you can bet I'm going to be a harsh judge.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:23 am

Isn't divorce legal in America? How many other Americans have failed first marraiges? I didn't realize that adultary was a criminal act, do you use Sharia law now? Isn't it a little harsh to judge this man's political ability simply based on the fact that he has a failled marraige? I doubt that when the Chinese and the Arabs come to discuss the terms they will be expecting for the new monetary regime we are going to have to build, (using their capital) they won't be asking John McCain (if he is president) about how his first marraige worked out. I would think that the fact that he has had some failures and is man enough to discuss them, makes him more human, not less, and probably therefore better qualified than that sanctimonious, ignorant, moronic frat boy you have at present to lead your country. I think you should be a little more realistic about your leaders, and vote based on their ability to lead the government effectively, not to be pope, king, kind uncle, superman, and politcial president all in one go.

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:44 am

Galbally;1000421 wrote: Isn't divorce legal in America? How many other Americans have failed first marraiges? I didn't realize that adultary was a criminal act, do you use Sharia law now? Isn't it a little harsh to judge this man's political ability simply based on the fact that he has a failled marraige? I doubt that when the Chinese and the Arabs come to discuss the terms they will be expecting for the new monetary regime we are going to have to build, (using their capital) they won't be asking John McCain (if he is president) about how his first marraige worked out. I would think that the fact that he has had some failures and is man enough to discuss them, makes him more human, not less, and probably therefore better qualified than that sanctimonious, ignorant, moronic frat boy you have at present to lead your country. I think you should be a little more realistic about your leaders, and vote based on their ability to lead the government effectively, not to be pope, king, kind uncle, superman, and politcial president all in one go.

yeah, that's what I was going to say!

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:00 am

Isn't it a little harsh to judge this man's political ability simply based on the fact that he has a failled marraige?

The "failed marriage" doesn't bother me. It's the fact he said for "better or worse" and then bailed on her during "not so bad."

Adultery though is illegal in some states still but I don't know of the law ever being enforced. Although I think it should be.

Short and sweet I don't want a man who would shirk his wife in her time of need in charge of representing me and my country.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:10 am

QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1000299 wrote: Smacks of the Swift Boat attacks, let's keep this garbage out of here, for either candidate. If America can dismiss an adulterer in the Oval Office, I hardly think that what any candidate has done in their past matters much these days.

I for one have lost faith in the integrity of any politician. Waahaaayyy :wah:

I said it before on another post. Clinton in the eyes of Britain was a great economist. Yep, poor Hilary. Public humiliation etc etc. In Britain, we don't care about McCain's sexual past. He's in his senior years. does anyone really expect the guy not to have personal history??

British press are reporting on McCain as the new President & outstandingly in his favour. The election is the talk in every British bar in the land.

We care about the bailout. Gordon Brown flying out to America to have crisis talks with Bush. We care about the economy, The threat to Isreal from Iran, the future of our troops in Iraq etc etc.

We don't care who McCain shagged & left. It's called Priority Global issue's.

Go McCain, take Obama out, if not for America's sake, then do it for ours.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:13 am

The threat to Isreal from Iran, the future of our troops in Iraq etc etc.

As an Arizonan I've never liked McCain as a senator.

And when I heard him say we'd not leave Iraq even if it took a hundred years, he lost me. He should have lost you too if you want to be rid of this war.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:15 am

RedGlitter;1001011 wrote: As an Arizonan I've never liked McCain as a senator.

And when I heard him say we'd not leave Iraq even if it took a hundred years, he lost me. He should have lost you too if you want to be rid of this war.

I heard him loud and clear on that Red. Lost me too.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:30 am

qsducks;1001019 wrote: I heard him loud and clear on that Red. Lost me too.

And yet people are still supporting him thinking because he was a POW that he'll use temperance with the war. I see him as just a common war mongering Republican. I'm not saying Obama's the answer and I support neither so this is not my preference talking but rather just me saying "are you crazy?!" :wah:

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:33 am

RedGlitter;1001089 wrote: And yet people are still supporting him thinking because he was a POW that he'll use temperance with the war. I see him as just a common war mongering Republican. I'm not saying Obama's the answer and I support neither so this is not my preference talking but rather just me saying "are you crazy?!" :wah:

Even crazier and this is just MO was him picking Palin. Apparently, the right wing loves her but are the biggest hypocrites. If Obama's daughter was pregnant, I think his election would be over.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:42 am

qsducks;1001098 wrote: Even crazier and this is just MO was him picking Palin. Apparently, the right wing loves her but are the biggest hypocrites. If Obama's daughter was pregnant, I think his election would be over.

