K.Snyder;1030471 wrote: You'll forgive me as I cannot understand why seeing as how I'm all for it...
Power and wealth always go together. In our society wealth get you power-in a supposedly communist society corruption always creeps in. Some always see themselves as more equal than others and take steps to reward their greater ability. Who gets to decide who does what? It's one of the reason communism never quite got a grip in western Europe. Revolutionary communism in particular has always been the creature of an intellectual elite who saw themselves leading the benighted masses to liberty-who do you think would they always saw as being best qualified to lead? That's why left wing movements tend to have as many schisms as christian sects do-arguing about whose vision is best for the people. Work together but do it my way.
An educated populace always see through to the basic flaw-you change one set of masters for another. In the case of the UK the fear of revolution always had enough concessions being made to keep the lid from blowing off. We still have elder politicians who speak in terms of class war-we trot them out now and then and feel quite nostalgic and cheer when they take the **** out of tony blair and new labour. The younger ones get elected now and then as a way of frightening the main parties.
Have any of you read the wealth of nations? As well as the father of capitalism you could make a good case that the seeds of socialism are in there as well. Certainly I think he must be birling in his grave at what those who claim to be his intellectual inheritors (brown and greenspan for two) are up to nowadays. As a fellow fifer I feel I can claim special insight:D
Wealth Redistribution
Wealth Redistribution
Accountable;1030486 wrote: Again ... you're leaving these questions to be decided by gov't instead of the individual? You'd scrap our entire Constitution then? The constitution means nothing to me when it does not benefit he majority of the ethical nor should it to anyone. This idea that the constitution is perfect needs to go. The United States Constitution was great upon it's inception and in relation to the political systems of the time in which it were formed but is far from perfect.
Accountable;1030486 wrote:
Huh?!? :-2
You are aware, of course, that a company can sell goods here (access purchasing power) without employing one single American, aren't you? Or are you now wanting to abolish import/export?
Well,..I'd first like to say that I consider myself human before I consider myself American and I wouldn't for a minute try and improve our social structure without taking in to consideration all of the angles...The fact remains that I want to see wealth redistribution of the world and not just the United States. No one should holler nationalism without having cared for the world first.
The idea is that wealth redistribution lowers the worth of currency dramatically to the point that all are wealthy as defined by the lack of demand.
What you see next is companies hell bent on producing overly luxurious items and taking their businesses to other countries where they are providing jobs for people who need them. "Foreigners" are people too you know.
Accountable;1030486 wrote:
Huh?!? :-2
You are aware, of course, that a company can sell goods here (access purchasing power) without employing one single American, aren't you? Or are you now wanting to abolish import/export?
Well,..I'd first like to say that I consider myself human before I consider myself American and I wouldn't for a minute try and improve our social structure without taking in to consideration all of the angles...The fact remains that I want to see wealth redistribution of the world and not just the United States. No one should holler nationalism without having cared for the world first.
The idea is that wealth redistribution lowers the worth of currency dramatically to the point that all are wealthy as defined by the lack of demand.
What you see next is companies hell bent on producing overly luxurious items and taking their businesses to other countries where they are providing jobs for people who need them. "Foreigners" are people too you know.
Wealth Redistribution
K.Snyder;1031309 wrote: The constitution means nothing to me when it does not benefit he majority of the ethical nor should it to anyone. This idea that the constitution is perfect needs to go. The United States Constitution was great upon it's inception and in relation to the political systems of the time in which it were formed but is far from perfect.
Really the constitution is as compatible with pure socialism as it is with pure capitalism. It allows progressive taxation for the defense and welfare of the nation. No limits or ranges on what the taxes are. It doesn't even say you can't have a 100% tax. The only thing is that those taxes must to be decided democratically.
Our current system isn't capitalism, but a hybrid of trickle-down capitalism and socialism, where the weight of risk falls to the taxpayers, and benefits are reaped by the people at the top. Really for the regular American, it's the worst of both worlds.
Really the constitution is as compatible with pure socialism as it is with pure capitalism. It allows progressive taxation for the defense and welfare of the nation. No limits or ranges on what the taxes are. It doesn't even say you can't have a 100% tax. The only thing is that those taxes must to be decided democratically.
Our current system isn't capitalism, but a hybrid of trickle-down capitalism and socialism, where the weight of risk falls to the taxpayers, and benefits are reaped by the people at the top. Really for the regular American, it's the worst of both worlds.
