Start Packing Sarah

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:25 am

JimmyO,,,,, wrote:

The vast majority of Americans are not racist, but it is worrying that even John McCain has to remind his followers that Obama is a decent family man, and that Americans need not fear him if he becomes the next President. It is reassuring to see the decency of McCain, but to hear his followers one fears for their lack of decency and one shudders at its implications.

We in Europe are hoping that Obama is the next President not because he is a black man but because he is so obviously the better candidate.Unfortunately he's not running for President of the EU. :rolleyes:

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:49 am

Just saw on the news that Bristol's soon to be hubby is dropping out of his senior year in high school. Pathetic. Hope he does get his GED though.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:44 pm

My favorite line I've read in a while....:wah:

Jon Meacham, Newsweek, October 13, 2008

After the vice presidential debate, a senior figure in the party, who asked not to be named because he was telling the truth, told me that Palin should talk less about being "just-folks" and more about being governor of a large state."

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:00 pm

Accountable;1019774 wrote: Unfortunately he's not running for President of the EU. :rolleyes:

Do you realize what we are witnessing?

I find it an honor to be alive in these times,, considering the last eight years as well as the thirty before that...

This is a special time in America,,,, and the whole world is rooting for us..

and God said,,,,,

flop wrote:

Is who you think you are

Who you wanna be

It's ok, to be a little broken

Everybody's broken, in this life

It's ok, to feel a little broken

Everybody's broken, you're alright

This is America!!

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:11 pm

DrJ;1020781 wrote: Do you realize what we are witnessing?

I find it an honor to be alive in these times,, considering the last eight years as well as the thirty before that...

This is a special time in America,,,, and whole world is rooting for us.... to do what? You do realize, of course, that people root for things in their own best interest, not necessarily that of the, er, rootee, don't you?

So, to repeat the question so you can ignore it properly: rooting for us to do what?

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:14 pm

Accountable;1020790 wrote: .. to do what? You do realize, of course, that people root for things in their own best interest, not necessarily that of the, er, rootee, don't you?

So, to repeat the question so you can ignore it properly: rooting for us to do what?

To succeed,,,,,,,,,,,:-6

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:20 pm

DrJ;1020792 wrote: To succeed,,,,,,,,,,,:-6
Uh huh. No chance we define that differently, is there?

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:35 pm

Accountable;1020794 wrote: Uh huh. No chance we define that differently, is there?

get ahead,,,,,,,,,,achieve,boom,,,attain,,

There is no other reasonable choice,,,, lets face it,, the conservative leaders of todays times,, are truly simple minded political hacks,, this is obvious...

America cannot afford to leaders without at least a coherent idea,,

I mean tell the truth,, would you hire these two McCain/Palin hacks over a former president of the Harvard law review,,, to run anything?

America has got to be better than that,, or America hasn't got a chance in hell..

We need intelligent people at the top,, and I don't care from what party...

You see the choices that are in front of you...

Show me how smart you are!

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:10 am

DrJ;1020823 wrote: get ahead,,,,,,,,,,achieve,boom,,,attain,,

There is no other reasonable choice,,,, lets face it,, the conservative leaders of todays times,, are truly simple minded political hacks,, this is obvious...Why do you insist on singling out so-called conservatives? BOTH of the top candidates are simple-minded political hacks.

DrJ wrote: America cannot afford to leaders without at least a coherent idea,,

I mean tell the truth,, would you hire these two McCain/Palin hacks over a former president of the Harvard law review,,, to run anything?Would I hire a former squadron commander who made management decisions every day, and a governor with a modicum of experience running a government, over a guy that ran a college monthly magazine (given that it is, after all, one of the nation's most prestigious college magazines)? If those are my only two choices with no other criteria, I'd have to say yes, I'd choose the two with experience.

Unfortunately, you and other fools are convinced that they are the only two choices and have created a self-fulfilling prophecy, so I have to endure a simple-minded political hack to sit in the President's chair while his handlers further ruin my country.

DrJ wrote: America has got to be better than that,, or America hasn't got a chance in hell..

We need intelligent people at the top,, and I don't care from what party...Of course you do! It's in virtually every post you've written on the subject.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:57 pm

Accountable;1023527 wrote: Which message? The tripe that you're spewing, or the message that you're spewing tripe because you feel guilty about your own bigotry?

Racism is used in this election by people who don't understand the issues,,, and need to have a reason to vote for a certain candidate,,, even if that candidate is obviously flawed,, like McCain/Palin...

and thats true in my family as well,,,. I live in an area of America that still can't get past the ignorance of the past,, :-5:-5,,,, are you claiming theres no racism where you live?:wah:

I believe the racism issue has improved a lot in this country,, more so than in other countries but it still has a long way to go in certain parts,,or partys...

I believe conservatives have the larger problem,, but I see it in every party..

The most positive thing about Obama's bid for the president is how it brings certain attitudes to the fore front,,, and in the Mccain Campaign...

Campaigns are the mirror one uses to judge exactly what is thought of by the party as "voter awareness" or the lack of it...

But I have to admit,,, I believe the republican party has become the most anti American group of politicians,,,as far as the people are concerned,, in the history of the republican conservative party... as they have pushed a trickle down philosophy that holds down labor costs while allowing CEOs to take anything they want,, with tax breaks to boot...

Racism is still an issue in my family,, which I,, to this day,, still don't understand,, but I do know it when I see it,,, when bullsh!t is more easily accepted as truth,, like the rev wright issue was... Which was in my opinion,,, 100% racism....

Even tho most would never admit it...

This ignorance effects families,,, and every issue thought about by said racist,, it's like having a proven liar on the stand,, you can't take anything they say serious.

I also believe this generation of conservative politicians are doing so much damage to the conservative philosophy,,, real conservatives are making a mistake riding them out in this election,,,and settling for idiots in the hope they can control them. I believe it will kill the conservative philosophy,, as everyone will identify with todays representatives of it...

Racism needs educated,,, even in the minds of us that believe we aren't racists.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:34 pm

DrJ;1024639 wrote: Racism is used in this election by people who don't understand the issues,,, and need to have a reason to vote for a certain candidate,,, even if that candidate is obviously flawed,, like McCain/Palin...... or Obama/Biden. Agreed. You of course acknowledge that it's on both sides, right??

DrJ wrote: and thats true in my family as well,,,. I live in an area of America that still can't get past the ignorance of the past,, :-5:-5,,,, are you claiming theres no racism where you live?:wah:No, only that not everyone is racist, as you apparently assume.

DrJ wrote: I believe the racism issue has improved a lot in this country,, more so than in other countries but it still has a long way to go in certain parts,,or partys...I agree about this country. I can't speak on other countries.

DrJ wrote: I believe conservatives have the larger problem,, but I see it in every party..

The most positive thing about Obama's bid for the president is how it brings certain attitudes to the fore front,,, and in the Mccain Campaign...

Campaigns are the mirror one uses to judge exactly what is thought of by the party as "voter awareness" or the lack of it...Yes, both of the major parties think the public are idiots. Republicans think we buy their crap about wanting smaller gov't; Democrats think we're too stupid to take care of our own affairs and need gov't to make decisions for us.

DrJ wrote: But I have to admit,,, I believe the republican party has become the most anti American group of politicians,,,as far as the people are concerned,, in the history of the republican conservative party... as they have pushed a trickle down philosophy that holds down labor costs while allowing CEOs to take anything they want,, with tax breaks to boot...And you see the democrats' idea of centralizing everything under the federal umbrella as more "American" ?? Come on!

DrJ wrote: Racism is still an issue in my family,, which I,, to this day,, still don't understand,, but I do know it when I see it,,, when bullsh!t is more easily accepted as truth,, like the rev wright issue was... Which was in my opinion,,, 100% racism....

Even tho most would never admit it...It was opportunism. The same would have happened if Obama's preacher was that white catholic priest screaming about Hillary.

DrJ wrote: This ignorance effects families,,, and every issue thought about by said racist,, it's like having a proven liar on the stand,, you can't take anything they say serious.I can't take anything either of them say seriously.

DrJ wrote: I also believe this generation of conservative politicians are doing so much damage to the conservative philosophy,,, real conservatives are making a mistake riding them out in this election,,,and settling for idiots in the hope they can control them. I believe it will kill the conservative philosophy,, as everyone will identify with todays representatives of it...Agreed. They're moving further to the left every election. That big government power is an addictive drug.

DrJ wrote: Racism needs educated,,, even in the minds of us that believe we aren't racists.'kay. If that's what you think you're doing. I only see you screaming conspiracy and turning people off. How are you educating people who turn away?

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:20 pm

Accountable;1024664 wrote: ... or Obama/Biden. Agreed. You of course acknowledge that it's on both sides, right??