Agreed about Obama. I actually am not the least bit aflutter over that girl's pregnancy. But I mean to tell you, that Palin is a scary one to me. I am betting McCain won't make it all through the four years once the woes of presidency hit him and he ages even more and I know I don't want some animal slaughtering, Roe v.Wade threatening crackpot like Palin running the country. Oh Heck No! Someone (actually several guys) got all over me for saying this but I'll say it again, she's a disgrace to womanhood and a very scary character to think about having in office.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:54 pm

RedGlitter;1001011 wrote: As an Arizonan I've never liked McCain as a senator.

And when I heard him say we'd not leave Iraq even if it took a hundred years, he lost me. He should have lost you too if you want to be rid of this war. Did you like Obama's interview about his feelings to Iran? British press describe McCain as "The Vietnam Hero". Why do you think they do that most of the time?

I repeat myself from another post but i want a Prime Minister/ President who is strong enough to say "Bring it on". Obama talks of taking on Iran, he won't, he hasn't the balls & Iran knows it. Sometimes the best form of Defence is attack. A country will not risk getting nuked if they have a strong world leader who confronts the aggressor. Do you think global terrorism is going to stop at 9/11 & The London Tube bomings? What do you think global terrorism is, if it's not already a war? Iran needs to know that McCain will go to war if we are to prevent more lost lives. McCain has the balls to do it and Iran needs to know he will do it.

Worst case scenario--- I repeat myself. --- Obama gets in. Iran carries out it's threat and nukes Israel. America and Britain nuke Iran. Russia threatens to nuke America. Britain joins America. China sides with Russia. Russia nukes Poland. Russia invades Eastern Europe. Just as an extra --- The Taliban sieze control of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal.

We know about useless wars. Thatcher took us to war over a lump of rock off the Argentian Coast. The Falkland Islands-- Population an estimated 10 in Port Stanley.

Iraq is not a pointless war. They invaded Kuwait illegally. They gassed thousands of their own people, the kurds. That was biological gas, biological warfare. Mustard gas, used by Hitler. Iraq had "Ethnic Cleansing" policies on it's own people. no different from Hitler and the Holocaust. Iraq did and still does harbour terrorists connected to 9/11. Iraq bombed Israel with scud missiles. Iraq was a corrupt regime that took Western aid out of the mouths of their own starving children & babies. What about the rights of the children of Iraq in future generations? Do they matter? They do to me.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:04 pm

In many ways Iraq certainly is a pointless war. If you're so concerned about Iraqi babies, how about starting a war in (pick a country) and "help" those people too?

I won't vote for a 70 year old war mongering dumbass just so Obama doesn't win. That's stupid voting and I won't do it.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:41 pm

My point was not that McCain is either a good or bad candidate, thats a judgement for American voters to make in the election. I like some things about McCain, some not so much and Mrs Palin leaves me pretty cold I have to say, Obama also seems interesting, but he also has flaws, (in general its an interesting election, the most interesting for years) but its not my decision to make, its only an outside opinion so ignore that.

What I am saying is that the man's (McCains) first marriage just failed (for whatever reason), he didn't murder anyone, or get caught stealing money. This should not be an election issue, he is also a private citizen and is entitled to a private life and a past, he is also entitled to be happily married now, its very intolerant to not accept that the man has the same rights as everyone else, and they don't impinge on his ability to do his job.

In our societies you are allowed to have a life after your marriage has failed, I can tell you that foreigners are more concerned whether the next president is going to act responsibly, live up to his administrations international commitments, only go to war if it is absolutely necessary, and also treat foreign (but allied) nations with some level of respect, (also perhaps learn to speak English with the vocabulary of an educated adult as well), which are all things that Mr Bush has signally failed to do.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:49 pm

RedGlitter;1001252 wrote: In many ways Iraq certainly is a pointless war. If you're so concerned about Iraqi babies, how about starting a war in (pick a country) and "help" those people too?

I won't vote for a 70 year old war mongering dumbass just so Obama doesn't win. That's stupid voting and I won't do it. Let's pick AMERICA. As well as Iraq babie's, i care about the widows & orphaned children in AMERICA when Islamic terrorists blew you up.

Let's pick ENGLAND. As well as Iraq babie's i care about widows & orphaned Children when Islamic Terrorists blew us up, and are still plotting to do so in the future.

Let's talk about SCOTLAND when Islamic terrorists TRIED to blow them up.