Wealth Redistribution
yaaarrrgg;1031373 wrote: Really the constitution is as compatible with pure socialism as it is with pure capitalism. It allows progressive taxation for the defense and welfare of the nation. No limits or ranges on what the taxes are. It doesn't even say you can't have a 100% tax. The only thing is that those taxes must to be decided democratically.
Our current system isn't capitalism, but a hybrid of trickle-down capitalism and socialism, where the weight of risk falls to the taxpayers, and benefits are reaped by the people at the top. Really for the regular American, it's the worst of both worlds.
Yes I agree the Constitution is a good thing given in how it were formed and the purposes it serves in today's society...My emphasis was more so that it needs to be added to...
"The only thing is that those taxes must to be decided democratically." Having a constitution that does not limit a free market is a capitalist one whereas a constitution that interferes with a free market exponentially is a communist one...I'm after the middle ground...
A more so economically motivated social structure influenced greatly by the philosophies of Libertarian socialism and Mutualism...For further reference you might want to read about Pierre-Joseph Proudhon...
Our current system isn't capitalism, but a hybrid of trickle-down capitalism and socialism, where the weight of risk falls to the taxpayers, and benefits are reaped by the people at the top. Really for the regular American, it's the worst of both worlds.
Yes I agree the Constitution is a good thing given in how it were formed and the purposes it serves in today's society...My emphasis was more so that it needs to be added to...
"The only thing is that those taxes must to be decided democratically." Having a constitution that does not limit a free market is a capitalist one whereas a constitution that interferes with a free market exponentially is a communist one...I'm after the middle ground...
A more so economically motivated social structure influenced greatly by the philosophies of Libertarian socialism and Mutualism...For further reference you might want to read about Pierre-Joseph Proudhon...
Wealth Redistribution
To Flopstock for her last few posts:
:yh_clap
Thank You, sistah! Amen!
:yh_clap
Thank You, sistah! Amen!
Wealth Redistribution
yaaarrrgg;1031373 wrote: Really the constitution is as compatible with pure socialism as it is with pure capitalism. It allows progressive taxation for the defense and welfare of the nation. No limits or ranges on what the taxes are. It doesn't even say you can't have a 100% tax. The only thing is that those taxes must to be decided democratically.
Our current system isn't capitalism, but a hybrid of trickle-down capitalism and socialism, where the weight of risk falls to the taxpayers, and benefits are reaped by the people at the top. Really for the regular American, it's the worst of both worlds.
No it's nothing remotely like socialism. What you have is corporatism
http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/corporatism.htm
Our current system isn't capitalism, but a hybrid of trickle-down capitalism and socialism, where the weight of risk falls to the taxpayers, and benefits are reaped by the people at the top. Really for the regular American, it's the worst of both worlds.
No it's nothing remotely like socialism. What you have is corporatism
http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/corporatism.htm
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QUINNSCOMMENTARY
- Posts: 901
- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 4:56 pm
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Scrat;1025236 wrote: That's a poor analogy.
I don't want to live in a society filled with oligarchs and robber barons with people begging on the streets, living in "Bushvilles" and essentially eeking by. That's not what my father took a bullet in the ass for 64 years ago, that's not the reason I did my time in the service. That's not my idea of the American dream.
I make pretty good money as does my wife. I would be more than willing to pay extra taxes to help my fellow Americans, it just so happens there's a lot of my "betters" seem to be so corrupt it's sickening.
Redistributing wealth is a good thing if its done correctly, and by redistribution I don't mean taking it away and giving it to a slacker, I mean put it work in a meaningful useful concrete manner. Put it into the infrastructure and industry of America not the freaking stock market.
You don't have to wait to pay higher taxes, just write a check to whomever you want.
The problem with these generalizations is that they make the few appear to be the norm. Nobody is taking from others in America, this is not 18th century France, or Russia or some South American country. Nobody is holding anyone down from their piece of the pie as many people prove every day. A high paid executive is not taking a thing from the low paid clerk.
We seem to be obsessed with bashing success when we should be bashing those who are content with mediocrity. I worry more about the 70% of students who don't graduate high school in Newark, NJ than I do the Wall Street exec making $20 million a year.
The stock market funds pensions, 401(k) plans, dividends provide income to millions of senior citizens.
I don't want to live in a society filled with oligarchs and robber barons with people begging on the streets, living in "Bushvilles" and essentially eeking by. That's not what my father took a bullet in the ass for 64 years ago, that's not the reason I did my time in the service. That's not my idea of the American dream.
I make pretty good money as does my wife. I would be more than willing to pay extra taxes to help my fellow Americans, it just so happens there's a lot of my "betters" seem to be so corrupt it's sickening.