I can't accept the fact that people are voting for Obama because they are anti white,,, no. There's been too many white ones elected,,,:sneaky:

acc wrote:

No, only that not everyone is racist, as you apparently assume.

It may seem like I'm saying that,,, but I know for a fact its not true.

I do believe non racist people still need to understand it..

.

acc wrote:

Yes, both of the major parties think the public are idiots. Republicans think we buy their crap about wanting smaller gov't; Democrats think we're too stupid to take care of our own affairs and need gov't to make decisions for us.

You are generalizing it too much there...even about the right..

Democrats appear to have more compassion for the less fortunate which the right wants to call socialism,,, and that generalization has fooled many.. and made me believe the us govt ought to just let em buy cheap poisenous food from China with there food stamps and the conservative republicans wouldn't have to think of em any more at all..

acc wrote:

And you see the democrats' idea of centralizing everything under the federal umbrella as more "American" ?? Come on!

Trickle down is an idea out of the mind of a dictator..

The people deserve more,, and if their voices were louder,,, they'd have it..

The right combines small business with big business,,. when they talk about small business they are really looking out for walmart,,shell,,etc etc...

The deception convinces people not to question whats being crumbed out to them.

Keeping the people divided is they're only chance,, I believe in the future people will start to understand this,,,and things will change...

acc wrote:

It was opportunism. The same would have happened if Obama's preacher was that white catholic priest screaming about Hillary.

Opportunism of the fear and the deepest racist emotions of white America..

acc wrote:

I can't take anything either of them say seriously.

Agreed. They're moving further to the left every election. That big government power is an addictive drug.

'kay. If that's what you think you're doing. I only see you screaming conspiracy and turning people off. How are you educating people who turn away?

I don't think people voting for a lesser candidate because the more intelligent voice happens to be black a conspiracy,,, I see it as a disease that will hurt America if it doesn't receive the proper treatment,, and in this case its education.

I'm merely spreading the seeds,, maybe the source of these seeds isn't perfect,, but if some land in fertile minds,, I do believe they will grow,, and bloom in other areas,, when heard again in other places.. or so the story goes...:-6

People's nature,, I believe is to sooner or later do the math,, and put 2 and 2 together.,,, who knows maybe someday they'll look back and say,, yeah I remember reading it from that idiot poster DocJ,,,what do ya think?

:-3

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:02 pm

DrJ;1024808 wrote: I can't accept the fact that people are voting for Obama because they are anti white,,, no. There's been too many white ones elected,,,:sneaky:Not because they're anti-white ... because they're terrified of being thought of as anti-black. You and others expand Obama's positives and minimize his negatives specifically because he is black. Your guilt has blinded you.

DrJ wrote: You are generalizing it too much there...even about the right..

Democrats appear to have more compassion for the less fortunate which the right wants to call socialism,,, and that generalization has fooled many.. and made me believe the us govt ought to just let em buy cheap poisenous food from China with there food stamps and the conservative republicans wouldn't have to think of em any more at all..Nice use of the word "appear". Compassion is fine, but their solutions scream that they believe the less fortunate are too simple, weak, lazy, or stupid to take care of themselves and so, rather than building them up, they take the burden of responsibility off their shoulders and throw it to the government - meaning the rest of us. That responsibility is the balance to freedom that gives freedom value.

DrJ wrote: Trickle down is an idea out of the mind of a dictator..

The people deserve more,, and if their voices were louder,,, they'd have it..

The right combines small business with big business,,. when they talk about small business they are really looking out for walmart,,shell,,etc etc...

The deception convinces people not to question whats being crumbed out to them.

Keeping the people divided is they're only chance,, I believe in the future people will start to understand this,,,and things will change...By "they" I hope you mean politicians and not just one "side". Obama's playing that wedge-issue game more strongly than McCain.

DrJ wrote: People's nature,, I believe is to sooner or later do the math,, and put 2 and 2 together.,,, who knows maybe someday they'll look back and say,, yeah I remember reading it from that idiot poster DocJ,,,what do ya think?

:-3

I think your calculator needs new batteries.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:05 pm

Accountable;1024852 wrote: Not because they're anti-white ... because they're terrified of being thought of as anti-black. You and others expand Obama's positives and minimize his negatives specifically because he is black. Your guilt has blinded you.

I have to ask you,,, don't take this wrong,, but what part of your mind is working when ideas like this appear on the screen inside your head.

if its guilt that's making me pick the smartest candidate in the room,, i think all of America needs to get on a serious guilt trip,,, because the non guilty voters are giving us Bushies and McFailens,,, give me a break!

acc wrote:

Nice use of the word "appear". ,,,,,,,,,,,,Compassion is fine,

the less fortunate are too simple, weak, lazy, or stupid

That responsibility is the balance to freedom that gives freedom value.

This from a teacher of special learning!:-2

Maybe they shouldn't be judged just by those that take advantage of programs just because they can,,, maybe people need to live it,, before they judge whose starving,, and whose just rockin it out..

I knew an english professor who had life by the tail,, until his wife popped his balloon,, and in a New York Minute,,, things got a little strange,,and everything,, all of life for him,,,,,,,,,changed... He gave up,, but luckily the soup line didn't..

ass wrote:

By "they" I hope you mean politicians and not just one "side". Obama's playing that wedge-issue game more strongly than McCain.

I think your calculator needs new batteries.

Explain your observation of this wedge,,,

Obama is into a better distribution of wealth,, I believe if wages and benefits start increasing in this country,,,, starting with the absurd minumum wage,,, it will be what people find as the solution right under our collective noses,, and the start of a much stronger and more confident America...

Our solutions maybe what everyone has feared trying,,, socialized medicine may lower prices,, making the insurance companies stronger,, making the premiums cheaper,, making the profits for companies larger...

This just one thing conservatives tell everyone to fear,, maybe is what fixes all the worlds problems,, and auto matically,,,naturally,, re-distributes the wealth in America,, One more time,,, maybe all the things people are telling us to fear,,,and stop us from trying,, are the answers we're looking for..

Boy,,wouldn't that be a blow to mankind... Conservative fears,,,,is all that held the world back!

I say we throw the conservatives out of govt,,, for ten yrs,, and fix America,, dispelling all conservative fears so we can then again be looked at as world leaders,, as many will see,, as America will shine by example by not being afraid anymore to try new things,, to fix old problems...

My calculater has just gone nuclear:-6

:-6

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:34 pm

Need to post a Nerd Alert ..........Tina Fey as Sarah Palin on Saturday Night Live tonight at 11:30 pm:wah:

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:16 am

DrJ;1024889 wrote: I have to ask you,,, don't take this wrong,, but what part of your mind is working when ideas like this appear on the screen inside your head.

if its guilt that's making me pick the smartest candidate in the room,, i think all of America needs to get on a serious guilt trip,,, because the non guilty voters are giving us Bushies and McFailens,,, give me a break!You meet virtually every argument against Obama with cries of racism. You don't come up with valid arguments for him, only that people are against him because of melanin.

Being the smartest is not a reason to put someone in office. Wisdom is far more important. Justice, fairness, etc. And the fact that neither of the two that power brokers have chosen to sponsor have any of these qualities is not a reason to fall back on gpa.

Do you ever ask why he chose Chicago, with its long history of political corruption, rather than launching his career from Hawaii? Why doesn't he ever mention Hawaii?? Who paid for this expensive education? Who does he owe for his meteoric rise?

Never mind the fact that virtually all of his empty promises and plans are for programs that the Constitution clearly places under state jurisdiction.

DrJ wrote: This from a teacher of special learning!:-2

Maybe they shouldn't be judged just by those that take advantage of programs just because they can,,, maybe people need to live it,, before they judge whose starving,, and whose just rockin it out..You imply that I haven't lived it. You're dead wrong. He's not talking about helping only the starving and desparate. His programs are for everyone except the very richest. Well excuse me, I can take care of myself and so can you. I watch my special kids struggle every day to succeed on their own. They aren't blessed with the health, brains and talents of the average welfare earner, yet they want to make it as far as possible on their own. They have pride of self-determination that Obama and his like (including you) is not possible to people who aren't financially successful. Nanny programs crush that pride. They are un-American. They are anti-American.

DrJ wrote: I knew an english professor who had life by the tail,, until his wife popped his balloon,, and in a New York Minute,,, things got a little strange,,and everything,, all of life for him,,,,,,,,,changed... He gave up,, but luckily the soup line didn't..Federal gov't doesn't have soup lines. That stuff is taken care of by fellow Americans, as it should be. People helping people, face to face. That's what makes America great. That's what big gov't destroys. Your anecdote does not match the situations of the "95%" that Obama wants to put on the government tit.

