7 year old breaks into Zoo, kills several animals

Post by **spot** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Previous posts from this thread have been moved to the Compost Pile to stop them from being indexed by Google. They're all at http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=40916

It is, I suppose, at least remotely possible that any further discussion in this thread can be kept both civil and intelligent?

ForumGarden will not under any circumstances, in any thread, put up with any expressed desire that children should be killed as a reaction to their conduct. Not in abstract terms, not in theoretical terms and most especially not when discussing one named specific child. Any post even hinting at it will be deleted.

The thread's left as it is because the content would make no sense if portions were deleted. I apologize to anyone reading it who's shocked by some of the extreme bile they're exposed to.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:23 pm

I will kick off by saying that looking at other press reports, i was saddened to find that the animals the child used were infact from a children's corner.

It was also not the first time the child or his brother had hurt animals there and had attacked the croc before.

Why did the zoo allow these brothers anywhere near the place??

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:39 pm

Ian, spot is trying to allow members to continue the discussion of the news story but leave behind all the unpleasantness of the previous thread. You can read the original thread by following his link but we encourage everyone to post replies in the new thread.

Why is it composted? to keep some of the offensive posts from being indexed on google and read by non members.

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:54 pm

The news story is here

About the Australian Zoo: from wikipedia

Attractions

Although best known for the crocodiles and the live crocodile feedings, the zoo is also known for featuring exhibits of other Australian wildlife

A google video (25seconds) can be found here.

This kid probably watched the crocs being fed a number of times before he decided to try it himself.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:30 pm

The kid was nasty and has hurt animals before, and where were the parents...........allowing a 7 year old out on his own?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:30 pm

Seems to me this is a young young age to show aggressive behavior.

It's very disturbing - he should be playing with Tonka Trucks.

So, he was taught his behavior. Monkey See,,,Monkey Do.

Patsy

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:12 pm

Hoss

you can be a curious child - get a Hamster.

running around at 7 yrs. old, runs to the Zoo , breaks in to kill animals.

No, he didn't VOODOO the animal's

some one has VOODOO on him..

Hoss - this is not your typical 7 yr. old child - this is not curiosity, and the parents or authorities can give many excuses / justify his actions.

The Authorities/Police/Court System

will be seeing this kid.

Troubled Child

Patsy

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:29 pm

Odie;1012152 wrote: The kid was nasty and has hurt animals before, and where were the parents...........allowing a 7 year old out on his own?

how did you come across this info?

I looked and looked and can find no story claiming knowledge of the boy having harmed animals before. Not saying he didn't. I don't know. How do you know?

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:35 pm

koan;1012197 wrote: how did you come across this info?

I looked and looked and can find no story claiming knowledge of the boy having harmed animals before. Not saying he didn't. I don't know. How do you know?

it was on one of the old threads..that this wasn't the first time....................I will try and find it if I can now.

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:37 pm

I find it interesting that one story says

The boy was unknown at the centre and had "clammed up" when questioned by police on what sparked the rampage, he said.

and another story says

He said that the boy’s brother was part of a group that attacked Terry the crocodile about five years ago. Children often tried to throw rocks at the animal enclosures from a nearby hill, but this was by far the worst incident in the eight-year history of the zoo.

Not sure how he goes from being "unknown" to the zookeeper remembering his brother from five years ago... when the boy would have only been two years old.

Still, no mention of the boy, himself, having a history of violence towards animals. I'm keen to see the source.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:39 pm

koan;1012199 wrote: I find it interesting that one story says

The boy was unknown at the centre and had "clammed up" when questioned by police on what sparked the rampage, he said.

and another story says

He said that the boy’s brother was part of a group that attacked Terry the crocodile about five years ago. Children often tried to throw rocks at the animal enclosures from a nearby hill, but this was by far the worst incident in the eight-year history of the zoo.

Not sure how he goes from being "unknown" to the zookeeper remembering his brother from five years ago... when the boy would have only been two years old.