Redistributing wealth is a good thing if its done correctly, and by redistribution I don't mean taking it away and giving it to a slacker, I mean put it work in a meaningful useful concrete manner. Put it into the infrastructure and industry of America not the freaking stock market.
You don't have to wait to pay higher taxes, just write a check to whomever you want.
The problem with these generalizations is that they make the few appear to be the norm. Nobody is taking from others in America, this is not 18th century France, or Russia or some South American country. Nobody is holding anyone down from their piece of the pie as many people prove every day. A high paid executive is not taking a thing from the low paid clerk.
We seem to be obsessed with bashing success when we should be bashing those who are content with mediocrity. I worry more about the 70% of students who don't graduate high school in Newark, NJ than I do the Wall Street exec making $20 million a year.
The stock market funds pensions, 401(k) plans, dividends provide income to millions of senior citizens.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody is not thinking" Gen. George Patton
Quinnscommentary
Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
Quinnscommentary Blog
"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody is not thinking" Gen. George Patton
Quinnscommentary
Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
Quinnscommentary Blog
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QUINNSCOMMENTARY
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- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 4:56 pm
Wealth Redistribution
yaaarrrgg;1031373 wrote: Really the constitution is as compatible with pure socialism as it is with pure capitalism. It allows progressive taxation for the defense and welfare of the nation. No limits or ranges on what the taxes are. It doesn't even say you can't have a 100% tax. The only thing is that those taxes must to be decided democratically.
Our current system isn't capitalism, but a hybrid of trickle-down capitalism and socialism, where the weight of risk falls to the taxpayers, and benefits are reaped by the people at the top. Really for the regular American, it's the worst of both worlds.
It also contemplates a limited federal government with the rest delegated to the states. So much for that.
Our current system isn't capitalism, but a hybrid of trickle-down capitalism and socialism, where the weight of risk falls to the taxpayers, and benefits are reaped by the people at the top. Really for the regular American, it's the worst of both worlds.
It also contemplates a limited federal government with the rest delegated to the states. So much for that.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody is not thinking" Gen. George Patton
Quinnscommentary
Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
Quinnscommentary Blog
"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody is not thinking" Gen. George Patton
Quinnscommentary
Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
Quinnscommentary Blog
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
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QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1042144 wrote: It also contemplates a limited federal government with the rest delegated to the states. So much for that.
That's the most important part of the Constitution that the new nationalists ignore. Centralizing control in Washington guarantees waste and inadequate support. Services need to be controlled as close to the point of service as possible. That way maybe somebody can make the decision to scrap one when it's no longer useful.
That's the most important part of the Constitution that the new nationalists ignore. Centralizing control in Washington guarantees waste and inadequate support. Services need to be controlled as close to the point of service as possible. That way maybe somebody can make the decision to scrap one when it's no longer useful.
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QUINNSCOMMENTARY
- Posts: 901
- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 4:56 pm
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That high paid executive is depriving the clerk of one very important thing. Opportunity.
Now, I know that you can't possibly believe that is true. That clerk, and I was one once a long time ago, has every opportunity to change his or her life, nobody is forcing them to work at one place or another or not to take risk and chances or to improve themselves.
You know in 1961 I was a mail clerk, and when I was laid off, I became a clerk typist in the same company and 45 years later I became a Vice President. And guess what, there is a man age 73 who was a mail clerk in that same mail room and he is still there to this day. I guess he didn't have the same opportunity I did.
Now, I know that you can't possibly believe that is true. That clerk, and I was one once a long time ago, has every opportunity to change his or her life, nobody is forcing them to work at one place or another or not to take risk and chances or to improve themselves.
You know in 1961 I was a mail clerk, and when I was laid off, I became a clerk typist in the same company and 45 years later I became a Vice President. And guess what, there is a man age 73 who was a mail clerk in that same mail room and he is still there to this day. I guess he didn't have the same opportunity I did.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody is not thinking" Gen. George Patton
Quinnscommentary
Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
Quinnscommentary Blog
"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody is not thinking" Gen. George Patton
Quinnscommentary
Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
Quinnscommentary Blog
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Wealth Redistribution
Scrat;1042801 wrote: You know what? I guess you could call me one of those mediocre people. I ride my bike to work most days do my job, pick up the paycheck spend what I have too or want too then go home go to sleep and repeat the process. I couldn't really care less about getting richer or "bettering my station in life".
I couldn't care less about a new truck, a Harley or 2 in the 3 car garage.