DrJ wrote: Explain your observation of this wedge,,,

Obama is into a better distribution of wealth,, I believe if wages and benefits start increasing in this country,,,, starting with the absurd minumum wage,,, it will be what people find as the solution right under our collective noses,, and the start of a much stronger and more confident America...Minimum wage itself is a wedge issue. It and wealth redistribution arguments are designed to create jealousy of the affluent. We should rather be figuring out how these guys became rich and teaching the good qualities and legal techniques in our schools, rather than teaching dependence on government.

DrJ wrote: Our solutions maybe what everyone has feared trying,,, socialized medicine may lower prices,, making the insurance companies stronger,, making the premiums cheaper,, making the profits for companies larger...

This just one thing conservatives tell everyone to fear,, maybe is what fixes all the worlds problems,, and auto matically,,,naturally,, re-distributes the wealth in America,, One more time,,, maybe all the things people are telling us to fear,,,and stop us from trying,, are the answers we're looking for..

Boy,,wouldn't that be a blow to mankind... Conservative fears,,,,is all that held the world back!Back from what?? I don't want their money. They've earned it!! If they haven't earned it legally then put them in prison. If they have earned it legally, let's steal their ideas, tap into their spirit. That's what will make us strong, not taking from the earners.

DrJ wrote: I say we throw the conservatives out of govt,,, for ten yrs,, and fix America,, dispelling all conservative fears so we can then again be looked at as world leaders,, as many will see,, as America will shine by example by not being afraid anymore to try new things,, to fix old problems...

My calculater has just gone nuclear:-6

:-6Government isn't the answer. Go back to the drawing board.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:51 am

The Chicago Tribune and the Los Angeles Times have both endorsed Obama.. wow!

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:31 pm

Accountable;1025100 wrote: You meet virtually every argument against Obama with cries of racism. You don't come up with valid arguments for him, only that people are against him because of melanin.

That's not true..

Conservatives lie,,, completely make sh!t up,,, or exaggerate some minute point to twist the truth..... Very understandable since they are on the verge of becoming extinct,,,, in the political forum....

If conservatives continue to follow these idiot republicans,, they too,, will stop influencing any issue in this country...I predict,,mark my words..

acc wrote:

Being the smartest is not a reason to put someone in office. Wisdom is far more important. Justice, fairness, etc. And the fact that neither of the two that power brokers have chosen to sponsor have any of these qualities is not a reason to fall back on gpa.

America is quite aware some conservatives don't count GPA,, when selecting a world leader,,, but tell me exactly what wisdom was seen in GWB pre-elect?:-3

I think most America is realizing why conservatives don't care about intelligence,,

Lack of intelligence leads to fear,,, and a failure to understand..

acc wrote:

Do you ever ask why he chose Chicago, with its long history of political corruption, rather than launching his career from Hawaii? Why doesn't he ever mention Hawaii?? Who paid for this expensive education? Who does he owe for his meteoric rise?

Tell the truth Acc,,, if they had the answers to all those questions,, would it really matter? We're talking about a re-distrubution of the nations wealth,, something Christ had an opinion about,,, but conservatives are convinced Christ walks with the corporations,,,:-5,, it's a joke Teach,, I feel for any follower of the conservative agenda in these times,,, because pretty soon it will become painfully obvious how fooled every right leaning believer will feel...GWB,, showed everyone..

acc wrote:

I watch my special kids struggle every day to succeed on their own.

They aren't blessed with the health, brains and talents of the average welfare earner, yet they want to make it as far as possible on their own. They have pride of self-determination

.

They are un-American. They are anti-American.

We are all pro american,,, the left know that the right is pro American,, this anti American talking point is a low road,,, chosen by the conservatives...Why?

People declare war over issues like this... Tell me teach,,, what other things and people of America,, do you think are un-American? Anti-American?

acc wrote:

Minimum wage itself is a wedge issue. It and wealth redistribution arguments are designed to create jealousy of the affluent.

Government isn't the answer. Go back to the drawing board.

If it wasn't for thewall st crash,,, you wouldn't even think a drawing board was even needed,,, you'd still believe the conservative talking point,,

tHE FUNDAMENTALS OF OUR ECONOMY ARE STRONG

This is all the evidence I need,,, to know the truth about conservative voters..

Conservatives would let their leaders lie all the way up to a depression..

It's,, so far,, the saddest revelation yet,, about the kinds of people conservatives chose to represent them,, and how little the conservative voters pay attention to them,,,,,,,,,,

The best case for separation from church cult,,,and state..:sneaky:

I do wish someone would see that as un-American..........

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:42 pm

DrJ;1025515 wrote: That's not true..

Conservatives lie,,, You say that as if it's exclusive to conservatives. :rolleyes:

DrJ wrote: America is quite aware some conservatives don't count GPA,, when selecting a world leader,,, but tell me exactly what wisdom was seen in GWB pre-elect?:-3:yh_youkid There you go again assuming I support Bush, despite tons of evidence to the contrary. I think I'm tired of you again, but I'll finish this post.

For GPA, since you imply that it's important to you, what was Obama's? What was Biden's?

DrJ wrote: Tell the truth Acc,,, if they had the answers to all those questions,, would it really matter?
YES!!

DrJ wrote: If it wasn't for thewall st crash,,, you wouldn't even think a drawing board was even needed,,, you'd still believe the conservative talking point,,

tHE FUNDAMENTALS OF OUR ECONOMY ARE STRONGWhat are the fundamentals - the things essential to our economy - to you? To me they include our resilience, our never-say-die spirit, our ingenuity to overcome obstacles whatever the odds. These are things are strong, but Obama and you would squelch them by making people dependent on government benevolence rather than self-determination.

DrJ wrote: This is all the evidence I need,,,Those are the words of a closed mind.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:17 pm

Accountable;1025735 wrote: You say that as if it's exclusive to conservatives.

OK... I admit,, this could go both ways over past elections,, but I see the truth just happens to be on the side of democrats in this election,, unless you know of lies told by dems in this one,,,,speak!!!

acc wrote:

:yh_youkid There you go again assuming I support Bush, despite tons of evidence to the contrary. I think I'm tired of you again, but I'll finish this post.

For GPA, since you imply that it's important to you, what was Obama's? What was Biden's?

Lets pretend we are observing the same world,, and I'll re-phrase the question;

What do you think,, for the sake of argument,, since you brought up the lack of importance of intelligence,, and leaned towards wisdom,,,,,, what do you believe was seen in GWB,,pre elect,, by those,,, who screwed America with their vote?

I don't assume anything about you,,, you show yourself in your writing just as you claim I do.. The campaign strategy of the Rnc,, is the question;

WHO IS BARRACK-whose sane- OBAMA?

This tells me you are buying into the McCain/Palin smoke and mirror campaign.

Maybe your just using it for this conversation,,, who knows....

The truth you seek about Obama is in his writing as well,, I would suspect..

Buy the book or visit sites that speak of it... But finding the answers isn't the purpose of the questions,,,now is it? Admit it,,,Old Man!:wah:

acc wrote:

What are the fundamentals - the things essential to our economy - to you? To me they include our resilience, our never-say-die spirit, our ingenuity to overcome obstacles whatever the odds. .

These are the things thought up after McCains blunder,,, and everyone knows it..

Just a coincidence it rhymes with your philosophy?

I have a feeling the market wasn't supposed to crash,, and the "strong fundamentals" wasn't even supposed to be questioned...

That there is some kind of dis connect between conservatives in the administration and the financial experts,,strange to say the least...

You are only fooling yourself,, if you are trying to buy into these republican excuses as to the reasons America's financial situation just happen to explode under a conservative administration,,,, and somehow if we choose another republican administration things will be better...

That 95 % on the Govt "tit"? These are tax cuts,,,,,not welfare...

Is that what your saying about the tax breaks for the rich as well?

Conservatives blow my mind,,, when there giving to the rich its "the American Way"

When they're giving tax breaks to the poor and middle class,,,its welfare....

I have to tell ya,,Teach,,, I like discussing it,, but this is one of the sites where the conservative arguments usually die out,, if some kind of agreement isn't reached,,

puzzles me,,, but I'm used to it...

I'm on other ones that are relentless,,,:-5

your alright for a school teacher,,,,Teach..

The awright student

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:28 am

The problem is that lady represents a lot of people who don't ever pay attention,,, and the conservative strategies mark these people,,, with a lot of krap that really don't mean anything,, and somethings that are total deceptions,, a lot like some of the stuff most conservatives bring to this conversation,,,right wing delusions loaded with keywords,,, that promote fear to those too shut in to understand whats being done to them..

Very well said Dr.

Keywords are the foundation of Senator McCains race for the presidency. Hes a one word wonder as is R.L. and Hannity. They throw words and phrases out in droves in an embarrassing attempt to string together a coherent sentence.

I dont know why Im still amazed by their child like tactics but I am. Stunningly so.