Terrorism is a global war & at present, Iran is the biggest threat to American & British security. We can nuke Iran, no sweat. Poland has your missiles primed with Gordon Brown's backing. He may be a scottish twat on home policies but he would push that button, make no mistake, and so would his opposition if they get in.

Look around the world. It's stuffed full of American & British military bases, primed.

Do we want that?

If we didn't care about future generations of children all over the world, Why is it that America & Great Britain are in nearly every country in the world?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:56 pm

Look at Gordon Brown's face. Ever seen him smile? No cheesy election grin for the campaign trail from him. No big play up to the camera's like Obama's ridiculous posturing & posing.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:58 pm

oscar;1001318 wrote: Let's pick AMERICA. As well as Iraq babie's, i care about the widows & orphaned children in AMERICA when Islamic terrorists blew you up.

Let's pick ENGLAND. As well as Iraq babie's i care about widows & orphaned Children when Islamic Terrorists blew us up, and are still plotting to do so in the future.

Let's talk about SCOTLAND when Islamic terrorists TRIED to blow them up.

Terrorism is a global war & at present, Iran is the biggest threat to American & British security. We can nuke Iran, no sweat. Poland has your missiles primed with Gordon Brown's backing. He may be a scottish twat on home policies but he would push that button, make no mistake, and so would his opposition if they get in.

Look around the world. It's stuffed full of American & British military bases, primed.

Do we want that?

If we didn't care about future generations of children all over the world, Why is it that America & Great Britain are in nearly every country in the world?

Because we care about the power and influence that our military presence gives us.

Tell me, what do you see as the prime cause of terrorism?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:03 pm

Bryn Mawr;1001333 wrote: Because we care about the power and influence that our military presence gives us.

Tell me, what do you see as the prime cause of terrorism? Opposing religious beliefs. Extremism of those beliefs. The wish to cause death & destruction in the name of religion. Greed, power, money. Corrupt Dictatorship who murder their own people.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:09 pm

The only bomb you have to worry about, is the bomb with your name written on it.

My dad WW11 Spitfire Pilot.

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:09 pm

cars;1000069 wrote: Just received this email about Carol McCain, so checked it out on Snopes, & Snopes says it's true. So . . .

http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/carol.asp

I had wondered what happened to McCains first marriage. A sad, all too common, story.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:11 pm

Galbally;1001308 wrote: My point was not that McCain is either a good or bad candidate, thats a judgement for American voters to make in the election. I like some things about McCain, some not so much and Mrs Palin leaves me pretty cold I have to say, Obama also seems interesting, but he also has flaws, (in general its an interesting election, the most interesting for years) but its not my decision to make, its only an outside opinion so ignore that.

What I am saying is that the man's (McCains) first marriage just failed (for whatever reason), he didn't murder anyone, or get caught stealing money. This should not be an election issue, he is also a private citizen and is entitled to a private life and a past, he is also entitled to be happily married now, its very intolerant to not accept that the man has the same rights as everyone else, and they don't impinge on his ability to do his job.

In our societies you are allowed to have a life after your marriage has failed, I can tell you that foreigners are more concerned whether the next president is going to act responsibly, live up to his administrations international commitments, only go to war if it is absolutely necessary, and also treat foreign (but allied) nations with some level of respect, (also perhaps learn to speak English with the vocabulary of an educated adult as well), which are all things that Mr Bush has signally failed to do.

I understand where you're coming from Galbally. All I'm saying is (for me) if a man bails on the most important relationship in his life because things got inconvenient or she was maimed, a woman he made a lifelong vow to, how could I possibly believe he could stick it out with his country through thick and thin?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:14 pm

oscar;1001342 wrote: Opposing religious beliefs. Extremilism of those beliefs. The wish to cause death & destruction in the name of religion. Greed, power, money. Corrupt Dictatorship who murder their own people.

Can you give me an example of how a corrupt dictator who murdered his own people was a prime cause of terrorism?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:27 pm

Bryn Mawr;1001367 wrote: Can you give me an example of how a corrupt dictator who murdered his own people was a prime cause of terrorism?
Iraq -- The Kurds

Pakistan training camps for deluded young muslim Brits.

The Taliban-- Afghanistan -- Biggest producer of opium poppys -- giving Heroin to The Western world.

All Did and still do harbour 9/11 terror suspects.

Mugabe-- murdered his own people in corrupt elections

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:15 pm

along-for-the-ride;1001352 wrote: I had wondered what happened to McCains first marriage. A sad, all too common, story.
Well Well Well. You know what. I logged on to this e mail. I got half way through & i'm getting a tad suspicious, & sure enough, There was the clue.