You know why? I'm happy where I'm at. I can take care of myself and not be a burden on others, I can help others if I choose too. I have it good enough, the wife is happy, we're just fine.
What more do I need? Millions? Billions?
Just what is success? Is my boss a success, he has owned his own business for decades and basically inherited it from his father and his 2 sons are set to inherit it from him.
Is this an example of success? Is this what it means to struggle and better yourself? I'll tell you right now, the 2 sons set to take over the company never worked for anything in their lives, they never paid for their educations, their first homes, their first cars. Mommy and daddy paid for it.
The facts above make this statement a bloody stinking lie.
That high paid executive is depriving the clerk of one very important thing. Opportunity.
My boss's sons were born into wealth, the average American is not. Most of their classmates at the college stayed in the dorms, they had their own homes to stay in. Most students at their college left that college with huge amounts of debt to shoulder. They were nowhere near being in the red when they walked out.
Really Quinn, I'd give you and ACs preaching about this subject a lot more attention if all people were born equal and left the starting gate on equal terms.
We live in a rigged system and I do believe it is getting worse.Life ain't fair, and we can't make it fair. What would you suggest? Give each child a Starter Pack and not allow parents to contribute to their child's success?
Your boss set his priorities and lives his life as he sees fit within the rules of society. So do you. If you're happy where you're at, why complain that he's not happy to be where you're at and worked to find his own, different happiness? Since you're content where you are, why would you deserve part of your boss' (and your boss' sons') money?
I couldn't care less about a new truck, a Harley or 2 in the 3 car garage.
You know why? I'm happy where I'm at. I can take care of myself and not be a burden on others, I can help others if I choose too. I have it good enough, the wife is happy, we're just fine.
What more do I need? Millions? Billions?
Just what is success? Is my boss a success, he has owned his own business for decades and basically inherited it from his father and his 2 sons are set to inherit it from him.
Is this an example of success? Is this what it means to struggle and better yourself? I'll tell you right now, the 2 sons set to take over the company never worked for anything in their lives, they never paid for their educations, their first homes, their first cars. Mommy and daddy paid for it.
The facts above make this statement a bloody stinking lie.
That high paid executive is depriving the clerk of one very important thing. Opportunity.
My boss's sons were born into wealth, the average American is not. Most of their classmates at the college stayed in the dorms, they had their own homes to stay in. Most students at their college left that college with huge amounts of debt to shoulder. They were nowhere near being in the red when they walked out.
Really Quinn, I'd give you and ACs preaching about this subject a lot more attention if all people were born equal and left the starting gate on equal terms.
We live in a rigged system and I do believe it is getting worse.Life ain't fair, and we can't make it fair. What would you suggest? Give each child a Starter Pack and not allow parents to contribute to their child's success?
Your boss set his priorities and lives his life as he sees fit within the rules of society. So do you. If you're happy where you're at, why complain that he's not happy to be where you're at and worked to find his own, different happiness? Since you're content where you are, why would you deserve part of your boss' (and your boss' sons') money?
Wealth Redistribution
Scrat;1042801 wrote: You know what? I guess you could call me one of those mediocre people. I ride my bike to work most days do my job, pick up the paycheck spend what I have too or want too then go home go to sleep and repeat the process. I couldn't really care less about getting richer or "bettering my station in life".
I couldn't care less about a new truck, a Harley or 2 in the 3 car garage.
You know why? I'm happy where I'm at. I can take care of myself and not be a burden on others, I can help others if I choose too. I have it good enough, the wife is happy, we're just fine.
What more do I need? Millions? Billions?
Just what is success? Is my boss a success, he has owned his own business for decades and basically inherited it from his father and his 2 sons are set to inherit it from him.
Is this an example of success? Is this what it means to struggle and better yourself? I'll tell you right now, the 2 sons set to take over the company never worked for anything in their lives, they never paid for their educations, their first homes, their first cars. Mommy and daddy paid for it.
The facts above make this statement a bloody stinking lie.
That high paid executive is depriving the clerk of one very important thing. Opportunity.
My boss's sons were born into wealth, the average American is not. Most of their classmates at the college stayed in the dorms, they had their own homes to stay in. Most students at their college left that college with huge amounts of debt to shoulder. They were nowhere near being in the red when they walked out.
Really Quinn, I'd give you and ACs preaching about this subject a lot more attention if all people were born equal and left the starting gate on equal terms.
We live in a rigged system and I do believe it is getting worse.
What a load of garbage, go live in Cuba or something.