Still, no mention of the boy, himself, having a history of violence towards animals. I'm keen to see the source.

I canot access all of the previous posts,they are not here on these pages, they are 'on the oiginal postings of the story,' there is a link at the top of this page, I entered my password, but it didnt' work.

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:46 pm

if you go to the forum index you'll see what password they're looking for.

excuse me, I just watched a detective film and I'm speaking ambiguously. Can't help it.

LOL

perhaps it's a mystery we can try to solve tomorrow.

Hope6 · Post by **Hope6** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:47 pm

It's easy to think that children shoud just know that they shouldn't be doing this kind of thing. i didn't realize until i became a mother myself that children only know what we teach them. My Jacob didn't really know how he should behave with a real animal until i showed him, now he's fine dealing with the new puppy, but i'm very careful to make sure he sees nothing about killing anything on tv or in real life and so far he doesn't know the concept of killing or hurting anything, he didn't come up with it on his own!

This child must not have been taught to respect life, so basically i'm saying that i hold the parents responsible!

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:24 am

Ian;1012280 wrote: I think the discussion was over and everybody got the point, it doesn't make any sense at all to re post..

Anyway, I'm glad to see that you've erased some comments,

but still have no idea why this was re-posted :-3

Ian. We had to repost it to allow members who had not had the opportunity to respond in the discussion. The thread as it stood needed to be redirected and it has been. We hope now the members who carry on to discuss it will do so following FG's TOS and will be civil and respectful to other members posting here.

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:07 am

spot;1011963 wrote: Previous posts from this thread have been moved to the Compost Pile to stop them from being indexed by Google. They're all at http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=40916

It is, I suppose, at least remotely possible that any further discussion in this thread can be kept both civil and intelligent?

ForumGarden will not under any circumstances, in any thread, put up with any expressed desire that children should be killed as a reaction to their conduct. Not in abstract terms, not in theoretical terms and most especially not when discussing one named specific child. Any post even hinting at it will be deleted.

The thread's left as it is because the content would make no sense if portions were deleted. I apologize to anyone reading it who's shocked by some of the extreme bile they're exposed to.

thank you, Spot. That other thread was the most disturbing thing I've ever seen here.

Post by **spot** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:20 am

sunny104;1012442 wrote: thank you, Spot. That other thread was the most disturbing thing I've ever seen here.

I apologise. It won't recur.

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:53 am

spot;1012472 wrote: I apologise. It won't recur.

you have nothing to apologize for. I'm just glad that thread is gone and people have a chance at a fresh start here if they want it.

suzy_creamcheese · Post by **suzy_creamcheese** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:00 am

Hope6;1012223 wrote: It's easy to think that children shoud just know that they shouldn't be doing this kind of thing. i didn't realize until i became a mother myself that children only know what we teach them. My Jacob didn't really know how he should behave with a real animal until i showed him, now he's fine dealing with the new puppy, but i'm very careful to make sure he sees nothing about killing anything on tv or in real life and so far he doesn't know the concept of killing or hurting anything, he didn't come up with it on his own!

This child must not have been taught to respect life, so basically i'm saying that i hold the parents responsible!

this is it. I never realised till i had children How they are actually wild animals themselves - they need training to be civilised and its a bloody hard job with some children. In a bad family they dont stand a chance

Post by **spot** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:23 am

suzy_creamcheese;1012539 wrote: this is it. I never realised till i had children How they are actually wild animals themselves - they need training to be civilised and its a bloody hard job with some children. In a bad family they dont stand a chance

I took Felicity to the zoo this morning. At one point she was twenty yards behind, investigating a puddle, and her thought processes were completely transparent. She saw a large wet leaf. She picked it up. She considered eating it and decided she didn't need to. Then she gave a grin and trotted over to me making signs to be picked up. Once she was on my arm she spent five minutes slowly tearing off small bits of leaf and putting them in my fingers so I could eat them instead - this was our compromise, she started by trying to push them one by one into my mouth but we agreed not to do that. We agreed that I didn't need to eat the bits she handed me too.