Its become not a race for McCain by the right wing voters but a battle of wits by the witless. At this stage Im guessing theyre playing strictly for pride.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:24 am

Nomad;1026609 wrote: Very well said Dr.

Keywords are the foundation of Senator McCains race for the presidency. Hes a one word wonder as is R.L. and Hannity. They throw words and phrases out in droves in an embarrassing attempt to string together a coherent sentence.

I dont know why Im still amazed by their child like tactics but I am. Stunningly so.

Its become not a race for McCain by the right wing voters but a battle of wits by the witless. At this stage Im guessing theyre playing strictly for pride.

I have people in my own family that are like that nice lady,, who don't realize or grasp the reality of how campaigns are run when the truth isn't really on their side,,, the democrats just are in a position where "change" just happens to fall in their lap.. To bad the truth just isn't enough sometimes in America..

My aunt is also a loyal republican,, and will live and die republican,, but I see the Mccain campaign as politicians just doing their job,, and really don't have nothing to lose,, so they can really say and do just about anything...

I am an independent,, and being a union man,, am pulling for Obama,, but I realize most elections are won,, in the middle and after seeing how negative, and deceptive,, the McCain/ Palin campaign has become with the robo calls that flat out call Obama a terrorist,, I can see how McCain corrected her on the stump,, but is fully taking advantage of the unawareness of these Americans...

I liked mccain,, and took up for him in South carolina when Bush/Rove took advantage of that same unawareness in 2000,, until he gave up and kissed up to Bush,, I knew then the "Maverick" was just a phoney campaign strategy,, a part of my learning process on all politicians..

I am also still amazed at how the republican party continues to deceive the American people,, and the polls are still so close,,, I have to think the polls are wrong,, because this is a reflection of America's political awareness...

I have to laugh about it, cause my family passes them 527 emails like there gospel, during an election and the rest of year,, you'd never know politics ever existed in this country, i mean, I think Ronald Reagan hypnotised my poor family.

I used to hate Rush Limb-balless,, but now with the editions of Hannity and Bill OO'really,,,,,,,,,I see their comedic/retarded side that is aimed directly at those politically unaware folks,, which focuses the picture a little better,, I hope people start to see thru these far right idiots who I think should be held accountable,,

for something.. A statutory rape kind of thing,, like what some car mechanics do to people who don't understand car engines..:sneaky:

Just a thought,,,,,,,,

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:42 am

Its a sick twisted game. No doubt Obama is a well oiled finely tuned machine surrounded by people that know how to play the game better than McCains camp. McCain's camps biggest disadvantage is that its McCain theyre trying to push through.

Why people rally behind McCain quite simply blows my mind.

My best guess is a lot of people vote strictly party which to me is nothing short of ignorant and flat out lazy.

Maybe thats why theyre so proud to be "ditto heads"

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:27 pm

I recently had a garage sale - A older man @ 60'ish is looking at books.

So , I go over to sell, rummaging thru stacks of Books, I come a across a

McCain Book - flip it up to this man and say:

"You look like a McCain Supporter, where's a book. the man said: "That's Right",

"I'm not stupid, and I don't need a book, I know all I need to know @ McCain"..

I chuckle, price a few Books for this man and say:

"Yeh, What you need to know about McCain won't be in a book".

Took his money before I lipped off...:wah:

So, made me think of the amount of (elderly) with the same mind set.?

We have alot of Archie Bunker's - who stand & support military, and see nothing beyond that.

Due to Archie Bunker's own experience & who Archie (they) fought against.

This would include my own Father (deceased), he'd never Vote a Black man in Office. I mean Never.. We Never ate Asian Foods.

This mind set is not just for a male - Female's too.

The Percent of the Elderly in our population could put McCain in Office. ??

Good to see Dr Heckle/Jeckle

Patsy

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:17 pm

Patsy Warnick;1027583 wrote: I

So, made me think of the amount of (elderly) with the same mind set.?

We have alot of Archie Bunker's - who stand & support military, and see nothing beyond that.

Due to Archie Bunker's own experience & who Archie (they) fought against.

This would include my own Father (deceased), he'd never Vote a Black man in Office. I mean Never.. We Never ate Asian Foods.

This mind set is not just for a male - Female's too.

The Percent of the Elderly in our population could put McCain in Office. ??

Good to see Dr Heckle/Jeckle

Patsy

Hi P

I know what Obama is up against,,, but I think the fact that these are special times,, and his intelligence shines thru in a special way,, which does give him more of an edge,, I believe,,, is it enough to break thru? We'll see.

I think people are going to be surprised at the impact an Obama win in this election is going to have on this country,,

the mere fact he's made it this far has made me take notice to a certain part of the make up of the Black people I talk to,,,

its like an unspoken,, inner power inside everyone that comes thru,,,

it's a glow that is coming thru them,, an actual physical thing,, that you can't help but notice,,, and I don't think some are aware,, its coming from them,,,,,,,,

Radiating from them,,,a truly special thing.. God-like,,is the best description i can give it,,,

this hope that the unbelievable,,, is incredibly losing letters,, and they are here,,,living,, breathing,, and can't believe they maybe the generation that sees the dream come alive..

The pride of Obamas intelligence is effecting this one buddy of mine so much,,, he even talks different,,, I mentioned it,, and he just gave me this look,,

he tried to say something back and his voice was shakey

I could tell it's going to be something him and his kids will be effected by on election day,,,, in a way that never occurred to me

an event that will effect the rest of his life,, and his kids life..

You can tell theres something under the surface,

,but on the sleeve at the same time,,hard to describe for me,,,

I felt lucky just noticing it,,,

Its not just an election to some,,,

the sad thing is him and his,,, see the old white man,, Mccain,,

accusing Obama of some very anti American sh!t,,,,,,,,,,,

It says a lot about this country,, in ways I never even realized...

I believe we white people don't quite understand what it will mean to them..

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:08 pm

Dr. J

What do you think of the Elderly Vote ? Possible?

You seem to be RE-BORN - as if Obama is guiding you.? I don't mean to be silly about it, but your preaching Obama.

Your a true supporter

Patsy

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:31 pm

Patsy Warnick;1027733 wrote: Dr. J

What do you think of the Elderly Vote ? Possible?

You seem to be RE-BORN - as if Obama is guiding you.? I don't mean to be silly about it, but your preaching Obama.

Your a true supporter

Patsy

Do you watch soap operas,,Patsy?

Well when you do,, you get to know the characters,,, I just know,,

I have seen how politicians get elected,,

I know the lies of the conservative agenda run very deep in this country..

Would you believe,,

Conservatives don't have a clue who they are voting for,,

The politicians aren't showing they're true agenda..

My Opinion

Pay attention,, and you too will have an opinion,, no one will believe..

We are all but God on earth,,,,,,,,,,in pieces,,,hehehehehehehe

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:34 pm

Dr. J

I hesitated to answer, SOAP OPERAS... YOU are our Soap Opera...

You stated "you get to know the character" CHARACTER ??

I don't want a "Character" running this Country. That's Howdy Doody.. Dude..

If you relating to body language - I'm very in-tune to body language..

If your relating to the "character", "person" you've watched, followed, researched,and now support - that's stalking.... Welcome to America....

that's just my piece of earth.....:wah:

Liberals have a clue ??

Patsy

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:06 am

Patsy Warnick;1030334 wrote: Dr. J

I hesitated to answer, SOAP OPERAS... YOU are our Soap Opera...

You stated "you get to know the character" CHARACTER ??

I don't want a "Character" running this Country. That's Howdy Doody.. Dude..

If you relating to body language - I'm very in-tune to body language..

If your relating to the "character", "person" you've watched, followed, researched,and now support - that's stalking.... Welcome to America....

that's just my piece of earth.....

Liberals have a clue ??

Patsy

OK,,,,,,,,,,Ya got me,,,

I'll retract it,,,I'd been writing all day about a congress woman from McCarthyville,

tension high,,, emotions,,pain pills :-5

I blame it on the drugs...........

I know this,, real conservatives aren't voting this election,,, seems they don't believe a bad conservative is better than no conservative after Bush/cheney...

The people that merely vote conservative cause all their friends do,, well they aren't for anyone,,,merely voting against the left taking it for awhile,,it seems..

How do you know all his,,,DrJykelllhykell?,,,,you ask...

Because I pay attention....

I know you doubt me,,,baby

But have a little faith,,,for this is all unfolding before your eyes,,

Have a little faith,,,,,,,,,,,,,in me,,:guitarist

Have a litle faith,,,,,,,,,in me,,:guitarist

Have a little faith,, in me,,:guitarist

have a little faith in me.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,!:guitarist

Say goodbye to the nice republicans!:-6

Anti American/socialism/communism/terrorism/conservatism

The republicans successfully attached it to the label,, liberal,, used mostly on certain right wing talk shows among non-politicians,, and the first time I ever heard a politician, an actual politician,,, voice those views,, on Hardball or any other cable news,, was last Friday,, the keyword used to be "un-patriotic", but in these desperate times un-patriotic turns to anti American,, or communist,, or socialist,, I call that a version of racism because it relies on the education or awareness in the minds of voters..