My family did not have money growing up, I have been working since I was 13 years old. I have worked hard for everything I have and because of that I can now give my kids a good life with good opportunity. Are you saying that they should not have that opportunity because it is ‘not fair’ for those who don’t have it?
‘Sorry kids, I am not giving you anything, because that wouldn’t be fair to the others’
How do you know about this guys sons, maybe they will do a great job taking over the business that their father build taking risks and by working hard.
'Depriving the clerk of opportunity', that is an excuse of someone who has never pushed them self or tried for better. Maybe the clerk is happy being a clerk, good for him/her, if not, then do something about it.
I can’t people to say in jobs they don’t like and complaint all their lives. The freedom is in choice. If you don’t like your job, leave it and get something else.
If want to advance your career and nothing is happening in your current job, look for a new job at a hirer level.
Move from clerk to supervisor to manager to senior manager to director. It is easy, you just need to work your ass off, take chances and not be afraid of making decisions, or changing jobs as required.
Or just sit back and complain about all the other people who have drive and ambition.
I couldn't care less about a new truck, a Harley or 2 in the 3 car garage.
You know why? I'm happy where I'm at. I can take care of myself and not be a burden on others, I can help others if I choose too. I have it good enough, the wife is happy, we're just fine.
What more do I need? Millions? Billions?
Just what is success? Is my boss a success, he has owned his own business for decades and basically inherited it from his father and his 2 sons are set to inherit it from him.
Is this an example of success? Is this what it means to struggle and better yourself? I'll tell you right now, the 2 sons set to take over the company never worked for anything in their lives, they never paid for their educations, their first homes, their first cars. Mommy and daddy paid for it.
The facts above make this statement a bloody stinking lie.
That high paid executive is depriving the clerk of one very important thing. Opportunity.
My boss's sons were born into wealth, the average American is not. Most of their classmates at the college stayed in the dorms, they had their own homes to stay in. Most students at their college left that college with huge amounts of debt to shoulder. They were nowhere near being in the red when they walked out.
Really Quinn, I'd give you and ACs preaching about this subject a lot more attention if all people were born equal and left the starting gate on equal terms.
We live in a rigged system and I do believe it is getting worse.
What a load of garbage, go live in Cuba or something.
My family did not have money growing up, I have been working since I was 13 years old. I have worked hard for everything I have and because of that I can now give my kids a good life with good opportunity. Are you saying that they should not have that opportunity because it is ‘not fair’ for those who don’t have it?
‘Sorry kids, I am not giving you anything, because that wouldn’t be fair to the others’
How do you know about this guys sons, maybe they will do a great job taking over the business that their father build taking risks and by working hard.
'Depriving the clerk of opportunity', that is an excuse of someone who has never pushed them self or tried for better. Maybe the clerk is happy being a clerk, good for him/her, if not, then do something about it.
I can’t people to say in jobs they don’t like and complaint all their lives. The freedom is in choice. If you don’t like your job, leave it and get something else.
If want to advance your career and nothing is happening in your current job, look for a new job at a hirer level.
Move from clerk to supervisor to manager to senior manager to director. It is easy, you just need to work your ass off, take chances and not be afraid of making decisions, or changing jobs as required.
Or just sit back and complain about all the other people who have drive and ambition.
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wildhorses
- Posts: 648
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:08 pm
Wealth Redistribution
QUINNSCOMMENTARY;1042872 wrote: Now, I know that you can't possibly believe that is true. That clerk, and I was one once a long time ago, has every opportunity to change his or her life, nobody is forcing them to work at one place or another or not to take risk and chances or to improve themselves.
You know in 1961 I was a mail clerk, and when I was laid off, I became a clerk typist in the same company and 45 years later I became a Vice President. And guess what, there is a man age 73 who was a mail clerk in that same mail room and he is still there to this day. I guess he didn't have the same opportunity I did.
Don't you think everyone knows you are making up half these stories? About how you started at the bottom and were the only one who made it to the top? How you are so great and everyone else is so lazy and unambitious? No one who started as a mail clerk would have your attitude. In fact not too many people have your attitude no matter what level they started at.
You know in 1961 I was a mail clerk, and when I was laid off, I became a clerk typist in the same company and 45 years later I became a Vice President. And guess what, there is a man age 73 who was a mail clerk in that same mail room and he is still there to this day. I guess he didn't have the same opportunity I did.
Don't you think everyone knows you are making up half these stories? About how you started at the bottom and were the only one who made it to the top? How you are so great and everyone else is so lazy and unambitious? No one who started as a mail clerk would have your attitude. In fact not too many people have your attitude no matter what level they started at.
