Boy Shot While Trick-or-Treating

TheNewDG · Post by **TheNewDG** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:10 am

Now this is just out of control. What a scumbag!

Boy fatally shot trick-or-treating, police say - CNN.com

SlipStream · Post by **SlipStream** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:16 am

sign of our mad times:(

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:32 am

Senseless and very sad.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:59 am

I didnt quite get the why of it. Were they being shot at or were they casualties of something else that transpired ?

Can you imagine taking your child out for an hour to have some fun and they end up dead ?

Very difficult thing to fathom.

They must be in total shock and disbelief right now.

Another thing I dont get is why victims of tragedy speak to the media immediately following an incident, Id think they would want to hibernate yet it happens frequently.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:02 am

In most cases they are speaking through an appointed other family member or a spokes person for the family.

[QUOTE]Another thing I dont get is why victims of tragedy speak to the media immediately following an incident, Id think they would want to hibernate yet it happens frequently.[/QUOTE]

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:10 am

CARLA;1041686 wrote: In most cases they are speaking through an appointed other family member or a spokes person for the family.

Personally I wouldnt even do that. Grief should be private.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:15 am

I agree but in high profile cases that attrack the media sometimes the only way to get rid of the press is to have a family representative talk to them.

[QUOTE]Personally I wouldnt even do that. Grief should be private.[/QUOTE]

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:23 am

That is sad.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:45 am

Nomad;1041683 wrote: .....Another thing I dont get is why victims of tragedy speak to the media immediately following an incident, Id think they would want to hibernate yet it happens frequently.

The family was headed home from a city-sponsored event downtown when they decided to stop at a few homes, Sumter Police Chief Patty Patterson said. The father and his four children approached a home with a porch light on about 8:30 p.m. ET while their mother waited nearby in a vehicle.

As the family was at the door, they thought they heard fireworks. The 12-year-old boy, his father and brother were all hit by the gunfire. The boy died at a hospital, Coroner Verna Moore said. The other two children were not hurt.

The boy's father and brother were taken to a hospital with non-life-threatening injuries. Authorities have not released the identity of the family.

Patterson also would not release any more details about the shooting.

I think the family talked to the police. The police apparently talked to the media. And did not release the family name.

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:47 am

Why's anyone surprised?

Assume a country where this strange concept of "this is my land and I'll kill anyone who trespasses on it without my consent" is prevalent and gets people nodding sagely in bars and radiating approval. A country where people assume that if someone's on their property without permission they have a lawful right to kill them without warning. Someone does just that, it's simple ignorance of the law combined with a total lack of acceptance that anyone else is a real person.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:45 am

This is awful, so tragic. My heart goes out to this family.

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:09 pm

JAB;1041877 wrote: Because this isn't a case of trespassing. On a night where it's common etiquette to turn your porch light on to invite visitors, it is senseless and amazingly cruel on the part of the homeowner.

You'll have to excuse me, the laws of trespass are entirely different between the US and UK and I'm not at all sure what the US law says. Why is it not a case of trespass? Just because it's Halloween? Or because walking up someone's drive to the front door after dark isn't trespass on any day of the year, regardless of national holidays?

hoxtonchris · Post by **hoxtonchris** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:11 pm

its hard to criticise a person when they are clearly not in control of themselves,just execute them and our kids will be safer.on a much milder note,i recall as a child in londons east end i went xmas carol singin,and old git came to the door and wipped me with a leather belt!my dad made me take him to the block of flats but there were so many doors i couldnt remember which one,good job as i think my dad would have been hung for murder!

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:14 pm

JAB;1041888 wrote: The homeowners had a porch light on. When you do that on Halloween, it's an invitation to children to come to the door, knock, say "trick or treat" and get some candy.

I guess they really did get tricked after all.

Is it not usual for a homeowner to keep a porch light on as a security measure so that they can see trespassers?

I'd be better able to understand the background if someone answered my very simple question in my previous post.

hoxtonchris · Post by **hoxtonchris** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:16 pm

funny, as i see it in england we have a porch light on to deter burglers,the idea is that they will be seen forcing the door.yesterday on the news they showed a do not disturb card that we can hang on the door to deter the trick or treaters,i for one will put a few out next year!

hoxtonchris · Post by **hoxtonchris** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:16 pm

snap spot!

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:23 pm

JAB;1041893 wrote: Not always, no.

On one night out of the year where the practice of leaving your light on signifies an invitation for people to approach, then I think you'd be better served to leave the light off. As the homeowner obviously had a gun to defend himself, what's the purpose of leaving the light on? To get a better shot on the kid?

I still don't know whether walking up someone's drive to the front door after dark is trespass, that's my trouble. Do you know the answer? If it is trespass then obviously leaving the light on is to get a better shot.

If I knew about the trespass bit then the bit about it being Halloween might or might not modify matters.

hoxtonchris · Post by **hoxtonchris** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:33 pm

trespass or not i know of no laws which decree the death penalty for trespassing,defence buildngs aside of course

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:35 pm

Would the light on any other night carry the same message of implied invitation, or is this the "because it was Halloween" part of the discussion now?

The law in England is entirely different, just as I assumed. Here a person is only trespassing if they're on private land in a place which has no public right of way and they're asked to leave by the landowner or his agent and they refuse. It's that refusal which puts them in the position of trespassing.

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:40 pm

hoxtonchris;1041908 wrote: the death penalty for trespassing,defence buildings aside of course"the death penalty" is a phrase usually reserved for a judicial system executing a condemned criminal. It's perfectly legal in the USA - and in England if it comes to that, given suitable circumstances - to lawfully kill someone. We're discussing whether someone can be lawfully killed in the US if they approach a house at night on private land without invitation, if the householder believes there to be an immediate threat to his own life, regardless of whether that belief turns out to be justified. Whether it's legal or illegal it's not a "death penalty".

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:51 pm

spot;1041911 wrote: Would the light on any other night carry the same message of implied invitation, or is this the "because it was Halloween" part of the discussion now?

The law in England is entirely different, just as I assumed. Here a person is only trespassing if they're on private land in a place which has no public right of way and they're asked to leave by the landowner or his agent and they refuse. It's that refusal which puts them in the position of trespassing.

I can add to this that in the UK, it is not a trespass for any member of the public to enter private property by the main entrance and walk to the main door for the purpose of visiting the occupant, whether invited or not.

TheNewDG · Post by **TheNewDG** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:58 pm

Trick or Treating usually involves 4-13 year olds here.

TheNewDG · Post by **TheNewDG** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:07 pm

I dont think he should have been shot. It doesnt say anything about being asked to leave (in which case he should have). It just says he was shot. As well as his dad.

The guy should be charged with murder. Halloween is rampant here and the guy was 22 years old. I am sure he was aware of the holiday.

Maybe he was drunk. Who knows.

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:13 pm

TheNewDG;1042033 wrote: Maybe he was drunk. Who knows.Maybe he feared for his life? It's easy to feel scared when there are so many guns in private hands. Who knows.

TheNewDG · Post by **TheNewDG** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:14 pm

spot;1042046 wrote: Maybe he feared for his life? It's easy to feel scared when there are so many guns in private hands. Who knows.

You think the 12 year old boy had a gun?

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:20 pm

TheNewDG;1042050 wrote: You think the 12 year old boy had a gun?

There were FIVE people on his porch, most of whom were shot and one of whom died. Is it unlikely in your eyes that someone might be scared for their life in such circumstances, shoot the uninvited trespassers first and ask questions afterwards?

TheNewDG · Post by **TheNewDG** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:22 pm

spot;1042061 wrote: There were FIVE people on his porch, most of whom were shot and one of whom died. Is it unlikely in your eyes that someone might be scared for their life in such circumstances, shoot the uninvited trespassers first and ask questions afterwards?

No, I think he was drunk. Or mentally ill. Paranoid Schizophrenia. Why didnt he just not answer the door and call the cops like any normal person?

And if he was mentally ill, what the hell was he doing with a firearm?

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:23 pm

You are, I fear, speculating on too little information.

TheNewDG · Post by **TheNewDG** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:23 pm

And it was HALLOWEEEN for God's sake! Its a hugely popular nightime event over here.

TheNewDG · Post by **TheNewDG** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:24 pm

spot;1042068 wrote: You are, I fear, speculating on too little information.

And you arent?

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:28 pm

TheNewDG;1042071 wrote: And you arent?

I've not uttered a single word of speculation, I've merely enquired about the definition of trespass in the US which turns out to be "knowingly going onto someone else's land without consent". I observe that with so many guns in private hands he may well have felt in immediate fear for his life when five people trespassed on his property after dark. I certainly wouldn't find it unlikely if his legal team says just that.

TheNewDG · Post by **TheNewDG** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:30 pm

spot;1042075 wrote: I've not uttered a single word of speculation, I've merely enquired about the definition of trespass in the US which turns out to be "knowingly going onto someone else's land without consent". I observe that with so many guns in private hands he may well have felt in immediate fear for his life when five people trespassed on his property after dark. I certainly wouldn't find it unlikely if his legal team says just that.

Oh please.

That is speculation...

speculation:

speculation - Definitions from Dictionary.com

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:46 pm

not safe to be in your own home our out of it.

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:27 pm

Why does an ex-convict have an AK-47 assault rifle?

That is a military weapon, designed for killing human beings.

I certainly hope he didn't legally own it.

He should be locked up for life after such a hideous crime.

wildhorses · Post by **wildhorses** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:48 pm

spot;1041918 wrote: "the death penalty" is a phrase usually reserved for a judicial system executing a condemned criminal. It's perfectly legal in the USA - and in England if it comes to that, given suitable circumstances - to lawfully kill someone. We're discussing whether someone can be lawfully killed in the US if they approach a house at night on private land without invitation, if the householder believes there to be an immediate threat to his own life, regardless of whether that belief turns out to be justified. Whether it's legal or illegal it's not a "death penalty".

In USA it is not a tresspass to walk up to someone's front door. The only time this would be true is if there is a fence blocking the entrance or there is a no tresspass sign or some other sign to indicate that the owner does not want anyone to walk up to the front door. It is not legal to kill someone who simply walks up to your front door. There are extenuating circumstances...Maybe a person who has previously been a threat or something like that. But under normal circumstances it would not be legal. Now...if someone is in your backyard at your window...that is a tresspass. But I am pretty sure that you can only kill somone if they actually enter your house. I know this is true in urban and suburban areas. The laws for rural areas and land may be different.

TheNewDG · Post by **TheNewDG** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:21 pm

Update: Trick-or-treater, 12, shot to death, police say - CNN.com

Thug.

Post by **spot** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:43 pm

It's exactly as I suggested earlier.He told police he had been robbed and shot in the past year. "He wasn't going to be robbed again, and he wasn't going to be shot again," Patterson said Saturday at a news conference.

TheNewDG · Post by **TheNewDG** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:45 pm

And he is a thug ex con who shouldnt have had an AK-47.

Especially around a toddler.

Post by **spot** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:06 pm

He lives in a society where the private ownership of firearms is extensive. That caused him to fear for his life and led him to illegally own a weapon himself and use it. He might be about to go to jail for a while because of it but he'll comfort himself with the fact that he's still alive. The alternative was to be robbed and shot again if he'd left himself defenceless in an armed society.

Mia · Post by **Mia** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:55 pm

Nomad;1041683 wrote: I didnt quite get the why of it. Were they being shot at or were they casualties of something else that transpired ?

Can you imagine taking your child out for an hour to have some fun and they end up dead ?

Very difficult thing to fathom.

They must be in total shock and disbelief right now.

Another thing I dont get is why victims of tragedy speak to the media immediately following an incident, Id think they would want to hibernate yet it happens frequently.

I could never understand that either.My son is with the marines in Afghanistan at the mo,if anything happens to him and I get media attention I would tell them all to do one,Greif is a very personal thing.Shot for trick and treating. Whatever next,you only have to leave your lights out and not answer the door,