The Dixie Chicks walked directly, and naively, straight into this mind field, and I believe showed democrats how to fight this type of "nuclear" issue in a conservative America who use this as a

debate stopping tactic when faced with a truth they cannot spin their way out of, in this case taking the argument away from war..

I started paying attention to the politicians and the American media when the Bush campaign crushed McCain in 2000,, but what made me realize America was being taken for a ride,, was when the religion of Islam was implicated in America's 9/11,, and the press,, the educated press, did nothing to educate people, there was no voice for Innocent Muslims,, and profiling became an accepted strategy,, right or wrong,, the fear injected was an eye-opener.

That's why I respect "nazi Pat" of all the pundits,, he probably understands political strategies that involve demonizing an entire belief system to the point where killing them is as natural as Grandma,, an Apple pie.. Sound familiar?

Its the invisible beauty about America,, when a loud minority tries to take advantage of the political ignorance in her people,, like a conservative far right party,, there is inside her a built in self correcting mechanism,,a beast,, it is those born in freedom who quietly live their lives until fear is injected into the political rhetoric,,, and then we make sure that particular party loses a generation of voters,, write it down in history books so future generations know when to spot it,,,, because the only power politicians have in America, is the power we give them..............Conservative voter purges will not even phase the Beast...

I'm only sad we didn't get the head of the snake the first time.

I respect Pat Buchanan, a powerless Pat Buchanan...

The Beast awoke on 9/11 and found America divided,,,

We're gonna miss the republican party.............Bwahahahaha!

Conservative racism- is done....DONE!!!:-6

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:48 am

The Country was more together after 9/11, then it ever has been..

Are you sure your not the beast..??

Patsy

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:57 am

Patsy Warnick;1030362 wrote: The Country was more together after 9/11, then it ever has been..

Are you sure your not the beast..??

Patsy

We are the sleeping giant,,, we awoke on 9/11,,, we are America,,.

right and left exist only because we allow them to...

The divided America was told to go shopping,,

we are the beast that own America..............

Some of us didn't,,obey!

Did you?

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:39 am

Patsy Warnick;1030362 wrote: The Country was more together after 9/11, then it ever has been..

Are you sure your not the beast..??

Patsy

You got picture on here,,Patsy?

the post wrote:

Obama's Red ShirtsBy INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:20 PM PT

Voter Fraud: Republican leaders want to defund and criminally investigate ACORN. Why should taxpayer dollars fund a "nonpartisan" organization that proclaims "Obama needs ACORN, and we need Obama."

That the greatest attempt at voter fraud in the nation's history is being funded in large part at taxpayer's expense is more than a bit ironic. House Minority Leader John Boehner wants it stopped and Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, wants the group allegedly behind the fraud, ACORN, criminally investigated and prosecuted.

We agree. Those orchestrating this attempt to steal the 2008 election should go to jail, directly to jail, and not collect our $200.

Republican leaders have done everything they think they can to trip up minorities and low wage earners because in large turn out elections,, conservatives are in deep do do,,, you know , and I know it..

So to set up possibilities of election day confusion they accuse Acorn of the same things they are guilty of,, only because they are well aware of the majority of voters acorn deals with are of the poorer classes,, who usually vote democratic..

Now I've read in this thread enough to know one in here are complete idiots,,..

So between me and you all,, I know for a fact what the paranoid conservative republicans are up to,, and they are going down, America is slowly realizing they have been played by conservative republicans,, and if it works again on the American public,, all I can say is,,,America will pay dearly,, because you can only play on someones ignorance for so long before your advantage in a conservative philosophy stops helping you as well... We can be so much better,, we just got to invest in the people a wee bit better than what we've done,,, American people go down,, Everybody's goin down....

The holidays are coming,,, and someone told my grandson conservatives are trying to kill Santa Clause!

My kids are raising independents,,, God love 'em!

I truly hope its just that people are naive about it all,,, like my family sadly believing the 527's,,

because the alternative is people don't care what it takes to win and just don't care about this country..

Real conservatives understand a bad conservative isn't better than no conservative..

Bush/Cheney has made that painfully obvious,,

Country First? Sarah Palin secretly wants to separate from the USA,, and become Queen of Alaska...

This is a good thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you republicans in here are probably are good Americans,, but I have to say these republican politicians need to find another way to make a living,,,

America is way to diverse for anyone of them,, and I don't take their past success negatively,, but I still believe everyone of them needs to go to work at Walmart for a year,, then come back,, I don't think they'd last week there either,,, but if they did,, I'm sure it would help them understand America better...

Confusing the electorate is a fine art,, the republicans used to be good at it..

by accusing democrats of their own negatives,, they successfully weaken the truth about themselves,,Ya think? I believe its the smartest tactic they use!

A conversation...........

So it seems to me like McCain‘s attacks on Barack Obama have really frequently been on topics on subjects where he‘s got bigger political vulnerabilities or at least the same-size political vulnerabilities that Obama has. Is that on purpose or is that an accident?

ALTER: Well, I guess you could say “chutzpah” is Yiddish for “maverick.” You know, they want to confuse voters so they throw up a lot of chaff. The problem is, they might confuse the voters about McCain own record with lobbyists or what he‘s done in the past with ACORN.

But they‘re not advancing the ball by doing this. So it‘s really a short sighted political tactic. It‘s not a strategy. It‘s an example of where they‘re off base because they‘re fighting everything off at a tactical level.

And by the way, if they are assuming people‘s stupidity, which is behind this - you know, if you try to accuse somebody else of something you‘re guilty of yourself, you‘re assuming that the public is dumb. If the public is that dumb, then they think ACORN is something that falls from a tree. You know, they are not going to really get the point. So all of it is just a lot of activity to no particular end.

MADDOW: But if you look at the way that ACORN has been blamed not only for voter fraud - I‘m not even talking about voter registration fraud, but also the way ACORN has even been implicated by the right by having caused financial crisis in some way. They caricature the group in a way that makes a very blunt point that is a racial point. The implication is that Barack Obama becoming president would mean an American government invested in moving political assets and money and favors to black people at the expense of white people.

ALTER: That is true. And that‘s why you saw Palin at the Republican convention use “community organizer” as a dirty word ...

MADDOW: Yes.

ALTER: Almost as a code word for those poor people of color who are trying to get organized. And partly, they‘re afraid of ACORN. ACORN has registered millions of Americans. And at a time when nobody else was really looking out for poor people, in communities across the United States, ACORN was doing so.

Did they have some bad apples in ACORN? Absolutely. They had people who, as Obama said today, in order to get the paycheck from ACORN, they would fill out the cards, you know, just to get the work done in ways they were not accurate.

MADDOW: Which happens any time you pay somebody to register people, right?

ALTER: Of course. And the important thing is - and I discussed this yesterday with the head of ACORN yesterday - is that it was ACORN that brought this to the attention of election officials. It‘s not like ACORN was caught out doing this.

ACORN doesn‘t want bad registration cards because then those people can‘t vote. So, you know, this whole thing is just another one of these ridiculous tempest in a tea pot. But I think you‘re quite right that there‘s a race and class subtext to this that‘s of a piece with a lot of the rest of their tactic on this.

MADDOW: Right, because the political salience of this depends on getting the point that this is somehow black people, poor people, intercity people, up to no good in a way that has something to do with the election. That‘s the blunt point that they‘re hoping, I think, comes across.

ALTER: That and those people.

MADDOW: Yes, that‘s exactly right. But in order to punch back against it, in order to explain what‘s wrong with that tactic, you have to understand the difference between voter fraud and voter registration fraud. The idea that if you do sign up Mickey Mouse to vote, Mickey Mouse won‘t then turn up to actually cast a ballot. So there‘s no incentive to steal the election with registration fraud.

ALTER: Also, there‘s a bigger thing going on here. Since 1964, when large numbers of African-Americans were allowed to vote for the first time, the Republican Party in every election since then, has been dedicated to trying to suppress turnout on the theory that the more turnout, the worst for Republicans.

Democrats have tried to expand turnout and as they‘ve done that, of course, the Republicans have charged voter fraud. The Republicans have had the upper hand in this because of some important Supreme Court decisions including one that requires - that allows states to require you to have a driver‘s license or a non-driver‘s license equivalent in order to vote.

If that gets widespread, it will be very hard for a lot of people like those you saw during Katrina who don‘t have driver‘s licenses. It‘s almost like a latter-day literacy test or these things that were done during Jim Crow segregation to keep people from voting.