If Felicity were an adult I'd conclude that she was being malicious. At twelve months she's discovering. By the age of seven if she's still sufficiently indiscriminate as to sneak into a zoo when it's closed and throw animals to the crocodile I'll feel I'm bringing her up inadequately.

I haven't found news reports about him having done this in the past - if someone has links they'd be helpful. I'm also rather shocked that a zoo can be entered without security guards immediately preventing any consequence.

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:43 am

Regarding claims that the boy has harmed animals before, the only close comments I can find are that the news reported the family has a history of violence and that the brother was part of a group of kids who threw rocks at the crocodile five years earlier.

That's exactly how outsiders end up with unfounded opinions. A violent family... what does that mean? The whole family is violent? The family is violent towards each other? Just the parents towards the kids? The kids towards other kids? The brother's crime was that he was present at the rock throwing or that he threw some rocks or that he suggested the rock throwing in the first place? And somehow these two nonspecific comments got transformed into the seven year old himself having harmed animals in the past.

The simple fact is that we don't know any details that exist on a real, practical level. Anything we write here is really just a reflection of our own attitudes and perceptions of children and the world.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:16 pm

just brutal this kid was, no excuse!:-5

after reading the article, scroll down to see what the zoo captured of him on video.

4 Oct 2008 ... 7 Year old Boy Goes on Zoo Killing Spree. OMG! What is wrong with people! ... Labels: 7 year old boy, Australia, masacre, zoo ...

www.drizzlyblog.com/2008/10/omg-what-is ... y-say.html - 75k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this[/QUOTE]

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:23 pm

Hello My friends:-6

I believe that most of the posters in this thread believe that this child is in dire need of psychiatric help. I also think that we might agree that his actions were disturbing forms of anger and aggression. His behavior has disturbed all of us.

Instead of abandoning children who have these behaviors, could we first help these children.....

Can we do the following...

**isolated

**evaluated

**rehabed by professionals before we throw them to the wolves?

.........and then we can place them into a loving home who might change their lives?

Would you agree that he needs to be taken away from his family and rehabed? Can we give a child like this a second chance if we moniter his growth? What are your thoughts about this idea??

Instead of being negative, can we be postive and try to figure out a way to help our children? Maybe we can put out efforts into positive ways to help our children be productive members of society.

Maybe someone would like to start a thread about parenting skills, and we can discuss how better to help our children become productive members of society?

Can we as members of our Forum Garden just chill out for a moment and try to help our own children to make their lives better:-4

We love our children. Let's put our thoughs together and try to help redirect our children's thoughs and make them into better people.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:25 pm

never said he doesn't need help,his siblings and family also.

hoping someone will try and help them......if they think they need it.

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:40 pm

Thanks Odie :-6

It really is a positive attitude when family members help, doesn't it? A child needs their family members to help to set positive role models for them.:-6

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:43 pm

Odie;1013266 wrote: never said he doesn't need help,his siblings and family also.

hoping someone will try and help them......if they think they need it.

Hi Odie:-6

Just wanted you to know that I'm not quoting you. I just putting this question out to everyone:p

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:08 pm

Kathy Ellen;1013290 wrote:

Hi Odie:-6

Just wanted you to know that I'm not quoting you. I just putting this question out to everyone:p

not upset hun, but your so right, he and his family need help.................soon!

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:36 pm

Odie;1013310 wrote: not upset hun, but your so right, he and his family need help.................soon!

I agree Odie:-6

Hope6 · Post by **Hope6** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:06 pm

suzy_creamcheese;1012539 wrote: this is it. I never realised till i had children How they are actually wild animals themselves - they need training to be civilised and its a bloody hard job with some children. In a bad family they dont stand a chance

yeah they're kinda like a clean slate, they only know what they are taught, so if they are around bad things thats what they know.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:45 am

Surely, all man, when born are born with an instinct to hunt yet are alao born with an abhorance of hurting, maiming, torturing or killing innocent defenceless animals?

What i find more disturbing is that apparently, the reptiles he used to feed the croc were from a CHILDRENS corner. It wasn't only the animals he was killing, he was hurting the feelings of the children who tended to those animals.

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:51 am

oscar;1013550 wrote: Surely, all man, when born are born with an instinct to hunt yet are alao born with an abhorance of hurting, maiming, torturing or killing innocent defenceless animals?Felicity is one of the most caring children imaginable but it took months to get her to stroke the cat instead of grab. Grabbing hurts the cat but she simply hadn't a clue. It's all a matter if what their brains can actually comprehend as they develop through stages. If you put her in front of a mirror and then surreptitiously dab paint on her nose she sees the image with the dab and she's interested, but she has no idea her own nose is painted. Next year she'll reach for her nose to wipe it off.

It's where the concept of an age of criminal responsibility comes from.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:22 am

spot;1013558 wrote: Felicity is one of the most caring children imaginable but it took months to get her to stroke the cat instead of grab. Grabbing hurts the cat but she simply hadn't a clue. It's all a matter if what their brains can actually comprehend as they develop through stages. If you put her in front of a mirror and then surreptitiously dab paint on her nose she sees the image with the dab and she's interested, but she has no idea her own nose is painted. Next year she'll reach for her nose to wipe it off.

It's where the concept of an age of criminal responsibility comes from.

I understand Spot. When children Grab instead of stroke or touch, there is no malice there, it's simply due to not understanding that they are being too rough with the animal. Very soon they learn that this grab is excessive and is actually hurting and distressing the animal and they loosen up.

As this child is guilty of attacking the croc before this incident, he must have been reprimanded, there-fore i can draw no other conclusion but he knew of what he was doing. The pictures in papers showing him smiling makes it all the more chilling.

Do you remeber the case in Britain some years ago when children as young as this were caught deliberately drowning a baby wallaby?

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:25 am

"this child is guilty of attacking the croc before this incident"? I'd like to read the news report of that. It does seem relevant to what he might have been told beforehand, as you say. I've not found it mentioned in my newspapers.

The wallabies escaped my notice.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:36 am

Idgie;1013633 wrote: He wasn't according to the news, it was his brother 5 years ago.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 874657.ece

My apologies for my mistake.

If my brother had carried out a vile act, been reprimanded for it, i'd have learnt from that -- not gone on to do the same -- and more.

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:39 am

he would've been 2 when his brother did it.

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:39 am

Idgie;1013656 wrote: The child would have only been 2 years old at the time, so I'm sure he wouldn't have known nor understood what his brother did at the time. Again, it all boils down to the lack of supervision and parenting in that family.

we were thinking alike.

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:39 am

oscar;1013650 wrote: If my brother had carried out a vile act, been reprimanded for it, i'd have learnt from that -- not gone on to do the same -- and more.

Then in order to determine whether the fault lies with the child or with his upbringing you'd need to know, among other things, whether he had been aware of any brotherly reprimand. He'd have been two when whatever happened before happened.

Has nobody any sympathy with the notion that the zoo screwed up, not physically preventing repeated events like this?

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:45 am

It took this young child 35 minutes to kill 13 rare and endangered animals. He had a plan and he carried it out this is premeditated in my mind. He needs the best help he can get and the sooner the better.

His family needs to be a part of the process as well. This was no prank it was a cruel attack that was planned. Violent acts of aggression by anyone are always signs of problems in anyone. HELP is what this child need and immediately.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:46 am

Idgie;1013669 wrote: Yes, as I stated in a post I made in the old thread, the zoo should take some responsibity for not beefing up their security since this boys bother acted out on this croc 5 years ago.

Oh that's o.k. then.

Debate over.

It's the zoo's fault!! Jesus Christ