MAIL ON SUNDAY :wah:

You do realise that this is the sunday edition of the most infamous British Tabloid don't you?

Why have you not got a US tabloid reporting this?

Why has it gone to The Mail In Britain?

My heart goes out to her but The Mail for god's sake.

Do you know anything about this British national paper? Oh Please.

I know this paper, i know the calibre of their Fleet Street journalists. They have reported on me. Thanks The Mail, you did a hell of a spin for me, i'm still in your debt. (That's irony, not entirely gratitude)

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:26 pm

oscar;1001400 wrote: Iraq -- The Kurds

Pakistan training camps for deluded young muslim Brits.

The Taliban-- Afghanistan -- Biggest producer of opium poppys -- giving Heroin to The Western world.

All Did and still do harbour 9/11 terror suspects.

Mugabe-- murdered his own people in corrupt elections

Iraq - shown by the US investigation to have no link to terrorists prior to 9/11. Saddam Hussain - the darling of the west, bankrolled and supported throughout the 1980s at the very time he was gassing the Kurds.

Pakistan - no evidence of terrorist training camps prior to the invasion of Afghanistan

The Taliban - supported by the US to the extent that they were able to take power after the fall of the Russian occupation.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:27 pm

oscar;1001489 wrote: Well Well Well. You know what. I logged on to this e mail. I got half way through & i'm getting a tad suspicious, & sure enough, There was the clue.

MAIL ON SUNDAY :wah:

You do realise that this is the sunday edition of the most infamous British Tabloid don't you?

Why have you not got a US tabloid reporting this?

Why has it gone to The Mail In Britain?

My heart goes out to her but The Mail for god's sake.

Do you know anything about this British national paper? Oh Please.

I know this paper, i know the calibre of their Fleet Street journalists. They have reported on me. Thanks The Mail, you did a hell of a spin for me, i'm still in your debt.

You finally admit it then :wah:

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:33 pm

That's not a fair post without more reason. I too sound heartless.

The Daily Mail is the paper other Press tell you not to buy & not to read. You certainly don't give them an interview.

It is one of the biggest national tabloid newspapers.

It is blatently anti british government, establishment & police.

Due to being anti British governement, it is anti George Bush. They use scare tactic headlines.

If it's anti Bush, it's anti John McCain and they will unscrupulously "Use" any target to get at them.

They won't give a rat's arss if she's dead tomorrow. They no doubt used her for their own gain.

I bet she never even got a follow up call from them once they had gone to press.

i'm butting out now unless Bryn comes at me.

Apologie's, i hi-Jacked your thread.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:33 pm

oscar;1001318 wrote: Let's pick AMERICA. As well as Iraq babie's, i care about the widows & orphaned children in AMERICA when Islamic terrorists blew you up.

Let's pick ENGLAND. As well as Iraq babie's i care about widows & orphaned Children when Islamic Terrorists blew us up, and are still plotting to do so in the future.

Let's talk about SCOTLAND when Islamic terrorists TRIED to blow them up.

Terrorism is a global war & at present, Iran is the biggest threat to American & British security. We can nuke Iran, no sweat. Poland has your missiles primed with Gordon Brown's backing. He may be a scottish twat on home policies but he would push that button, make no mistake, and so would his opposition if they get in.

Look around the world. It's stuffed full of American & British military bases, primed.

Do we want that?

If we didn't care about future generations of children all over the world, Why is it that America & Great Britain are in nearly every country in the world?

Oscar, I also care about the future of the Western world, and I think we do face very very serious threats from a range of enemies, which is why we shouldn't have been using up our capital and military power engaging in hubrisitc military adventures like Iraq but should have been actually fighting Al-Queda from November 2002 in Afganistan and Pakistan, not destroying one of the only secular stable states in the middle east that was the deadly enemy of the jihaddists. The resources we have in the West are actually limited, we need to use them a lot more wisely in future if we are to have a future. Through hubris and arrogance, the Bush Administration and Wall Street have done more damage to American power and influence than the Jihaddists could ever dream of doing, thats the really infuriating thing. :-5

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:46 pm

Bryn Mawr;1001521 wrote: You finally admit it then :wah:
yep Bryn, i hold my hands up. :wah: If you have read my thread on "Australia sent this murdering rapist back to Britain etc", you know i have dropped YOU personally some massive clue's in there in my last posts. The local rag got it wrong big time, Spot will explain. Ironically, The Sun & The Express did the bigging up. The Mail got it right. (For Once) The reason it was so accurate?? The ferocity of a certain famous lawyer involved. He has influence in Fleet Street. They don't ruffle him without extreme caution.