So, that‘s the real story - is the advances that the conservatives have made in recent years in keeping people from voting. The cases of actual old-fashioned vote fraud where, you know, somebody is trying to vote when they shouldn‘t be. Very, very few of them.

And when asked, you know, it‘s like impossible for them to come up with very many examples of this happening at the polls places.

MADDOW: Which was one of the important subplots in U.S. attorney scandal. U.S. attorneys‘ federal prosecutors being directed by Republican political operatives, in essence, to find voter fraud examples, not being able to find them, running up against political frustration.

One last quick point, Jonathan. The Federal Appeals Court has just ruled that Ohio‘s top elections official has to verify all new voter registrations. Do you have any sense of what that might mean in Ohio on November 4th?

ALTER: Well, the important thing for Democrats is that the secretary of state and the governor are now Democrats. In 2004, both were Republicans and dedicated in a very obvious way to trying to suppress the vote. These Democratic officials are dedicated to trying to allow as many people to vote as possible.

So they have control of the machinery as we found in Ohio in 2004 and in Florida in 2000. The party that controls the machinery of election process has the upper hand. So I wouldn‘t - if I were a Democratic candidate in Ohio, I wouldn‘t get too worried about this.

How long are republican politician going to be able to pull wool over their own base, and be successful?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:04 am

DrJ;1031723 wrote: Confusing the electorate is a fine art,, the republicans used to be good at it..... but the democrats have clearly surpassed them in that area. :wah:

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:02 pm

Accountable;1031749 wrote: ... but the democrats have clearly surpassed them in that area. :wah:

I guess its their turn...

today wrote:

RACISM in the context of a political election is the act of voting for or against a particular race for no other reason than a preference or dislike for that race

ergo.... most of the 95% of Blacks who vote for Obama without knowing his antiAmerican positions, are racists

ergo... POWELL is racist because he votes for Obama against all of his pronounced political beliefs; he caved under racist pressure

ergo...many Whites see a chance to vote for a Black man who appears not to be angry at Whitey, thereby proving to themselves that they are not really racist

it is silly to postulate that since a few Conservatives have strayed from the straight and narrow of our ideology, does NOT mean we have to try socialism; we will FIX THE DEFECTS and come back to fight another day....SI SENOR!

when the baby is sick, do we bury the baby or cure its ills?

To make statements like this:

Manna wrote:

We've all got some racist tendencies, but one needs to learn to not be offensive. It's not the same when you say that a white man has something of the night, as when you say that about a black man. I might affectionately call my daughter a little monkey, but I would never ever call her black friend (a fellow little violinist) a little monkey. It's just stupid and insensitive"...

is hyperbole and intellectual masturbation: sensation without satisfaction.... meaningless drivel intended to make the author feel good about himself/herself while being PC (Positively Crooked)...

Yeah right,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Who cares?

I hate to tell ya this ,people,, but I can't believe how we explain another persons mind like its our own..

anti american,,, socialism,, communism,,,

all ravings of lunatics who are having their claws pried off the levers of power.

We got bigger problems than that,, because fear isn't working anymore,, and the republicans are on the verge of extinction,,.

I'm guessing their next move is to paint Obama with the Bail-out,, when in reality,, the criminal conservatives took advantage of de regulations asked for by democrats,, and the de-regulation of the banking system hid the problem,, McCain's prior involvement in banking scandals,, and de-regulation will put a hurdle in this plan,, but they are so desparate,, gambling on voter un-awareness is all they really have left.. It's so sad watching them,, painful even,, seeing him explain why Sarah was a great decision................

But,,,,,,but,,but,,, she's the most popular Governor in Amer-i-ca!

Why don't they care? it's un american not to like my sa-rah!

She does got some legs on her,, I do see a future for her,, Hillary's love slave!

If she was democrat or independent,, I'd think about it,, but her phoney religious beliefs negate any positive things about the poor woman.. If she would drop the act,, learn the constitution and be real,, she might have a chance..

America doesn't want or need another corporate puppwet in the white house,, or any other house if you ask me..

Why can't republicans rise above this phoney keep the base happy,, and dump bush and the republican party,, and find a new base of real Americans,, instead of these very hypocritical,, judgemental narrow minded far right wing christians?

Far right White people who own racism in America,, is the conservative base,, and those who aren't racist are the one or two issue voters who only pay attention a week before an election.. Totally unaware of their leaders inner minds,,inner thinking,, but like some who believe we know for sure what others are thinking..

There are issues from both sides I agree with,, but the bases of both right/left drive a lot of people away..

There is something funny about this bail out,, and banking/investment people are being given a very unfair free pass so far.

These criminals are some of the most intelligent people in the room,, and watch who all protects them,, and tries to divert attention from,,,,,,,,,,,,,and they are mostly conservatives...Why?

Why do you think McCain doesn't care about his reputation anymore?

What made him sell out?

Do you think the financial crisis could have had better timing?

Do you wonder to yourself at times,,,Why would Alqaeda support Conservatives like McCain/Palin?

Who benefits the most from a bankrupt America?

Do you believe its anyone from this country?

Coincidences/conspiracies,,

I hate when things get too easy in America,

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and it does give an independent pause,,,

Why did Biden say what he said said,,,

,,,,,,,,,and why did the conservatives kill Santa Clause?

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:25 pm

Sarah was mis-used,,, but she has also been vetted by the public,, and right now her views show an extreme view of America..

She's too far to the right too be taken serious,, everything is a reflection of the Christian rights picture of America,, I believe politicians who claim to be,, or are funded by any religious agenda in a multi-cultured,, down the middle type of country, like America,, is going to lose in a post Bush/Cheney world,,,, and its thick in the air for many republican candidates..

We are a more centered country in reality,, a reason for so many republican hypocrites,, and a "sarah" hasn't really got a chance in America's new political future... You'd think with all the problems created by right leaning versions of religions in this world,, more Americans would see this,, but apparently those that lean right are the last ones to realize this,, and come away not even knowing what is being said... or how their own beliefs are associated with this equation...

Praying God to take care of the rich so they can take care of the rest of society is the silliest request to GOD from the earth........

The trickle down philosophy has failed the American family.

The reason I believe Bush/Cheney was the medicine America needed to see how bad this philosophy winds up.. No one has anything,, and no one can buy anything,, an end game which would tear at the heart strands of the core of this idea called,,,,,"America".............

Americans had better wake up!!!

It's time the people were represented in Government and the Businesses be emplored to take care of the frozen wages and decreasing benefits, that are holding a majority of the American families down in this time of high cost and inflation....

The Christian right has become a parasite on the backs of the republicans, with their narrow minded view of American politics that are trying to much to shape policy,, that pushes politicians to push laws that paint the whole population with this very unfair right leaning judgemental Christian brush that is in direct conflict with the freedoms in a multi cultural nation,,, that the agents of intolerance believe is for the good of everyone,, even non christians...

Amazingly enough not even considering the economic deal the right wing trickle down philosophy hands the working people that are being left out of any republican agenda.. The Christian Church,, a corporation within itself,, trying to get the American government filled with politicians who represent other corporations above and beyond all people.:sneaky:

FYI wrote:

Whenever the government of the United States shall break up, it will probably be in consequence of a false direction having been given to public opinion. This is the weak point of our defenses, and the part to which the enemies of the system will direct all their attacks. Opinion can be so perverted as to cause the false to seem true; the enemy, a friend, and the friend, an enemy; the best interests of the nation to appear insignificant, and trifles of moment; in a word, the right the wrong, and the wrong the right. In a country where opinion has sway, to seize upon it, is to seize upon power. As it is a rule of humanity that the upright and well-intentioned are comparatively passive, while the designing, dishonest and selfish are the most untiring in their efforts, the danger of public opinion's getting a false direction is four-fold, since few men think for themselves.

â€”James Fenimore Cooper,

The American Democrat, 1838

Every election is showing this threat of republican extinction in the American Govt,,, so be ready for trouble with more voting machines stretched across this country,, as they will not be as isolated as in the past, and happening in every swing state...

I predict,,,, America's democracy will be over run with support for Obama,,, and this will be why America survives another very testy election... The people will decide this thing and every voting machine will be watched closely....

This election will test the reality of a democratic society where it is assumed every vote is supposed to count...

Americans can unite watching everyone vote, and calling out any questionable suspicious mistake while we are in progress,,,,

The corporations and republican lawmakers have put enough hurdles up, but this is going to be a different kind of turn-out, which I think will jump over every hurdle placed by man or party..

One turn out election like we have never seen...

I predict.......and ,,,Hope!!!!!

DrJ :-6

America needs a more centered approach that acommodates all the people in a multi-cultural country claiming religious freedoms, and lean more towards religious tolerance than religious dominance...............:driving:

A united America cannot fail,,,:guitarist

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:38 am

Well, we're not going to get that by keeping status quo (dems/repubs running the gov't). America needs to get rid of the two-headed hydra and deflate the bloated government back to a reasonable size.