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Kathy Ellen
- Posts: 10569
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ffs....who wrote "ks the communist" in the tag section 
so childish..
so childish..-
wildhorses
- Posts: 648
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:08 pm
Wealth Redistribution
Kathy Ellen;1043507 wrote: ffs....who wrote "ks the communist" in the tag section so childish..
Who is KS?
so childish..Who is KS?
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Primaldarwin
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:33 pm
Wealth Redistribution
Well I registered just to post here.
I am really saddened by the level of ignorance about "spreading the wealth". The very idea that you can buy votes by stealing from other citizens is appalling. The constitution was written to prevent just this type of thing. Non uniform taxation, and use of the tax code to garner votes can literally destroy a democracy.
You do not have to go far to find a quote or two from the founding fathers regarding this. Do you honestly think this trend would not continue? Say we legalize robbery of our fellow citizens via the tax code, what next? Do you think that people will not continually vote themselves bigger and bigger checks every year?
What happens when the "rich" no longer can bear it, and they are gone. Where will we get our checks from then? What about the destruction of the very understanding that you must work for what you have? We will replace this with a "I am entitled attitude" and people will be looking for handouts instead of working. But since when are we entitled to other people's sweat and tears in the form of money?
We talk about the poor in the country as if they are simply unlucky. Many choose their fates. They don't work, or they are irresponsible, and don't plan or care at all. Why do they deserve to take from people who work and try hard every day? And what message do we send to these people when we give them "crumbs". We condemn them to a lifetime of jaded misery as they think their only chance of success is by taking money from others.
Liberals are obsessed with "fairness". But who decides what is fair? Is it fair for someone to not work and take from those that do? Or can we really guarantee everyone will be equally wealthy when we are all capable of different levels of success?
And let's talk about what Liberals have done to the poor and the black community and what they seek to do to the hispanic community. Racism is like oxygen to liberals. If there is no racism they must inject it , so that they can divide and manipulate the population for votes. Liberals also revel in class envy, they constantly play poor against rich, in order to gain votes. They tell the black community that the US is racist and that this is why it is impossible for a african america to get ahead.
Oh yes according to liberals everyone is racist except liberals. Of course liberals are willing to help the black community out of the goodness of their hearts, by giving them checks from the government (It's amazing how generous liberals are with other peoples money). All they have to do is vote democratic every election. And then the democrats have them, they have beaten the black community down, victimized them, and now have them on handouts. By doing this, Liberals have robbed the black community of its dignity and the American Dream.
I have lost all respect for liberals for this reason alone. What they have done to our country and our fellow citizens is unforgivable. At some point maybe we can all just be Americans, and the liberals can quit victimizing African Americans or the poor for political power. Maybe one day we can all be Americans, but that will be the day the Liberal party dies in America.
I am really saddened by the level of ignorance about "spreading the wealth". The very idea that you can buy votes by stealing from other citizens is appalling. The constitution was written to prevent just this type of thing. Non uniform taxation, and use of the tax code to garner votes can literally destroy a democracy.
You do not have to go far to find a quote or two from the founding fathers regarding this. Do you honestly think this trend would not continue? Say we legalize robbery of our fellow citizens via the tax code, what next? Do you think that people will not continually vote themselves bigger and bigger checks every year?
What happens when the "rich" no longer can bear it, and they are gone. Where will we get our checks from then? What about the destruction of the very understanding that you must work for what you have? We will replace this with a "I am entitled attitude" and people will be looking for handouts instead of working. But since when are we entitled to other people's sweat and tears in the form of money?
We talk about the poor in the country as if they are simply unlucky. Many choose their fates. They don't work, or they are irresponsible, and don't plan or care at all. Why do they deserve to take from people who work and try hard every day? And what message do we send to these people when we give them "crumbs". We condemn them to a lifetime of jaded misery as they think their only chance of success is by taking money from others.
Liberals are obsessed with "fairness". But who decides what is fair? Is it fair for someone to not work and take from those that do? Or can we really guarantee everyone will be equally wealthy when we are all capable of different levels of success?
And let's talk about what Liberals have done to the poor and the black community and what they seek to do to the hispanic community. Racism is like oxygen to liberals. If there is no racism they must inject it , so that they can divide and manipulate the population for votes. Liberals also revel in class envy, they constantly play poor against rich, in order to gain votes. They tell the black community that the US is racist and that this is why it is impossible for a african america to get ahead.