I will e mail you privately Bryn. Spot & i have called a truce. Maybe we can.

I can not post recent developments on here, The Mail's waiting later in the year. :wah::wah:

Guys on this thread won't have a clue what we are on about will they Bryn? Careful, i'm very licitious at the moment.

Just tell me, Did you get the clue's i sent you In the Australian thrad. Your an intelligent man, I'm dying to know

You know who i am Bryn.

I'm Oscar

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:56 pm

oscar;1001554 wrote: yep Bryn, i hold my hands up. :wah: If you have read my thread on "Australia sent this murdering rapist back to Britain etc", you know i have dropped YOU personally some massive clue's in there in my last posts. The local rag got it wrong big time, Spot will explain. Ironically, The Sun & The Express did the bigging up. The Mail got it right. (For Once) The reason it was so accurate?? The ferocity of a certain famous lawyer involved. He has influence in Fleet Street. They don't ruffle him without extreme caution.

I will e mail you privately Bryn. Spot & i have called a truce. Maybe we can.

I can not post recent developments on here, The Mail's waiting later in the year. :wah::wah:

Guys on this thread won't have a clue what we are on about will they Bryn? Careful, i'm very licitious at the moment.

Just tell me, Did you get the clue's i sent you In the Australian thrad. Your an intelligent man, I'm dying to know

You know who i am Bryn.

I'm Oscar

Sue all you like, I'll say what I believe and back up what I say.

It has been obvious since you joined who you are - it was your denials of that fact that disturbed me.

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:56 pm

RedGlitter;1001360 wrote: I understand where you're coming from Galbally. All I'm saying is (for me) if a man bails on the most important relationship in his life because things got inconvenient or she was maimed, a woman he made a lifelong vow to, how could I possibly believe he could stick it out with his country through thick and thin?

You hit the nail right on the head RG, that's exactally what I was going to say! The many posters here keep saying "failed" marriage, it wasn't a failed marriage, he came home from the service to a handycapped wife, that he decided that he now didn't want any longer! So then he just bailed out on her!!! He forgot about the "for better or worse" vow he gave to her. McCain took the easy road, and found himself a much "younger", "prettier", "filthy rich", new wife! It does weigh heavily towards his character, if Prez, would he bail on the US when things got unpleasant?!

I've said it before, & I'll say it again: I so do wish that there were more then the poor contenders we have to choose from!!!

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:57 pm

Bryn Mawr;1001518 wrote: Iraq - shown by the US investigation to have no link to terrorists prior to 9/11. Saddam Hussain - the darling of the west, bankrolled and supported throughout the 1980s at the very time he was gassing the Kurds.

Pakistan - no evidence of terrorist training camps prior to the invasion of Afghanistan

The Taliban - supported by the US to the extent that they were able to take power after the fall of the Russian occupation.

Didn't i just know you were coming to get me Byrn??

What do you expect from me? I buy The Mail every day of my life for ****** sake.

:wah::wah::wah:

You admit then that Saddam carried out ethnic cleansing on his own people? Gassed thousands of Kurds including children & babie's using biological warfare?

Pakistan --- Widely reported for training young Brit muslims led by hate preachers, i.e. Abu Hamza. In prison in Britain awaiting deportation to the US for links to 9/11 & International terrorism charges. Wanted by the US in connection with Pakistan training camps as well as providing funds.

The Taliban ---- surpressor of women's human rights. Major provider of illegal poppy fields resulting in The western world being flooded by unscrupulous drug lords, who pay the Taliban to blown up our troops?

Ummmm Bryn ? Where's Mugabe??

Remember the British Embassy siege with Iranian Extremists?

Remember The Iranian Plane Hi jacks?

Here we go again America

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:01 pm

Bryn Mawr;1001580 wrote: Sue all you like, I'll say what I believe and back up what I say.

It has been obvious since you joined who you are - it was your denials of that fact that disturbed me. Oh come on Bryn. Scullydog1 had you going for just a while didn't she? Yeah??