Ted Nugent calls it Fedzilla. :wah:

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:43 pm

Accountable;1035137 wrote: Well, we're not going to get that by keeping status quo (dems/repubs running the gov't). America needs to get rid of the two-headed hydra and deflate the bloated government back to a reasonable size.

Ted Nugent calls it Fedzilla. :wah:

I like you,,Teach

but i read a "cup half empty" in your very serious and understandable observations,,,

Your solution,, Get rid of both Dems and repubs,, its a good one,, only because its one thing we haven't tried yet...

My solution,, if i may,, is to do the same but lets picture the actual road we must get on to make this happen....

Lets chop one head at a time and slowly observe what happens,, lets build support for alternative choices in the process,,

Let's allow the dems their 2 to 4 years,, a long enough rope,, remembering the divisive nature of the repubs,, who want small government,, as long as the rich are the only ones being handed everything.. So they have no chance of returning to divide us again............

Independent thinkers need to start a new conversation,, one that connects to all people,, building a consensus that is centered enough to be bought by all of us who live free in America..

Let the dems try it,, What could they destroy in four years we couldn't fix in the next four?

Think about it,, without Jimmy Carter,, they would be no Ronnie reagan!

Lets remove religion out of our politics so we don't lean in any direction,,, or favor any insane cult who firmly believes voters are more comfortable with their heads lodged firmly up their own A$$!!!!!

Let's show the world we mean business and stop casting votes for the right,, while reminding the left it's a double edged sword,, and can easily be turned to the left as well...........

It will send a message,, the American people will not be conned anymore, by any party,,,,,,,,,,we can start ending the lefts reign in the next two years..

Changing is a process,, we can accomplish one head at a time...

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:11 pm

DrJ;1035775 wrote: I like you,,Teach

but i read a "cup half empty" in your very serious and understandable observations,,,

Your solution,, Get rid of both Dems and repubs,, its a good one,, only because its one thing we haven't tried yet...

My solution,, if i may,, is to do the same but lets picture the actual road we must get on to make this happen....

Lets chop one head at a time and slowly observe what happens,, lets build support for alternative choices in the process,,

Let's allow the dems their 2 to 4 years,, a long enough rope,, remembering the divisive nature of the repubs,, who want small government,, as long as the rich are the only ones being handed everything.. So they have no chance of returning to divide us again............

Independent thinkers need to start a new conversation,, one that connects to all people,, building a consensus that is centered enough to be bought by all of us who live free in America..

Let the dems try it,, What could they destroy in four years we couldn't fix in the next four?

Think about it,, without Jimmy Carter,, they would be no Ronnie reagan!

Lets remove religion out of our politics so we don't lean in any direction,,, or favor any insane cult who firmly believes voters are more comfortable with their heads lodged firmly up their own A$$!!!!!

Let's show the world we mean business and stop casting votes for the right,, while reminding the left it's a double edged sword,, and can easily be turned to the left as well...........

It will send a message,, the American people will not be conned anymore, by any party,,,,,,,,,,we can start ending the lefts reign in the next two years..

Changing is a process,, we can accomplish one head at a time...
That's status quo, Doc. How many times have we switched dem for repub & vice versa? How many times have we tried all the various combinations in the Senat/House/President? DDD, RRR, DDR, DRR, DRD, RDD, RDR, RRD?

I'm tired of status quo, but you keep repeating the experiment expecting a different outcome. How's that workin' for ya?

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:00 pm

Accountable;1035801 wrote: That's status quo, Doc. How many times have we switched dem for repub & vice versa? How many times have we tried all the various combinations in the Senat/House/President? DDD, RRR, DDR, DRR, DRD, RDD, RDR, RRD?

I'm tired of status quo, but you keep repeating the experiment expecting a different outcome. How's that workin' for ya?

I'm dealing in reality,, your dealing in dreams,, that maybe be whats needed,, but this year and this election what you suggest needs more time,, but I believe you know this and anything else is merely shoveling more sh!t on a problem without viable means to make it happen,, this is why I doubt your serious devoted belief in change,, or how we might go about it,,, right now,, in 08....

A party needs to be introduced,,, ideas are just bullshit until we find a way to make them reality.. lets get rid of them one party at a time,,

I repeat,,

Your solution,, Get rid of both Dems and repubs,, its a good one,, only because its one thing we haven't tried yet...

My solution,, if i may,, is to do the same but lets picture the actual road we must get on to make this happen....

Lets chop one head at a time and slowly observe what happens,, lets build support for alternative choices in the process,,

Let's allow the dems their 2 to 4 years,, a long enough rope,, remembering the divisive nature of the repubs,, who want small government,, as long as the rich are the only ones being handed everything.. So they have no chance of returning to divide us again............

Independent thinkers need to start a new conversation,, one that connects to all people,, building a consensus that is centered enough to be bought by all of us who live free in America..

Let the dems try it,, What could they destroy in four years we couldn't fix in the next four?

Think about it,, without Jimmy Carter,, they would be no Ronnie reagan!

Lets remove religion out of our politics so we don't lean in any direction,,, or favor any insane cult who firmly believes voters are more comfortable with their heads lodged firmly up their own A$$!!!!!

Let's show the world we mean business and stop casting votes for the right,, while reminding the left it's a double edged sword,, and can easily be turned to the left as well...........

It will send a message,, the American people will not be conned anymore, by any party,,,,,,,,,,we can start ending the lefts reign in the next two years..

Changing is a process,, we can accomplish one head at a time...

Your idea is a good one,,but lets do it in a way that makes your idea a reality,, and lets begin to rid America of this two party system starting right now,,

Ridding this American Govt of the republican Party now sends the signal,,

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:27 pm

You repeat ... and I repeat ... it's been repeated time and time again. Cutting off one head does nothing, and you are just today talking about eventually getting rid of both. All this time you've been singing the dem song.

They didn't build their powerhouse in one election, and they won't be taken out in one election. This is the perfect time to start building an opposition party (if someone has a better solution than bringing another party to power, please speak up!). It's the perfect time because the two candidates are so close to each other, philosophically & politically. It doesn't matter which one wins.

The heads are twins.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:49 pm

Accountable;1035860 wrote: You repeat ... and I repeat ... it's been repeated time and time again. Cutting off one head does nothing, and you are just today talking about eventually getting rid of both. All this time you've been singing the dem song.

They didn't build their powerhouse in one election, and they won't be taken out in one election. This is the perfect time to start building an opposition party (if someone has a better solution than bringing another party to power, please speak up!). It's the perfect time because the two candidates are so close to each other, philosophically & politically. It doesn't matter which one wins.

The heads are twins.

If we voteout the republican party,,COMPLETELY,, this will send a very different message,, than any before in history,,

The reality of our present situation is that we are going to wind up with a democratic majority,,, correct?

Lets make them the only party,, with very few independents, which we can probably do in this election except for the few republicans not in any danger this election because they don't have to face the voters this election...

Do you not see anything different about ridding the government of one entire political party?

The reality of today is that the republican party has had a majority,, in the house,, the senate,, and the white house in resent years and look at the way tyhe country now views the republicans,,,

I merely see the need to start cleaning house and want to start with the party that has been damaged by a Christian right cult, a religious corporation that seems to support corporate rule.,, much like Hitler's Germany.....

So I repeat,,

I'm dealing in reality,, your dealing in dreams,, that maybe be whats needed,, but this year and this election what you suggest needs more time,, but I believe you know this and anything else is merely shoveling more sh!t on a problem without viable means to make it happen,, this is why I doubt your serious devoted belief in change,, or how we might go about it,,, right now,, in 08....

A party needs to be introduced,,, ideas are just bullshit until we find a way to make them reality.. lets get rid of them one party at a time,,

I repeat,,

Your solution,, Get rid of both Dems and repubs,, its a good one,, only because its one thing we haven't tried yet...

My solution,, if i may,, is to do the same but lets picture the actual road we must get on to make this happen....

Lets chop one head at a time and slowly observe what happens,, lets build support for alternative choices in the process,,

Let's allow the dems their 2 to 4 years,, a long enough rope,, remembering the divisive nature of the repubs,, who want small government,, as long as the rich are the only ones being handed everything.. So they have no chance of returning to divide us again............

Independent thinkers need to start a new conversation,, one that connects to all people,, building a consensus that is centered enough to be bought by all of us who live free in America..

Let the dems try it,, What could they destroy in four years we couldn't fix in the next four?

Think about it,, without Jimmy Carter,, they would be no Ronnie reagan!

Lets remove religion out of our politics so we don't lean in any direction,,, or favor any insane cult who firmly believes voters are more comfortable with their heads lodged firmly up their own A$$!!!!!