Oh yes according to liberals everyone is racist except liberals. Of course liberals are willing to help the black community out of the goodness of their hearts, by giving them checks from the government (It's amazing how generous liberals are with other peoples money). All they have to do is vote democratic every election. And then the democrats have them, they have beaten the black community down, victimized them, and now have them on handouts. By doing this, Liberals have robbed the black community of its dignity and the American Dream.
I have lost all respect for liberals for this reason alone. What they have done to our country and our fellow citizens is unforgivable. At some point maybe we can all just be Americans, and the liberals can quit victimizing African Americans or the poor for political power. Maybe one day we can all be Americans, but that will be the day the Liberal party dies in America.
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wildhorses
- Posts: 648
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:08 pm
Wealth Redistribution
Primaldarwin;1043546 wrote: Well I registered just to post here.
I am really saddened by the level of ignorance about "spreading the wealth". The very idea that you can buy votes by stealing from other citizens is appalling. The constitution was written to prevent just this type of thing. Non uniform taxation, and use of the tax code to garner votes can literally destroy a democracy.
You do not have to go far to find a quote or two from the founding fathers regarding this. Do you honestly think this trend would not continue? Say we legalize robbery of our fellow citizens via the tax code, what next? Do you think that people will not continually vote themselves bigger and bigger checks every year?
What happens when the "rich" no longer can bear it, and they are gone. Where will we get our checks from then? What about the destruction of the very understanding that you must work for what you have? We will replace this with a "I am entitled attitude" and people will be looking for handouts instead of working. But since when are we entitled to other people's sweat and tears in the form of money?
We talk about the poor in the country as if they are simply unlucky. Many choose their fates. They don't work, or they are irresponsible, and don't plan or care at all. Why do they deserve to take from people who work and try hard every day? And what message do we send to these people when we give them "crumbs". We condemn them to a lifetime of jaded misery as they think their only chance of success is by taking money from others.
Liberals are obsessed with "fairness". But who decides what is fair? Is it fair for someone to not work and take from those that do? Or can we really guarantee everyone will be equally wealthy when we are all capable of different levels of success?
And let's talk about what Liberals have done to the poor and the black community and what they seek to do to the hispanic community. Racism is like oxygen to liberals. If there is no racism they must inject it , so that they can divide and manipulate the population for votes. Liberals also revel in class envy, they constantly play poor against rich, in order to gain votes. They tell the black community that the US is racist and that this is why it is impossible for a african america to get ahead.
Oh yes according to liberals everyone is racist except liberals. Of course liberals are willing to help the black community out of the goodness of their hearts, by giving them checks from the government (It's amazing how generous liberals are with other peoples money). All they have to do is vote democratic every election. And then the democrats have them, they have beaten the black community down, victimized them, and now have them on handouts. By doing this, Liberals have robbed the black community of its dignity and the American Dream.
I have lost all respect for liberals for this reason alone. What they have done to our country and our fellow citizens is unforgivable. At some point maybe we can all just be Americans, and the liberals can quit victimizing African Americans or the poor for political power. Maybe one day we can all be Americans, but that will be the day the Liberal party dies in America.
LOL@"what happens when the rich can no longer bear it". Most of the jobs in this country are created by small businesses. They are not rich.
So are you saying liberals are un-american? You think that liberals should not be allowed in the country....is that it? That would be kind of unbalanced, dont you think? It is also a very anti american to not let everyone have their voice.
Poor people choose their fates? They wake up one morning and say to themselves that they would rather be poor than to have financial stability?
I am really saddened by the level of ignorance about "spreading the wealth". The very idea that you can buy votes by stealing from other citizens is appalling. The constitution was written to prevent just this type of thing. Non uniform taxation, and use of the tax code to garner votes can literally destroy a democracy.
You do not have to go far to find a quote or two from the founding fathers regarding this. Do you honestly think this trend would not continue? Say we legalize robbery of our fellow citizens via the tax code, what next? Do you think that people will not continually vote themselves bigger and bigger checks every year?
What happens when the "rich" no longer can bear it, and they are gone. Where will we get our checks from then? What about the destruction of the very understanding that you must work for what you have? We will replace this with a "I am entitled attitude" and people will be looking for handouts instead of working. But since when are we entitled to other people's sweat and tears in the form of money?
We talk about the poor in the country as if they are simply unlucky. Many choose their fates. They don't work, or they are irresponsible, and don't plan or care at all. Why do they deserve to take from people who work and try hard every day? And what message do we send to these people when we give them "crumbs". We condemn them to a lifetime of jaded misery as they think their only chance of success is by taking money from others.
Liberals are obsessed with "fairness". But who decides what is fair? Is it fair for someone to not work and take from those that do? Or can we really guarantee everyone will be equally wealthy when we are all capable of different levels of success?
And let's talk about what Liberals have done to the poor and the black community and what they seek to do to the hispanic community. Racism is like oxygen to liberals. If there is no racism they must inject it , so that they can divide and manipulate the population for votes. Liberals also revel in class envy, they constantly play poor against rich, in order to gain votes. They tell the black community that the US is racist and that this is why it is impossible for a african america to get ahead.
Oh yes according to liberals everyone is racist except liberals. Of course liberals are willing to help the black community out of the goodness of their hearts, by giving them checks from the government (It's amazing how generous liberals are with other peoples money). All they have to do is vote democratic every election. And then the democrats have them, they have beaten the black community down, victimized them, and now have them on handouts. By doing this, Liberals have robbed the black community of its dignity and the American Dream.
I have lost all respect for liberals for this reason alone. What they have done to our country and our fellow citizens is unforgivable. At some point maybe we can all just be Americans, and the liberals can quit victimizing African Americans or the poor for political power. Maybe one day we can all be Americans, but that will be the day the Liberal party dies in America.
LOL@"what happens when the rich can no longer bear it". Most of the jobs in this country are created by small businesses. They are not rich.
So are you saying liberals are un-american? You think that liberals should not be allowed in the country....is that it? That would be kind of unbalanced, dont you think? It is also a very anti american to not let everyone have their voice.
Poor people choose their fates? They wake up one morning and say to themselves that they would rather be poor than to have financial stability?
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Wealth Redistribution
Primaldarwin;1043546 wrote: We talk about the poor in the country as if they are simply unlucky. Many choose their fates. They don't work, or they are irresponsible, and don't plan or care at all. Why do they deserve to take from people who work and try hard every day? And what message do we send to these people when we give them "crumbs". We condemn them to a lifetime of jaded misery as they think their only chance of success is by taking money from others.
wildhorses;1043550 wrote: Poor people choose their fates? They wake up one morning and say to themselves that they would rather be poor than to have financial stability?I was going to respond to this, but I see that Primaldarwin explained him/herself quite well.
Welcome to Forumgarden, PD! :-6
wildhorses;1043550 wrote: Poor people choose their fates? They wake up one morning and say to themselves that they would rather be poor than to have financial stability?I was going to respond to this, but I see that Primaldarwin explained him/herself quite well.
Welcome to Forumgarden, PD! :-6
Wealth Redistribution
Poor people choose their fates? They wake up one morning and say to themselves that they would rather be poor than to have financial stability?
These debates often go in circle because of one fundamental reason, people lump everything into one group and apply a reason or argument.
‘The poor’ does not define an individual, just a situation, there are many different reasons for people being ‘poor’, many of which cannot be helped, and I certainly believe people who are in circumstances beyond their control need to be supported, as a civilization we are required to do so.
However, there are also a group of ‘poor’ who are just caught in a cycle of poverty, which can be broken if an individual wanted to. This is why the full employment is considered to be reached when unemployment reaches 3%, because for a number of reasons it is considered that the 3% and below are ‘unemployable’.
The way to break the cycle of poverty is by providing work, work is provided by businesses, governments need to provide infrastructure and competitive environments to encourage business to establish themselves and grow and hopefully create more employment. Governments then collect taxes from the workers and the profits of the business which should go into further improving infrastructure.
People don’t choose their fate, but it is their decision what to do with their fate.
These debates often go in circle because of one fundamental reason, people lump everything into one group and apply a reason or argument.
‘The poor’ does not define an individual, just a situation, there are many different reasons for people being ‘poor’, many of which cannot be helped, and I certainly believe people who are in circumstances beyond their control need to be supported, as a civilization we are required to do so.
However, there are also a group of ‘poor’ who are just caught in a cycle of poverty, which can be broken if an individual wanted to. This is why the full employment is considered to be reached when unemployment reaches 3%, because for a number of reasons it is considered that the 3% and below are ‘unemployable’.
The way to break the cycle of poverty is by providing work, work is provided by businesses, governments need to provide infrastructure and competitive environments to encourage business to establish themselves and grow and hopefully create more employment. Governments then collect taxes from the workers and the profits of the business which should go into further improving infrastructure.
People don’t choose their fate, but it is their decision what to do with their fate.