I will send you a quick e mail before i retire now. I have hogged the thread.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:11 am

Galbally;1001538 wrote: Oscar, I also care about the future of the Western world, and I think we do face very very serious threats from a range of enemies, which is why we shouldn't have been using up our capital and military power engaging in hubrisitc military adventures like Iraq but should have been actually fighting Al-Queda from November 2002 in Afganistan and Pakistan, not destroying one of the only secular stable states in the middle east that was the deadly enemy of the jihaddists. The resources we have in the West are actually limited, we need to use them a lot more wisely in future if we are to have a future. Through hubris and arrogance, the Bush Administration and Wall Street have done more damage to American power and influence than the Jihaddists could ever dream of doing, thats the really infuriating thing. :-5
"Why we should'nt have been using up our capital and military power engaging in hubrisitc military adventures like Iraq but should have been actually fighting AL-Queda from November 2002 etc etc "??

Critisim of the British is that we did the same with another threat to the UK. How many millions did we spend trying to bring peace with the I.R.A. ? Did i turn biasedly against Ireland when the I.R.A. tried to blow my Prime Minister and her cabinet up in the town of my birth and my home town? No, i didn.t. As i was young and i didn't understand, i educated myself instead. I immediately bought books on the history of the I.R.A. to try to understand better. The ignorance of critics is that they don't do that enough.

Myself and my family lived a short few miles away the night that bomb went off on the Brighton Esplanade. Our houses shook. We ran into the street. Word soon spread it was "The Grand Hotel". We knew "Maggie and co" were in there. It was the Tory Party Conference. We got in cars & drove down there. We couldn't get anywhere near for emergency services. It was carnage. I will never forget that but i will never let it it predujice my thoughts. I strive to see both sides of any arguement. I wasn't reading it in "The Daily Mail". It was real, it was in MY home town. But, hey, no hard feelings, we re-built the "Grand Hotel".

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:15 am

cars;1001581 wrote: You hit the nail right on the head RG, that's exactally what I was going to say! The many posters here keep saying "failed" marriage, it wasn't a failed marriage, he came home from the service to a handycapped wife, that he decided that he now didn't want any longer! So then he just bailed out on her!!! He forgot about the "for better or worse" vow he gave to her. McCain took the easy road, and found himself a much "younger", "prettier", "filthy rich", new wife! It does weigh heavily towards his character, if Prez, would he bail on the US when things got unpleasant?!

I've said it before, & I'll say it again: I so do wish that there were more then the poor contenders we have to choose from!!!

What I find disturbing is that Carol McCain say's "he'll make a great president". Huh?

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:40 pm

oscar;1002787 wrote: "Why we should'nt have been using up our capital and military power engaging in hubrisitc military adventures like Iraq but should have been actually fighting AL-Queda from November 2002 etc etc "??

Critisim of the British is that we did the same with another threat to the UK. How many millions did we spend trying to bring peace with the I.R.A. ? Did i turn biasedly against Ireland when the I.R.A. tried to blow my Prime Minister and her cabinet up in the town of my birth and my home town? No, i didn.t. As i was young and i didn't understand, i educated myself instead. I immediately bought books on the history of the I.R.A. to try to understand better. The ignorance of critics is that they don't do that enough.

Myself and my family lived a short few miles away the night that bomb went off on the Brighton Esplanade. Our houses shook. We ran into the street. Word soon spread it was "The Grand Hotel". We knew "Maggie and co" were in there. It was the Tory Party Conference. We got in cars & drove down there. We couldn't get anywhere near for emergency services. It was carnage. I will never forget that but i will never let it it predujice my thoughts. I strive to see both sides of any arguement. I wasn't reading it in "The Daily Mail". It was real, it was in MY home town. But, hey, no hard feelings, we re-built the "Grand Hotel".

What, am I supposed to feel guilty about the IRA because I am Irish? Presumably because deep down you feel that one of my close whiskey-drinking, bearded relatives brought the bomb down the grand hotel in his government-sponsored crock O' gold full of semtex? I have to tell you I don't feel guilty about it in the slightest because they are not mutually inclusive things (being Irish and planting bombs at Tory Party conferences), and in any case I never supported bombing English cities in the 1980s (not that it mattered as I was a young child at the time anyway).

Seeing as you presume all Irish people should feel guilty about the IRA campaign of the 1970s and 80s, then I take it then that you feel terrible about Bloody Sunday, the murders of women children by the RUC and the British Army, the Partition of my country in 1923 against my people's democratically expressed wishes, the resultant Civil War, the mass immigration of millions of Irish from their homeland, the annilhilation of Celtic culture and language in these islands, the persecution of Catholics from the 17th century, the Great Famine and the mass death it entailed, the penal laws, 1798, Cromwell (whom we regard as a monster) and his desultory massacres here, the treaty of Limerick, Trevelyan, Sir Edward Poynings, I mean I could go on. Do you even know what half of that refers to?

I apreciate that after the events you witnessed you became in interested in why it happened, but that doesn't mean you came up with a solution to the conflict between Britain and the IRA over British Rule in the North, just that you understood better about who had just bombed your town. Knowledge is certainly a good thing, but knowing about a problem and solving it are two different things, as everyone seems now to have known about the credit crisis but were strangely unable to lift a finger to stop it.

Are you saying that if we all go out and read the Koran and try to understand why Ali is revered by Shia's or why Fatima was right about Muhammad's heirs, than Islamic Jihaddists will suddenly realize that you a jolly nice fellow and forgive and forget the whole Western Civilization thing etc, then you can all get on with doing up the local town library with the vicar and feeling great about how tolerant and lovely you are? I have to say that that's probably wishful thinking, and wishful thinking is generally only a luxury of the strong.

Oscar I at no point advocate ignorance, or war-mongering, or stupid behaviour. I also do not advocate neo-liberal capitalism- or foreign policy, I certainly do not endorse smug liberalism based on cosy suburban English notions about how the world is and how others may perceive events or their own national history, so you can desist in your rather gauche attempts to patronize me, thank you.

When I refer to fighting Al Queda, I wasn't suggesting bombing orphanages in Kabul or Kandahar, you are mixing up tactics with strategy, my only point is to recognize that there is actually a very serious conflict going on between militant Islam and "The West" for want of a better term, 2. we are losing it because we are not taking it seriously and think that desultory back-slapping military adventures will make it better, and 3, we better start taking life a lot more seriously, a lot quicker.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:02 pm

Galbally;1002907 wrote: What, am I supposed to feel guilty about the IRA because I am Irish? Presumably because deep down you feel that one of my close whiskey-drinking, bearded relatives brought the bomb down the grand hotel in his government-sponsored crock O' gold full of semtex? Seeing as you presume all Irish people should feel guilty about the IRA campaign of the 1970s and 80s, then I take it then that you feel terrible about Bloody Sunday, the murders of women children by the RUC and the British Army, the Partition of my country in 1923 against my people's democratically expressed wishes, the resultant Civil War, the mass immigration of millions of Irish from their homeland, the annilhilation of Celtic culture and language in these islands, the persecution of Catholics from the 17th century, the Great Famine and the mass death it entailed, the penal laws, 1798, Cromwell (whom we regard as a monster) and his desultory massacres here, the treaty of Limerick, Trevelyan, Sir Edward Poynings, I mean I could go on. Do you even know what half of that refers to? I apreciate that after the events you witnessed you became in interested in why it happened, but that doesn't mean you came up with a solution to the conflict between Britain and the IRA over British Rule in the North, just that you understood better about who had just bombed your town.

Are you saying that if we all go out and read the Koran and try to understand why Ali is revered by Shia's or why Fatima was right about Muhammad's heirs, than Islamic Jihaddists will suddenly realize that you a jolly nice fellow and forgive and forget the whole Western Civilization thing etc, then you can all get on with doing up the local town library with the vicar and feeling great about how tolerant and lovely you are? I have to say that that's probably wishful thinking, and wishful thinking is generally only a luxury of the strong.

Oscar I at no point advocate ignorance, or war-mongering, or stupid behaviour. I also do not advocate neo-liberal capitalism- or foreign policy, I certainly do not endorse smug liberalism based on cosy suburban English notions about how the world is and how others may perceive events or their own national history, so you can desist in your rather gauche attempts to patronize me, thank you.

When I refer to fighting Al Queda, I wasn't suggesting bombing orphanages in Kabul or Kandahar, you are mixing up tactics with strategy, my only point is to recognize that there is actually a very serious conflict going on between militant Islam and "The West" for want of a better term, 2. we are losing it because we are not taking it seriously and think that desultory back-slapping military adventures will make it better, and 3, we better start taking life a lot more seriously, a lot quicker.
No Galbally, i don't expect you to feel guilty. I'm with you. My maiden name is "Byrne". County Cork.

My grandfather came here to help the British in the Great War.

He was blown up in a trench on The Somme. He was 29 yrs old. There was not enough of him to scrape together to put in a box and post home.

He left one son -- my dad. He became a WW11 pilot. Payback????

I was born in Brighton.

Oscar

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:05 pm

Galbally. Ever heard the song "The Belfast Child" by Simple Minds"?

It gets played alot in my house.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:09 pm

qsducks;1002791 wrote: What I find disturbing is that Carol McCain say's "he'll make a great president". Huh?
She probably never said it. That's The British Tabloid, The Daily Mail for you.

If she did say it-- UUUHHHH !!! I don't get it either.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:12 pm

oscar;1002931 wrote: No Galbally, i don't expect you to feel guilty. I'm with you. My maiden name is "Byrne". County Cork.

My grandfather came here to help the British in the Great War.

He was blown up in a trench on The Somme. He was 29 yrs old. There was not enough of him to scrape together to put in a box and post home.

He left one son -- my dad.

I was born in Brighton.

Oscar

My great grandfather from Tipperary also served on the Somme in 1916 in the British Army (as did most of the men from his town), but he was a machine gunner behind the trench a little so luckily he survived. I am sorry your ancestor did not, like so many soldiers on all sides and from all nations, a terrible waste of life.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:13 pm

oscar;1002933 wrote: Galbally. Ever heard the song "The Belfast Child" by Simple Minds"?

It gets played alot in my house.

I know the song, the air of it comes from an old song called "She Moved Through the Fair" but I am more a Planxty man myself. :guitarist

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:24 pm

Galbally;1002941 wrote: My great grandfather from Tipperary also served on the Somme in 1916 in the British Army (as did most of the men from his town), but he was a machine gunner behind the trench a little so luckily he survived. I am sorry your ancestor did not, like so many soldiers on all sides and from all nations, a terrible waste of life.
Good God. I'll go through Dad's things, they may have been together.:-1 Grand-dad was an infantry man.

My husbands grandfather also aged 29 yrs old. Killed on the Somme. Slightly different. Shot in the head by the British Army. Why? He was a doctor. He came out the trenches to tend to a wounded German.

As for the Brighton bomb. Fair due's, they tried to get the bitch. They ruined a lovely Hotel though.:wah:

We re-built The Grand Hotel. She re-built the Tory Cabinet.

Hyde Park? That was a little Different for personal reasons. "Sefton" Ring any bells?

Whatever Galbally, We are The United Kingdom.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:29 pm

Galbally;1002943 wrote: I know the song, the air of it comes from an old song called "She Moved Through the Fair" but I am more a Planxty man myself. :guitarist Who?

I'm more of a "The Verve" kind of lady. Richard Ashcroft --- So cool

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:36 pm

oscar;1002935 wrote: She probably never said it. That's The British Tabloid, The Daily Mail for you.

If she did say it-- UUUHHHH !!! I don't get it either.

Well, she's been awfully quiet about it here in the US.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:21 pm

qsducks;1002972 wrote: Well, she's been awfully quiet about it here in the US. It's no doubt down to "The Daily Mail". What i find odd, is that if she had any true grievences for McCain, why did she not go public (or did she?, i don't have US imfo from back then) when he first left her after the car crash all those years ago?

Why now all these years later?

Why a British Tabloid?

Why the most Infamous British Tabloid?

If there is a shred of evidence in The Daily Mail e mail, they would have trawled archieves for any quotes or references they could use from previous US articles to add weight to the article about her now. It's what tabloids to do to sell papers.

I'd be very interested if you could get any links to old US papers on her.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:19 pm

oscar;1003085 wrote: It's no doubt down to "The Daily Mail". What i find odd, is that if she had any true grievences for McCain, why did she not go public (or did she?, i don't have US imfo from back then) when he first left her after the car crash all those years ago?

Why now all these years later?

Why a British Tabloid?

Why the most Infamous British Tabloid?

If there is a shred of evidence in The Daily Mail e mail, they would have trawled archieves for any quotes or references they could use from previous US articles to add weight to the article about her now. It's what tabloids to do to sell papers.

I'd be very interested if you could get any links to old US papers on her.

Its a terrible paper, you are right

But they do give away nice 1980s CDs. :rolleyes:

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:38 pm

Galbally;1003174 wrote: Its a terrible paper, you are right

But they do give away nice 1980s CDs. :rolleyes::wah:

I knew of a politician. I was told by another generation that in private, he was a kind thoughtful man. Word of mouth, not Tabloids.

He was A Conservitive Party Member of Parliment 1950 - 1974

An Ulster Unionist MP 1974 - 1987

He was sacked

In 1968 He rocked the Establishment.

The world knew of MLK "I have a Dream" Speech that stayed in the hearts of every man.

This man made a speech that stayed in The minds of the world but they'd rather forget.

1968 His speech was entitled "RIVERS OF BLOOD"

Brigadier John Enoch Powell MBE June 16th 1912 - February 8th 1998