Let's show the world we mean business and stop casting votes for the right,, while reminding the left it's a double edged sword,, and can easily be turned to the left as well...........

It will send a message,, the American people will not be conned anymore, by any party,,,,,,,,,,we can start ending the lefts reign in the next two years..

Changing is a process,, we can accomplish one head at a time...

Your idea is a good one,,but lets do it in a way that makes your idea a reality,, and lets begin to rid America of this two party system starting right now,,

Ridding this American Govt of the republican Party now sends the signal,,

I believe this is the new approach needed,, give me another scenario where we can start this year,, that has any chance of showing the same kind of results to change..

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:58 pm

DrJ;1035873 wrote: If we voteout the republican party,,COMPLETELY,, this will send a very different message,, than any before in history,,

The reality of our present situation is that we are going to wind up with a democratic majority,,, correct?

Lets make them the only party,, with very few independents, which we can probably do in this election except for the few republicans not in any danger this election because they don't have to face the voters this election...

Do you not see anything different about ridding the government of one entire political party?

The reality of today is that the republican party has had a majority,, in the house,, the senate,, and the white house in resent years and look at the way tyhe country now views the republicans,,,

I merely see the need to start cleaning house and want to start with the party that has been damaged by a Christian right cult, a religious corporation that seems to support corporate rule.,, much like Hitler's Germany.....

So I repeat,,

I'm dealing in reality,, your dealing in dreams,,
:yh_rotfl

You're not seriously suggesting voting out every repub THIS election??!? First, they're not all running. Second, we don't need a second because the first oughta do just fine. :wah:

We're both talking about a long process. I like mine better because it's far more realistic than giving the entire federal gov't to a single party.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:37 pm

Accountable;1035886 wrote: :yh_rotfl

You're not seriously suggesting voting out every repub THIS election??!? First, they're not all running. Second, we don't need a second because the first oughta do just fine. :wah:

We're both talking about a long process. I like mine better because it's far more realistic than giving the entire federal gov't to a single party.

I think we can do enough damage to the party,, this election to start a process that allows for independents to start getting a foothold in the US Govt..

If we have to we can work on the rest of the party in following elections,, concentrating on federal republicans now,, an in your face type of move,, will get people thinking about how they decide things in Washington,, and show local yocals how we start the changing process..

One election at a time,, with purpose..

So give me another possible scenario,,than this..

FYI wrote:

So I repeat,,

I'm dealing in reality,, your dealing in dreams,, that maybe be whats needed,, but this year and this election what you suggest needs more time,, but I believe you know this and anything else is merely shoveling more sh!t on a problem without viable means to make it happen,, this is why I doubt your serious devoted belief in change,, or how we might go about it,,, right now,, in 08....

A party needs to be introduced,,, ideas are just bullshit until we find a way to make them reality.. lets get rid of them one party at a time,,

I repeat,,

Your solution,, Get rid of both Dems and repubs,, its a good one,, only because its one thing we haven't tried yet...

My solution,, if i may,, is to do the same but lets picture the actual road we must get on to make this happen....

Lets chop one head at a time and slowly observe what happens,, lets build support for alternative choices in the process,,

Let's allow the dems their 2 to 4 years,, a long enough rope,, remembering the divisive nature of the repubs,, who want small government,, as long as the rich are the only ones being handed everything.. So they have no chance of returning to divide us again............

Independent thinkers need to start a new conversation,, one that connects to all people,, building a consensus that is centered enough to be bought by all of us who live free in America..

Let the dems try it,, What could they destroy in four years we couldn't fix in the next four?

Think about it,, without Jimmy Carter,, they would be no Ronnie reagan!

Lets remove religion out of our politics so we don't lean in any direction,,, or favor any insane cult who firmly believes voters are more comfortable with their heads lodged firmly up their own A$$!!!!!

Let's show the world we mean business and stop casting votes for the right,, while reminding the left it's a double edged sword,, and can easily be turned to the left as well...........

It will send a message,, the American people will not be conned anymore, by any party,,,,,,,,,,we can start ending the lefts reign in the next two years..

Changing is a process,, we can accomplish one head at a time...

Your idea is a good one,,but lets do it in a way that makes your idea a reality,, and lets begin to rid America of this two party system starting right now,,

Ridding this American Govt of the republican Party now sends the signal,,

I believe this is the new approach needed,, give me another scenario where we can start this year,, that has any chance of showing the same kind of results to change..

It's just the beginning,,

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:11 pm

DrJ;1035924 wrote: I think we can do enough damage to the party,, this election to start a process that allows for independents to start getting a foothold in the US Govt..

If we have to we can work on the rest of the party in following elections,, concentrating on federal republicans now,, an in your face type of move,, will get people thinking about how they decide things in Washington,, and show local yocals how we start the changing process..

One election at a time,, with purpose..

So give me another possible scenario,,than this..

It's just the beginning,,Ahah, now you're bringing Independents into the mix. Myopic voters see only Repubs, Dems, and Independents. Well, independents are a wide variety of people lumped together, including the Libertarian Party, which I've chosen as my vehicle. So we actually agree on this one, at least the goal if not the route.

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:17 pm

I know I'm a pain in the A$$, but Sarah was in my hometown and proclaimed to be a Phillies fan....Does Alaska have a baseball team? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Carpet bagger Sarah.:wah:

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:30 pm

Accountable;1035953 wrote: Ahah, now you're bringing Independents into the mix. Myopic voters see only Repubs, Dems, and Independents. Well, independents are a wide variety of people lumped together, including the Libertarian Party, which I've chosen as my vehicle. So we actually agree on this one, at least the goal if not the route.

This whole conversation was about getting rid of one whole political party, in reality idependents haven't got a chance as of 08,, but dumping this right wing party has never been about giving it to democrats exclusive,, or ridding independents,,

I'm glad you finally see,,,. count the pages it took for us to agree,, and with that perspective,, and I mean no dis respect,, read the second one again,,

fyi wrote:

I like you,,Teach

but i read a "cup half empty" in your very serious and understandable observations,,,

Your solution,, Get rid of both Dems and repubs,, its a good one,, only because its one thing we haven't tried yet...

My solution,, if i may,, is to do the same but lets picture the actual road we must get on to make this happen....

Lets chop one head at a time and slowly observe what happens,, lets build support for alternative choices in the process

Let's allow the dems their 2 to 4 years,, a long enough rope,, remembering the divisive nature of the repubs,, who want small government,, as long as the rich are the only ones being handed everything.. So they have no chance of returning to divide us again.......

Independent thinkers need to start a new conversation, one that connects to all people,, building a consensus that is centered enough to be bought by all of us who live free in America..

Let the dems try it,, What could they destroy in four years we couldn't fix in the next four?

Think about it,, without Jimmy Carter,, they would be no Ronnie reagan!

Lets remove religion out of our politics so we don't lean in any direction,,, or favor any insane cult who firmly believes voters are more comfortable with their heads lodged firmly up their own A$$!!!!!

Let's show the world we mean business and stop casting votes for the right,, while reminding the left it's a double edged sword,, and can easily be turned to the left as well...........

It will send a message,, the American people will not be conned anymore, by any party,,,,,,,,,,we can start ending the lefts reign in the next two years..

Changing is a process,, we can accomplish one head at a time...

That's status quo, Doc. How many times have we switched dem for repub & vice versa? How many times have we tried all the various combinations in the Senat/House/President? DDD, RRR, DDR, DRR, DRD, RDD, RDR, RRD?

I'm tired of status quo, but you keep repeating the experiment expecting a different outcome. How's that workin' for ya?

By God teach,, I think we makin real progress here in the forum,,

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:30 pm

qsducks;1035957 wrote: I know I'm a pain in the A$$, but Sarah was in my hometown and proclaimed to be a Phillies fan....Does Alaska have a baseball team? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Carpet bagger Sarah.:wah:
Wow......How shallow...... I live in New Mexico (that is a state not a city FYI) who has no major league baseball team (or any other major pro team for that matter as does Alaska) So by your pain in the A$$ feelings I (nor Sarah Palin) should not have a favorite because we ain't got a dog in the fight?

Sooooooooooooooooooooooo this capet bagger from New Mexico says.........

Kiss me ................ (being polite)

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:05 am

qsducks;1035957 wrote: I know I'm a pain in the A$$, but Sarah was in my hometown and proclaimed to be a Phillies fan....Does Alaska have a baseball team? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Carpet bagger Sarah.:wah:
:wah: At least you dropped this in the right thread.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:25 am

Don't worry there is an alternative palin.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:57 am

gmc;1036163 wrote: Don't worry there is an alternative palin.

I really don't think you can top the joke the republican campaign has become,,

I feel for 'em:-3

I wish we could have seen a Hillary/Palin debate,,:-5

OOOOOOOOOOOThe comedy:wah::wah: